Quote from: Zirunel;960691Very good point. It really works!

Actually, I believe there may even be a few Greek (or Greek-inspired) names in Tsolyani. Nothing as well known as the Mayan Sacbe/Sakbe thing, which everyone picks up on, but I believe they are there.

Pretty sure "Sarku" was inspired by the  "sarco-" element in sarcophagus. Sark- doesn't really mean corpse, it means flesh, but we all know it best as part of "sarcophagus." Sarku, sarcophagus, I don't think that's a coincidence

And there is an Aspect of Karakan named Orkutai, "The City-Destroyer." Bet he got the idea from Demetrius I "Poliorketes," "The Besieger of Cities." Demetrius was a Successor king of Macedon that the Professor would have been quite familiar with.

There may be more "western-inspired" words and names in Tsolyani if you go looking for them.

I think that these are more of Phil's "in jokes" that Chirine has talked about in the past. Another example is Znaye which is probably derived from the Slavic root word for  "know" or "knowledge," and if memory serves is a secret tongue of one of the pariah gods.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;960713I think that these are more of Phil's "in jokes" that Chirine has talked about in the past. Another example is Znaye which is probably derived from the Slavic root word for  "know" or "knowledge," and if memory serves is a secret tongue of one of the pariah gods.

You may well be right. Questions like this, around the sausage-making of world-building are exactly the kind of questions that might have answers in the professors archives. It would be great to reconstruct his own construction of this world.

My guess (totally uninformed and quite possibly wrong) is that he came up with Sarku quite early. Maybe at a time when no one was listening, in which case early names like this maybe aren't "jokes," just real-world inspiration for world-building. Sakbe/Sacbe may be similar. Also Kheshchal.

Orkutai/Orketes, on the other hand, I suspect he came up with later, maybe when he already had an audience, including wargamers with the same historical interests as his own. I could easily believe Orkutai was an "in-joke."

The Zna'ye/znanje thing is something I remember, and maybe something different. That wasn't something that clearly came from the Professor, it was an idea that Alex Stojanavic proposed. As I recall, the Professor didn't pooh-pooh it, but he brushed it aside and moved on. That doesn't really tell you anything, and Alex Stojanavic's ideas can be very cool .

But my (again uninformed) guess is that the Professor's background in Slavic languages was extremely limited (or zero), so while the idea is cool and worth pursuing for your own Tekumel, I don't think it was ever part of the Professor's actual world-building process.

Quote from: Hrugga;960671True. I am about halfway into the first Lord Meren novel. Which you suggested as "flavor" for our games in the part I thread. It is really well researched(right down to the throwing sticks). Very helpful source for interactions between Nobles, Commoners and ancient life in general. Plus an entertaining story to boot.

H:0)

And there you are - following in Phil's footsteps. He taught himself Ancient Egyptian when he was eight, and it stayed with him all his long life. His library on the subject was simply university-class.

Follow this up with the 'Barsoom' series, and I think you'll be very pleasantly pleased.

I can only hope that I'm half that good, with my little effort...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960754And there you are - following in Phil's footsteps. He taught himself Ancient Egyptian when he was eight, and it stayed with him all his long life. His library on the subject was simply university-class.

Follow this up with the 'Barsoom' series, and I think you'll be very pleasantly pleased.

I can only hope that I'm half that good, with my little effort...

I've been able to aquire many of the books you have suggested at very reasonable prices(in most cases a few dollars). So with the first two Lensman, first Barsoom, Lord of Light, and halfway through the first Meren novel(and others waiting in the wings), the spark has ignited the flame. To my delight and the cries of my wife as she looks upon the piles of yellowed tomes that are growing around our home...Thank you for the guidance!!! Long may your Light shine brightly!!!

Questions to follow...

H;0)

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960664Yeah, he's got another one, but the TF pulled his license and won't let him do anything.

Oh gods.
*Heart sinks*

Quote from: Zirunel;960691Very good point. It really works!

Actually, I believe there may even be a few Greek (or Greek-inspired) names in Tsolyani. Nothing as well known as the Mayan Sacbe/Sakbe thing, which everyone picks up on, but I believe they are there.

Pretty sure "Sarku" was inspired by the  "sarco-" element in sarcophagus. Sark- doesn't really mean corpse, it means flesh, but we all know it best as part of "sarcophagus." Sarku, sarcophagus, I don't think that's a coincidence

And there is an Aspect of Karakan named Orkutai, "The City-Destroyer." Bet he got the idea from Demetrius I "Poliorketes," "The Besieger of Cities." Demetrius was a Successor king of Macedon that the Professor would have been quite familiar with.

There may be more "western-inspired" words and names in Tsolyani if you go looking for them.

Wasn't familiar with all these. Very interesting stuff.
Typical Barkerisms really, all of which point to ways to handle the world of Tekumel and make it your own.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960664Yeah, he's got another one, but the TF pulled his license and won't let him do anything.

Do I want to know why in Karakan's hell would they do that?
No, I don't want to, frankly, I can guess it's not the correct interpretation:).

I've been thinking lately that the way Tekumel is being preserved, we'd finally have to make our own settings, using the same approach as MAR Barker and even borrowing stuff we can, because Too Much Stability ain't good for human activity, not anymore than Too Much Change;).

Quote from: AsenRG;960833Do I want to know why in Karakan's hell would they do that?
No, I don't want to, frankly, I can guess it's not the correct interpretation:).

I've been thinking lately that the way Tekumel is being preserved, we'd finally have to make our own settings, using the same approach as MAR Barker and even borrowing stuff we can, because Too Much Stability ain't good for human activity, not anymore than Too Much Change;).

I'd like to know. It would be nice to see the last Seal come out, but it would also be nice to see the earlier issues back in print. The reason for pulling the license may give us a hint about how likely it is that that will ever happen.

It won't happen, or at least not for a long time.  The Tekumel Foundation is dedicated primarily to being the Tekumel Foundation, as near as I can tell.

"Forms follow function, Haldeman, and sometimes obliterate it completely.  This is the iron law of bureaucracy."

First time poster, 619 page lurker. This thread has been instrumental in rekindling my love of Tekumel, which started when EPT first came out and was forever cemented when I saw the Temple of Vimuhla at an early GenCon (either last at the Playboy Club or first at UW Parkside).

Keep it up, folks. I'm along for the entire ride.

Blaise

Quote from: bconsidine;960866First time poster, 619 page lurker. This thread has been instrumental in rekindling my love of Tekumel, which started when EPT first came out and was forever cemented when I saw the Temple of Vimuhla at an early GenCon (either last at the Playboy Club or first at UW Parkside).

Keep it up, folks. I'm along for the entire ride.

Blaise

Cool. I envy you that, I've never seen the temple in the flesh, just pictures. I do remember the buzz around it, seemed like it was quite the  sensation at the time.

and welcome!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960865It won't happen, or at least not for a long time.  The Tekumel Foundation is dedicated primarily to being the Tekumel Foundation, as near as I can tell.

"Forms follow function, Haldeman, and sometimes obliterate it completely.  This is the iron law of bureaucracy."

I'm sure you're right. Of course, at the current rate of foundation output (1 release/re-release per year? more-or-less?), very little of anything is going to happen for a very long time.

Quote from: Hrugga;960798I've been able to aquire many of the books you have suggested at very reasonable prices(in most cases a few dollars). So with the first two Lensman, first Barsoom, Lord of Light, and halfway through the first Meren novel(and others waiting in the wings), the spark has ignited the flame. To my delight and the cries of my wife as she looks upon the piles of yellowed tomes that are growing around our home...Thank you for the guidance!!! Long may your Light shine brightly!!!

Questions to follow...

H;0)

Excellent! Enjoy!

I'll be here...

Quote from: Zirunel;960857I'd like to know. It would be nice to see the last Seal come out, but it would also be nice to see the earlier issues back in print. The reason for pulling the license may give us a hint about how likely it is that that will ever happen.

It was mostly about the TF's control issues, and a dispute over royalties. They could not believe that there were about $750 a year in sales of all Carl's Tekumel products; they firmly believed (and may still believe, for all I know) that this is the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the Tekumel rainbow. So, they got his license pulled, and then were absolutely shocked that the game industry didn't come knocking with huge piles of money for them.

I told them what things were really like, as I have been doing for literally decades. I printed 250 copies of Deeds when I was at AGI, and the last of those copies finally sold out in 2009 or so. Basically, it took almost four decades to sell the 150 copies I had left over from my time at AGI, where I managed to sell 100 copies in three years.

I think that says a lot about the various approaches to the market, as well as the size of that market.

Quote from: bconsidine;960866First time poster, 619 page lurker. This thread has been instrumental in rekindling my love of Tekumel, which started when EPT first came out and was forever cemented when I saw the Temple of Vimuhla at an early GenCon (either last at the Playboy Club or first at UW Parkside).

Keep it up, folks. I'm along for the entire ride.

Blaise

Welcome! This is your thread; please free to ask anything you want, and please ask for clarification of the more obscure references!