Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960557I'd forgotten Tom ran through a couple of characters like that.  The irony about the first story is that at a typical Tsolyani party, if you have ANY social graces, any vestige of intelligence, or even average looks, it's about as much work to set up an amorous encounter as it is to get a beer out of my fridge.

Agreed. He just never really seemed to understand how the societies worked, of how to deal with the people we met.

Well, waddya do, eh? Send Turning Wheel another twenty kaitars for this year's fee...

Worth every hlash.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;960558Of course, let's not forget the differences between Tsolyani and late 20th century American culture.  The old 50's beach movie routine of the guy pretending to yawn and putting his arm down around the girl's shoulders would be insulting to a young Tsolyani woman, as you are implying either she is too stupid to understand what you are doing, or to ignorant to discuss sex openly.

Phil pretty much had no time for "coy."  Knowing Umbreen I'm not surprised...

Oh, yes indeed. He never did learn how to ask politely, sad to say...

Ah, me. Some people's children.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960556It's in the book, in Book Five. You may not have that part yet, so...

Three million kaitars.

At 3 grams each, that's nine million grams of gold; some tons worth, as you might guess. (About sixteen cubic feet of filthy lucre.) He'd dumped it ll into the Imperial treasury in Hekellu, issuing himself a writ for the money that he figured that he could cash back in the central empire and then took off. Phil was pretty cheesed off at him for bugging out, and took a moment out of the game play to politely remind Yours Truly that there was an entry on my 3x5 card saying that the Imperium owed me some money. Lord Takodai, the NPC Governor, took this opportunity to make good on the writ and pay off the Imperial debt. I located and hired a very secure vault, at very high speed.

Decades later, I was watching "Rome" one of Phil's favorites, and there is a scene where one of the heroes discovers a wagon full of the treasury of the Temple of Saturn. I laughed all over again, as I knew Phil had...

Yes you are right it is in the book. I had forgotten about it until you mentioned the secure vault.
Good old Titus Pullo my all time favourite TV character. "Thirteenth! Thirteenth!"

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;960562Yes you are right it is in the book. I had forgotten about it until you mentioned the secure vault.
Good old Titus Pullo my all time favourite TV character. "Thirteenth! Thirteenth!"

And some very good guardians, too...

Phil really liked the series, and I think GMs would find it both illuminating and useful for ideas and plots.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960533M. A. R. Barker and David L. Arneson come instantly to mind. Phil was much more interested in his novels then in game products, which I can certainly understand, and Dave was convinced that the future of gaming was in black-powder period historical miniatures - which I could not then, and still cannot now. Neither felt that RPGs were all that big a deal, and so the investment of time, energy, effort, and money in the Tekumel product lines stayed at the effectively fan-produced level for years. Phil felt that once he'd done EPT for Dave and Gary, he'd done his bit; he never finished S&G because he lost interest in the project. The AGI line was a 'lunch-time project' and always took a back seat to the production of the AGI line. (See also DLA's regularly referring to us as "the Tekumel boat people".)

Ah, I understand now, thanks

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960563And some very good guardians, too...

Phil really liked the series, and I think GMs would find it both illuminating and useful for ideas and plots.

Sometimes it seems to me, people are so obsessed with stressing the "alien" "non-western" character of Tekumel (oh look, Mayans in space!) that they downplay the huge classical Hellenistic/Imperial-Roman Mediterranean elements in the Professor's grand pastiche. It's a mashup sure, with a lot of ingredients, but much of it really isn't as "non-western" as some people pretend.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960541(...) Hence the name, "The Inexorable Cart of Chirine ba Kal".

(And yes, I have it in miniature, complete with little box full of player-character and (balsa) wood-shavings.)

Does this help explain things?

Yes. That helps a lot. Brilliant fun. Thank you for the account.

By the way, were you ever involved with "The Seal of the Imperium" journals? I think not, but I may be mistaken.
I've been told that there's actually a fourth, unpublished issue out there, one that's almost ready to go. The manuscript is probably filed away in some box somewhere, never to see the light of day.

Quote from: Zirunel;960567Sometimes it seems to me, people are so obsessed with stressing the "alien" "non-western" character of Tekumel (oh look, Mayans in space!) that they downplay the huge classical Hellenistic/Imperial-Roman Mediterranean elements in the Professor's grand pastiche. It's a mashup sure, with a lot of ingredients, but much of it really isn't as "non-western" as some people pretend.

I feel the same.

To me, the unique languages play a big part in making the world feel more alien and bizarre than it actually is. As a mental exercise, replace the Tsolyani words and names with Western Europe sounding ones. You'll notice that things don't feel so weird anymore.

Quote from: Zirunel;960565Ah, I understand now, thanks

You're welcome! Game design / writing was always a sideline with Phil - if he wasn't strongly interested, he wasn't interested. When he was, like with his 435 page set of siege rules, he was very interested. Most of what he wrote about Tekumel is historical, cultural, and linguistic and not directly game material.

Quote from: Zirunel;960567Sometimes it seems to me, people are so obsessed with stressing the "alien" "non-western" character of Tekumel (oh look, Mayans in space!) that they downplay the huge classical Hellenistic/Imperial-Roman Mediterranean elements in the Professor's grand pastiche. It's a mashup sure, with a lot of ingredients, but much of it really isn't as "non-western" as some people pretend.

Agreed; when you start to look at Tekumel in more detail, it gets a lot easier - especially if you know a lot about the historical periods that phil really liked - Ancient Egypt and the Successor period.

Quote from: Neshm hiKumala;960659Yes. That helps a lot. Brilliant fun. Thank you for the account.

By the way, were you ever involved with "The Seal of the Imperium" journals? I think not, but I may be mistaken.
I've been told that there's actually a fourth, unpublished issue out there, one that's almost ready to go. The manuscript is probably filed away in some box somewhere, never to see the light of day.

You're welcome!

Yes, as a consultant. Everybody who has anything to do with Tekumel seems to wind up on my doorstep, asking questions like these in this thread.

Yeah, he's got another one, but the TF pulled his license and won't let him do anything.

Quote from: Neshm hiKumala;960660I feel the same.

To me, the unique languages play a big part in making the world feel more alien and bizarre than it actually is. As a mental exercise, replace the Tsolyani words and names with Western Europe sounding ones. You'll notice that things don't feel so weird anymore.

Agreed,and very true.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;960663Agreed; when you start to look at Tekumel in more detail, it gets a lot easier - especially if you know a lot about the historical periods that phil really liked - Ancient Egypt and the Successor period.

True. I am about halfway into the first Lord Meren novel. Which you suggested as "flavor" for our games in the part I thread. It is really well researched(right down to the throwing sticks). Very helpful source for interactions between Nobles, Commoners and ancient life in general. Plus an entertaining story to boot.

H:0)

Quote from: Neshm hiKumala;960660I feel the same.

To me, the unique languages play a big part in making the world feel more alien and bizarre than it actually is. As a mental exercise, replace the Tsolyani words and names with Western Europe sounding ones. You'll notice that things don't feel so weird anymore.

Very good point. It really works!

Actually, I believe there may even be a few Greek (or Greek-inspired) names in Tsolyani. Nothing as well known as the Mayan Sacbe/Sakbe thing, which everyone picks up on, but I believe they are there.

Pretty sure "Sarku" was inspired by the  "sarco-" element in sarcophagus. Sark- doesn't really mean corpse, it means flesh, but we all know it best as part of "sarcophagus." Sarku, sarcophagus, I don't think that's a coincidence

And there is an Aspect of Karakan named Orkutai, "The City-Destroyer." Bet he got the idea from Demetrius I "Poliorketes," "The Besieger of Cities." Demetrius was a Successor king of Macedon that the Professor would have been quite familiar with.

There may be more "western-inspired" words and names in Tsolyani if you go looking for them.