Might be an odd question, but I figure asking it here might get some sensible answers, as opposed to other places where it would just result in a ban.

About to play in an historical fantasy game set in a Holy Roman Empire where magic works and nonhuman PC races are allowed. The game system is Renaissance Deluxe (a BRP variant where factions and beliefs have tangible in-game effects). The GM says we can pick any humanoid race from the creature section, so long as it has INT. I have a mind to play a vampire.

Here's where the religion bit comes in. I'm thinking he could be a devout Catholic. Crosses wouldn't affect him (in the rule system it's the victim's faith that repels a vampire, not the mere symbol), and I got to wondering about transubstantiation. The Catholic belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist literally become the flesh and blood of Christ.

See where I'm going with that? Aside from offending Catholics (of which there are none around the table, and if any reading this are offended, my apologies...), any reason. Why this wouldn't fly, in game? Not run it past the GM yet, and he may just shoot it down anyway...

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 06, 2023, 02:40:22 PM
Might be an odd question, but I figure asking it here might get some sensible answers, as opposed to other places where it would just result in a ban.

About to play in an historical fantasy game set in a Holy Roman Empire where magic works and nonhuman PC races are allowed. The game system is Renaissance Deluxe (a BRP variant where factions and beliefs have tangible in-game effects). The GM says we can pick any humanoid race from the creature section, so long as it has INT. I have a mind to play a vampire.

Here's where the religion bit comes in. I'm thinking he could be a devout Catholic. Crosses wouldn't affect him (in the rule system it's the victim's faith that repels a vampire, not the mere symbol), and I got to wondering about transubstantiation. The Catholic belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist literally become the flesh and blood of Christ.

See where I'm going with that? Aside from offending Catholics (of which there are none around the table, and if any reading this are offended, my apologies...), any reason. Why this wouldn't fly, in game? Not run it past the GM yet, and he may just shoot it down anyway...

Speaking as a Catholic myself; a huge factor in what you're thinking has to do with one's state when receiving the body and blood of Christ. It is actually a further sin to take Communion while in a state of mortal sin and you're already in a setting where the supernatural is especially overt.

I'd suggest the following; that if the vampire is taking the cup while in a state of grace (having committed no mortal sins since last receiving the sacrament of Reconciliation) then the cup would be treated as true blood (and likely especially potent blood... it is the blood of God after all), but if in a state of sin, it should burn like the Wrath of God (i.e. like drinking liquid sunshine) to receive it.

Personally, I'd take it a step further and have proper atonement followed by Communion as a CURE for vampirism, but in the alternative I remember back in the days when it was actually still being edgy and not just woke, Vampire the Masquerade had a bit with a particular group of Catholic vampires sustaining themselves entirely on the Blood of Christ via nightly midnight masses and a Priest with True Faith.

I knew this was the right place to ask! Chris, thank you!

So it could.potentially work, but I'd have to be 100% certain that the character was in a state of grace. So, immediately following the sacrament of Reconciliation?

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 06, 2023, 02:40:22 PM
The Catholic belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist literally become the flesh and blood of Christ.

See where I'm going with that?

Um, since it is not reality the vampire would starve. (no Catholic priest will seriously tell you that the bread and wine become real human blood & flesh) I was riased in the church so I do know.   So, you'd be back to square one with a character that couldn't be a practicing catholic.

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 06, 2023, 02:40:22 PM
Might be an odd question, but I figure asking it here might get some sensible answers, as opposed to other places where it would just result in a ban.

About to play in an historical fantasy game set in a Holy Roman Empire where magic works and nonhuman PC races are allowed. The game system is Renaissance Deluxe (a BRP variant where factions and beliefs have tangible in-game effects). The GM says we can pick any humanoid race from the creature section, so long as it has INT. I have a mind to play a vampire.

Here's where the religion bit comes in. I'm thinking he could be a devout Catholic. Crosses wouldn't affect him (in the rule system it's the victim's faith that repels a vampire, not the mere symbol), and I got to wondering about transubstantiation. The Catholic belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist literally become the flesh and blood of Christ.

See where I'm going with that? Aside from offending Catholics (of which there are none around the table, and if any reading this are offended, my apologies...), any reason. Why this wouldn't fly, in game? Not run it past the GM yet, and he may just shoot it down anyway...

Astro city

Spoiler

has a character that is a catholic vampire priest or something

Spoiler

. It is a good comic.

I do not think it is Catholic to "feed" on the blood of Eucharist.

He might eat the blood of animals, or chase the guilty and unrepentant. It might still be sinful to take people's blood, but he might find some justification as he can't kill himself either.

(Take this with a grain of salt, I'm far from a specialist.)

Not a Catholic, but most of my family is and I did some coursework on Medieval Christianity in college.

I would think a devoutly Catholic vampire would be accutely aware that he is an abomination in the eyes of God, and determined to find a way to redeem himself and earn his salvation. Not only would he be repulsed by the cross (since he believes in its power), but he might even intentionally expose himself to it in a vampiric equivalent of self-flagellation.

I'm fuzzier on this, but I believe taking communion without having first received absolution is a pretty grievous misdeed in traditional Catholicism, and I can't imagine any priest absolving someone of being a Vampire, though you could write that in as a backstory character.
CORRECTION: See Scooter's comment below.

Or you could go the other way, and make your character a sincere but misguided Catholic heretic who believes that the doctrine of transubstantiation represents a divine stamp of approval on vampirism. Maybe such a character would choose to feed only on the blood of the righteous, and be on a quest to imbibe the Blood of Christ directly from the Shroud of Turin or something like that.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 04:05:02 PM
I'm fuzzier on this, but I believe taking communion without having first received absolution is a pretty grievous misdeed in traditional Catholicism,

No, One partakes in the sacrament of Holy communion before one is introduced to the act of asking for absolution.

Quote from: Scooter on August 06, 2023, 04:13:57 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 04:05:02 PM
I'm fuzzier on this, but I believe taking communion without having first received absolution is a pretty grievous misdeed in traditional Catholicism,

No, One partakes in the sacrament of Holy communion before one is introduced to the act of asking for absolution.

  It can vary. The ancient arrangement, still followed in the East and reintroduced recently in some American dioceses, is to do baptism, confirmation, and the Eucharist together for infants and allow for children to receive communion, with Confession coming at the age of reason. The emphases in the West on the bishop as ordinary minister of confirmation and on the importance of understanding what you are receiving in the Eucharist has pushed confirmation and the Eucharist back to the age of reason or later.

  On the original topic, Chris/Jean-Valjean has the right of it, and Declan Finn's Love at First Bite novels include a Catholic vampire who works hard to keep herself in a state of grace and sustain herself on the Holy Eucharist in just such a fashion. The only question is if the setting's vampires are sustaining themselves on blood on the metaphysical level--that is, it is blood qua the reality of blood that preserves their unlife--or on a more materialistic, 'digestive' level. The Eucharist should count as sustenance for them in the former case, but not the latter. It would be more in keeping with the worldview of the times for vampires to be the former.

Quote from: Adam Csipke on August 06, 2023, 02:40:22 PM
Here's where the religion bit comes in. I'm thinking he could be a devout Catholic. Crosses wouldn't affect him (in the rule system it's the victim's faith that repels a vampire, not the mere symbol), and I got to wondering about transubstantiation. The Catholic belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist literally become the flesh and blood of Christ.

See where I'm going with that? Aside from offending Catholics (of which there are none around the table, and if any reading this are offended, my apologies...), any reason. Why this wouldn't fly, in game? Not run it past the GM yet, and he may just shoot it down anyway...

This offends me as a vampire movie fan more than anything else lol

But I say up to the GM. My feeling is it really downplays how evil and corrupted by satanic powers vampires ought to be, if drinking the eucharist gets around feeding on people. Theologically it probably wouldn't work (maybe if it redeems you while also killing you).But it is a game, so anything goes

Not a Catholic, but I know if a player is trying to pull a fast one around "Character Flaw: Vampire" when I see it. 

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 06, 2023, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: Scooter on August 06, 2023, 04:13:57 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 04:05:02 PM
I'm fuzzier on this, but I believe taking communion without having first received absolution is a pretty grievous misdeed in traditional Catholicism,

No, One partakes in the sacrament of Holy communion before one is introduced to the act of asking for absolution.

  It can vary.

No.  In the CATHOLIC church the OP is talking about that is how it is done.  It is a formal process. The Sacraments aren't given willy nilly.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 06, 2023, 04:05:02 PM
I would think a devoutly Catholic vampire would be accutely aware that he is an abomination in the eyes of God, and determined to find a way to redeem himself and earn his salvation. Not only would he be repulsed by the cross (since he believes in its power), but he might even intentionally expose himself to it in a vampiric equivalent of self-flagellation.

^^^^^
I think this is the more interesting character. A vampire repulsed by the symbols of his own faith, because of the power of belief he himself instills in the imagery. It's a character continually seeking absolution, with it perpetually out of reach. That, in itself, is an entire character arc waiting to unfold.

I would think that vampirism would be treated like possession.  I would assume that until it was cured that the vampire would be in a state of sin and unable to partake in holy sacraments.  I'd also assume that there would be a sacrament similar exorcism to dealing with it.

There are seven Roman Catholic Sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, Last Unction. The order is typically Baptism, next Confession, then Communion, next Confirmation, either Marriage or Holy Orders (only one held at a time), and lastly Last Unction. Confession and Communion will be repeated often within a lifetime. Marriage, either to a human or to God, is typically a lifetime commitment, but if death parts you from your human, or your calling to God is facing confliction with a true new calling to marriage, you can do either of the other "wedding" sacraments. Last Unction to be done on one's death bed can also be done several times, as God's grace may spare your life, even more than once.

To receive communion you *should* be in a state of grace having the sacrament of confession cleanse you. However it is not strictly forbidden in Roman Catholicism, as one under unexpectation, lack of access to confession, or other duress, can do a quick private contrition and prayer of forgiveness before walking up for communion. This was confirmed not only in my lengthy Roman Catholic education, but further with priests explaining such in sermons, and other external discussions with clergy in theological discussion both in and out of higher education.

BUT, ideally you should cleanse your self through the sacrament of confession beforehand.

Sins like murder can be forgiven as many times as needed. However, if vampires are cursed by god to survive in such a state of duress, it gets into questions on whether what one can do as the damned as self-destruction is ALSO a mortal sin, and one that circumvents the opportunity of contrition and forgiveness (as you are now dead and beyond the sanctity of sacraments of confession &.last unction). So if there is a way to survive on blood without human murder, you do that. If you want to be in communion with others of the faith, then you go through the sacrament of confession to cleanse your state into one of innocence to receive the transsubstatiative transformation of communion's sanctity.

As for it burning your vampire if not taken properly, sounds good, as is having your vampire with faithfulness accept the sacraments in order and accepting communion without harm when in a state of grace post-confession (because confession needs contrition to complete into absolution). And given the needs for perpetual adorations and staffing the Vespers, Complines, Matins, and *maybe* up to Lauds (dawn) there will be many moments when "night owl" faithful will be needed.

It would be a rather tortured existence at times, but I think that's the RP goal here. I have no qualms with this given my lifetime of Roman Catholic training. In fact, the idea that the faith symbols do not hurt the faithful vampire, unless one is attempting harm against the faithful in good standing using it as a protective apotropaic, would be an interesting RP moment. To corner a faithful criminal only to kneel before such symbols unharmed, but try to convince them to return to Christ in sacrament of confession, would be a wonderful inversion of typecast. In fact, a martyr's death in the process of trying to save a mortal soul from persisting in the path of damnation would be an acceptible means of release from the curse of undeath, as well as quite poignant scene.

First off, thanks to everyone for replying - some really interesting posts there!

It was a nice idea, but its not gonna work, I think. Far too many ways for my GM to BURN MY PC IN THE HOLY FIRES OF THE LORD!! LOL

A werewolf, however...