I've seen a good deal of discussion around fantasy race mechanics, most of which boils down to either:

1. Which numeric bonuses each race should enjoy.
2. Which social (generally non-mechanical, story-driven) ramifications of race and society to apply.

All of that's great. I am looking to explore a different track: racial differences that are more than just a bonus or penalty to some other existing game widget, while still expressing a specific mechanic that can be strategically leveraged by players.

DCC's "dwarves can smell gold" is an example of what I'm thinking about (at least, the way I'm thinking of it; if DCC turns this into some sort of standard stat bonus I wouldn't know and am ignoring that anyway for the purpose of this example).

Stuff like "hobbits are always hungry" is fun an interesting too, though I struggle to imagine how players could use that strategically.

Anyone have other examples?

The classic example is giving only demi-humans the ability to multiclass. Humans can change classes, but elves can change them every adventure.

Racial classes are another example: in ACKS, demihumans are never just fighters or clerics, they're Dwarven Vaultguards or Dwarven Craftpriests.

If "Dwarves can smell gold" is an example, then Infravision/Darkvision probably fall into this category of abilities, or any special senses, such as Echolocation, Ultrasonic Hearing, Seismic Sense, or pretty much any "Detect X" ability (Detect Animals, Water, Air Currents, etc.). Stuff like the ability to survive in different environments might qualify as well, including Breathe Air/Water/Methane?, Endure Hear/Cold (ignore environmental penalties, not damage), Survive Vacuum, etc.

I've also considered treating the ability to speak a possible trait as well. Like maybe some races like Lizardmen or Insectoid races might lack the ability to articulate human languages, but can only speak their own, leading to certain disadvantages (can't communicate with humans who can't understand Lizardmen or Insectoid languages), but possible advantages (can discuss battle strategy without being understood by most humans).

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 24, 2022, 11:01:12 AM
The classic example is giving only demi-humans the ability to multiclass. Humans can change classes, but elves can change them every adventure.

Racial classes are another example: in ACKS, demihumans are never just fighters or clerics, they're Dwarven Vaultguards or Dwarven Craftpriests.

This is a good point. Being focused on in-play strategies I hadn't even considered strategic choices at build-time. This brings up some followup questions for me (just spitballing here, I have no particular point to make):

1. To what extent are these classes social constructs? That is, would it make sense for a "Dwarf raised by Elves" to have one of these classes? (Because my players will go there, I promise!)

2. What sorts of specific strategic options would, say, "Vaultguard" or "Craftpriest" offer?

Quote from: VisionStorm on February 24, 2022, 11:49:50 AM
If "Dwarves can smell gold" is an example, then Infravision/Darkvision probably fall into this category of abilities, or any special senses, such as Echolocation, Ultrasonic Hearing, Seismic Sense, or pretty much any "Detect X" ability (Detect Animals, Water, Air Currents, etc.). Stuff like the ability to survive in different environments might qualify as well, including Breathe Air/Water/Methane?, Endure Hear/Cold (ignore environmental penalties, not damage), Survive Vacuum, etc.

Totally, sensory or environmental vectors are perfect, and these are great examples. Do any call out to you as being particularly applicable to an elflike or hobbitlike race, for example? (It seems easier to create a new exotic race to fit a cool ability, than to find cool abilities for more standard races. Which is another way to approach this I suppose).

And what would things like "Ultrasonic Hearing" afford the character?

Quote from: VisionStorm on February 24, 2022, 11:49:50 AM
I've also considered treating the ability to speak a possible trait as well. Like maybe some races like Lizardmen or Insectoid races might lack the ability to articulate human languages, but can only speak their own, leading to certain disadvantages (can't communicate with humans who can't understand Lizardmen or Insectoid languages), but possible advantages (can discuss battle strategy without being understood by most humans).

Cool conceptually, but sounds like it could be a nightmare in play!

Quote from: Zalman on February 24, 2022, 12:41:56 PM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 24, 2022, 11:01:12 AM
The classic example is giving only demi-humans the ability to multiclass. Humans can change classes, but elves can change them every adventure.

Racial classes are another example: in ACKS, demihumans are never just fighters or clerics, they're Dwarven Vaultguards or Dwarven Craftpriests.

This is a good point. Being focused on in-play strategies I hadn't even considered strategic choices at build-time. This brings up some followup questions for me (just spitballing here, I have no particular point to make):

1. To what extent are these classes social constructs? That is, would it make sense for a "Dwarf raised by Elves" to have one of these classes? (Because my players will go there, I promise!)

2. What sorts of specific strategic options would, say, "Vaultguard" or "Craftpriest" offer?

This could go either way, but I'm guessing probably closer to "social construct" than reliant on innate abilities. Though, I would imagine that there might be serious strictures against teaching outsiders any of these "racial" classes.

Quote from: Zalman on February 24, 2022, 12:41:56 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on February 24, 2022, 11:49:50 AM
If "Dwarves can smell gold" is an example, then Infravision/Darkvision probably fall into this category of abilities, or any special senses, such as Echolocation, Ultrasonic Hearing, Seismic Sense, or pretty much any "Detect X" ability (Detect Animals, Water, Air Currents, etc.). Stuff like the ability to survive in different environments might qualify as well, including Breathe Air/Water/Methane?, Endure Hear/Cold (ignore environmental penalties, not damage), Survive Vacuum, etc.

Totally, sensory or environmental vectors are perfect, and these are great examples. Do any call out to you as being particularly applicable to an elflike or hobbitlike race, for example? (It seems easier to create a new exotic race to fit a cool ability, than to find cool abilities for more standard races. Which is another way to approach this I suppose).

And what would things like "Ultrasonic Hearing" afford the character?

I'm guessing Ultrasonic Hearing would probably double effective hearing range, or something like that (for purposes of being able to identify intelligible speech, for example), and might allow characters to detect the hum of certain machines or perhaps magic artifacts, whistling air currents inside caves, etc.. Might apply to an elflike race, animal-hybrids (like cat or dog people) or creatures with large ears, and such.

A hobbitlike creature might gain acute sense of smell or olfaction in general (taste/smell; since they're obsessed with food), allowing them to detect specific substances by smell/taste, or maybe Track by Smell. Frog-like creatures might gain an Amphibian adaptation.

Quote from: Zalman on February 24, 2022, 12:41:56 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on February 24, 2022, 11:49:50 AM
I've also considered treating the ability to speak a possible trait as well. Like maybe some races like Lizardmen or Insectoid races might lack the ability to articulate human languages, but can only speak their own, leading to certain disadvantages (can't communicate with humans who can't understand Lizardmen or Insectoid languages), but possible advantages (can discuss battle strategy without being understood by most humans).

Cool conceptually, but sounds like it could be a nightmare in play!

Pretty much why I haven't tried it. But it's been in the back of my head for while, since I doubt all creatures would be capable of articulating human speak, and vice versa. How would we be able to speak an Insectoid language partly or wholy reliant on pheromones, for example? Might work for some sci-fi worlds, though.

I like giving my races lots and lots of mechanics. Some related to their biology, some related to culture, and even some being blessings directly from the gods (whether the race realizes it or not!) I know there's a danger of "book keeping" bloat, and/or making races "overpowered" (which is such a subjective thing, I hate to get into it). But if I'm NOT going to do race-as-class, I like having a mythical fantasy race fulfill a kind of archetypical "toolkit" so to speak. If a player has to agonize over which race to pick because they're all unique and desirable, that's a good thing for me.

(In before the "bIoESseNtIaLiSm!!1" screeching... I can hear it from a distance even now.)

One thing I did (I work in D&D 5E) is give our races a feature called "Natural Inclination." Instead of doing something lame like having ability scores be completely open like in Tasha's Cauldron, or being as restrictive as concrete modifiers, I list three ability scores to choose from, which you can apply a +2 in. For example, a dwarf's natural inclination is to either Constitution, Strength, or Wisdom. Then, you can apply a floating +1 to something else, representing your individual character's studiousness. The goal was to offer more gameplay flexibility without removing flavor.

I think there are good examples of traits that aren't simple bonuses - some from old-school, but more recently from games like Savage Worlds and D&D5. I think more major ones would be Infravision / Darkvision; or say, Flight for Aaracokra.

One could also upgrade more minor edges into major abilities. Old-school races have detecting secret door, but this could be upgraded for dwarves into a more major ability to detect traps, secrets, and other features in stonework.

5e halflings have luck as re-rolls any 1s on 1d20, while halfling in Savage Worlds draw an extra benny at the start of each session. Either could be upgraded to a more defining ability.

The question is more what ability is most appropriate to make a race distinctive.

I always figured something like an elf raised by dwarves would choose an elven racial class and figure it out or they'd get whatever the features the classes have in common and take the worse version of each. I doubt thats the actual rule but that's what i would do.

Elves are a type of communal, weak dryad and become weaker the further they travel from their home forest. Their queens are true dryads of a peculiar type of colonial tree, and her subjects are effectively her drones.

Dwarves were forged in fire, with bones of iron and basalt hearts, but with mortal flesh and blood. If the flesh is slain, it sloughs off, and dwarves will go to great ends to reacquire lost skeletons of their kin.

Halflings aren't really that short or light, because someone who weights 30 lb could never make an effective adventurer. Instead, they're basically just smaller than average humans. But small humans wrapped with an illusion of smallness, which bleeds into their homes and even their environs. This illusion is more than a hologram, it's a form of glamourie, and extends to their footprints in snow and the ability of bridges to hold their weight, as long as it seems believable to most watchers.

Elves are human automatons, bioengineered human servants from a time before magic. They are flesh and blood, but rid of imperfections and flaws, and can live almost forever. Their most ancient elders may remember snippets of this earlier era, but none of the younger elves do. Their blood may have special properties.

Dwarven joints don't work like human joints. They can twist in directions we can't, and are designed to allow dwarves to go down on all fours, and scuttle across the ground like a bow-legged lizard. Their great mountain port cities are all designed for visitors, with architecture based on upright travel. But the great and filthy warrens of their poor, and the vast mines that reach every corner of the Underdark, are twisty mazes with ceilings that make halfings stoop.

Halflings are a type of rat, which has mimicked the human form. They have great litters, and the more rat-like children are cast into the sewers, where they live in packs that communicate in semi-gutteral chirps. The ones who remain on the surface are more passable, though in times of stress they may develop rodent-like twitches. Middle-aged members may develop atavistic features like whiskers or a small wriggling tail, and be suddenly sent to a nunnery or monastery, to live the remainder of their lives robed, hooded, and secluded.

Quote from: Pat on February 24, 2022, 07:48:49 PM
Elves are a type of communal, weak dryad and become weaker the further they travel from their home forest. Their queens are true dryads of a peculiar type of colonial tree, and her subjects are effectively her drones.

Dwarves were forged in fire, with bones of iron and basalt hearts, but with mortal flesh and blood. If the flesh is slain, it sloughs off, and dwarves will go to great ends to reacquire lost skeletons of their kin.

Halflings aren't really that short or light, because someone who weights 30 lb could never make an effective adventurer. Instead, they're basically just smaller than average humans. But small humans wrapped with an illusion of smallness, which bleeds into their homes and even their environs. This illusion is more than a hologram, it's a form of glamourie, and extends to their footprints in snow and the ability of bridges to hold their weight, as long as it seems believable to most watchers.

Your Dwarves sound like one of the races of my Mayan fantasy game. The first "people" were made of clay, banished underground when the world was destroyed by fire they turned into "stone". Their nature renders them immune to fire and also supernaturally attuned to stone and clay being able to sense it, sense modifications to it and to work it in ways no one else can, probably because of some innate magic.

There's no hobbits, instead a race of monkey "people", who are the descendants of the twins, their gift is in the arts and crafts & sports, besides their natural abilities as monkeys, being from the new world they have prehensile tails. Improved senses: Smell, better hearing and able to see in the darkness of the jungle (so not total darkness).

Mind you this is an altered take on the actual Mayan myths.

The other race is humans, not sure if I will include a fourth race tho, I might use a modified version of the Aluches (the Mayan version of goblins). Which are hairy as fuck, think of Ewoks but with magic and a bad temper in the original myth, if you fail to give them presents bad things will happen to you. If you make a deal with them it's like the monkey paw, it always ends up baddly for humans. I haven't come up with a way to make them not evil yet.

Another option could be Jaguar people, but Jaguars are evil in Mayan mythology so who knows.

Trolls are a type of invasive weed, that grows on the banks of rivers. Many towns clear-cut their riverbanks out to a day's travel, though this causes problems with erosion and game populations. Only in the spring do the troll-weeds grow large enough to bifurcate, uproot themselves, and start walking. They have a tremendous desire for iron and liquid, which generally means blood. They often ravage nearby livestock populations, and fearlessly attack settlements. They're not really sapient, and when slain by fire, their heads explode into what seems to be a burst of down, but is actually seeds wrapped in balls of filament that can catch the air and drift for miles.

Orcs are humans who live in an area where a certain mineral seeps into water table. They grow up mentally stunted and clumsy, but have a growth spurt around puberty where they develop massive, abnormal musculature. They tend to have problems controlling their temper, so families that try to protect their orchildren are often found strangled or torn apart. Some cultures put them to death, others cast them out.

Quote from: Zalman on February 24, 2022, 12:41:56 PM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 24, 2022, 11:01:12 AM
The classic example is giving only demi-humans the ability to multiclass. Humans can change classes, but elves can change them every adventure.

Racial classes are another example: in ACKS, demihumans are never just fighters or clerics, they're Dwarven Vaultguards or Dwarven Craftpriests.

This is a good point. Being focused on in-play strategies I hadn't even considered strategic choices at build-time. This brings up some followup questions for me (just spitballing here, I have no particular point to make):

1. To what extent are these classes social constructs? That is, would it make sense for a "Dwarf raised by Elves" to have one of these classes? (Because my players will go there, I promise!)

2. What sorts of specific strategic options would, say, "Vaultguard" or "Craftpriest" offer?

ACKS uses race-as-class and class-specific-XP.

A dwarven vaultguard is much like a human fighter, can't use two-handed weapons, doesn't get a morale bonus for followers in battle, gets standard dwarven racial powers (including excellent saves); +10% xp per level, max level 13 (instead of 14).
A dwarven craftpriest is much like a human cleric, with a wider range of permitted weapons; they have THREE extra proficiencies, standard dwarven racial powers (including excellent saves), and a domain that is more like a fighter's castle than a cleric's temple; +60% xp per level!, max level 10 (instead of 14).

Because the class includes racial abilities, it's not really a cultural construct and wouldn't make sense for a member of another race. If you have the ACKS Player's Companion rules for custom classes, it wouldn't be hard (probably less than 5 minutes work) to make a "Elf trained by Dwarven Craftpriest" unique class if you didn't want to give them elvish magic _or_ the extra proficiencies; by rules-as-written I think you'd have to trade away the 1d6 hd, the fighting ability, or half the clerical spellcasting ability to get the extra proficiencies.

I tend to prefer delegating race-related rules almost exclusively to the GM or even directly to the players, or treat them as cosmetic parts of the roleplay. This isn't because I don't think that races don't have statistical differences, but that PCs are almost invariably exceptions to the rules of how the universe normally works. That, and I have an inherent aversion to telling players they can't do something, or to build a game with micro-minutia rules which bloat the character sheet more than they add to the game experience.

That said, to each their own.

If I were to design a race system, it would probably actually be using family trees, where you choose two or three effects from your extended ancestry (only really different from race in terminology) and two or three effects from your immediate ancestry, like your parents and grandparents. This way the race as a whole can have a consistent theme, look, and feel, but the PC isn't particularly compelled to fit the mold too precisely.

Quote from: Zalman on February 24, 2022, 10:37:45 AM
I've seen a good deal of discussion around fantasy race mechanics, most of which boils down to either:

1. Which numeric bonuses each race should enjoy.
2. Which social (generally non-mechanical, story-driven) ramifications of race and society to apply.

All of that's great. I am looking to explore a different track: racial differences that are more than just a bonus or penalty to some other existing game widget, while still expressing a specific mechanic that can be strategically leveraged by players.

DCC's "dwarves can smell gold" is an example of what I'm thinking about (at least, the way I'm thinking of it; if DCC turns this into some sort of standard stat bonus I wouldn't know and am ignoring that anyway for the purpose of this example).

Stuff like "hobbits are always hungry" is fun an interesting too, though I struggle to imagine how players could use that strategically.

Anyone have other examples?

These days that'll get you screwed over for racism.

Problem is the idea in an equalist world is that NOBODY is better than anyone else at anything. So each and every player got to play the same thing. Nobody can be stronger, nobody can be faster, oh you got infravision damn everyone else better too or else WHATEVERISM!


Me, I don't give a damn. Being what I am already damns me with the woke, they'll hate on me just for being here, so why the hell should I care what anyone thinks? I give different races different abilities- hobbits are good at sneaking around because theyre smaller and weaker so it makes sense. Elves got better dexterity because elves and are great with archery. They also live long so they got a different view of getting things done. Half-orcs are strong and kind of dumb but I figure if they have any friends they're loyal as hell to them. Dwarfs are hard to rip off and can spot one fake coin in Smaug's cave. Because they work with these things and have the knack.