Re: Pulp RPG systems

Not included in your mix, I've a fondness for White Wolf's "Adventure!" (probably irrationally so) and would be curious as to others' take on the game as I've not done anything other than read bits and bobs from the book.

I personally loved their take on the proto-supers that were to come along before the big guys hit the scene.

I'd second the vote for something BRP-based. I have its Astounding Adventures monograph, and that's what I'd go with. Or maybe just Call of Cthulhu stripped down, or the old BRP Quickstart. Secondly I'd try the Hero system, based on how exciting Lands of Mystery looks. I have Justice Inc sitting on the shelf just rarin' to go...

Quote from: Baron on February 22, 2023, 07:06:37 PM
I'd second the vote for something BRP-based. I have its Astounding Adventures monograph, and that's what I'd go with. Or maybe just Call of Cthulhu stripped down, or the old BRP Quickstart. Secondly I'd try the Hero system, based on how exciting Lands of Mystery looks. I have Justice Inc sitting on the shelf just rarin' to go...

I still have love for the HERO System that I used for years. I have a lost world adventure that I ran many times using HERO inspired by Lands of Mystery. (ref)

Even at the time, though, I feel like pulp was one of the worse fits for the HERO System. Pulps by their nature are not very detail oriented, and HERO is very detailed by its nature. To me, it feels more pulp if the gadgeteer can pull out random stuff from his kit that might not fit with what went before, or a hero suddenly pops up where he's least expected, and so forth. I feel like a more rules-light system is a better fit.


On the plus side, most of _Lands of Mystery_ is in the background and suggestions, more than HERO System stats. I'd heartily recommend it even if you aren't using HERO.

Oh no! Your adventure is a "south seas" adventure! 

Quote from: Baron on February 22, 2023, 07:06:37 PM
I'd second the vote for something BRP-based. I have its Astounding Adventures monograph, and that's what I'd go with. Or maybe just Call of Cthulhu stripped down, or the old BRP Quickstart. Secondly I'd try the Hero system, based on how exciting Lands of Mystery looks. I have Justice Inc sitting on the shelf just rarin' to go...

I don't have Astounding Adventures; how does it compare to something like GURPS Cliffhangers? Also I just looked at the BRP Quickstart and remembered this is the entire game. Since we're talking about Pulp, all you need to do is just GM fiat all the magic and weird crap, make the characters normies using the basic character sheet. Pretty simplistic...

I've never seen the GURPS book, and I've only skimmed AA. But here's a link to a review: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_reviews_info.php?&reviews_id=110132&products_id=128386

Quote from: Brad on February 22, 2023, 08:36:50 PM

Quote from: Baron on February 22, 2023, 07:06:37 PM
I'd second the vote for something BRP-based. I have its Astounding Adventures monograph, and that's what I'd go with. Or maybe just Call of Cthulhu stripped down, or the old BRP Quickstart. Secondly I'd try the Hero system, based on how exciting Lands of Mystery looks. I have Justice Inc sitting on the shelf just rarin' to go...

I don't have Astounding Adventures; how does it compare to something like GURPS Cliffhangers? Also I just looked at the BRP Quickstart and remembered this is the entire game. Since we're talking about Pulp, all you need to do is just GM fiat all the magic and weird crap, make the characters normies using the basic character sheet. Pretty simplistic...

Wait, "normies"?

Pulp characters have to be larger than life and a cut above the average in at least one way.

Domino Lady, The Fury
The Phantom, Tarzan
The Black Bat, The Spider, The Shadow

Don't get me started with Doc Savage that was the first Superman.

Your PC doesn't have to have a secret identity but it most definetely is not a normie.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 22, 2023, 12:02:01 AM

Quote from: Batjon on February 21, 2023, 09:15:38 PM
I'm looking for true fans of pulp adventure that are willing to look at each of the games below to see which is the supreme pulp adventure game for everything from Indiana Jones to The Mummy to Tomb Raider to Uncharted to Clive Cussler to hardboiled detective noir fiction ala Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett to Sin City.

The contendors:

Hollow Earth Expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_Expedition
Broken Compass https://twolittlemice.net/brokencompass/
Dicey Tales https://diceytales.com/
Two-Fisted Tales 2nd. edition https://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=46
Temples & Tombs https://shop.gallantknightgames.com/products/temples-tombs

So here's my totally surface level review.

I find art of a game usually has clues to the politics, and world view of the game designers. Pulp should be hyper masculine, have a period style, and any competent women are attractive and feminine while being dangerous. The further the art strays from that, the more likely the game won't ring true.

Hollow Earth Expedition: Plenty of manly men and attractive women, images of fighting and strange locations. Looks good.

Broken compass: The main art splash is 2 women, 2 men. 1 woman acting like Indy, man standing in a pose, woman saving a damsel in distress man. Instant concern.
Then an image search for the game gives us this:

Hard pass.

Dicey Tales: Looks like a borderline case. Art has plenty of muscular, competent men; but also seems to have a need to have a physically dangerous woman for every man. In a nutshell not egregious enough to put me off of trying it, but not very evocative either.

Two-Fisted Tales: Great cover. Higher male to female hero ratio, and no need to randomly make traditionally male hero roles female just because. Female archetypes seem period authentic. Guys look capable, women look pretty. Use of Pulp art from the period speaks of a love of the genre.
Makes me want to give it a try.

Temples and Tombs: Only one pic to go from (the cover), but it's faux-Indy, in a nice exotic temple. So far so good.

I admit that art is important to my enjoyment of games.
Be these standards the cover of Thrilling Tales (also used by Savage Worlds) wins hands down. Best pulp cover ever.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 22, 2023, 09:17:54 PM
Wait, "normies"?

Pulp characters have to be larger than life and a cut above the average in at least one way.

Domino Lady, The Fury
The Phantom, Tarzan
The Black Bat, The Spider, The Shadow

Don't get me started with Doc Savage that was the first Superman.

Your PC doesn't have to have a secret identity but it most definetely is not a normie.

Haha, you took that way too literally...I meant you don't need to use any of the BRP Powers and stuff; you can just use the skill system to make them hyper competent. The Phantom, for instance, isn't literally immortal, he just seems that way due to a clever use of primogeniture. No need for any sort of "Immortality" power. That's what I meant. My point is the BRP quickstart can make Pulp characters, then the GM can do whatever he needs to in order to inject the actual supernatural stuff. I mean, isn't even Mandrake essentially just the greatest illusionist ever? He doesn't have any real powers, right? Nothing like what D&D would call a spell, at least.

A good example would be at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. No one has any sort of mystic abilities (certainly not Indy), so that whole sequence doesn't actually need any sort of rules; the GM can just decide how things are going to work and the PCs have to deal with it. There doesn't need to be a set system of mechanics in place. Same with the Holy Grail. The GM just says, okay the Grail will heal injuries and extend your life. There's no need for game mechanics; a simple description works.

Quote from: jhkim on February 22, 2023, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: Baron on February 22, 2023, 07:06:37 PM
I'd second the vote for something BRP-based. I have its Astounding Adventures monograph, and that's what I'd go with. Or maybe just Call of Cthulhu stripped down, or the old BRP Quickstart. Secondly I'd try the Hero system, based on how exciting Lands of Mystery looks. I have Justice Inc sitting on the shelf just rarin' to go...

I still have love for the HERO System that I used for years. I have a lost world adventure that I ran many times using HERO inspired by Lands of Mystery. (ref)

Even at the time, though, I feel like pulp was one of the worse fits for the HERO System. Pulps by their nature are not very detail oriented, and HERO is very detailed by its nature. To me, it feels more pulp if the gadgeteer can pull out random stuff from his kit that might not fit with what went before, or a hero suddenly pops up where he's least expected, and so forth. I feel like a more rules-light system is a better fit.


On the plus side, most of _Lands of Mystery_ is in the background and suggestions, more than HERO System stats. I'd heartily recommend it even if you aren't using HERO.

Lands of Mystery is a must-have for anyone running a "lost world" sort of pulp adventure.  I think it's one of the finest RPG supplements ever.

Quote from: Danger on February 22, 2023, 06:24:15 PM
Re: Pulp RPG systems

Not included in your mix, I've a fondness for White Wolf's "Adventure!" (probably irrationally so) and would be curious as to others' take on the game as I've not done anything other than read bits and bobs from the book.

I personally loved their take on the proto-supers that were to come along before the big guys hit the scene.

I bought that game and also never played it.

The big thing it advertised was that the players could fudge the setting to their benefit during play. Honestly, that seems unnecessary, or at least overcomplicated.

Quote from: Brad on February 23, 2023, 11:36:13 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 22, 2023, 09:17:54 PM
Wait, "normies"?

Pulp characters have to be larger than life and a cut above the average in at least one way.

Domino Lady, The Fury
The Phantom, Tarzan
The Black Bat, The Spider, The Shadow

Don't get me started with Doc Savage that was the first Superman.

Your PC doesn't have to have a secret identity but it most definetely is not a normie.

Haha, you took that way too literally...I meant you don't need to use any of the BRP Powers and stuff; you can just use the skill system to make them hyper competent. The Phantom, for instance, isn't literally immortal, he just seems that way due to a clever use of primogeniture. No need for any sort of "Immortality" power. That's what I meant. My point is the BRP quickstart can make Pulp characters, then the GM can do whatever he needs to in order to inject the actual supernatural stuff. I mean, isn't even Mandrake essentially just the greatest illusionist ever? He doesn't have any real powers, right? Nothing like what D&D would call a spell, at least.

A good example would be at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. No one has any sort of mystic abilities (certainly not Indy), so that whole sequence doesn't actually need any sort of rules; the GM can just decide how things are going to work and the PCs have to deal with it. There doesn't need to be a set system of mechanics in place. Same with the Holy Grail. The GM just says, okay the Grail will heal injuries and extend your life. There's no need for game mechanics; a simple description works.

Okay, yes, most Pulp characters IIRC don't have any powers.

Mandrake... Well, here's the thing, it all depends, sometimes he's just using smoke and mirrors, others it's hipnotism, others illusionism and then there's others where it's not clear if "the rabitt" he just pulled out of his hat was real or just an illusion with the evidence pointing to real.

The Shadow does have mystic powers.

The Phantom is an example of the top human possibilities, being a world class athelete, martial artist, gunslinger, etc. due to intensive training from birth.

Most are just exceptional in one or two fields.

It all depends on what you want to include in your campaign, if you're gonna allow a totally not The Shadow then you do need a system/mechanics for his powers.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 23, 2023, 12:12:21 PMIt all depends on what you want to include in your campaign, if you're gonna allow a totally not The Shadow then you do need a system/mechanics for his powers.

Fair enough. The Shadow can basically do what though? Become invisible I suppose, but you could handle that with a "supernatural" Stealth roll and say he's able to move normally if he makes it. "Cloud men's minds" is the arbitrary mystical power, use Projection and a Resistance roll, done. I guess Mandrake could have "Sleight of Hand" that is supernatural; operates like a normal skill but can do stuff beyond what mere humans are capable of.

I am only talking about BRP here, obviously. Pulp powers can just be ad hoc and use the existing skills with little to no effort.

Quote from: Brad on February 23, 2023, 01:46:59 PM
Fair enough. The Shadow can basically do what though? Become invisible I suppose, but you could handle that with a "supernatural" Stealth roll and say he's able to move normally if he makes it. "Cloud men's minds" is the arbitrary mystical power, use Projection and a Resistance roll, done. I guess Mandrake could have "Sleight of Hand" that is supernatural; operates like a normal skill but can do stuff beyond what mere humans are capable of.

I am only talking about BRP here, obviously. Pulp powers can just be ad hoc and use the existing skills with little to no effort.

At least on the radio show, The Shadow can do more than just become invisible. He reads minds, hypnotizes, and does some other tricks. This is the version of The Shadow that was most often adapted, like in the 1994 movie where he also had other psychic abilities including telekinesis.

Still, it's worth noting that in the original pulp stories, The Shadow didn't have mystic powers. He was just incredibly good at hiding. The character was rewritten to be more mystic and over-the-top for the radio show.

A pulp game should probably have powers as an option to cover the choice to have things like psychic abilities, but they could be optional.

Quote from: Brad on February 23, 2023, 01:46:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 23, 2023, 12:12:21 PMIt all depends on what you want to include in your campaign, if you're gonna allow a totally not The Shadow then you do need a system/mechanics for his powers.

Fair enough. The Shadow can basically do what though? Become invisible I suppose, but you could handle that with a "supernatural" Stealth roll and say he's able to move normally if he makes it. "Cloud men's minds" is the arbitrary mystical power, use Projection and a Resistance roll, done. I guess Mandrake could have "Sleight of Hand" that is supernatural; operates like a normal skill but can do stuff beyond what mere humans are capable of.

I am only talking about BRP here, obviously. Pulp powers can just be ad hoc and use the existing skills with little to no effort.

In BRP I guess you can, pretty much the same for GURPS/Hero/Action/Fuzion and similar systems.

BTW I have a table of Pulp powers if anyone is interested.