https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soc4GrlymzY
Fucking Traveller again... I'm sure you old bastards on here will love this shit.
This seems to me like a game of chess would look if you got a couple of people who'd never played but just read the rules.
He seems not to have learned to game under a competent GM, and thus never learned the various little things you do to make games start and run smoothly.
Who?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1053970https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soc4GrlymzY
Fucking Traveller again... I'm sure you old bastards on here will love this shit.
Goddamn. Kill me now.....
Those characters sounded interesting.
And definitely easier to play then some procedurally generated product of a point buy system, where you half-heartedly put your points into a whole lot of things with no real idea what they're going to add up to - or you do know what you want - but can't do it anyway because there aren't enough points to go around.
A disgraced noble who joined the military got scarred and then abandoned on an alien planet for two years. I know how to play that guy. He's interesting.
Quote from: TJS;1053980Those characters sounded interesting.
And definitely easier to play then some procedurally generated product of a point buy system, where you half-heartedly put your points into a whole lot of things with no real idea what they're going to add up to - or you do know what you want - but can't do it anyway because there aren't enough points to go around.
A disgraced noble who joined the military got scarred and then abandoned on an alien planet for two years. I know how to play that guy. He's interesting.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Also, that video triggered me. :D
Go through this list of options and pick the character type you want.
Now that I've set expectations and you have decided what you want to play, make a character by going through this lifepath system that doesn't really give a shit what you picked.
Wow, my players aren't happy. What went wrong?
Quote from: TJS;1053980A disgraced noble who joined the military got scarred and then abandoned on an alien planet for two years. I know how to play that guy. He's interesting.
That was what struck me (watched this last night) - guy rolls up an awesome character background that many pulp/military SF novelists would be proud of, and abandons the game because he didn't get to be a noble living a life of luxury. WTF?
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1053985Go through this list of options and pick the character type you want.
Now that I've set expectations and you have decided what you want to play, make a character by going through this lifepath system that doesn't really give a shit what you picked.
Wow, my players aren't happy. What went wrong?
The problem lies in the first statement, not the second. That statement reflects a long-standing
misunderstanding of Traveller, even among some of its long-time fans. The careers do not narrowly indicate the character's status at the end of character generation, but the starting point for character generation and a resulting
broader set of possible outcomes. So the expectations set are inaccurate because the participants misunderstand what the careers imply.
for a different example, consider the Merchant career in Classic Traveller (CT) Bk1. The stereotype for a merchant PC is "mortgaged Free Trader". For some people that is "quintessentially Traveller", but that is statistically the least likely outcome of the Merchant career. It is in fact the least likely outcome of CT Bk1 chargen as a whole.
The solution?
1. Forget your assumptions from other games.
2. RTFM. All of them. (Bk 1-3 is a quick read, if you have CT.)
3. Know your probabilities.
Quote from: RandyB;1054014The problem lies in the first statement, not the second. That statement reflects a long-standing misunderstanding of Traveller, even among some of its long-time fans. The careers do not narrowly indicate the character's status at the end of character generation, but the starting point for character generation and a resulting broader set of possible outcomes. So the expectations set are inaccurate because the participants misunderstand what the careers imply.
for a different example, consider the Merchant career in Classic Traveller (CT) Bk1. The stereotype for a merchant PC is "mortgaged Free Trader". For some people that is "quintessentially Traveller", but that is statistically the least likely outcome of the Merchant career. It is in fact the least likely outcome of CT Bk1 chargen as a whole.
The solution?
1. Forget your assumptions from other games.
2. RTFM. All of them. (Bk 1-3 is a quick read, if you have CT.)
3. Know your probabilities.
I was pointing out the problem with the GM's approach, not suggesting the game does this. Traveller is not a game where you decide exactly what your character is going to be prior to commencing char-gen, so starting chargen by asking everyone to decide exactly what their character is going to be is stupid.
I was also annoyed about the discussion of ship cost, especially the suggestion that the characters would just sell the ship and retire. How uncreative do you have to be to give them paid-off ship with no strings attached? Off the top of my head:
* The ship was used in some piracy and is pursued by several governments
* It has a hidden cargo aboard that a crime lord wants
* The ship has a reputation as being cursed (or the scene of a massacre, or used in some religious ritual, or it's a lemon) that prevents people from wanting to buy it.
You could get at least one adventure out of that alone.
The PCs can always be employees, of a merchant or survey corporation or a government that owns the ship. Or a noble house etc.
A self-described shitty GM is shitty at running a Traveller game. What's there to talk about?
Quote from: S'mon;1054010That was what struck me (watched this last night) - guy rolls up an awesome character background that many pulp/military SF novelists would be proud of, and abandons the game because he didn't get to be a noble living a life of luxury. WTF?
This is a guy who's worried that his players will sell the ship and retire, after all.
Retire. A PC. Before the first game session.
Quote from: Pat;1054036This is a guy who's worried that his players will sell the ship and retire, after all.
Retire. A PC. Before the first game session.
There's a story of a player who figured out how to "win" Shadowrun, I think 3rd edition:
"At character creation, I take priority A for resources, that gives me 1 Million $. With that money, I buy a lifelong middle class lifestyle. And DONE! My character doesn't have to work any more and retires! I just won the game! Of course, I can't play this character, so I make another one. Let me see... I take priority A for resources and buy a lifelong middle class lifestyle. And I just won again! This game is easy..."
Quote from: Pat;1054036This is a guy who's worried that his players will sell the ship and retire, after all.
Retire. A PC. Before the first game session.
It's the D&D GM's attitude towards level 1 starting characters: "if they had all the magic loot and gold, they wouldn't adventure. So I start them out with nothing."
Because people with life experience, or, dare I say, "old people" (anyone over 26) don't go on adventures.
Quote from: Sable Wyvern;1054024I was pointing out the problem with the GM's approach, not suggesting the game does this. Traveller is not a game where you decide exactly what your character is going to be prior to commencing char-gen, so starting chargen by asking everyone to decide exactly what their character is going to be is stupid.
You get it. :) The referee in question didn't. My advice is to anyone who is like that referee.
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1054042Because people with life experience, or, dare I say, "old people" (anyone over 26) don't go on adventures.
Don't say that to Buzz Aldrin - he still wants to go back into space and live on Mars.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Pat;1054036This is a guy who's worried that his players will sell the ship and retire, after all.
Retire. A PC. Before the first game session.
Its come up before so its a valid worry when you have smart-ass players who dont really want to play.
"I sell my family heirloom magic sword I just inherited and become a farmer."
From the video I got the following impressions.
The DM knew his players enough to guess they were potential smartasses and one or more might pull a "Sell the heirloom and retire" gag.
The DM did not explain the chargen enough which in part caused the disconnect.
The players apparently lacked any imagination or at least had little to no flexibility which magnified the disconnect.
Well it definitely sounded like they weren't really into the whole idea of Traveller in the first place.
Given that - smart-ass passive aggressiveness could well arise.
But really - if the whole idea of the setting and the premise of the game didn't appeal in the first place why try it? It's not a failure of a game if players don't want to play it. I'm sure there's some damn good superheroes games out there - but you'll never get me to play one no matter how good they are - I just don't want to. (And if for some reason I did I'd probably bring the whole game down due to my general dislike for the genre and inability to take it seriously).
Quote from: Omega;1054071Its come up before so its a valid worry when you have smart-ass players who dont really want to play.
"I sell my family heirloom magic sword I just inherited and become a farmer."
"Okay, congratulations, you can go home now, maybe we'll see you in the next campaign. Now, what are the
rest of you doing?"
This is one of the advantages of an open game table, having enough players you don't mind losing some. And the funny thing is - I don't actually lose them. Strangely, the fact that I don't care if they go makes them want to stay. Because ultimately even the smart-arse actually does want to play, he just wants to be a smart-arse for a bit first. Well okay, I bend him over the table and hump his hams to establish dominance, and then we play on.
D&D players suck at Traveller.
Traveller players suck at Traveller. :D
Hulks & Horrors (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/111781/Hulks-and-Horrors--Basic-Black-Edition) by our very own poster J Arcane has a fun approach to space ships. They're kinda like trucks, Winnebagos, etc. AKA, sure the brand new top of the line ones are expensive, but any group of clowns can get an old junker that's leaking fluids while careening through space. Traveller always puts a premium on ships - understandably - especially those with Jump drives, and I've certainly seen the PC attitude about stealing ships & selling them and most assuredly a single salvage of a 200 ton ship could result in campaign altering funds in the millions.
I've GM'd enough Traveller to deal with the "and now you're all lottery winners" aspect of the game. Most players roll with it, but sometimes "I retire!" would be the right roleplay for that PC.
But that's what we have 2D6 for. Making new PCs.
Hey, Mongoose Traveller 1e! Is it bad I can identify Traveller editions without their being named?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1054110Hulks & Horrors (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/111781/Hulks-and-Horrors--Basic-Black-Edition) by our very own poster J Arcane has a fun approach to space ships. They're kinda like trucks, Winnebagos, etc. AKA, sure the brand new top of the line ones are expensive, but any group of clowns can get an old junker that's leaking fluids while careening through space. Traveller always puts a premium on ships - understandably - especially those with Jump drives, and I've certainly seen the PC attitude about stealing ships & selling them and most assuredly a single salvage of a 200 ton ship could result in campaign altering funds in the millions.
Someone on the Mongoose forum put in the work to convert [the bulk of] mortgage payments to repair and maintenance costs. Worth checking out if you're running Traveller and going for a Firefly feel.
I thought it was awesome. Never heard of this channel. The Nobilis review is gold!
Quote from: Rithuan;1054115I thought it was awesome. Never heard of this channel. The Nobilis review is gold!
Yeah, my boy and me enjoy watching Puffin Forest together as bed-time Youtubing. :D
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1054042It's the D&D GM's attitude towards level 1 starting characters: "if they had all the magic loot and gold, they wouldn't adventure. So I start them out with nothing."
Because people with life experience, or, dare I say, "old people" (anyone over 26) don't go on adventures.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warehouse-13-artifact-database/images/f/fc/Jacques_Cousteau%27s_Diving_Suit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160805031408)
Heavy Josh must never have played Classic Traveller. Or maybe only Scouts.
Quote from: Dave R;1054113Hey, Mongoose Traveller 1e! Is it bad
It quite good, the only issue like with all Mongoose products it is a tad pricey for what you get. MgT 2e is likewise OK just redundant compared to MgT 1e. My viewport is that MgT 1e is a cleaned up classic Traveller.
Quote from: Dave R;1054113I can identify Traveller editions without their being named?
Not sure what you mean. The following editions are related
CT Classic Traveller -> MT MegaTraveller -> Three Branches
Branch 1: T4 Marc Miller's Traveller -> T5 Traveller 5th edition
Branch 2: MgT1e Mongoose Traveller 1st edition -> MgT2e Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition
Branch 3: MgT1e Mongoose Traveller 1st edition + T20 Traveller 20 -> Cepheus Game Engine
TNE Traveller New Era
TH Traveller Hero (Hero System)
T20 Traveller 20 (d20 System)
GT GURPS Traveller (GURPS)
While nearly all editions of Traveller can be used as a generic Science Fiction RPG, CT and MgT 1e are known for their support of generic SciFi.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1054334(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warehouse-13-artifact-database/images/f/fc/Jacques_Cousteau%27s_Diving_Suit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160805031408)
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1054360Heavy Josh must never have played Classic Traveller. Or maybe only Scouts.
Jesus guys, I was being sarcastic! :P
Is there a :roll-eyes: here?
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1054459Jesus guys, I was being sarcastic! :P
Is there a :roll-eyes: here?
(http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/smiles/negativeman.png)
Quote from: Heavy Josh;1054459Jesus guys, I was being sarcastic! :P
Is there a :roll-eyes: here?
I didn't catch the sarcasm, sorry.