We have a few published megadungeon campaigns, like Stonehell Dungeon, Barrowmaze, Dwimmermount. Has anyone done the same for the wilderness and published a full West Marches (or Elder Scrolls!) type sandbox campaign, with hundreds of encounters, mini-dungeons, fully detailed material enough for many levels of play? I can't think of anything like this on the market.
Quote from: S'mon;1029851We have a few published megadungeon campaigns, like Stonehell Dungeon, Barrowmaze, Dwimmermount. Has anyone done the same for the wilderness and published a full West Marches (or Elder Scrolls!) type sandbox campaign, with hundreds of encounters, mini-dungeons, fully detailed material enough for many levels of play? I can't think of anything like this on the market.
I've never seen the notes on the West Marches campaign, but isn't this basically Monster Island for Mythras is;)?
Quote from: AsenRG;1029946I've never seen the notes on the West Marches campaign, but isn't this basically Monster Island for Mythras is;)?
That reminds me - I have Griffon Mountain for Runequest, that's pretty close to what I'm thinking of. Odd that apparently no one has ever done this for D&D? There are mini sandbox campaign settings like Isle of Dread, but nothing covering say 10 levels? No Oblivion/Skyrim equivalent?
I guess of what I have, Yggsburgh is closest - designed for C&C PCs in the 4th-9th range but could be tweaked for 1-9 I guess.
I'm not 100% across what West Marches means exactly (I thought it meant rotating PCs?), but Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting is similar to this; 6 isolated cities in a large wilderness. 50 adventure frameworks, many random encounter tables, etc.
Quote from: S'mon;1029948That reminds me - I have Griffon Mountain for Runequest, that's pretty close to what I'm thinking of. Odd that apparently no one has ever done this for D&D? There are mini sandbox campaign settings like Isle of Dread, but nothing covering say 10 levels?
Yes, I think Griffon Mountain fits the bill of a sandbox in a book. It really is odd that a similar setting book has never been published for D&D. Mini-campaigns like the Vault of Larin Karr and Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia are the closest we get. Is there really no audience for a sandbox setting in a book?
Quote from: S'mon;1029851We have a few published megadungeon campaigns, like Stonehell Dungeon, Barrowmaze, Dwimmermount. Has anyone done the same for the wilderness and published a full West Marches (or Elder Scrolls!) type sandbox campaign, with hundreds of encounters, mini-dungeons, fully detailed material enough for many levels of play? I can't think of anything like this on the market.
Commercially, there are many, only a few still in print though. This also does describe seven of my homebrewed Campaign settings,
Tamerthya, a D&D campaign setting conceived in 1999 and finished in 2013,
Etrania, one of my oldest D&D campaign settings that dates back to 1984 or so,
Ashavergath, a Roman & Egyptian science fantasy D&D campaign setting set on a larger planet than Earth, circling a distance star that was conceived in 2006-2007. There is also
The Seven Kingdoms (2013) my Far East Fantasy/Wuxia campaign setting, as well as
The Frontier Sector (1984-1985),
The Genian Sector (2017), and
The Sharmara Cluster (2017), the latter three being for the
Traveller RPG. ...Maybe I should publish one of these.
Actual published sandbox settings already include
The Judges Guild Wilderlands, Greyhawk, Mystara, The Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Glorantha, Hârn, Kingdoms of Kalamar, Erde, Middle Earth, and Rhune, and that's just Fantasy settings off the top of my head.
Also have several sandbox campaign settings created for
Gamma World, as well including
Northern California, Florida, Colorado, Texas, Sydney, Australia or
New South Wales, and my Friend Brian Judt created
Gamma World Great Lakes that covers
Chicago, Indiana, & Michigan, and he also has a Gamma World setting that includes
Vegas, Nevada, Arizona & New Mexico that predates anything published for
Fallout.
Also have to add in Rob Conley's
Majestic Wilderlands variant campaign setting here...
Quote from: S'mon;1029948That reminds me - I have Griffon Mountain for Runequest, that's pretty close to what I'm thinking of.
Griffon Mountain is almost surely the inspiration for Monster Island. Given that it was published when Mythras was still called Runequest 6, it seems like a safe bet;)!
QuoteOdd that apparently no one has ever done this for D&D? There are mini sandbox campaign settings like Isle of Dread, but nothing covering say 10 levels? No Oblivion/Skyrim equivalent?
Well, if you're asking me about the logic of publishing pre-made campaigns, you're
definitely asking the wrong person:D! I don't have much experience with published campaigns, period, and only got Monster Island because I really respect the authors.
Great question; there is surprisingly little of this sort out there. If you are looking for recent, OSR material, then there are several that offer a sort of large wilderness area with significant details as part of a bigger megadungeon package. The Forbidden Caverns of Archaia, Anomalous Subsurface Environment, and Rappan Athuk are examples. But I think of these as basically puffed up versions of B2, where you get a dozen or so encounter areas as part of the 'door step' of your dungeon. What I'd love to see is a proper 'megadungeon' treatment of a wilderness area, complete with 100+ keyed locations and presented at something like a 1km per hex scale, so you can actually make exploring decisions more detailed than 'I head north for 2 days, roll for random encounters'. There are some great maps available as online fan produced resources for the BD&D Mystaria setting. If you are intimidated by making a map you might snag those and just start dropping in locations, inhabitants, encounter and event tables, etc. But, it is pretty disappointing how little of this sort is out there as commercial products.
https://landofnod.blog/nod/
Not sure if this fits what you are looking for, but these are fairly extensive hex crawls filled with dungeon sites and the like. I'm pretty sure several ussues are still free to download.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1029985What I'd love to see is a proper 'megadungeon' treatment of a wilderness area, complete with 100+ keyed locations and presented at something like a 1km per hex scale, so you can actually make exploring decisions more detailed than 'I head north for 2 days, roll for random encounters'.
You and me both. A large town, several villages, a wizard's tower, some temples, ruined castles, a medium-sized dungeon, etc. Campaign in a box. I'd like that more than a 500 room megadungeon, or a linear adventure path.
Quote from: Haffrung;1030000You and me both. A large town, several villages, a wizard's tower, some temples, ruined castles, a medium-sized dungeon, etc. Campaign in a box. I'd like that more than a 500 room megadungeon, or a linear adventure path.
I'll send you my notes after I next run a fantasy campaign;).
Quote from: Psikerlord;1029951I'm not 100% across what West Marches means exactly (I thought it meant rotating PCs?), but Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting is similar to this; 6 isolated cities in a large wilderness. 50 adventure frameworks, many random encounter tables, etc.
Looks like what I was seeking - ordered from Lulu, thanks!
Early Known World stuff is certainly West Marches type (The Grand Duchy of Karameikos is on the western frontier of the Empire after all). But wasn't Thunder Rift basically this too?
Quote from: KingofElfland;1030167Early Known World stuff is certainly West Marches type (The Grand Duchy of Karameikos is on the western frontier of the Empire after all). But wasn't Thunder Rift basically this too?
Not nearly enough detail; even less than Wilderlands.
Quote from: S'mon;1030010Looks like what I was seeking - ordered from Lulu, thanks!
most welcome!
Quote from: S'mon;1030237Not nearly enough detail; even less than Wilderlands.
There are some pretty intensely detailed maps out there: http://www.pandius.com/wbrklmet.html
Quote from: Larsdangly;1030407There are some pretty intensely detailed maps out there: http://www.pandius.com/wbrklmet.html
The problem with Pandius is that they take the Known World after it left behind being a West March style sandbox and became a full setting with FR level canon. Bruce Heard is great, but his Mystara is not as interesting as Moldvay's Known World.
I don't know anything about the setting canon blather; I never pay any attention to that stuff, other than useful details like how many knights commanded by the baron of such and such castle, etc. My point was just that the map itself is at the appropriate scale for a really juicy wilderlands sandbox. I think the game is enormously improved by having people approach wilderness travel in the same way they do dungeon exploration, with active player decision making and a large diversity of obstacles and hazards. a 1 mile per hex map is pretty good for that purpose (provided it is large enough that you don't walk off its edge in a couple of hours).
Quote from: Larsdangly;1030449I don't know anything about the setting canon blather; I never pay any attention to that stuff, other than useful details like how many knights commanded by the baron of such and such castle, etc. My point was just that the map itself is at the appropriate scale for a really juicy wilderlands sandbox. I think the game is enormously improved by having people approach wilderness travel in the same way they do dungeon exploration, with active player decision making and a large diversity of obstacles and hazards. a 1 mile per hex map is pretty good for that purpose (provided it is large enough that you don't walk off its edge in a couple of hours).
I recently ran a 2.5 year Karameikos campaign. The maps are nice but any sandboxing had to be created by me placing adventure sites. I was asking about pre-prepared sandbox campaigns with sites already detailed.
Quote from: S'mon;1030469I recently ran a 2.5 year Karameikos campaign. The maps are nice but any sandboxing had to be created by me placing adventure sites. I was asking about pre-prepared sandbox campaigns with sites already detailed.
Good point; what would be terrific is to combine the level of detail and effort found in these maps with a couple-hundred entry set of encounters and sites.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1030470Good point; what would be terrific is to combine the level of detail and effort found in these maps with a couple-hundred entry set of encounters and sites.
This Blog entry is interesting - http://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/blog-formless-wilderness.html
It seems to indicate that what I'm looking for doesn't really exist outside of old Fighting Fantasy gamebooks; in particular he calls out Scorpion Swamp, which was more sophisticated than the others since it allowed for backtracking and had separate "if you have been here already" sections.
Edit: There are adventure-level products like this, eg Vault of Larin Karr - which I made the mistake of running in 4e D&D; nowadays 5e D&D would have suited it much better. Nothing like a full 1-10 campaign though.
Doesn't Hellfrost (http://www.tripleacegames.com/store/hellfrost-products/) and Hellfrost: Land of Fire (http://www.tripleacegames.com/store/hellfrost-land-of-fire-products/) count as this?
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Quote from: Greentongue;1030879Doesn't Hellfrost (http://www.tripleacegames.com/store/hellfrost-products/) and Hellfrost: Land of Fire (http://www.tripleacegames.com/store/hellfrost-land-of-fire-products/) count as this?
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Could be. I don't know much about it. Anyone here seen the inside of that book?
Quote from: Haffrung;1029958Yes, I think Griffon Mountain fits the bill of a sandbox in a book. It really is odd that a similar setting book has never been published for D&D. Mini-campaigns like the Vault of Larin Karr and Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia are the closest we get. Is there really no audience for a sandbox setting in a book?
I think its easier to make this kind of product for RQ as it is a game with a lower power curve than D&D. The steeper a games power curve, the more likely an entire sandbox campaign in a box is going to have parties encountering a lot of insta-kill or walkover enemies. Granted, not having perfectly balanced encounters is something that you want in a sandbox game, but 1-20th level D&D allows for some real extremes in that regard when outside of a structured dungeon.
With RQ, characters vary in their skill and magic, but they don't have the same kind of HP inflation.
I'm not saying it can't be done in D&D. I just can see why it isn't more commonplace as a product.
Quote from: S'mon;1030877This Blog entry is interesting - http://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/blog-formless-wilderness.html
It seems to indicate that what I'm looking for doesn't really exist outside of old Fighting Fantasy gamebooks; in particular he calls out Scorpion Swamp, which was more sophisticated than the others since it allowed for backtracking and had separate "if you have been here already" sections.
It doesn't even exist in old FF gamebooks, TBH.
I have tried to do something like this on two occasions - a supplement detailing a small playing area with its own adventure sites, hubs of civilisation, and underlying conflicts - but never got beyond a few bits and pieces, even though setting them up in play was actually pretty easy. Things just didn't happen the way I'd have preferred. This blog post (http://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.hu/2016/09/blog-dirt-cheap-sandbox.html) is actually more relevant than the one you cited, describing the basic recipe for such a "stone soup" kind of mini-setting, as well as my outline for one of the projects that was never finished. The other one's described here (http://fomalhaut.lfg.hu/2010/03/04/broken-wastes/).
I'm also trying to
finally do something along these lines with my zine - ideally, by presenting material that's modular enough to stand on its own, but also to form a bigger picture if you put the pieces together. Maybe third time's the charm. :D
Quote from: Baulderstone;1030916I think its easier to make this kind of product for RQ as it is a game with a lower power curve than D&D. The steeper a games power curve, the more likely an entire sandbox campaign in a box is going to have parties encountering a lot of insta-kill or walkover enemies. Granted, not having perfectly balanced encounters is something that you want in a sandbox game, but 1-20th level D&D allows for some real extremes in that regard when outside of a structured dungeon.
With RQ, characters vary in their skill and magic, but they don't have the same kind of HP inflation.
I'm not saying it can't be done in D&D. I just can see why it isn't more commonplace as a product.
I feel like one of the fun things about this kind of sandbox setting is that the players' strategies and decisions are strongly influenced by the fact that they don't know whether they just stumbled across the entrance to B1 or S1. It really doesn't bother me when high level PC's raid merchant caravans or other vulnerable targets, or low level PC's stumble into a troll's lair and get eaten. That is just the setting coming to life with PC's as a natural part of it.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1030924I feel like one of the fun things about this kind of sandbox setting is that the players' strategies and decisions are strongly influenced by the fact that they don't know whether they just stumbled across the entrance to B1 or S1. It really doesn't bother me when high level PC's raid merchant caravans or other vulnerable targets, or low level PC's stumble into a troll's lair and get eaten. That is just the setting coming to life with PC's as a natural part of it.
I agree completely. I believe in the opposition to the players being based on what makes sense rather than what they can handle. I just think that when people design products for commercial sale, they tend to worry a little more about balance.
I'm just speculating on why there are so few products like this, not suggesting that there shouldn't be any. I'd love to see more giant sandbox products.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1030897Could be. I don't know much about it. Anyone here seen the inside of that book?
It is a well detailed setting with published adventures but no requirement to play those adventures.
There are plenty of adventure hooks everywhere or you can hang your own from the bones provided.
Lots of detail but plenty untouched because it is a huge setting.
You can find a lot of bits and pieces with some searches that will give a good feel for what it is.
It kinda requires Savage Worlds rules but could be mined for other systems, as with most settings.
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Quote from: Melan;1030917It doesn't even exist in old FF gamebooks, TBH.
I have tried to do something like this on two occasions - a supplement detailing a small playing area with its own adventure sites, hubs of civilisation, and underlying conflicts - but never got beyond a few bits and pieces, even though setting them up in play was actually pretty easy. Things just didn't happen the way I'd have preferred. This blog post (http://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.hu/2016/09/blog-dirt-cheap-sandbox.html) is actually more relevant than the one you cited, describing the basic recipe for such a "stone soup" kind of mini-setting, as well as my outline for one of the projects that was never finished. The other one's described here (http://fomalhaut.lfg.hu/2010/03/04/broken-wastes/).
I'm also trying to finally do something along these lines with my zine - ideally, by presenting material that's modular enough to stand on its own, but also to form a bigger picture if you put the pieces together. Maybe third time's the charm. :D
Very interesting, thank - the Queans Waste does seem like a particularly nice spot for a wilderness sandbox. :)
I guess the FF gamebooks are interesting because of the clear point-crawl structure, which tends to be obfuscated in published RPG materials. A real wilderness sandbox with the style of the
Sorcery! series would be awesome.
Quote from: Psikerlord;1029951I'm not 100% across what West Marches means exactly (I thought it meant rotating PCs?), but Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting is similar to this; 6 isolated cities in a large wilderness. 50 adventure frameworks, many random encounter tables, etc.
Been going over this since it arrived yesterday. It kinda has the tools to create a West Marches type hexcrawl or pointcrawl sandbox, without being one. The 50 adventures for instance would need to be keyed to an in-game useable map so that the PCs can encounter them by travelling over the map. The only regional map I can find in the book seems purely indicative, not something that could be used to map journeys in play. It mentions more maps online somewhere which I've not googled for yet.
One thing about Ben Robbins' description of West Marches is that it seems to be at a pretty small scale, reminiscent of Forest of Doom or Scorpion Swamp, not the 5+ miles per hex typical of sandbox campaign settings. Something like the 1 mile per hex of the Yggsburgh map seems like about the maximum for this play style, where every bridge, rocky outcrop and fallen log can potentially be meaningful.
Rob Conley's Blackmarsh (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/89944/Blackmarsh) (or its precursor, the Rorystone Road (https://rpg.rem.uz/Wilderlands/Wilderlands%20D20/free%20downloads/D20%20Rorystone%20Road.pdf) download) are about the correct scale. These are large enough to make travel distances meaningful, but small enough to make everyone seem to be part of the neighbourhood. However, you are correct - you could also create something like Scorpion Swamp (or the inferior Forest of Doom) as a pointcrawl, and build from that.
One of my friends had a Sorcery! campaign going; he had mapped out the whole area from the Shamutanti Hills to Mampang on one hex sheet, and it was pretty successful. Unfortunately, he never published his notes, which were in Hungarian anyway.
Quote from: Melan;1031104Rob Conley's Blackmarsh (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/89944/Blackmarsh) (or its precursor, the Rorystone Road (https://rpg.rem.uz/Wilderlands/Wilderlands%20D20/free%20downloads/D20%20Rorystone%20Road.pdf) download) are about the correct scale. These are large enough to make travel distances meaningful, but small enough to make everyone seem to be part of the neighbourhood. However, you are correct - you could also create something like Scorpion Swamp (or the inferior Forest of Doom) as a pointcrawl, and build from that.
One of my friends had a Sorcery! campaign going; he had mapped out the whole area from the Shamutanti Hills to Mampang on one hex sheet, and it was pretty successful. Unfortunately, he never published his notes, which were in Hungarian anyway.
I think I am going to have to do it myself... I think to start maybe I'll take a small area of wilderness IMC, just a few miles across, and try mapping it out more like it was an above-ground dungeon. Forest with trails, clearings, overgrown ruins etc in the Forest of Doom style seems like a good prospect. Wooded hills might be good - caves, cliffs, spots of marshy ground.
Edit: I already use Rob's Barbarian Altanis as my core campaign area, but expanded to 15 miles/hex it needs a lot of drilling down for what I'm thinking of.
The Wormshead Peninsula and the nearby coastal areas on the City State map are pretty good. Independent island-kingdoms, a smaller and a larger city, and a bunch of wilderness. I even added Rappan Athuk to the mix on the seacoast.
Thanks for the shout out folks.
My observation over the past couple of decades of running this stuff is that while my Majestic Wilderlands is organized like a hexcrawl, players explore it like pointcrawl or more accurate a webcrawl. The reason being is that the players generally don't explore by wandering the landscape, they explore by traversing the overlying social network of NPCs and monsters.
For example this is what the players knew about Dearthwood (near City-State) at the beginning. Note small hexes are 1 league (2.5 miles) = 1 hour of walking. Big hexes are 5 leagues (12.5 miles).
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2354[/ATTACH]
Full Map (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uFRryp40Yc8/U9cNuxvWrZI/AAAAAAAAKEo/zr-IEJoRwpU/s1600/Dearthwood+Forest+Rev+3.jpg)
This is what they wound knowing at one point
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2355[/ATTACH]
Full Map (https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1zaR1aM7y1LHegiSztofd0D7FJ4ZGYbkj)
Why?
That thread of the campaign started with the PCs inadvertently (https://gamingballistic.com/2015/06/30/majestic-wilderlands-party-goes-to-ma/) recusing a little girl named Mori. Apparently she considers Maud, a green dragon who lives in Dearthwood, to be a mother figure. I roleplayed the girl is being a bit "off" so the PCs wasn't sure if she was somebody polymorphed, a fae, or what. (Actually she was just a ordinary little girl that the Green Dragon grew to love as a mother). So at the time of this post the party decided to go to Dearthwood and see what up with Mori and possibly return Maud. Because among other things Maud was a known ally of Pan Caulderax.
If you read the rest of the posts, you can see the PCs following the threads (https://gamingballistic.com/category/actual-play/majestic-wilderlands/) from the NPCs and creature they discover.
For the most part, my experience is that playing Source of the Nile (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1577/source-nile) in a D&D campaign is a specific taste not shared by many players. And certainly not all the time. It can work but what more interesting to more players is interacting with sentient beings i.e. NPCs. So I try to combine that with adventuring into the unknown. If you look at Blackmarsh and Rorystone Road you will see that many locale point other locales because of the particulars of the NPCs there.
My home made sandbox setting (the Marches of Magdaw) encourages free form wandering in two ways: The default center of the campaign is the court of King Magdaw, who serves as a sort of pagan Arthurian figure, surrounded by a hierarchical gang of henchmen whose status arises largely from errantry. So, if you want to shine you need to get out into the countryside and do something cool. And 2) practically every 1E, BD&D and OSR dungeon you ever heard of, along with stuff I've written, are dappled somewhere across the landscape within a week or so from the court. There must be over 200 mapped dungeons on the map, along with a bunch of surface encounters, wandering personalities and famous monsters, etc. The place is absolutely crawling with stuff to do. So, your PC's really can just head off into the unknown confident they will get rich or famous or dead.
Quote from: Greentongue;1030926It is a well detailed setting with published adventures but no requirement to play those adventures.
There are plenty of adventure hooks everywhere or you can hang your own from the bones provided.
Lots of detail but plenty untouched because it is a huge setting.
You can find a lot of bits and pieces with some searches that will give a good feel for what it is.
It kinda requires Savage Worlds rules but could be mined for other systems, as with most settings.
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It's pretty broad, but leaves enough room for your own details. To me it has just the right amount of detail. Broad enough to cover all bases, but not so much info that all the blanks are filled. The player's guide has about 15 organisations and the gazetteer has about 15 evil organisations and about 50 different regions. Not too much detail, but enough to give you a clear idea what they are all about.
Froggod Games has a series of Hexcrawl modules: http://froggodgames.org/hex-crawl-chronicles
"It's wilderness sandbox of areas, encounters and villages that players travel around in. It provides no story line, just hundreds of story hooks and possibilities. An example of what this looks like that I published a few years ago can be found."
I own a few of them, mainly for the random encounter tables. It's standard fare, not very original, but lots of it.
Also, ages ago, you (S'mon) were kind enough to suggest "Vault of Larin Karr" to me (overon EnWorld), which I've come to love and now often suggest to others when the question of a more sandboxy module with parallel plot strands and lots of insular encounters on a map comes up. So, right back atcha, hehe.
Quote from: Jorunkun;1033564Also, ages ago, you (S'mon) were kind enough to suggest "Vault of Larin Karr" to me (overon EnWorld), which I've come to love and now often suggest to others when the question of a more sandboxy module with parallel plot strands and lots of insular encounters on a map comes up. So, right back atcha, hehe.
Thanks :D
Yeah VoLK is an example of a mini-version of what I'm thinking of.
Honest question: What do you mean by 'mini-dungeons'?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033573Honest question: What do you mean by 'mini-dungeons'?
I think most folks would use that phrase to describe any kind of underground or building adventure site with 1-10 rooms/sites (give or take). This is the scale of lots of small locale's that get distributed around larger megadungeons (e.g., Barrowmaze or Rappan Athuk have a bunch like this). Dyson's Delves include many such dungeons.
Quote from: S'mon;1031105I think I am going to have to do it myself... I think to start maybe I'll take a small area of wilderness IMC, just a few miles across, and try mapping it out more like it was an above-ground dungeon. Forest with trails, clearings, overgrown ruins etc in the Forest of Doom style seems like a good prospect. Wooded hills might be good - caves, cliffs, spots of marshy ground.
Edit: I already use Rob's Barbarian Altanis as my core campaign area, but expanded to 15 miles/hex it needs a lot of drilling down for what I'm thinking of.
My How to Make a Sandbox (http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-make-fantasy-sandbox.html) has procedures and tips for fleshing out an arbitrary area.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033573Honest question: What do you mean by 'mini-dungeons'?
Stuff like this The Three Brothers Barrows (https://www.lythia.com/news/three-brothers-barrow/). Or the material in the Harn Pottage Series (https://www.lythia.com/series/pottage/). Small locales with the potential for a short adventure.
Quote from: estar;1033595Stuff like this The Three Brothers Barrows (https://www.lythia.com/news/three-brothers-barrow/). Or the material in the Harn Pottage Series (https://www.lythia.com/series/pottage/). Small locales with the potential for a short adventure.
That doesn't look very mini to me. But if that's what S'mon meant, it's cool. :)
Quote from: S'mon;1031098Been going over this since it arrived yesterday. It kinda has the tools to create a West Marches type hexcrawl or pointcrawl sandbox, without being one. The 50 adventures for instance would need to be keyed to an in-game useable map so that the PCs can encounter them by travelling over the map. The only regional map I can find in the book seems purely indicative, not something that could be used to map journeys in play. It mentions more maps online somewhere which I've not googled for yet.
One thing about Ben Robbins' description of West Marches is that it seems to be at a pretty small scale, reminiscent of Forest of Doom or Scorpion Swamp, not the 5+ miles per hex typical of sandbox campaign settings. Something like the 1 mile per hex of the Yggsburgh map seems like about the maximum for this play style, where every bridge, rocky outcrop and fallen log can potentially be meaningful.
Yes the 50 adventures are for dropping wherever the GM chooses, not allocating them on the map was intentional. As you suggest the map is more for rough directions. You could possibly lay a hex over it, but given it's isometric, that might be too fiddly. I tend to steer clear of hexes myself and just eyeball things, then declare "it's about 3 days travel east" etc
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033573Honest question: What do you mean by 'mini-dungeons'?
A dungeon intended for use in a single 4 hour game session?
Quote from: estar;1033594My How to Make a Sandbox (http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-make-fantasy-sandbox.html) has procedures and tips for fleshing out an arbitrary area.
I think your system is aimed at a bit larger scale Rob. For doing my own mini-sandbox I'm really thinking of something that ideally looks more like an above ground dungeon in terms of detail & scale, eg Horror on the Hill:
(https://newbiedm.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/pcs-hill-map.jpg)
Or something like what you could build with the wilderness tiles from 'Descent', where the wilderness is mapped as if it were a dungeon. Hmm.
Quote from: S'mon;1033644I think your system is aimed at a bit larger scale Rob. For doing my own mini-sandbox I'm really thinking of something that ideally looks more like an above ground dungeon in terms of detail & scale, eg Horror on the Hill:
If it helps my experience is that the process is inherently fractal in nature. That you do the same things regardless of scale until you start hitting the level of individual buildings. What differs is that you ignore steps 1 to 3 and change step 4 to be X by Y. In fact despite my explicit call out for a 200 mile by 150 mile area, the example, the Island of Piall, is only 15 miles by 15 miles.
Quote from: S'mon;1033642A dungeon intended for use in a single 4 hour game session?
That! I can agree with. So something like the ones in 5e's Out of The Abyss's Chapter 2. Gotcha. Hmm, Sadly, I don't know any game setting, but I'd be curious in finding more.