Quote from: SettembriniI own number 360.
Ptolus is not built as collector's item. It's a huge step forward in usability. Fully indexed, sidebars with cross references clear layout, that's easy on the eye. Naive realistic illsutrations, not some Manga shit.
It's like a Meerschaum pipe:
Superiour, smoother smoke, but a little bit pricier.


And the campaign setting itself is very much to my liking:
Cthuloid backstory, limits on planar sillyness, Monotheistic State church, middle european look and feel, while staying true to Core Book assumptions. It's a bit like a traveller sector:
Enough info mapped out to keep travelling, and you can use it for different kinds of campaigns.

All in all the biggest innovation is it's ease of use and elegance in production values. It's not nearly as lavish as the flavour-of-the-month games. It's more akin to a university textbook than fantasy art porn we all have become used to see.

It's huge and pricey, yes. But everything in it is of value. No filler, all content.

You have the right of it. I have copy 86. I bought the thing on the installment plan - $10 a month was quite painless. Had the preorder installment plan not been available, I doubt I'd have bought the book. Not because there's anything wrong with the book, but because I just can't afford to spend $120 in one fell swoop on a game product very often, if ever.

I love city supplements, mostly because I hate making cities from scratch. Ptolus is pretty much the ne plus ultra of city supplements. There is a lot to love about this book, some of which Settembrini mentions. Off the top of my head, I love the way that the sidebars will provide more depth or provide cross-referencing for something in the main text, and give an exact page number to something that relates to whatever is being touched on in the main text.

With the preorder, one got access to the Delver's Guide website, which provides a lot more usable content. Last I checked, there was something like 70-some-odd pages of new content for Ptolus on it - locations, NPCs, factions, etc.

This is the type of book that I feel sets a standard. Yeah, the industry as a whole can't withstand many such books, but it sets the bar high for others to reach for. The sheer utility of the product is astounding. Couple that with the beauty of the book, and with how interesting it is just to pick up and browse through, and it's one of the best buys I've made. Plus, I can see non-gamers picking it up and looking at it and finding it interesting. I can't see a non-gamer buying it, but I can see a non-gamer looking at it and wanting to find out more about the hobby.

I've been skipping around in the book, reading whatever catches my eye, and following cross-references all around the book. It's a very inspirational book, one that makes me want to use it as more than just an idea mine. Next chance I get, I'll use it as the main city in my campaign world.

Quote from: RPGPunditHas anyone actually played this, or even looked at it?

Opinions?

I haven't looked at it at all, and while I recognize the gargantuan level of effort it represents, I think it also represents precisely the wrong direction for games to be heading, speaking in terms of the wellbeing of the industry.

But I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.

RPGPundit

I would agree, save that every person who I have heard comment on it who owns a copy talks about how practically useful it is.

I've no love of the move to glossy hardbacks, but I have a deep and abiding love for a move towards utility and games designed to be played.  

So, since this does appear to be utile and designed to be played, that matters more to me than the continuation of the trend towards glossy hardbacks.  That said, I don't play current DnD so I don't see myself using it at all.




For the interested, current is intentional, my most recent rpg purchase was a copy of the original DnD Rules Cyclopedia.  What can I say, I'm a grognard.

With all these sidebars is there a table of contents for sidebars?  I saw that recently with the new Shadowrun Street Magic book, which also has a lot of sidebars, and think it rocks.  Nothing sucks like trying to hunt down a sidebar that you just know is in there somewhere, but because it is a tangent to the context of the section it is in it's hard to locate using the normal ToC.

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonYeah.  That'll be me.  I don't even play D&D and I'm seriously considering it.  I wonder if it'll be OOP by Christmas...

That's me too as I'm not likely to play D&D for some time. What do you owners think about it's utility as a general use product?  I noticed the Knowledge check charts in the Player's Handbook. How much D20 'crunch' would you say the book composes of?  Are NPCs generally described by blurbs of motivations and personality and background as well as stat blocks? Or is it even more likely that they be described without stat blocks?

Quote from: blakkieWith all these sidebars is there a table of contents for sidebars?  I saw that recently with the new Shadowrun Street Magic book, which also has a lot of sidebars, and think it rocks.  Nothing sucks like trying to hunt down a sidebar that you just know is in there somewhere, but because it is a tangent to the context of the section it is in it's hard to locate using the normal ToC.

I haven't seen a sidebar index, but I'm not sure there needs to be one. So far, the sidebars have dealt with whatever is being discussed on the same page, so having a separate index probably would be redundant. I'm qualifying what I say on this only because I haven't read the book completely, but this is proving true so far.

Quote from: blakkieThat's me too as I'm not likely to play D&D for some time. What do you owners think about it's utility as a general use product?  I noticed the Knowledge check charts in the Player's Handbook. How much D20 'crunch' would you say the book composes of?  Are NPCs generally described by blurbs of motivations and personality and background as well as stat blocks? Or is it even more likely that they be described without stat blocks?

There's a lot of crunch. Pretty much any NPC has a complete stat block. It's made so that when using it, one has to reference other rulebooks as little as possible.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThere's a lot of crunch. Pretty much any NPC has a complete stat block. It's made so that when using it, one has to reference other rulebooks as little as possible.

Do they also normally have a paragraph describing motivations, maybe even general moral and such? A basic understanding of what is going on?

Even for, say, city guards do they also describe the norms for members of the organization along with the stat block of a squad or whatever positions within the organization?

P.S. I hadn't heard about that payment plan. I really hadn't paid much attention to Plotus because I had assumed it wouldn't be much value outside of D&D. Anyway that payment plan sounds like a pretty good marketing idea to mitigate a lot of issue with the sticker price.  Is the total paid in the installments more than if you'd just preordered and paid in one lump?

Quote from: blakkieDo they also normally have a paragraph describing motivations, maybe even general moral and such? A basic understanding of what is going on?

Oh yeah. It details out how these NPCs interact with other NPCs, their motivations, affiliations, etc. They are made an actual, "living" part of the city.

Quote from: blakkieEven for, say, city guards do they also describe the norms for members of the organization along with the stat block of a squad or whatever positions within the organization?

In a word: yep.

Quote from: blakkieIs the total paid in the installments more than if you'd just preordered and paid in one lump?

No.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonOh yeah. It details out how these NPCs interact with other NPCs, their motivations, affiliations, etc. They are made an actual, "living" part of the city.

In a word: yep.

Sold!  Now to figure out which kid to sell into slavery so I can buy it.


P.S. I still think a ToC of sidebars along with descriptive sidebar titles really, really rocks. I wonder where Fanpro ripped the idea from. Because they didn't do it for the core SR4 book, and now that Street Magic has it I really miss it from the core book.  I think it might be one of those face palm ideas that has you saying "it is so great, why hasn't this been done since the advent of sidebars?" only when you go back to not having it there.

Quote from: blakkieEven for, say, city guards do they also describe the norms for members of the organization along with the stat block of a squad or whatever positions within the organization?

I checked on the City Watch specifically. About 2 1/2 pages are devoted to the Watch. There are complete statblocks for a Typical Watch Guard, a Typical Watch Constable, and a Typical City Watch Captain. Uniforms and equipment are detailed. Basic tactics are discussed. Watchhouses are detailed, and are marked on the map. What the watch does when confronted with "Spells and Special Situations" is discussed. Corruption in the Watch is discussed.

It's a pretty in-depth book.

Quote from: blakkieP.S. I still think a ToC of sidebars along with descriptive sidebar titles really, really rocks. I wonder where Fanpro ripped the idea from. Because they didn't do it for the core SR4 book, and now that Street Magic has it I really miss it from the core book.  I think it might be one of those face palm ideas that has you saying "it is so great, why hasn't this been done since the advent of sidebars?" only when you go back to not having it there.

A lot of the sidebars in Ptolus simply highlight something from the text and refer to the page(s) that more can be found about the highlighted item. Other sidebars detail something found right in the main text beside the sidebar, so if you want to know about, say, Watchhouses, that sidebar is right there with the article about the Watch.

The table of contents in the book itself is OK, about 6 pages long, as is the index, about 3 pages long. The CD contains an expanded table of contents, which is 13 pages long, and 49 page (!) searchable glossary of locations in the city, with each entry having a brief description.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThe CD contains an expanded table of contents, which is 13 pages long, and 49 page (!) searchable glossary of locations in the city, with each entry having a brief description.

Sah-weet!  Oh man, I really didn't need to spend this cash but I'm going to just to read the damn thing.  Maybe I'll check with a friend I know that I'm pretty sure this would appeal to and do a split cost.

I do like that the PDF is coming out, and I'm comfortable enough with that medium that I'd be cool just buying that. So it going OOP isn't much of a fear for me.  But the colour art looked good enough to justify buying hardcopy.

Quote from: blakkieSah-weet!  Oh man, I really didn't need to spend this cash but I'm going to just to read the damn thing.  Maybe I'll check with a friend I know that I'm pretty sure this would appeal to and do a split cost.

I do like that the PDF is coming out, and I'm comfortable enough with that medium that I'd be cool just buying that. So it going OOP isn't much of a fear for me.  But the colour art looked good enough to justify buying hardcopy.

There is something about having the hardcopy that just can't be replicated by a pdf. I like pdfs, a lot, and have bought many of them. But Ptolus is one of those books I'm glad I bought. The sheer heft and beauty of the product gives it a certain...I dunno...can't think of a better word than "gravitas."

Quote from: blakkieSold!  Now to figure out which kid to sell into slavery so I can buy it.

You know, humans have two kidneys...

Quote from: JongWKYou know, humans have two kidneys...

Good idea! Better margin on parts than whole unit sales. :maniac: