One or more of your crazy kids tell me about True20.  What do you like/dislike about it?  How does it play?  All those sorts of questions.

Actually, I'd like to know how much similarity is bears to Mutants & Masterminds.  Am I correct in assuming that True20 is partially an outgrowth of the mechanics in M&M?

Thanks in advance.

Quote from: SlothropOne or more of your crazy kids tell me about True20.  What do you like/dislike about it?  How does it play?  All those sorts of questions.

Actually, I'd like to know how much similarity is bears to Mutants & Masterminds.  Am I correct in assuming that True20 is partially an outgrowth of the mechanics in M&M?

Thanks in advance.

I don't have time at the moment to go into great detail, but:

the good (for me):

• No minis needed to get max use out the game
• More flexible, easier to modiify thatn regular d20
• Magic System is nice
• a lttle bit more simple than D20
• everything you need in one book.

The bad:

• wound system isn't my thing
• Don't like the settings in the back of the book

Overall I think it is what D&D should have been.

Yes, the system in many ways is like M&M and I'm pretty sure that is where it started.

I'm not threadcrapping, but what would True20 do for me that C&C doesn't?  Does it feel a whole lot different than D&D, unlike C&C?  I mean, does it reallf feel different in gameplay than any other rules-light fantasy RPG?

Quote from: joewolzI'm not threadcrapping, but what would True20 do for me that C&C doesn't?  Does it feel a whole lot different than D&D, unlike C&C?  I mean, does it reallf feel different in gameplay than any other rules-light fantasy RPG?

I'm a big fan of both C&C and True20.

They do many things very differently.  True20 uses three very general classes (warrior, adept, and expert) and lets the players 'customise' their PCs through the selection of feats (4 at first level, 1 every level thereafter).  In contrast, C&C relies on a wider selection of 'archetypical' classes (fighter, barbarian, etc.).  Customisation in C&C is more limited, and is achieved primarily through the selection of the PC's 'primes' (a fighter with INT and CHA as his optional primes will look a lot different than a fighter with DEX and CON as his optional primes; however, those two C&C fighters will be more similar to each other, mechanically speaking, than two True20 warriors with completely different skill and feat selections).

The True20 combat system is very different from the systems found in any version of D&D (including C&C).  There are no 'hit points' in True20, if you are hit in combat you make a 'toughness save', etc.

Everything in True20 is accomplished via the d20.  You don't need other kinds of dice.

True20 does away with experience points.

True20's magic system is radically different from the one in D&D and C&C (viz. it is based on feats and skills, it causes fatigue, it does not use the 'Vancian' spell-slot system, etc.).  I like Vancian magic (unlike a lot of people), but True20's 'powers system' is a lot different.  I find it to be a refreshing change.

Overall, True20 is a logical development of some of the ideas found in d20, whereas C&C is an attempt to 'update' pre-3e A/D&D (using the d20 'higher-is-always-better' mechanic and the SIEGE system).

The games are both 'rules medium' (in contrast to 3e, which I consider 'rules heavy').  They simplify things in different ways.

If you want to see what 'standard' D&D (/C&C) classes would look like in True20, check out this product:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=7155&

Quote from: Mcrow... The bad:

• wound system isn't my thing
• Don't like the settings in the back of the book

I definitely agree with you about the four settings in the book (although the 'Caliphate Nights' one is okay; I wouldn't use it as written, but I could imagine borrowing stuff from it for a fantasy Arabian setting/culture).

As for the wound system, I'm not sure what I think about it.  I would be curious to know how the old-fashined 'hit point' system might be reintroduced into True20.

 

Quote from: Mcrow...
Yes, the system in many ways is like M&M and I'm pretty sure that is where it started.

I think the 'Generic Classes' concept was taken from the 3e Unearthed Arcana.

The magic system is from Kenson's Psychic Handbook.

Quote from: joewolzI'm not threadcrapping, but what would True20 do for me that C&C doesn't? Does it feel a whole lot different than D&D, unlike C&C? I mean, does it reallf feel different in gameplay than any other rules-light fantasy RPG?

True20 is also not just a fantasy game- it could be used for pretty much any genre that d20 is used for. I don't know C&C much, but it's pure old D&D-style fantasy isn't it?
 
True20 also strikes me as being more suitable for plugging-in other d20 products. This might not be your thing, but if it is, then I'm sure it'd be better to go with True20 for that purpose than C&C, with its retro stylings.

Quote from: JMcL63... True20 also strikes me as being more suitable for plugging-in other d20 products. This might not be your thing, but if it is, then I'm sure it'd be better to go with True20 for that purpose than C&C, with its retro stylings.

3e D&D can be adapted for either True20 or C&C with equal ease.  (C&C keeps the classes and, more or less, the magic system of D&D; in contrast, True20 keeps feats and skills).

For other d20 stuff, True20 would be a lot easier.

Thanks everyone!  I appreciate the answers to my question.  I still don't see the hype, but I've never had the pleasure of playing True20.

Quote from: joewolzThanks everyone!  I appreciate the answers to my question.  I still don't see the hype, but I've never had the pleasure of playing True20.

I don't get the hype either. I do think it is the best version of d20 for sure, but it is still d20 at the core. So a lot of the same people who don't like d20 won't like true 20, while a good number of people who don't like d20 do like C&C.

what ever works fo ya, I guess.

Quote from: joewolzThanks everyone!  I appreciate the answers to my question.  I still don't see the hype, but I've never had the pleasure of playing True20.

Well, it's a flexible universal system, all in 140 pages (the rules section of the core book).

Also, it (arguably) 'fixes' many of the things that people dislike about d20 (e.g. the need for a battlemat, hit points, etc.).

I'm not sure what you mean by 'hype'.  True20 seems to be attracting some committed fans, though, just as C&C is.

Could someone elaborate on the wound system?  I'm guessing that it's somewhat similar to how damage is resisted in Mutants & Masterminds, yes?

How does it work out in actual play?  Does it make combat more perilous than in a d20 game that uses hit points or the like?

I love True20 because it gives me, as both player and GM, the tools I need to recreate just about any character from any source I've yet encountered. The reduced classes, and turning the class features of other games into feats, means tons of flexibility in character design.

Although I don't mind the combat in DnD 3, True20's combat seems to flow more smoothly, and although we still use minis and battlemats, it's only because we want to, not because the rules revolve around it.

True20 also fixes the only aspect of any incarnation of DnD that I've never really liked, and that's the magic system. The "Vancian" system of DnD never allowed me to emulate magic that I've read about in my favorite books, or have seen in my favorite movies. True20's system does that, and more. Plus, if one really wanted to add in a "Vancian" style system to a True20 game, it can be done.

True20, while allowing for great magic items, doesn't rely on them to create or balance challenges to characters. The characters themselves are the epic part of the epic campaign, not their gear.

So far, the only complaint I have at all about True20 is it's use of a wealth system. Green Ronin really needed to use one though, because the game can be played using just about any genre ya want, and short of another whole book on just an economy system, a wealth system is the best tool around for adapting an economy system to a wide variety of genres. Once again I've found it very simple to just use the monetary system from DnD adapted for my BR campaign.

It's streamlined, yet still familiar. Simplified, yet still comprehensive. It's supremely adaptable and well designed. Pretty much all I need.

Quote from: SlothropCould someone elaborate on the wound system?  I'm guessing that it's somewhat similar to how damage is resisted in Mutants & Masterminds, yes?

How does it work out in actual play?  Does it make combat more perilous than in a d20 game that uses hit points or the like?

Well, your AC is Defense Bonus in True20, and it's just how hard you are to hit...the target number for an attack roll. Changes here are that the Defense Bonus takes in to account your skill in combat, and also how well you might be able to parry, either with a weapon or a shield. Then, things change a bit, weapons do a set amouont of damage, not a range. Also, once a hit has been determined, the damage is resisted by the target using a Toughness Save, that's where armor comes in. Then, what damage is left is applied to a damage track, instead of reducing HPs. This means everyone technically has the same number of HPs, but the difference between how skilled/sturdy a character is in True20 is in the defense and toughness of the character, instead of the HPs. Normally, toughness doesn't scale with a character's levels, allowing for a more lethal, yet realistic combat system that levels the field a bit between higher and lower levels combatants. There is an optional system in the True20 book that allows for escalating toughness, which would have the effect of creating more DnD-like "uber" characters at higher levels who can wade through the little guys with impunity, if that's what ya want.

Another nice feature of the damage track style system is it allows for injury penalties where a character's performance degrades the more injured they become.

I've found the combat system to be a little bit more deadly than DnD, especially when the characters gain a little levels and start entering the realm where DnD characters would be ultra-tough, and True20 characters are less so. We like it this way so we don't use the escalating toughness option.