Quote from: Erik BoielleCourse, in a really competitive game if you make an unbeatable general your opponent sends in a Ninja to take him out. If you hire bodyguards he goes to the senate and makes a treaty selling out the country. And if you make a politician he drives tanks through the senate.

:-)

It better be a squad of Ninja, since a single ninja turns out to be pretty fucking useless in the rules as written.  Besides, can a ninja have Iron?

Don't think so, fool

Quote from: SpikeIt better be a squad of Ninja, since a single ninja turns out to be pretty fucking useless in the rules as written.  Besides, can a ninja have Iron?

Its what the 'I corner him and stab him in the face' rules are for isn't it? The Ninja has already used his intrusion skills to corner his prey when he is armed only with a bathrobe and a toothbrush.

Quote from: Erik BoielleIts what the 'I corner him and stab him in the face' rules are for isn't it? The Ninja has already used his intrusion skills to corner his prey when he is armed only with a bathrobe and a toothbrush.

Ah, you forget that the Close Combat skill is just as relevant to toothbrushes as it is to Kama, and that bathrobes protect as well as pajamas. Ye Olde Combat God, with his Corvis and Crucix may not have Iron on his side, but he had to come up through the ranks.  And since there ain't no fancy maneuvers to be done in 'corner him and stab him in the face', that ninja has to bet on a single dice roll to win, and YOCG is gonna be grinning and rolling one hell of a dice pool... and unlike the Ninja, he'll have arthas.  yeah, Ninja's don't make it too far in Burning Empires, sad to say...:rolleyes:

Quote from: SpikeAh, you forget that the Close Combat skill is just as relevant to toothbrushes as it is to Kama, and that bathrobes protect as well as pajamas. Ye Olde Combat God, with his Corvis and Crucix may not have Iron on his side, but he had to come up through the ranks.  And since there ain't no fancy maneuvers to be done in 'corner him and stab him in the face', that ninja has to bet on a single dice roll to win, and YOCG is gonna be grinning and rolling one hell of a dice pool... and unlike the Ninja, he'll have arthas.  yeah, Ninja's don't make it too far in Burning Empires, sad to say...:rolleyes:

I've have to check the rules, but Ninja can also plant bombs in the waffle iron or put poisonous snakes in the sauna.

A ninja is going to have better skillz in close combat than a general who has spent them on generalship. And he'll have high tech monoedge mind controlled shurikien.

Never rule out the ninja.

Quote from: Erik BoielleI've have to check the rules, but Ninja can also plant bombs in the waffle iron or put poisonous snakes in the sauna.

A ninja is going to have better skillz in close combat than a general who has spent them on generalship. And he'll have high tech monoedge mind controlled shurikien.

Never rule out the ninja.

You forget that the General had to work his way up... BE doesn't allow for instant generalship. Once he was a lowly soldier, then maybe a sergeant, then anvil trained, then anvil elite, or maybe a stormtrooper... then, maybe then, he hit officer or lords-pilot ranks and started commanding troops, and he leads from the front. No ninja ever killed Patton, Patton would have stunned him with a string of curses that would have curled his mother's toes before capping him with a forty-five.

So it is with our Iron Lord stone badass YOCG.   YOCG parried mono-edge suriken with his toothbrush and uses the freshly sharpened stub to make Ninja-kabobs out of your upstart.  

MMMmmmm... Kabobs....


We totally need Luke to rule on this one. He's the GM after all...

See, I think the Ninja could use his Noble-wise skill to say that every year the General puts flowers on his mothers grave, and unless the General has an instinct that says he never goes anywhere without his bodyguard you could make a hiding roll to hide in the graveyard and then leap out and slice the bastards head off when he's distracted.

But, like I say, I'm not sure.

And the General can say he is leaving his bodyguard behind this once because he is visiting his mothers grave and get a point of currency for it. Or something.

Quote from: Erik BoielleSee, I think the Ninja could use his Noble-wise skill to say that every year the General puts flowers on his mothers grave, and unless the General has an instinct that says he never goes anywhere without his bodyguard you could make a hiding roll to hide in the graveyard and then leap out and slice the bastards head off when he's distracted.

But, like I say, I'm not sure.

And the General can say he is leaving his bodyguard behind this once because he is visiting his mothers grave and get a point of currency for it. Or something.

Well, we haven't got into the wises and instincts much, have we. I mean, what if the General has a Belief that graveyards are sacred and the Ninja is defiling that?  I mean, he's bound to have at least one instinct about being armed or armored...maybe he never goes anywhere without wearing his armor as a sort of badge of rank?  Certainly either bodyguards or a weapon would be instinct for him... and if he has bodyguards, then THEY would have an instinct relavent...

God forbid the general have 'assassin wise' as a skill!

Quote from: SpikeWell, we haven't got into the wises and instincts much, have we. I mean, what if the General has a Belief that graveyards are sacred and the Ninja is defiling that?  I mean, he's bound to have at least one instinct about being armed or armored...maybe he never goes anywhere without wearing his armor as a sort of badge of rank?  Certainly either bodyguards or a weapon would be instinct for him... and if he has bodyguards, then THEY would have an instinct relavent...

God forbid the general have 'assassin wise' as a skill!

Yeah, but if he's spent them all on anti assassin stuff you spend it on generalship and beat him in the field.

I'm just talking about the joys of proper games (do you specialise and leave weaknesses, or go general and get beaten by the specialist, or what?), and the potential of the setting for Ninja, which I rate as high.

Quote from: Erik BoielleYeah, but if he's spent them all on anti assasin stuff you spend it on generalship and beat him in the field.

I'm just talking about the joys of proper games (do you specialise and leave weaknesses, or go general and get beaten by the specialist, or what?), and the potential of the setting for Ninja, which I rate as high.

Of course, if Ninja are a problem, the General could always spend a few of his circle points on his own ninjas... which he could also use on the battlefeild, and if his ninja assosaition points aren't high enough, he could take a building scene to steal control of the local ninjas away from his enemies, turning the table.

But, really, from the sounds of things, Ninjas are almost more color than conflict.  And does the world really need colorful ninja?




As an aside: I think this is as close as I've ever come to a play by post game ever....

Quote from: SpikeThe Passage gets mentioned in the 'sources' part of the game a couple of times, but between its coverage in the game, and your revelation of what it was about, I get the feeling it was heavily marginalized.

I suppose this makes sense, insofar as both Faith Conquers and Sheva's War were multiple full issues in length whereas The Passage was serialized a few pages at a time in Dark Horse Presents and is therefore much, much shorter -- it isn't even a full story on its own, really.  Still, it's an example of what you could do with the game that doesn't involve the Vaylen but would be just as cool, IMO.

QuoteCertainly I could expect that a non-vaylen invasion themed game could be played with the invasion rules as written... with only a few minor disconnects along the way in reading the supporting advice.

Absolutely, and if I felt otherwise I wouldn't like the game nearly as much as I do.  I just wish the game weren't so narrowly focused as written.

QuoteWhat isn't supported, and I think should be given the scope, is more expansive themes, like conflicts already in place on a world (between political factions) without that backdrop. Or, as I would want to look at it were I playing, somehow pushing the campaign to unite the Iron Empires into a single body to throw off the threat of the Worm and recover some of their faded glory.  I think BIG when I play...

I think internecine conflicts on a world should be supported because those conflicts are consistent with the source material -- tensions between the Mundus Humanitas and various heretical sects, or between the church and the Empire, etc.  Again, an area where I think the narrow focus ill-serves the source material.  My preferences are broader, but tastes are what they are I suppose.

I think you could probably do your "unite the Iron Empires against the Vaylen threat" campaign though, insofar as doing so would probably entail one or two of the states conquering the others in a military campaign...

KoOS

QuoteAgain, an area where I think the narrow focus ill-serves the source material.

I don't really agree - I doubt anyone is actually likly to exhaust the possibilities of the Vaylen Invasion any time soon.

And on the off chance you did, a straight human vs. human conflict would just have no vaylen PCs or NPCs and only running Usurpation and maybe Civil War (nee Invasion) phases. Maybe with a tweak to the world builder.

But you wouldn't know that unless they presented the structure they have, so I think its well worth it.

--

Ninja are so not color.

We need a few extra life paths -

Born to Ninja
8yrs. Resources 0 Circles 1 Stat +1 M,P
Skillz 5pts. General
Traits 2pts. Mammal, Fast, Smooth

Raised by Ninja
5yrs. Resources 0 Circles 1 Stat +1 M,P
Skillz 5pts. Infiltration, Close Combat, Physical Training
Traits 2pts.

Apprentice Ninja
5yrs. Resources 1 Circles 1 Stat +1 M,P
Skillz 7pts. Infiltration, Close Combat, Ninja Weapons, Assasination-Wise, Noble-Wise
Traits 2pts. Cool, Strong, Powerful

Ninja
7yrs. Resources 1 Circles 1 Stat +1 M,P
Skillz 6pts. Infiltration, Close Combat, Ninja Weapons, Assasination-Wise, Noble-Wise
Traits 1pt. Totally Sweet
Requirements - Ninja Apprentice

Ninja Master
9yrs. Resources 1 Circles 1 Stat +1 M,P
Skillz 6pts. Magical Ninja Arts, Infiltration, Close Combat, Ninja Weapons, Assasination-Wise, Noble-Wise
Traits 1pt. Flyer
Requirements - Ninja

A bit of tech -
 
Cloaking Suit +2D Infiltration
Mono-Ninja-To As Kern sword but not heavy
Cybernetic Shuriken - As SCrEW but not unweildy

31 year old Human Male

Lifepaths - Born to Ninja, Raised By Ninja, Ninja Apprentice, Ninja, Ninja Master

Perception 5 Will 3 Agility 6 Speed 6  Power 3 Forte 3

Magical Ninja Arts 4, Infiltration 8, Close Combat 8, Assasination-Wise 7, Noble-Wise 7, Physical Training 3

Lets say its a usurpation phase - They have chosen Inundate (a series of paramilitary raids on our organisation) and We have Flak (an assaination campaign to decapitate their attacks) and its my building scene.

First Roll - Nobel-Wise to get time when target is alone and unarmed - probably Ob 6-7, so might need help or Artha to get this one.

Second Roll - Infiltration. My skill of 10 (8+2 for stealth suit) against their security - probably less, so have edge here.

Third Roll ICHASHITF attack.

My close combat skill is 8. An Anvil-Lord probably has 4. We both chose Hand to Hand, so I'm likly to score 4 to his 2. That gives me a hit at +2 to the Dice of Fate.

My damage is 1-2 H5 3 H10 4-6 H15

His Mortal Wound threshold is H10, and he isn't wearing armour. The H5 will injure him, possibly gaining him a new - Ninja Stab Wound trait, but the H10 or H15 leaves him mortally wounded, needing treatment and a point of Artha to survive, and leaving him at -3dice for the next two maneuvers and possible even deeper in hurt.

--

Learn. Learn from mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im59t_TLolI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=310dBpDbWzE