Preferred way to run combat? IC or OOC

mAcular Chaotic · March 12, 2015, 08:55:05 AM

The initiative thread gave me this idea. How do you run combat? Do you only let them talk in character, or do you let them puzzle over everybody's moves OOC together every turn like a bunch of generals in a war room?

I just saw one of the PAX games run by Chris Perkins and it seems he does almost a mix of this. They talk IC, but make tons of OOC jokes the entire time anyway.

ZWEIHÄNDER · March 12, 2015, 12:28:08 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819679The initiative thread gave me this idea. How do you run combat? Do you only let them talk in character, or do you let them puzzle over everybody's moves OOC together every turn like a bunch of generals in a war room?

I just saw one of the PAX games run by Chris Perkins and it seems he does almost a mix of this. They talk IC, but make tons of OOC jokes the entire time anyway.

We handle it like Chris Perkins and his group does. However, I disallow players from making OOC recommendations to the other players on what actions to take. Instead, I require them to speak IC if they wish to communicate to another player what actions to take in concert.

Saladman · March 12, 2015, 05:09:46 PM

I treat comments and suggestions made during combat as in character. I assume they're yelled out to be heard over battle, so nearby enemies can hear them as well.

That's not to say people are actively roleplaying when they talk about taking one guy out quickly or whatever. Occasionally they do, but more often not.

Bren · March 12, 2015, 05:20:18 PM

We've always had a mix of both. A PC may say something like "take that" after hitting a good blow or "Monsieur must learn to hold onto his sword if he wishes to have any chance to win a duel" after disarming a foe.

A player may give some suggestion to another player, especially in response to a player saying "Help, I don't know what to have do." Those exchanges have always been OOC.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;819702...I disallow players from making OOC recommendations to the other players on what actions to take. Instead, I require them to speak IC if they wish to communicate to another player what actions to take in concert.

Quote from: Saladman;819734I treat comments and suggestions made during combat as in character. I assume they're yelled out to be heard over battle, so nearby enemies can hear them as well.

Interesting. I may try a combination of these ideas for tactical suggestions and strategizing.

mAcular Chaotic · March 12, 2015, 10:46:15 PM

Quote from: Saladman;819734I treat comments and suggestions made during combat as in character. I assume they're yelled out to be heard over battle, so nearby enemies can hear them as well.

That's not to say people are actively roleplaying when they talk about taking one guy out quickly or whatever. Occasionally they do, but more often not.

Do you just let them plan OOC as much as possible then, or do you stop them after a minute or something?

Because the thing I noticed with this method is that the players will take like 30 minutes discussing the details of every possible move to death for each turn.

Ravenswing · March 13, 2015, 12:51:40 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819782Do you just let them plan OOC as much as possible then, or do you stop them after a minute or something?

Because the thing I noticed with this method is that the players will take like 30 minutes discussing the details of every possible move to death for each turn.

Oh hell no. No fucking way.

My combat rounds are three seconds long (and that's a HUGE liberalization from GURPS-standard), and I don't let them do mid-combat planning for squat, except in so far as you can shout a one-liner in three seconds or less. That I give people as much as ten seconds to decide what to DO in their rounds before I gong them is the concession to the players not actually being combat-trained personnel.

As far as banter goes, I've no objections to OOC wisecracks, but all conversation between the characters must be IC and out loud.

Bren · March 13, 2015, 07:31:22 AM

Quote from: Ravenswing;819802As far as banter goes, I've no objections to OOC wisecracks, but all conversation between the characters must be IC and out loud.

Other than passing a note* in the real world, how else other than out loud could conversation between characters occur?

* Or whatever the chat equivalent is for a secret note. And of course setting aside the possibly corner case of projective telepathy, mindspeech, or the equivalent where in game the speech is not occurring out loud though presumably players are speaking out loud or passing notes.

Ravenswing · March 13, 2015, 09:09:14 AM

Quote from: Bren;819838Other than passing a note* in the real world, how else other than out loud could conversation between characters occur?

You'd think, right? Swear to heaven, some players ... (gazes skyward)

jeff37923 · March 13, 2015, 09:20:25 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819679The initiative thread gave me this idea. How do you run combat? Do you only let them talk in character, or do you let them puzzle over everybody's moves OOC together every turn like a bunch of generals in a war room?

I just saw one of the PAX games run by Chris Perkins and it seems he does almost a mix of this. They talk IC, but make tons of OOC jokes the entire time anyway.

A mix. I usually respond in kind to what the Player does. If the Player has his character make the combat a dramatic dialogue in which arms and words are contested I will oblige them IC, or if they just OOC the whole thing that is also OK.

Saladman · March 13, 2015, 09:33:55 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819782Do you just let them plan OOC as much as possible then, or do you stop them after a minute or something?

Because the thing I noticed with this method is that the players will take like 30 minutes discussing the details of every possible move to death for each turn.

Usually I'll ask for a decision or held action after a couple of minutes. Unless you're exaggerating about 30 minutes, I'm fortunate to play with a group where the other players would be moving things along well before that time.

mAcular Chaotic · March 13, 2015, 10:27:48 AM

Quote from: Saladman;819854Usually I'll ask for a decision or held action after a couple of minutes. Unless you're exaggerating about 30 minutes, I'm fortunate to play with a group where the other players would be moving things along well before that time.

Well I mean, in this scenario, even if it's Character A's turn, everybody discusses it and it turns into a sort of combat-by-committee, so if I don't step in and ask for an answer they would go on debating the strategy for that turn for a while. Usually in those cases I would just review notes behind my screen or think of future moves until they get back to me, but who knows how long that can take. Rarely would one player feel confident enough to say, "This is my final answer," since the rest of the table would immediately raise the problems with their choice and then it would go back into debate.

dbm · March 13, 2015, 10:45:07 AM

We have a table convention of 'group think' which allows players to make suggestions to other players. It does devalue things like telepathic powers of communication but they are fairly rare in my experience.

If people start taking too long we just chivy them to hurry up. The GM only usually enforces IC-only comms when lack of communication is a significant factor (such as having the group split up without access to easy / quiet telecommunications).

It works for us, we aren't there for 'hard core' gaming, just to have fun with the game.

IggytheBorg · March 13, 2015, 07:14:17 PM

Those last two posts capture the flavor of what we've always done. I allow it, despite the way it detracts from realism, because some of the stuff they come up with is pretty amazing. It adds so much to the enjoyment of the game for both me and the players.

Ravenswing · March 14, 2015, 04:15:56 AM

Quote from: Saladman;819854Usually I'll ask for a decision or held action after a couple of minutes. Unless you're exaggerating about 30 minutes, I'm fortunate to play with a group where the other players would be moving things along well before that time.

My way is this:

GURPS combat being sequential, I call people in a predictable order (based on the characters' Speed). Therefore, everyone knows when they're coming up, and they've plenty of time to think about what to do. When it comes time for your action, short of asking me questions I need to answer -- rules interpretations, describing the NPC you're facing, the relative feasibility of a proposed action, that sort of thing -- you've got about five or six seconds to make up your mind. After that, I'll ask what you're doing, and wait about three or four more seconds.

At that point, I hold up a closed fist, and start to flick my fingers open one by one, a second apart. If I get to five, your character is standing there stupidly, jaw dropped, doing nothing. I don't think I've gonged more than a half-dozen people these last twenty years; usually, by the time I hit "three," the player blurts out some manner of quickie default action.

Omega · March 14, 2015, 08:48:00 AM

So far the players I have had tend not to plan ooc with eachother tactics. They usually plan in character tactics, (when they plan at all.) They do call out targets fairly often but it is as IC alerts rather than OOC.

Occasionally there will be a "That has concentration so you cant cast that other spell right now without dropping it." sorts of reminders. Which saves me having to.