I couldn't help but use that title....

Anyway, I was wondering about the general opinion of other people on this forum in both regards to rpg.net in terms of censorship and to the comment that RPGpundit made.

Now, I do understand that he does have a point in that censorship will occur by banning users from a given site but what I don't understand is how this is an inherently bad thing.  I mean, do you really want trolls?  No?  That's fine.  Do you want different opinions?  Sometimes, not always.  How do you, in gaming, censor your players or do you?

Note that I don't actually use rpg.net so I really don't pay attention to most things that go on over there.

Levi sums it up very well.  RPG.net, Nutkinland, or any other message board is not a 'free public forum'.  It's a place where people decided to host discussion.  They pay money to run these things.  They get to decide what kind of discussion is allowed on their board.  This has nothing to do with free speech.

It's a bit like if you go into a restraunt and started calling the owner an asshole in a loud tone of voice.  He'd tell you to stop, and if you persisted he'd throw you out.  If you came back and did it again, he might tell you to never come back again.  This does not interfere with your free speech - all he's doing is asserting his right to his property.  If you don't like it, open your own restraunt where you can call people assholes all you want.

And in fact, this is what RPGPundit has done with his blog.  He says whatever he wants and people want to hear it come and visit.  RPG.net is under no obligation to allow any kind of discussion that they don't like.  Nor is any other board.  There's no law that says all discussions must go on the same board.  If the management will let you talk about A and B but not C, go somewhere else to talk about C.

It really isn't all that complicated.

I have no doubt that the moderation at RPGNet is biased and heavy handed. I'm of the opinion that it was a much better site when it was unmoderated and wasn't owned by Skotos Tech Inc. The change of ownership brought money into the question, and with money everything changed.

However given the site's ownership, complaining about the resulting moderation is like complaining about the sky being blue. RPGNet is now what it is, and unless it was removed from corp ownership- the moderation won't change for the better. Indeed, IMO it will likely get even worse.

Another factor is the pure size of the population visiting the site. They often have more people *viewing* the Open forum than Nunkinland has total membership. Such traffic greatly increases any conflict turning what would be a couple of heated exchanges into raging flamewars.

And just to add this in, the lost of the Search feature in the fourms made their site rather worthless over the long term anyway.

If you aren't guilty of terrorism, why would you object to being searched, your messages opened, or your activities monitored? Do you have something to hide? Maybe we should pay more attention to you. This all sounds suspicious.

-mice

Quote from: gleichmanAnother factor is the pure size of the population visiting the site. They often have more people *viewing* the Open forum than Nunkinland has total membership. Such traffic greatly increases any conflict turning what would be a couple of heated exchanges into raging flamewars.

There's also the Internet Law Of Posting Quality, which states that the quality of discussion in a given message board is inversely proportional to the number of people posting to it.  Small boards don't move quickly but tend to generate interesting discussions, and there's less chance of idiots being members.  Now idiots normally don't realize they are idiots so they have a lot to say.  They'll quickly crap up every thread they come across, sending the whole board down a death spiral.

The only real way to keep it in check is with heavy moderation.  NKL has (and has always had in all its incarnations) a strong sense of self moderation, where disruptive users are mocked and ridiculed until they either stop being fucksticks or go away, leaving us to our superdimensional dork-fortress.  And when moderation comes it is usually capricious and lighthearted.  I was once tempbanned for a week from one of the forums because I used the word 'Dogpile' in an image macro when the mod was tired of it.  I think my favorite was Diaglo being banned from the games forum until he wrote a haiku.  Lasted for months.

The real extreme end of this is a board like Something Awful, which dwarfs most other internet communities.  SOmething like 70,000 members, 4,000 on at any given time.  They bad 6-10 users a day, usually.  And it pays off - SA produces some of the best comedy content out there and has some of the best forums.

Moderation is not evil, it's a good thing that keep boards from being overrun by idiots.

Quote from: MaddmanIt really isn't all that complicated.

No it's not.

It is however somewhat disappointing when there's no where else to go.

Quote from: flyingmiceIf you aren't guilty of terrorism, why would you object to being searched, your messages opened, or your activities monitored? Do you have something to hide? Maybe we should pay more attention to you. This all sounds suspicious.

-mice

Yes, because the government and people running a message board are exactly the same.  Hint: you don't have to visit a message board if you don't like their policies.

So is it more of a reflection of the issue of profit margins (and all that fun stuff associated with money) or a reflection of the sheer number of people that has required such a heavy-handed nature on rpg.net?  I can see both as a posibility but I'm not sure that they are necessarily related.

Quote from: gleichmanAnd just to add this in, the lost of the Search feature in the fourms made their site rather worthless over the long term anyway.

Considering how big that forums is, a search function would probably crash most computers anyway.

Quote from: FinairaConsidering how big that forums is, a search function would probably crash most computers anyway.

Hint: Go to google and do a search for your term plus "site:forums.rpg.net" and you can often find what you need.  Not as good as full searches, but it can usually get the job done.

Quote from: MaddmanThere's also the Internet Law Of Posting Quality.

Yes there is, which is what I was trying to say.

Quote from: MaddmanModeration is not evil, it's a good thing that keep boards from being overrun by idiots.

An evil neccessity is still an evil.

moderation - it's EVIL, eeeeee-villlll i tell you!  it's from the Devil Himself!

Quote from: MaddmanHint: Go to google and do a search for your term plus "site:forums.rpg.net" and you can often find what you need.  Not as good as full searches, but it can usually get the job done.

Sorry, doesn't work well enough to even attempt.

As for it crashing their servers, those things can be dealt with. If they don't want to spend the money to do so, that's fine. It just makes the site useless to me.

Quote from: BOZmoderation - it's EVIL, eeeeee-villlll i tell you!  it's from the Devil Himself!

So... Pooka and the Nutkins are like Satan and his demons? Cool!

Quote from: BOZmoderation - it's EVIL, eeeeee-villlll i tell you!  it's from the Devil Himself!

That explains a lot about Levi....now that you mention it....

Quote from: MaddmanLevi sums it up very well. RPG.net, Nutkinland, or any other message board is not a 'free public forum'. It's a place where people decided to host discussion. They pay money to run these things. They get to decide what kind of discussion is allowed on their board. This has nothing to do with free speech.

&

Quote from: MaddmanHint: Go to google and do a search for your term plus "site:forums.rpg.net" and you can often find what you need.  Not as good as full searches, but it can usually get the job done.

RPG.net belongs to a private company that asks its customers to donate money to keep going, even after they paid for a crippled service and have to bear with both banners and annoying intellitext ads. Something is definitely going wrong in there.