Quote from: He-Ra;1118010As my players have aged and gotten lazy, and games have shifted focus to accomodate that laziness, I regularly have conversations like this:

"So, you're all ready to delve into the Crypt of the Necromasher?"
"Yups!"
"Are you sure, guys? All you've brought is a roll of toilet paper, a damp sack and that bunch of feathers you decided was important enough to write on your sheet three sessions back."
"AH-YUPS!"
/smh

Change up to playing Doctor Who and give them all sonic screwdrivers?

Quote from: Shasarak;1117960There is also the third school of thought which is that you take your basic equipment with you and then improvise any additional equipment you might need as you go.

Take for example one poster who regretted that he forgot to buy chalk at Ye Olde ACME Shoppe who would be in School 1 and another poster who would improvise charcoal from a burnt torch who would be in School 3.

Or maybe another example.  Our heroes are stuck in an upstairs room and want to escape through the window:

School 1.  Either has Rope written on their sheet in which case they can use that rope to escape or does not have Rope so therefore can not escape.

School 2.  May or may not have rope but assumes that of course they would have had Rope so therefore the Schrodingers Rope appears just in time to be of use.

School 3.  Either has Rope already or looks around the room and uses the sheets on the bed to make a jury-rigged rope that can be used to escape from the room while also accepting that their bedsheet rope is neither as durable nor as straight as an ACME store bought rope.

My players generally go with School 1. which is the boy scout way - Be  prepared, as a primary concern, backed up by School 3. which is the application of common sense to every situation. Which in my experience is standard old school play and always was bitd.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1118001Sounds like you know my pain.

:mad: And what really chaps my hide is how people complain about the Fighter being so boring -- and the (Schroediger's) Wizard oh so flexible! -- and they deliberately ignore one of the Fighter's main strengths: proficiency in all martial gear. All it takes is some prep, coinage, packaging, and encumbrance room to solve many a problem.

But did you have to be so callous to the poor wilting barbarian's player's feelings? These snowflakes are trying, trying oh so hard! Gentle mockery, and shared gluten-free snacks, that's the way. Like a nursing foal, you have to coax them to their feet before life's predators eat them.

There is no such thing as a boring Fighter, but unfortunately sometimes Boring People, attempt to play a Fighter.:eek:

It's all too easy to say take a ranged weapon for the Fighter or melee types. First one has to make sure to be able to carry it and not be too heavily encumbered. In Pathfinder being too encumbered means moving much slower, AC penalties and skill penalties. Not sure if it is the same in earlier editions as it is years I played 1E and 2E. Second one hast hope the DM gives out enough treasure and access to such equipment. Third even with a ranged weapon the enemy has to be within bow range or not too far away or one receives  range penalties.

Now if one lucks out and has a DM who does not track Encumbrance than one can be a walking armory. Otherwise depending on the Str of the character it's one weapon, possibly one ranged, armor and shield. Sorry but I'm not taking encumbrance penalties for anyone at the table. Thst is non-negotiable or up for debate.

Unfortunately at least in 3.5 then continued into PF they msde the martial/caster disparity even worse. With the right player and proper choice of spells one can do both ranged and melee damage.

It's all too easy to say to get a ranged weapon when one cannit carry too much equipment.

Also do the gaming equivalent of reading the room. If one games with experienced gamers and none besides you takes ranged weapons then they get what they deserve. If it's new players instead of being a pretentious, insulting asswipe. Instead maybe educate the new players to the hobby. My first game was anything but bringing a bow. It was taking the best armor and biggest weapon and charge at the enemy. As at the time I did not know better. Fortunately instead of having jerks who seem to think thry know better than everyone else. I was taught to bring a weapon and tactics and more

Quote from: SHARK;1117851Have any of you had dealings with poorly-equipped groups of adventurers?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Punish them of course. If they don't conform to my arbitrary level of pedantry, I make sure they know they fucked up. If they don't describe going to the bathroom every 6 hours I make sure their characters suffer. When they sleep, I ask them to describe to me the exact angle of sleep otherwise I penalize them with nightmares. You don't describe to me how you drink your flask? Roll for choking hazards.

Honestly, 10-foot poles come from a time when dungeons were mainly filled with insane troll logic meant to destroy players on mass. If the average person wants that nowadays they can play something like Cat Mario or I wanna be the Guy.


Honestly, I have nothing against the hyper preparatory. It's just its a very time-consuming thing for a ton of piddly annoyances.

Quote from: ElBorak;1118024There is no such thing as a boring Fighter, but unfortunately sometimes Boring People, attempt to play a Fighter.:eek:

https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1461/36/1461365206743.png

Seriously grognard game design is so much about preserving the babies' bathwater in jars and providing them equal importance to the baby.

Quote from: sureshot;1118027It's all too easy to say take a ranged weapon for the Fighter or melee types. First one has to make sure to be able to carry it and not be too heavily encumbered. In Pathfinder being too encumbered means moving much slower, AC penalties and skill penalties. Not sure if it is the same in earlier editions as it is years I played 1E and 2E. Second one hast hope the DM gives out enough treasure and access to such equipment. Third even with a ranged weapon the enemy has to be within bow range or not too far away or one receives  range penalties.

Now if one lucks out and has a DM who does not track Encumbrance than one can be a walking armory. Otherwise depending on the Str of the character it's one weapon, possibly one ranged, armor and shield. Sorry but I'm not taking encumbrance penalties for anyone at the table. Thst is non-negotiable or up for debate.

Unfortunately at least in 3.5 then continued into PF they msde the martial/caster disparity even worse. With the right player and proper choice of spells one can do both ranged and melee damage.

It's all too easy to say to get a ranged weapon when one cannit carry too much equipment.

Also do the gaming equivalent of reading the room. If one games with experienced gamers and none besides you takes ranged weapons then they get what they deserve. If it's new players instead of being a pretentious, insulting asswipe. Instead maybe educate the new players to the hobby. My first game was anything but bringing a bow. It was taking the best armor and biggest weapon and charge at the enemy. As at the time I did not know better. Fortunately instead of having jerks who seem to think thry know better than everyone else. I was taught to bring a weapon and tactics and more

Yes, encumbrance and penalties for carrying too much has always been a thing. Keeping track of how much you are carrying is usually important in old-school play. But I'd rather be overencumbered than dead. And shooting with a range penalty is better than not being able to shoot at all.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118028Punish them of course. If they don't conform to my arbitrary level of pedantry, I make sure they know they fucked up. If they don't describe going to the bathroom every 6 hours I make sure their characters suffer. When they sleep, I ask them to describe to me the exact angle of sleep otherwise I penalize them with nightmares. You don't describe to me how you drink your flask? Roll for choking hazards.

Honestly, 10-foot poles come from a time when dungeons were mainly filled with insane troll logic meant to destroy players on mass. If the average person wants that nowadays they can play something like Cat Mario or I wanna be the Guy.


Honestly, I have nothing against the hyper preparatory. It's just its a very time-consuming thing for a ton of piddly annoyances.

Greetings!

Yeah, well, I don't know about arbitrary levels of pedantry, but the group I was adventuring with continued to suffer through the dungeon, and paid the price for lack of good judgement, planning, and being poorly equipped.

The group had no Rogue, amongst six or seven players, so the heavily trapped dungeon proceeded to punish the party ruthlessly. No 10-foot pole? Nope. No spears or Polearms, either. So the chewing and blood began. The Human Paladin, a Dwarf Cleric, and the Firbolg Barbarian groping their way blindly forward, being hammered and fucked every step of the way.

There was more than once where the Firbolg Barbarian's lack of a good ranged weapon cost the group potentially decisive gains. I asked the player, "Man, how could you not have gotten a good longbow? Your Firbolg Barbarian is 7'8"--he can practically fire a ballista by himself!" The Player just laughed and said he was being stupid and never thought of it.

Thankfully, over the next several sessions, the Firbolg did manage to get a hold of a Longbow and several quivers of arrows, which, combined with myself, now doubled our archery firepower, with immediate positive results. I encouraged the Firbolg player, and applauded him when his archery fire brought down fleeing enemies, or helped take out enemy spellcasters, and assisted in preventing enemies from escaping. It does get frustrating though when the group suffers, and can't accomplish A, or B, or C, because several players have been thoughtless and poorly equipped their characters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118028Punish them of course. If they don't conform to my arbitrary level of pedantry, I make sure they know they fucked up. If they don't describe going to the bathroom every 6 hours I make sure their characters suffer. When they sleep, I ask them to describe to me the exact angle of sleep otherwise I penalize them with nightmares. You don't describe to me how you drink your flask? Roll for choking hazards.

Honestly, 10-foot poles come from a time when dungeons were mainly filled with insane troll logic meant to destroy players on mass. If the average person wants that nowadays they can play something like Cat Mario or I wanna be the Guy.


Honestly, I have nothing against the hyper preparatory. It's just its a very time-consuming thing for a ton of piddly annoyances.

I know that if I played under the DM that you described I doubt that we would ever get to the dungeon because of the level of detail that I would be describing for my character.  By the time I finished with him he would never ask anyone else to describe the details of their characters bowel movements ever again.  

Quote from: SHARK;1118032Greetings!

Yeah, well, I don't know about arbitrary levels of pedantry, but the group I was adventuring with continued to suffer through the dungeon, and paid the price for lack of good judgement, planning, and being poorly equipped.

The group had no Rogue, amongst six or seven players, so the heavily trapped dungeon proceeded to punish the party ruthlessly. No 10-foot pole? Nope. No spears or Polearms, either. So the chewing and blood began. The Human Paladin, a Dwarf Cleric, and the Firbolg Barbarian groping their way blindly forward, being hammered and fucked every step of the way.

There was more than once where the Firbolg Barbarian's lack of a good ranged weapon cost the group potentially decisive gains. I asked the player, "Man, how could you not have gotten a good longbow? Your Firbolg Barbarian is 7'8"--he can practically fire a ballista by himself!" The Player just laughed and said he was being stupid and never thought of it.

Thankfully, over the next several sessions, the Firbolg did manage to get a hold of a Longbow and several quivers of arrows, which, combined with myself, now doubled our archery firepower, with immediate positive results. I encouraged the Firbolg player, and applauded him when his archery fire brought down fleeing enemies, or helped take out enemy spellcasters, and assisted in preventing enemies from escaping. It does get frustrating though when the group suffers, and can't accomplish A, or B, or C, because several players have been thoughtless and poorly equipped their characters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

So good-natured ball-busting and positive reinforcements produce results?

Whoda thunk it?

Quote from: SHARK;1118032Greetings!

Yeah, well, I don't know about arbitrary levels of pedantry, but the group I was adventuring with continued to suffer through the dungeon, and paid the price for lack of good judgement, planning, and being poorly equipped.

Did they prepare toilet paper? Increases the chances of disease!

The truth is that what counts as "Well Prepared" depends mostly on how pedantic the GM wants to be, and for that, there is no limit to said pedantry.

I always just saw 10 foot poles as the ultimate grognard item. Something that just requires your PCs to poke every inch and corner or be killed by an Animated wall, floor, ceiling, chest, staligmite, or some other ambush predator that existed purely as BS gotchas from a much more GM Vs Player hostile time.

Quote from: Shasarak;1118034I know that if I played under the DM that you described I doubt that we would ever get to the dungeon because of the level of detail that I would be describing for my character.  By the time I finished with him he would never ask anyone else to describe the details of their characters bowel movements ever again.  

You're not describing your character in-depth; your being well prepared, and Im rewarding or punishing you for said preparedness.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118044from a much more GM Vs Player hostile time.

As opposed to the current state of passive aggressive player vs. GM days of the present? Yeah, there are a lot of players that seem to think it is fun to fuck with the GM and the game in ways that only they find fun--and many current players will then cry when the GM responds with anything but acceptance of their stupidity. I think things like organized play encourage this bullshit.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118044Did they prepare toilet paper? Increases the chances of disease!

The truth is that what counts as "Well Prepared" depends mostly on how pedantic the GM wants to be, and for that, there is no limit to said pedantry.

I always just saw 10 foot poles as the ultimate grognard item. Something that just requires your PCs to poke every inch and corner or be killed by an Animated wall, floor, ceiling, chest, staligmite, or some other ambush predator that existed purely as BS gotchas from a much more GM Vs Player hostile time.




You're not describing your character in-depth; your being well prepared, and Im rewarding or punishing you for said preparedness.

Greetings!

*Laughs* Ahh, I see, my friend. *Increases the chances of disease!* That made me laugh. Nice.

I have always tended to see the 10-foot pole as just another useful tool, amongst many other things adventurers bring with them into dungeons. I haven't seen it as some symbol of DM hostility towards players. That's too bad you've had such negative experiences, Shrieking Banshee.

I have always thought that dungeons and campaigns in general, should be dangerous, and challenging, though not personally hateful towards player characters or otherwise operating in an unfair manner.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK;1118046I have always thought that dungeons and campaigns in general, should be dangerous, and challenging, though not personally hateful towards player characters or otherwise operating in an unfair manner.

If they were not dangerous, other less intrepid people would have already been there and collected anything of value.

The bodies of those that have tried before can be found, showing some of the dangers they encountered.

Quote from: rawma;1117885The poke everything with a 10 foot pole convention is just silly; you waste a lot of time poking things, and if the GM wants to screw you because you didn't poke things then they're the sort of GM who will screw you anyway.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1117886By "screw you" I think you mean "allow you to screw yourself" because the DM doesn't make your choices for you.

I meant what I said.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1117914But as an OD&D GM, I'll eat a party that's equipped itself too.

Case in point. The only reason to do the 10-foot pole dance is so you can complain about what Spinachcat eventually did anyway, not because it's going to save you.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1118028Punish them of course. If they don't conform to my arbitrary level of pedantry, I make sure they know they fucked up. If they don't describe going to the bathroom every 6 hours I make sure their characters suffer. When they sleep, I ask them to describe to me the exact angle of sleep otherwise I penalize them with nightmares. You don't describe to me how you drink your flask? Roll for choking hazards.

Honestly, 10-foot poles come from a time when dungeons were mainly filled with insane troll logic meant to destroy players on mass. If the average person wants that nowadays they can play something like Cat Mario or I wanna be the Guy.


Honestly, I have nothing against the hyper preparatory. It's just its a very time-consuming thing for a ton of piddly annoyances.

Quoted for truth.