Greetings!

I have noticed a curious trend amongst groups of players recently. In these Adventurer League groups, no one seems to believe in being properly equipped for expeditions into the Unknown, especially dungeons.

"Do you all have a 10' Pole?" Blank stares.

"How about flasks of oil?" "Um..."

"Anyone have some iron spikes?" Chirp, chirp, chirp.

I'm just always boggled at how poorly equipped many of the adventurers are. But they have an embroidered handkerchief! Or a fine bottle of wine, or a mirror carved with happy kitties on it.

There has been several occasions when the group has encountered creatures in the dungeon where we could have gained significant advantage against them--but no one had the right equipment. My own extra gear being swiftly used up in earlier encounters, or of insufficient quantity for the plan. Still, it would have been very helpful and advantageous if other members of the group had been well-equipped for the expedition!

Have any of you had dealings with poorly-equipped groups of adventurers?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

In 5e, I've noticed this mainly with beginning characters and that's largely because of the base method of determining starting gear. Generally, most characters only have 10-15 gp that they can freely spend. Now that is enough for many of the basics you mention, but you are correct that they still get overlooked. What makes this even more amusing is that most characters can easily carry another 50 lbs. of gear beyond what they start with (probably 100 lbs. more for a barbarian) without being encumbered.

This comes down to not having as many basic exploration challenges in modern dungeons (and many adventures are not even in dungeons). Even when such challenges are there, players assume that they don't need any "fancy gear" to get by them. If they have Athletics, they assume they can climb safely without any gear, and if they have Perception, they assume they don't need to tap ahead with a pole. And we all know what they say about assumptions...they make a TPK out'a the party (or something like that).

I see this thread as being similar to recent thoughts I've had about players these days never hiring on NPCs when in makes good sense to do so. Hirelings are, essentially, complex "gear" that helps with adventuring. The complex part of them just adds to the fun (if done right).

Linking to the discussion from the "who do you bring with you" thread... this is the exact sort of "we'll need something, but won't know what until we encounter it" situations that magic IS better for (vs. spending it on creating food... something you can plan on needing).

It's rare in our parties to NOT have someone who can conjure up certain amounts of basic gear like ropes, poles, spikes, oil, etc. as needed (within the limits of their magic) precisely because you're often not sure if you're going to need excavation, climbing, anti-trap tomb robbing or some other type of specialized equipment until you get where you're going.

As such, rope (always useful), a light source and a knife and/or handax (for chopping wood not combat) is about all members regularly bring into dungeons (and thieves tools and similar class-related tools if so skilled). They have magic to conjure the rest (or outright negate the need for it in the first place).

I'm a big believer in bringing along a bow saw, shovel, sledge hammer, pick axe, chisels, a wedge, and a drill.  Sure you'll want a mule or a hirling to carry the extra load or you can have the magic-user do it.  Well not in Rolemaster where they're taking casting penalties by the pound.  It's funny how many DMs don't want you modifiying or abusing the environment.

Isn't this where the "bag of equipment" comes in? Where the players roll for a chance that what they need is in the bag?

People assume there is no need to keep track of things that are rarely if ever needed.
That if it is important to "The Story" then, the character just has it.

Quote from: SHARK;1117851... a mirror carved with happy kitties on it.

To be fair, a mirror is awesome equipment.

Quote from: Greentongue;1117860Isn't this where the "bag of equipment" comes in? Where the players roll for a chance that what they need is in the bag?

People assume there is no need to keep track of things that are rarely if ever needed.
That if it is important to "The Story" then, the character just has it.

If it's not written on your character sheet the DM is well within their rights to say "no."

Well, I was that player in one of my current campaigns... I forgot to buy a lantern before leaving town on our first expedition. Whoopsie. It's dark out there, people.

I've only run a few games, but I usually tell players that they Just Get the adventuring toolkit that seems to be in most equipment charts: torches, backpack, water, rope.

That approach seems to have worked okay -- the handful of first timers kind of shrugged and noted it down, but a couple rooms into the dungeon discovered how useful that actually is. I think that might make the prep lesson "stickier" to get them thinking about prep ahead of time for later on.

Later on -- later in the campaign, or a new campaign with the now-more-experienced group -- they're on their own.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1117867Later on -- later in the campaign, or a new campaign with the now-more-experienced group -- they're on their own.

Do you account for new characters as opposed to new players?

Do they get whatever they can think of (from experience)?

Quote from: Greentongue;1117872Do you account for new characters as opposed to new players?

Do they get whatever they can think of (from experience)?

It hasn't come up much for me yet.

While they're in town, anything in the equipment table (common, non-magical stuff) is up for purchase. I'll listen to reasons why something more exotic would be in stock but it's not a guarantee. If they don't buy it and it's not in their inventory, they don't have it.

A new character by an experienced player I'd expect to be equipped and if they go out unequipped -- the couple of times this has ever happened -- I've left them on their own / relying on other party members until they get back to town to go shopping. When I've screwed this up, that's how I've played it for my own characters, too.

It actually makes a certain sort of sense really.

Starting groups will be both underfunded and possibly under-informed for the needs of adventuring. But after one or two delves they will probably start to learn what they need to bring along just in case.  Also depending on the type of adventuring. Even veteran adventurers may have never encountered a situation that needed a specific piece of gear.

Think of it as akin to the novice camper vs the experienced one.

Some novices will do some research and prepare as best they can.
Some will forge ahead with only the most rudimentary items.
Some will march off totally clueless.
etc.

Same with mapping. Or food and drink.

Something I recently started doing is including equipment categories right on the character sheet. For the most part, the categories used in the AD&D 1E PHB work best, though I do sub-divide "miscellaneous" a bit into Containers, Lighting, and Tools. The idea is by listing these out, the player at least stops and considers one by one whether some of the items that fit under the category are needed. I think it also makes it easier to locate on the sheet during the game, making it more likely to be used, which will make important equipment more likely to be selected in the future.

Quote from: SHARK;1117851Have any of you had dealings with poorly-equipped groups of adventurers?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have noticed that my players roll with the standard package of rope and torches and then just Macgyver up what they need from what ever is lying around.

I mean if you need a 10' pole then there is always something that you can use.

Quote from: Shasarak;1117881I have noticed that my players roll with the standard package of rope and torches and then just Macgyver up what they need from what ever is lying around.

I mean if you need a 10' pole then there is always something that you can use.

That's the belief of an unprepared player--or one that thinks they are in a narrative game. Sometimes you can only rely on what you bring with you and it's not the DM's job to provide you with a parachute when you take a fall for not having what you needed.

5e has several backpacks with different collections of common equipment. That's pretty handy. I can't recall a 5e game where we failed at anything because of being poorly equipped.

The poke everything with a 10 foot pole convention is just silly; you waste a lot of time poking things, and if the GM wants to screw you because you didn't poke things then they're the sort of GM who will screw you anyway.