How do you make long running campaigns instead of *** of the week?

I found out the best way is to have either have internal conflicts with factions competing for the same resources without being allowed to just kill each other ... or an evil mastermind behind an antagostic faction.

What do you think?

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749212How do you make long running campaigns instead of *** of the week?

I found out the best way is to have either have internal conflicts with factions competing for the same resources without being allowed to just kill each other ... or an evil mastermind behind an antagostic faction.

What do you think?

This can work, for sure. Sometimes, the players themselves make for the consistency of the campaign, in the way they go about their business and select their objectives from week to week, from instance. Or the particular location (think City by Night, Megadungeon, or at a larger scale, the World itself) the campaign is taking place in. It really depends what is the "gravitational pole" of the campaign, if you will. If it's a particular set of characters, then the campaign can crash and burn. Centering the campaign around a precise set of characters can be great fun, no doubt, but my point really is: It's only ONE possibility out of many, as far as tabletop RPGs are concerned. Keep that in mind.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749212How do you make long running campaigns instead of *** of the week?

I found out the best way is to have either have internal conflicts with factions competing for the same resources without being allowed to just kill each other ... or an evil mastermind behind an antagostic faction.

What do you think?

That sounds like a template for a specific class of circumstances.

What I do is focus on is fleshing out the locale in which the characters will be living. Adding detail to things where the players expressed interest. For example, a player who wants to play a member of the thieves guild and interact with the underworld will cause me to flesh out that aspect of the locale more than I would normally.

From that point what drives the campaign forward is the interaction between the players' goals for their characters and the various NPCs goals. Depending on the circumstance this could involved kingdom wide factions, or a single family of laborers in a tenement.

The players are free to whatever they want as their characters within the limits of their characters abilities and resources. After a few sessions I find player start investing in their character because they start investing in what they built. And have a desire to continue building on. Not just character progression, but the web of allies, material goods, and resources they acquire.

This effect is what gives my campaigns legs.

It does not however work with larger groups as my ability to focus on a single character diminishes as the group gets larger. For those campaigns, I rely on spectacle and pure showmanship.

The heart of the campaign is an interesting locale, like an orc infested forest, the dwarven city under the mountain, a huge sprawling manor house, etc. Along with the a easily understood hook. I use Dwarven Forge, along with deliberately crafting encounters what I know that will be crowd pleasers.

As long as the spectacle continue the campaign will have legs.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749212How do you make long running campaigns instead of *** of the week?

I found out the best way is to have either have internal conflicts with factions competing for the same resources without being allowed to just kill each other ... or an evil mastermind behind an antagostic faction.

What do you think?

I don't have time to do the Ben-"Megadungeon" thread style answer this deserves.  Because Long campaigns is what I think the most pure outcome of an RPG game is, and is what I do.
 I just put Miston on Hiatus, but that group started playing in 95.  So I'll take a 205 session campaign as long.  My Igbar group, still going very strong, started in 2002 and is stretching for the 160 session mark the first Sunday in June.  Online Steel Isle game went exactly 160 sessions and current Collegium Game has had 17 group sessions and another 31 Intermezzo sessions.

I have a talent and a style for the Long-term game.

That being all said, there are a lot of things...a lot of factors...that go into actually making this work.  What are you thinking in terms of 'Long'?

Quote from: Benoist;749217This can work, for sure. Sometimes, the players themselves make for the consistency of the campaign, in the way they go about their business and select their objectives from week to week, from instance. Or the particular location (think City by Night, Megadungeon, or at a larger scale, the World itself) the campaign is taking place in. It really depends what is the "gravitational pole" of the campaign, if you will. If it's a particular set of characters, then the campaign can crash and burn. Centering the campaign around a precise set of characters can be great fun, no doubt, but my point really is: It's only ONE possibility out of many, as far as tabletop RPGs are concerned. Keep that in mind.

Well, my new wod darkness campaigns become a bit like mystery of the week type of stuff. In the old games longer campaigns are usually about fighting the technocracy or the black spiral dancers. Or it's about political infighting for the same resources without actually being allowed to kill each other. In the new games the political infighting is even bigger with all those factions, but the big bad guys are optional and usually more straightforward to keep everyone in line.

Quote from: LordVreeg;749286I have a talent and a style for the Long-term game.

That being all said, there are a lot of things...a lot of factors...that go into actually making this work.  What are you thinking in terms of 'Long'?

Long is longer than a four or five session adventure. And then running another one without being related to the other one. Long is a few months, half a year, maybe a year.

It's a myth arc, instead of a xyz of the week thing.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749317It's a myth arc, instead of a xyz of the week thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a TV series term.

TV series create "myth arcs" or "mythologies" by stitching the "mysteries of the week" together.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749212How do you make long running campaigns instead of *** of the week?

I found out the best way is to have either have internal conflicts with factions competing for the same resources without being allowed to just kill each other ... or an evil mastermind behind an antagostic faction.

What do you think?

Introduce powerful foes or goals early (a lich, dragon hoard, lost dwarven city). Present lower-level organizations/locales that have resources of information needed to locate or equip themselves for the big goal. Give lots of options for how those lower-level organizations can be discovered, negotiated with, or defeated.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749317Long is longer than a four or five session adventure. And then running another one without being related to the other one. Long is a few months, half a year, maybe a year.

It's a myth arc, instead of a xyz of the week thing.

how often will you play?
how big a setting?  what kind of gameplay and power curve and lethality level?

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749315Well, my new wod darkness campaigns become a bit like mystery of the week type of stuff. In the old games longer campaigns are usually about fighting the technocracy or the black spiral dancers. Or it's about political infighting for the same resources without actually being allowed to kill each other. In the new games the political infighting is even bigger with all those factions, but the big bad guys are optional and usually more straightforward to keep everyone in line.

If you are a member of the City-State getting orders everyday then there going to be a "current mission" that is the focus. Which may wind up feeling like a monster of the week but that how life is when you getting order all the time.

If you have similar circumstances then that why your campaign feels like a strongly like mystery of the week.

Another possible source is that the goals of one or two players dominates the group. In which case again the campaigns can feel episodic because everybody focused on whatever those characters are obsessing about.

I could go on but I will need more information to help you break the episodic feel.

Back to the City Guard premise the key to make it feel more sandbox is to develop the recurring NPCs. Remember the players exist in a specific time and place that has a life of its own. If you keep rolling up generic mooks for each mission it going to feel episodic. But if you start introducing recurring NPCs that change and evolve then it will feel more like a sandbox.

For example suppose in session 3 there is a bust and among other things there are four mooks. Session 5 involves another bust and two of the mooks are recognized. The player ignore it and move on. Then in session 10, one of the mooks reappear again. One of the players take an interest like a cop would if he keeps busting a group of guys over and over again.

Obviously there is only so far in the level of detail you can go with this and keep things sane. But you don't need to add much in order to "flip the switch" on the players sense of immersion.

And generally once the players figure out that the average folks they encounters are "discoverable" they will starting interacting more if for no other reason to secure some type of advantage (or resolution).

Again specifics will require knowledge of the specific circumstances you are dealing with.

Finally the key to all this is too imagine, at each point, as if you are really there. What to you see, importantly who do you see. Why are those people there, what are they are doing. Will they show again. How are they effected by what transpired. Answering those question will propel the campaign forward and make it unfold in a natural way.

Death to preplanned "arc" or "story" or "plot."

I create a world full of cool places and people and things, add player characters, and see what happens.

Quote from: The Butcher;749322Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a TV series term.

TV series create "myth arcs" or "mythologies" by stitching the "mysteries of the week" together.

Yes, indeed. To me a myth arc is the same as an overarching plot. What I have is Supernatural without the war between heaven and hell in my games. When a quest resolves it all goes back to the default situation and starts over again instead of slowly evolving.

Quote from: LordVreeg;749346how often will you play?
how big a setting?  what kind of gameplay and power curve and lethality level?

Just run of the mill world of darkness. Think of one city with several districts and perhaps divided into several neighbourhoods. I don't really like giving a city 20-30 different neighbourhoods, because it's all extra work and it gives more of the same. I usually go for 5-6 districts, covering low, medium and high class residential areas as well as commercial (both office buildings and tourism) and industrial areas.

Those areas all have several buildings, such as clubs, restaurants, abandoned factories, warehouses, penthouses, skyscapers of corporations, city hall, police HQ etc.

Gameplay is pretty low key. The power level isn't as big as in the old wod and it's much more lethal.

Quote from: estar;749381If you are a member of the City-State getting orders everyday then there going to be a "current mission" that is the focus. Which may wind up feeling like a monster of the week but that how life is when you getting order all the time.

If you have similar circumstances then that why your campaign feels like a strongly like mystery of the week.

Yes this is the case.

Quote from: estar;749381Another possible source is that the goals of one or two players dominates the group. In which case again the campaigns can feel episodic because everybody focused on whatever those characters are obsessing about.

No this isn't it.

Quote from: estar;749381I could go on but I will need more information to help you break the episodic feel.

What do you need? Didn't we talk this over before in another topic?

Quote from: estar;749381Back to the City Guard premise the key to make it feel more sandbox is to develop the recurring NPCs. Remember the players exist in a specific time and place that has a life of its own. If you keep rolling up generic mooks for each mission it going to feel episodic. But if you start introducing recurring NPCs that change and evolve then it will feel more like a sandbox.

No there aren't any mooks. These things are pretty uncommon in the world of darkness. It's not "You get out of the village and suddenly there are five orcs. Fight!". WoD never was like that and never will. The city is populated mostly by people who works and live there. You can't go on a killing spree, because 1. Police 2. Your morality takes a nosedive 3. If you are a super, it's all about not drawing attention. They have laws. So police investigation will usually result in your head on a plate.

So what do we do then? Well, there isn't really a big epic conflict going as in the old games. It usually is about internal fighting without being allowed to chop up your opponents. Vampire is all covenant politics for example. I didn't really care much for that, so I went all dark mystery or occult investigation. My players are gumshoes who get assignments. Weird murders with imploded bodies, supernatural drugs who make you predict the future and then die, disappearing subway trains who show up later in an abondoned part of the subway, vampire who flee the city one day in the year and if they stay they never show up again. Stuff like that.

Estar's advice is pretty solid.

I'd like to add that a mission-of-the-week is an easy way to get a long game started with minimal upfront investment. If you just spend some time between games thinking about the consequences of the last mission's final result, you can use that as an opportunity for many further seeds.

Some bandits are in the woods. The players go and defeat them. Great. They get the reward, treasure and XP. Session over.

Now, some bandits got away. What are they doing? Do/did they have a boss? Do they need a new boss?  Who will they join with? Do they want revenge? Or just a better gig? Back in town, who benefitted the most from the bandits defeat? With the bandits out of the way, what are they going to do now? Do they have rivals? How do those rivals feel? Why are they rivals anyway? Do the players have new friends? Because they have new friends do they have new enemies? Who are all these new NPCs ? What else are those friends and putative enemies doing and how do the PC's fit into those agendas? etc.

Lots of speculate from what really could just be a generic wandering monster. Just keep asking yourself questions and the world fills itself in without a lot of effort. And with these details, it's not hard to come up with a bunch of hooks for further adventures.