Quote from: GavkenI wish some of you guys would come to my group. We have 8 players in the group but at times have trouble getting a GM. We have a few players who are poor GMs and I really like playing rather than GMing. However I have ended up GMing 6 different campaigns over the past 12 years because I have needed to take my turn. I really love playing and hate having to GM.

Gavin

What is the basic age of your group?  I see this a lot with younger players, and, in fact I could easily put together a group of 12-16 year olds to play.  Thing is I'm almost 40, and it took a long time to put together a group of my peers.  There just aren't that many older gamers out there...and I'm thinking the ones who stuck with it are mostly GMs.

Quote from: Geoff HallHow amenable would the group be to 2 gaming sessions a week?  Or, alternatively, how amenable would you be to 2 gaming sessions a week, one with this group, one with a group with you set-up as the GM?

Impossible.  We are all older gamers and the one day a week is often a bitch (with things coming up and games getting cancelled). That's why it's taking so long to get the current campaign done...and probably has a lot to do with the current GM not letting go of the reigns lightly.  You figure we play 3 games a month on average, if one or two of those were a different adventure he would only get to run his campaing 1 or 2 days a month.

Quote from: SettembriniPeople who don´t like to play either need better DMs, or have some issues that are not healthy for the hobby.

Well, it's neither for me.  The current GM is good, and I like being a player...but I also love GMing, have proven to be a pretty good one, and have a lot of creativity that needs to be expressed as a GM that I don't get to do as a player.

Quote from: pspahngrubman, is it possible for you to snatch a few of the players for a different night of gaming?  I did this a while back when I started with a new Sunday group.  I got a few players to play Star Wars WEG on Saturday night, then a few more heard how much fun we were having and they started showing up, and finally the GM gave in as well.  After a few weeks, he ended up liking it enough that he closed his game out and we played mine on both nights (until I had to end it, sadly).  

Anyway, for most of us, it's tough playing two nights a week, but if you're really jonesing to run a game, try floating the idea of a few one-shots instead of a whole campaign for the alternate night.  You'll get more people interested in the short term, and who knows what can happen?  

Pete

Again, it's a time thing for me.  If I had two nights a week I could game it wouldn't be a problem at all (and yes, all the players, including the current GM are more than willing to do this (play a game I GM on a different night), as it has come up before).  Unfortunately my choices are:

1)  Quit this group and start a new one (again)
2)  Hold out and hope the current campaign dries up or the GM does.
3)  Be subtle and keep offering to run this and that untill the point gets accross
4)  Be point blank and say, "hey, either I get to GM something soon or I've got to leave the group!".

Quote from: grubman1)  Quit this group and start a new one (again)
2)  Hold out and hope the current campaign dries up or the GM does.
3)  Be subtle and keep offering to run this and that untill the point gets accross
4)  Be point blank and say, "hey, either I get to GM something soon or I've got to leave the group!".

You need to ask for a minute before the next session. And you need to tell the whole group that you're not happy about having the same GM over and over again. Try to work out a schedule. How long has the other guy been the GM? You should take that into consideration.

If they aren't ok with it, or if they come back on their words, put some ads and ask around for new players. Make sure you don't quit this group by slamming the door, though. Tell these guys that you aren't coming back and you are putting something together. Maybe they will all join, maybe none will, maybe a few will. But you will still have them in your network and one day that might be useful.

I have to say that the find-a-new-group solution is a way of not addressing your problem with your current group.  A new group often is just different levels of dysfunction.  Find people you want to play with and discuss what you like and don't like about playing.  Fix as needed.

Quote from: GunslingerI have to say that the find-a-new-group solution is a way of not addressing your problem with your current group.  A new group often is just different levels of dysfunction.  Find people you want to play with and discuss what you like and don't like about playing.  Fix as needed.

I agree, up to a point. Sometimes, even after discussing things, you end up not being able to find a compromise. I've had these roadblocks in music, gaming and my professional life. And I think these people were great and communication was great. Some of them are still my friends. But we just couldn't work it out in a specific context.

So yeah, start with genuine discussions of the issues. But don't get to a compromise that makes one party miserable. If it can be worked out, cool. If not, too bad.

Quote from: SettembriniImperator:
Story-Whore GMs, who railroad and are unable to value other peoples input are a problem in our hobby.
And those guys will be the "DM-only" type.

Really ? These are the only kind of "GM -only" types out there. Story whore GMs (whatever the fuck this means), folks who railroad (and their players don't like it), and GMs who don't want input even though their players want to give some are examples of bad GMs not of GM-only types

QuoteBut there definitely are more reasons for not playing.
But the lack of wanting to play is troublesome.

Man, you are becoming weirder by the minute. Some folks don't find enjoyment in playing for various reasons. Get over yourself Sett.

QuoteA good DM is a DM who DMs the campaigns he´d like to be a player in.

Not really. As one type of gaming advice I suppose it's okay. Also when GMing you have to cater to various taste. IMO what you like as a player should be last on the list. Pay attention to what the players you currently have enjoy. It's not always about "me" Sett.

QuoteA bad GM is a GM who GMs because he can´t stand being a player.

This is just silly Swine talk. The trouble is folks who are playing in dysfunctional enviroments. Having someone who prefers to be a GM but not having the chance to is not very condusive to creating an enviroment which is fun for all. There is nothing wrong with GM only gamers. It causes trouble when this type of gamer is not having any fun. The best thing for this gamer to do, is find a group where he/she can GM. (Not that this is grubman's problem)

Edit in italics: Got to remember to be constructive.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Consonant DudeSometimes, even after discussing things, you end up not being able to find a compromise.

True, but 95% of the shit that happens at the gaming table is usually small stuff.  IME, the reason it becomes a problem is because players talk to each other about another players style.  They're afraid to address the person because they don't want to offend them because they're friends.  Also from my experience, mockery and sarcasm are not a good way to address small problems.

Quote from: Consonant DudeTry to work out a schedule.

A written schedule. Verbal contracts are great and all, but it's hard to amicably get past, "No, I don't remember us deciding that at all..." Write it down and put it some where that everyone has access to it, like a webpage or mailing list.

Seanchai

On the other hand I should confess that other GM's loathe me as a player too.

Quote from: grubmanWhat is the basic age of your group?  I see this a lot with younger players, and, in fact I could easily put together a group of 12-16 year olds to play.  Thing is I'm almost 40, and it took a long time to put together a group of my peers.  There just aren't that many older gamers out there...and I'm thinking the ones who stuck with it are mostly GMs.

Yeah, I've started noticing this as well.

When I played in high school (and even university to an extent) I prefered being a player.  I would GM the occasional one-shot but mostly I just played.  As I've grown older, I've become more interested in GMing.  I can't really say why... maybe because as GM I get to set the style of the GM a bit more.  Maybe I just feel like I need a greater creative outlet as an adult than as a teenager.  Who really knows?

I could pick up a stack of players by trolling the local university roleplaying clubs and/or I offered to run some D&D games.  But that's not my bag.  I know this is being age-ist... but I really don't think I want to play with 18 year olds :deflated:

Quote from: SeanchaiA written schedule. Verbal contracts are great and all, but it's hard to amicably get past, "No, I don't remember us deciding that at all..." Write it down and put it some where that everyone has access to it, like a webpage or mailing list.

Seanchai

The schedule, written or not, is pretty much a trap in this kind a situation where there are multiple people that want to sit as GM. Even if you up the playing from once to twice per week you still have a situation where you've got at least two week gaps between sessions of one kind of game.  Miss a single week and it becomes 3 weeks to a month between sessions. You tend to lose a lot of steam because you spend part of the session trying to remember where you were at in the campaign. Plus you've got to try keep straight what campaign is doing what which, because of how memory works, is tougher when you have all he same players at the table. That is if you can somehow arrange all the players to get together on a second night.

The other option is say, 6-month stints. But with 3 in rotation that's a year of waiting to play. And it still doesn't address the issue that you don't actually ever get to play what you really want. In fact it tends to work out that you play what you don't want and when you are GMing you've got players that are focused out a year ahead for when they get to not play what they want. Which makes for a year and a half rotation of suckage.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkI know this is being age-ist... but I really don't think I want to play with 18 year olds :deflated:

Why? Some of them can bring some serious eye-candy to the table! :hehe:

Quote from: blakkieWhy? Some of them can bring some serious eye-candy to the table! :hehe:

Well, you might think I'm crazy, but gaol-bait isn't really my style.  Besides, I don't think Mrs Funk would approve.