Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

I agree with this point of view.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

Greetings!

Yeah, I agree with you entirely, brother!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Our online Traveller group has a guy playing a female human, and my wife playing a male Aslan.

We forget sometimes the player isn't the sex of their character, which can be really funny. Not having cameras on during play probably contributes to it. The male is such a good voice actor and plays in-character and my wife plays in-character so well, I think it would not matter.

For those that don't know,  Aslan have sex-based division of labor in their society. Finance, management, and science, engineering, and mechanics not directly related to war are all "women's work".

i would not role play a character of the opposite sex (don't give a damn about gender - sorry, not sorry) that i am myself - for the simple reason that i have no personal experience to facilitate that. i have only been male in my life, and thus only know how that particular biological trait shapes ones inner self and expression thereof. but, if other people want to, i've no problem with that - provided they can make it work.

I play characters of the opposite sex any time I envision a female character. A couple of my players do (most stick to their own sex).

I don't feel like I need experience being female to play a female character since gender roles aren't a meaningful part of the games I play. My "maleness" doesn't come up when playing a man either.

I've also played black and asian characters, despite being neither of those. Seems no different to me.

Sure, the characters get mis-gendered at the table occasionally, but so what?

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

What you are describing is a player problem, not a problem with playing the opposite sex.    Could there be problem if a character is human and another player is playing an elf and the character wants to know what its like to have sex with an elf?  Yeah, that could go wrong.

Its up to the GM to prevent problems and let the player who wants to play a different sex know that if they cause problems or do something weird, they have to make another character.

I don't get gamers.  Playing an Elf or an Orc? No problem.  Playing someone of another sex? Are you kidding me?

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2024, 10:39:08 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

What you are describing is a player problem, not a problem with playing the opposite sex.    Could there be problem if a character is human and another player is playing an elf and the character wants to know what its like to have sex with an elf?  Yeah, that could go wrong.

Its up to the GM to prevent problems and let the player who wants to play a different sex know that if they cause problems or do something weird, they have to make another character.

I don't get gamers.  Playing an Elf or an Orc? No problem.  Playing someone of another sex? Are you kidding me?

Greetings!

Well, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I usually GM, so I have to do both by default. This means I usually give it a pass for players as long as they're not going lolicon squick.

When I get to play it entirely depends on concept and classes needed to fill any gaps in the party;

- If I'm rolling up a warrior, it'll be a man.

- If its someone relying on mental or social stats without magic, it'll be a man.

- If its a world full of superheroes, it'll be a man (though if it has rules for sidekicks, I'll probably give them a female tech support/overwatch-type character because sidekicks are usually a very point efficient way to get more mundane skills covered and I like the Yin-Yang/Mind-Body/Male-Female dichotomy conceptually).

- If its someone using magic in a world where magic is exceptionally powerful and has few/no downsides, I generally make it a woman.

I forget who said it, but I think I internalized the thinking which said that when you give men supernatural powers in stories they either need some sort of handicap (ex. a vampire protagonist who burns in sunlight, a frail elderly wizard) or to establish them at the bottom tier of even more powerful supernatural beings (ex. Harry Potter as a 1st year, a super in a world of supers). By contrast, giving women supernatural powers rarely requires this as readers subconsciously know they need that power just to hold their own physically against well-armed men and monsters.

So D&D where magic has no real downsides, if I have to roll up a spellcaster (Bard excepted; they have the 'subtle magics that might be more skill than power' exception and often have to solve physical violence with blades and armor) they are invariably women... their access to magic is the reason they can hold their own with warriors and others physically stronger than them. If I'm rolling just about anything else, it'll be a man.

Nobody cares. It's a game.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AMWell, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

I've never experienced any issues with that though admittedly most of the time it's a rare occurence even without any tactic restriction.  I've played with male players who played female characters (including 8 levels of female dwarf paladin myself during 3/3.5 as my only ever female character in 30+ years of gaming) and there was never an awkward moment.  Maybe it's because none of us in the multiple groups I'm referring to ever wanted romance in our roleplaying as that would seem to be the most potentially troublesome aspect.  We didn't need any "safety tools" or arbitrary woke restrictions on character creation to protect our feelings.  In my opinion, people who restrict other players by limiting that aspect of character creation are no better than the purple haired side shaved rainbow weirdos screeching about cultural appropriation in pop culture; they're just two sides of the same coin.   If an INDIVIDUAL proves to be not mature enough to play a certain character type then you sit down that one person and either ask them to change (themselves or the character) or leave; you don't collectively pre-punish everyone.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AM

Well, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

My experience is that the more mixed the sexes of the players, the more likely a player will be able to play a character of the opposite sex with little to no issues.  Certainly no worse than an elf or a dwarf or whatever, and often better than the more exotic options.  Of course, in a roughly equally mixed group of players, there is a reduced inclination to play opposites, since the party already has a good mix by default. 

In fact, most of my players, most of the time, will stick with the same sex when playing humans.  It's just easier in many cases, and it makes no difference to the mechanics in the systems I tend to run.  Where I see more flips is in races.  It's rare for anyone in our group to play a female dwarf, for example.  In any given campaign, I'm more likely to see a female elf (male or female player) than some of the other races.

The last factor is age.  For standard starting character ages, young adults to barely full adult, I'll see less flipping.  Very young or middle aged characters, much more likely.

But then, I only play with people that don't abuse those kind of options.  Even the teens that have played in our groups from time to time don't do the stupid stuff.

Edit:  Whenever I have asked a player why they decided to play a character a certain way, the answer is invariably something akin to "It just seemed right for some reason."  Sex of the character is just one aspect of that.  Name, personality, hair color, race, and so on, they had an image that grew in their mind and went with it.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AMIt's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

At the game store there are some men who want to play female characters, usually with high squeaky voices and reinforcing bad stereotypes. In practice I find that this only insults the females at the table, and they don't want to come back.

My games are pretty much gender neutral in that even with historical campaigns I don't give advantages or disadvantages to being a particular gender or ethnicity. (I don't mind giving stat bonuses for fantasy "races" like elves and orcs, however.) Play what you want, but don't be insulting.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AM
As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

Lots of players will role-play badly. There's no solving that. Gentle encouragement can help, as can just saying no to dumb shit -- but it doesn't make their portrayal good. In my experience, the sort of player who will role-play the opposite sex badly will also role-play their own sex badly.

But as Jason Coplen said, it's just a game. If the player doesn't win any Oscars for their portrayal, they still got to roll some dice, kill some monsters, and have fun. If I don't want sexual hijinx in the game, then I ban the hijinx regardless of the sex of the player. Sometimes it can be fun for players to be a Conan-like womanizing barbarian. I remember running the D20 Conan RPG years ago, and a female player got really into her male character and seducing women, and it was good fun. If it was out of tone for the game, then I'd block it for both male and female players.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AM
Greetings!

Well, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Funny, I have been in games and have run games where people have played characters of opposite sexes and there haven't been a problem.  For me, it's allowed until it gets abused and so far, no one has abused it.   If it becomes a problem, its a player issue, not an issue of playing the opposite sex.  I will just get rid of the player and they will be replaced in less then 24 hours.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2024, 12:36:52 PM
Nobody cares. It's a game.

Yeah I agree.  Don't know why it's such an issue.