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Have you ever had the displeasure of having to remove a player from your game?

What were your reasons? How did you go about it? How did it go?

I have had a few over the years.

1) One very nice guy had a bad skin condition that scabbed him up pretty bad. That was certainly forgivable but he had a habit of picking and EATING the scabs while we played. I warned him about it and he said it was a habit he had tried to break for years and couldn't. I had to tell him he wasn't welcome anymore. It just grossed us out.

2) A young kid about 18 joined our group at one point, goth looking kid - bleached white hair, eye makeup and black fingernails. You know the type. Again, not a problem in itself but when he was arrested (not convicted) of messing with juveniles in accordance with a local satanic cult group I let him know he couldn't come back. Maybe he was innocent, maybe he wasn't. Most of us had young children around, we weren't taking chances.

3) The last one was more difficult. Well educated guy, long history of gaming, pretty nice fellow but when he played he absolutely dominated the session. He took charge with or without the other player's consent. He shouted out what "They" were all doing without discussion or permission. He constantly turned the focus of every scene upon himself like launching into dialogue even when his character had no skill in oratory etc. It was funny at first, then mildly annoying and then just outright awful. A couple of my players threatened to quit if he didn't. I let him go and it was a pretty nasty scene. I actually got hatemail from the guy for weeks.

I did have to run off one player. Don't leer at my beautiful wife. Yes, I did get lucky enough to marry way out of my league, thanks very much!

I had to run off a DM once too. A long story involving solving a mystery at the beginning of the session. Obvious clues made it rather easy after all.

I can't recall ever running anyone off or really even needing or wanting to run someone off. Some people don't click with me or the group I'm with. I don't invite them back. Usually people that don't fit tend to wander off on their own without any extra help from me. And although you would probably never guess it from my posting style, in person I seem to project a degree of assertiveness, argumentativeness, and a level of comfort with confrontation that causes odd balls, misfits, and losers to hit the bricks without any need for special action on my part.

Not yet...

No kicking people out. Had a few ragequits.  All but one asked to come back.  Had a couple of "just don't invite back".  Most of the time I lose a player it's a hanger-on.  Someone who is only there because they came with someone else.  They usually choose not to come back, only once did they take the primary player with them.  It wasn't a great loss.   The player I regret losing the most was to Magic.  They were like semi-pro.

Not really. I tend to play with other expats and it's a small enough community that I'd know well beforehand if someone had a reputation that would make them unwelcome. There are plenty of those people around, but they tend to get run out of the entire country rather quickly. I play with locals as well, but for the most part they are students or friends of friends and if anything, are way more 'normal' than the expats.

That said...I played with a guy in Taiwan once who just asked for it. He dressed like Jesus and had the personal mannerisms of a Rasputin. I think it was the second session with that guy when we all started to smell urine. We were all sitting around a coffee table on pillows and that guy had pissed himself (God knows why, the toilet was 10 feet away) and didn't say anything. A couple of us took the guy outside and issued a rather stern ass-whupping and sent him on his way.

Only once really. A guy showed up piss drunk, sat down and started puking at the game table. Fortunately, one of my regular players grabbed the guy's book bag and shoved his head into it (which he quickly proceeded to fill with puke). When he finished he was immediately  escorted out of the house and sent on his way never to return.

Shemek

One guy I played with, he was a klepto.  He was the reason I started writing my name in all my books.  The final straw was when he stole a collector coin from my best friend and then tried to sell it back to him.  I booted him from my circle and that was that.

Then there was a guy someone in the group invited to game night.  He was OK until the first combat of the night started.  Then he unzipped trou and started stroking the sausage right there at the table.  And he acted like this was some perfectly normal stuff.  I don't remember what I said, but I managed to yell at him something to the effect  of to put his junk back in his pants and get the fuck out.  I've never been able to remember his name or who invited him, and no one else there that night has ever volunteered the information since then.

Quote from: Kellri;913886Not really. I tend to play with other expats and it's a small enough community that I'd know well beforehand if someone had a reputation that would make them unwelcome. There are plenty of those people around, but they tend to get run out of the entire country rather quickly. I play with locals as well, but for the most part they are students or friends of friends and if anything, are way more 'normal' than the expats.

That said...I played with a guy in Taiwan once who just asked for it. He dressed like Jesus and had the personal mannerisms of a Rasputin. I think it was the second session with that guy when we all started to smell urine. We were all sitting around a coffee table on pillows and that guy had pissed himself (God knows why, the toilet was 10 feet away) and didn't say anything. A couple of us took the guy outside and issued a rather stern ass-whupping and sent him on his way.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;913893Only once really. A guy showed up piss drunk, sat down and started puking at the game table. Fortunately, one of my regular players grabbed the guy's book bag and shoved his head into it (which he quickly proceeded to fill with puke). When he finished he was immediately  escorted out of the house and sent on his way never to return.

Shemek

Quote from: Gabriel2;913894One guy I played with, he was a klepto.  He was the reason I started writing my name in all my books.  The final straw was when he stole a collector coin from my best friend and then tried to sell it back to him.  I booted him from my circle and that was that.

Then there was a guy someone in the group invited to game night.  He was OK until the first combat of the night started.  Then he unzipped trou and started stroking the sausage right there at the table.  And he acted like this was some perfectly normal stuff.  I don't remember what I said, but I managed to yell at him something to the effect  of to put his junk back in his pants and get the fuck out.  I've never been able to remember his name or who invited him, and no one else there that night has ever volunteered the information since then.

I thought a dude undressing my wife with his eyes was bad... dadgum. You guys win.

Quote from: Gabriel2;913894Then there was a guy someone in the group invited to game night.  He was OK until the first combat of the night started.  Then he unzipped trou and started stroking the sausage right there at the table.  And he acted like this was some perfectly normal stuff.  I don't remember what I said, but I managed to yell at him something to the effect  of to put his junk back in his pants and get the fuck out.  I've never been able to remember his name or who invited him, and no one else there that night has ever volunteered the information since then.

Nooooo....nooooo...that can't....are you fucking kidding me?  I...this doesn't seem real...how did...(sigh)...that's incredible...

Quote from: Gabriel2;913894One guy I played with, he was a klepto.  He was the reason I started writing my name in all my books.  The final straw was when he stole a collector coin from my best friend and then tried to sell it back to him.  I booted him from my circle and that was that.

Then there was a guy someone in the group invited to game night.  He was OK until the first combat of the night started.  Then he unzipped trou and started stroking the sausage right there at the table.  And he acted like this was some perfectly normal stuff.  I don't remember what I said, but I managed to yell at him something to the effect  of to put his junk back in his pants and get the fuck out.  I've never been able to remember his name or who invited him, and no one else there that night has ever volunteered the information since then.

Ok thats like, I don't know. Wow

Quote from: rgrove0172;913897Ok thats like, I don't know. Wow

Making Big Spring look like gamer's paradise, right?

I had to tell one of my best friends to hit the bricks once because he just creeping out the other players. We're not close anymore, but I gave him as many chances as I absolutely could.

Quote from: Harlock;913901Making Big Spring look like gamer's paradise, right?

Yeah, I'm calling the scab eater back.

Ceased to invite one guy because he aggravates the other players with IC bullshit, and a couple others because of drama away from the gaming table (I game with friends and we hang out away from the game table a lot). But I don't recall kicking anyone out during a game.

I've never actually run players off, though one time I sorta nudged some folks away.

We were playing 4e and a semi-friend (we'd gamed at the shop a few times) and his wife just showed up out of the blue to play. They had characters (level 3ish? It was close enough), but were smashed, and brought a case of beers with them. They were, uh, not fun at the table.

They left their beers behind, and I "reminded" everyone that there's a "no drinking" rule on game night for a reason. They never came back after that.

I forgot about the guy that kept showing off nude selfies of his wife. We sent him packing. A year and a half was all we could take.

Usually the players I've had that don't fit in or are disruptive tend to disappear without any need of being chased off. I vet new players before even inviting them for a session - meeting them at a local coffee shop - so the freaks or the obnoxious don't get invited to my home.

The last time I had a disruptive player was around 2003. He looked down his nose at gamers that didn't meet his level of roleplaying skills - disliking newbie gamers; and, he had the tendency to create characters that didn't get along well with the other characters. His character for a Traveller20 campaign was so obnoxious and disagreeable that other characters were discussing a nonchalant way to space him out an airlock. He got the hint that things weren't working out and split from the group a few days after that session.

Quote from: Harlock;913895I thought a dude undressing my wife with his eyes was bad... dadgum. You guys win.

No man! The guy with the wanker at his gaming table is the "winner".
Jeez Louise, there would be some real ultra-violence if someone did this at one of my games.

Shemek

Never had to run anyone off from an FRP game, although...... Way back around 1980, I was DMing for a group of friends for AD&D. My wife's sister was one of the players, and the sister's character was a thief. Well, the party was in a situation where they might get involved in combat soon, so the party leader told that thief to carry the torch. The thief character refused! The party leader said that the thief should carry the torch since she she only needed one hand for her short sword, and wasn't carrying a shield in the other hand. Sounds reasonable, right? But then the sister gets all bent out of shape, takes off her shoes and throws them at the party leader! Then she stormed off. We didn't invite her to any more D&D sessions, and my wife never said a word about not inviting her sister back.

I had one interesting situation playing a boardgame way back in the 70s. While it wasn't running someone off, it was extremely satisfying, nonetheless. It was at a gamecon, and I was playing in a tournament game of the old (original 1960s version) Avalon Hill game "Stalingrad." I happened to be playing the Russians, and my young opponent played the Germans. As we're playing the game, my opponent (whom I had never seen before) starts going on and on about how the Germans were the master race, and how if Hitler had only done this or that differently he could have won the war, etc. At first I figured the guy was just doing that to get me off my game, sort of psychological warfare. But as the game went on, it seemed he was very serious about his comments. From time to time, guys playing at other nearby tables would look over at my opponent with wondering looks.

So, eventually, I won the game. But seeing as I had had my fill of the guy, instead of shaking hands, I slowly pushed my chair away from the table, stood up, grabbed my crotch and said, "I got yer master race right here!" Then I turned my head, bent over, and spat on the floor. My opponent then violently pushed his chair away from the table and stormed off, and as he left, the other guys who were sitting near us all stood up and applauded. It was quite the moment!

I guess I'm fortunate to have not had to play games with too many weirdos.

Rusty DM

I've been told that my membership policies for our private Warhammer 40k gaming club are 'restrictive', but they're designed to deter the worst kinds of players:  Bums, whiners, manchildren, people who can't control their kids, etc.  So, most of the worst types don't get 'asked to leave' so much as, like the title says, 'ran off at the door'.

I've genuinely had people get angry because I ask people to bring some scenery with them if they have it.  I am specific and say it doesn't have to be anything special- I've let someone bring in a painted Red Bull 4-pack box and some cleaned-up rocks.  I'm not picky.  But people have lashed out because they believe that as the 'host', I should be providing everything (despite providing the table, 90% of the scenery to include model buildings and the like, and the actual place to play).  The ones I usually end up 'running off' are the entitled ones.  Some of these folks have gone and started posting 'do not game with this guy' and dropping my name on some FLGS facebook page (which actually had people asking 'why' and brought two of our members over because they LIKED how restrictive it was).

One guy, I wouldn't say I 'ran him off', but I was playing with a dude at a FLGS and he couldn't focus on the game because like too many gamers- he was a shitty parent.  He thought he could bring two kids, the oldest of which was around 5-6 years old, to a store full of little 'toys' and they would sit still in a chair while he gamed.  There was only so much of him having to stop and tend to his kids that I could take.  I eventually said, "Sorry, I'm out of time and you've got a handful to deal with".  The dude was there 2 hours later when I came back to shop with a friend.

I had to ask someone to stop coming fairly recently.  He's not a bad guy really but he had some very disruptive habits the derailed and slowed down the game something awful.  When I asked to talk to him, he blew up and insisted that he was doing nothing wrong and the problem was with everyone else.  At that point, I asked him to stop coming since I didn't think talking to him would do any good.

Quote from: rgrove0172;913909I forgot about the guy that kept showing off nude selfies of his wife. We sent him packing. A year and a half was all we could take.

Guess she wasn't hot?

Quote from: yosemitemike;913917I had to ask someone to stop coming fairly recently.  He's not a bad guy really but he had some very disruptive habits the derailed and slowed down the game something awful.  When I asked to talk to him, he blew up and insisted that he was doing nothing wrong and the problem was with everyone else.  At that point, I asked him to stop coming since I didn't think talking to him would do any good.

I've noticed that when people are convinced that it's "Everyone else, not me" that it's a precursor to them being a nuisance with zero self-awareness.

There was a boardgaming situation in the 1980s where we sort of ran a player off. Back in the 1980s, we had 8 consecutive years of playing the board game "Speed Circuit." We ran 16 races a year, just like the real F1, although we had modified the original Speed Circuit rules and turned it into "Advanced Speed Circuit." For those who don't know the game, it simulates Formula One racing on a tabletop. Although it came in boardgame form with a typical boardgame size map and some small cheezy plastic "race cars," we painted the various tracks on bedsheets and modifed Hot Wheels 1/64 scale open-wheel race cars to look like the real McLarens, Ferraris, etc, of Formula One. We also had 12 to 20 drivers at most races.

In Speed Circuit, everyone has to plot their next move simultaneously (and secretly). Then, when all players have written down their move, they all reveal their speed. For each increment of 20 mph, your car moves one space on the track. You have to slow down and obey the speed limits in various corners, although if you go through a corner faster than the speed limit, you can either burn "wear" points (which simulates using up your brakes and tires), or roll 2d6 and chance spinning out or crashing. We came up with the concept of buying "dice roll modifiers" when you built your car before playing the game, but in the end you only have so many wear points and DRMs. When you run out of wear points, you can still exceed the speed in a corner by no more than 20 mph, and you have to roll dice.

So, we used to use the "honor system" where each player would secretly check off on their car sheet for every wear and DRM they used. Except, some of us started having strong suspicions that some players weren't marking off everything they should have marked off. One guy, in particular, won the championship one season, winning about half of the races. Ordinarily, that should be about impossible as most players were of equal skill, and the cars were about the same, etc. So the next season, the same guy is leading in the points standing about halfway through the season. Another player and myself decided to secretly audit the suspect points leader. We two auditors sat on opposite sides of the table so we couldn't communicate, and every time the points leader used a wear point or DRM, we checked it off on special sheets we had made.

So halfway through that next race, the points leader is leading by a small margin, and he is going into a corner fast enough so that he will have to use 2 wear points and roll for a chance (60 mph over the speed limit in a corner is as fast as you can go in the game). So he is about to roll for his chance roll, and I ask him, "Is this a modified roll?" He said yes, it was. I then told him that he had already used all of his dice modifiers! That got the attention of everyone else at the table. Then my fellow auditor from across the table chimed in with, "I counted that he already used one too many DRMs!" After a moment's pause, someone else asked, "Are you accusing him (the points leader) of cheating?" I said "Damn straight!" So, the accused guy takes an unmodified roll (1 in 6 chance of crashing as opposed to a 1 in 36 chance of crashing when using a DRM), and he crashes. He never said a word in his own defense, but merely got up and left the table. He never came back, either.

In turns out that same cheater was playing in a Napoleonic boardgame "Empires in Arms" where you had to raise money through taxes, then purchase military units, etc. Some of the other Speed Circuit folks were in that other game with the cheater, and those other folks then audited the cheater in the other game. They found the cheater had raised way more money than he possibly could have done legally, and that he bought more military units than he could have bought with the money he did raise! So the other folks kicked that cheater out of that game. I never saw that cheater at any other local gaming events after that.

Our Speed Circuit game then adopted the measure of using poker chips for wear and DRMs. Before each race, you were doled out so many chips for wear, and so many of a different color of chips for DRMs. Then, when you used a wear or DRM, you had to throw a chip into a box in the middle of the table. We also used small boxes that personal checks came into to store the chips for each driver, as you didn't want opponents to know when you were running low on chips. Never had a problem with cheaters after that. If someone used a wear or DRM and didn't throw in a chip, at least 6 other players would yell out, "throw in your chip(s)!" so nobody could get away with not throwing in a chip when they should have.

Rusty DM

Ive been sorely tempted a few times as mentioned in other threads. But usually have still run the campaigns to conclusion.

As admin on a RP site I have though just stopped dealing with a few artists I used to RP with because they turned out to be crooks. I also cut off one of the designers for Natural Selection because he was a neo-nazi. Banned another when he he was telling me about how him and his buddies were going to beat up a kid at a con. And so on.

I saw one DM and a player in a group I was part of get into an argument that ended with the player storming out of the house and the DM burning the players character sheet. Suffice to say that was it.

But over on BGG theres a thread that began with this. Jeebus Christ!

QuoteApologies in advance as I'm sure this topic is discussed frequently, but I wanted to get input on my experience.

How do you deal with challenging players?

You don't need to read the below to answer the question, but it provides context around what I mean by "challenging players"?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Background - One reason I left DMing long ago was because I DM'ed for a group that had a player named Doug (places and names changed to protect the innocent). Doug was a funny, charismatic, outgoing, intelligent, charming, loyal, and friendly guy. But Doug was also an (censored).

Upon meeting someone for the first time, Doug would often work to verbally provoke the person. Passionate about the Yankees? Doug's going to tell you ten reasons why the Yankee's suck. Doug loved finding people's buttons. It's how he got to know someone, measured them up, and assessed a person's sense of humor. Once he found a person's buttons he would back off and generally be a great guy. He'd push people's buttons for laughs, but rarely, if ever, to be mean. If someone was particularly sensitive about something, he generally wouldn't "go there" ever again. Some people met Doug and hated him forever. Others got past his initial provocations and then loved him. My DM group and I were in the second group.

Being a DM for Doug was challenging. I'll give you an example to illustrate the challenges of DM'ing for Doug.

I prepared a detailed campaign over the course of weeks, and I had the players make a group of new characters. Doug created a Lawful Good Paladin. The others created various Good aligned characters.

I start the group in a new land on the docks of a big city in the middle of the day. The area bustles with laborers loading and unloading from the various ships. A Halfling man is directing the workers. I set the scene and I'm about to send the players the hook when Doug speaks up.

Doug (Lawful Good Paladin): What are the people loading and unloading?
Me (DM): Various trade goods in crates and barrels. Sacks of flour. That type of stuff.
Doug: Oh, I am so taking a sack of flour. I need it. I need flour.
Me (caught off guard): Really?
Doug: Yes. I grab the nearest sack of flour. I'll be like walking around the dungeon with a big 'ole sack of flour over my shoulders. The monsters will be like, "what is he carrying? Is that a sack of flour?!?!"
Other Players: laugh
Me (thinking): Ok. You grab the flour and the Halfling starts shouting at you. He appears like he may be in charge of the cargo. He runs up to you and tells you to put the flour down.
Doug: Does he have any weapons?
Me (failing to think of any reason why the Halfling work manager would have a weapon): No.
Doug: I stab him in the face. With my sword. I just stab him in the face.
Me: Really?
Doug:
Other Players: laugh
Doug:
Other Players: laugh

I tell the players I need a minute to prepare what happens next. They all continue laughing and riffing on the murder of the Halfling and the Paladin inexplicably carrying around a sack of flour as he adventures.

Having not prepared for this contingency, I reason that the docks would be relatively safe for work because city guards would be in the area. Given the shouts and commotion, I reason that a guard likely would have seen the murder of the Halfling manager. They probably knew the Halfling personally since they worked together at the docks. The shocking and brazen murder would incense the guards. I reason that the city guards would be fairly experienced from spending their lives working in a big city, so I draw up their stats which are significantly higher than the entry level characters of the players.

Me (DM): An alarms sounds, someone blowing a whistle. You see city guards mobilizing and coming towards you. What do you do?
Doug: I search the Halfling. Does he have any gold?
Other Players: laugh
Me: No. All you find is his lunch wrapped in parchment in his pouch.
Doug: I take it out and eat it.
Other Players: laugh
Me: Ok. You eat the lunch. Six city guards arrive, looking furious. They have their weapons drawn and they tell you all that you are under arrest.
Frank (one of the other players - Chaotic Good Wizard): angry What? Why am I under arrest?
Me: Are you asking me or the guards?
Frank: You. I'm not with him.
Me: You are all together. It appears the city guards think you are with the Paladin.
Jim (another one of the other players - Neutral Good Ranger): angry No, that is bullshit. We are not with him.
Me: Are you telling me or the guards?
Jim: You. Why would the guards think we are with Doug? Our characters haven't even talked to Doug yet. Our characters don't even know him yet.
Me: It appears the city guards think you are all together. Maybe it is because they see a group of outsiders, together on the dock, all carrying weapons. Are you going to try to talk to the guards?
Frank: angryNo, that's not fair.
Jim: angryThat's bullshit.
Doug: Screw it guys. Let's just kill these pigs.

The players agree to immediately launch into a fight with the six guards. It quickly becomes apparent that the players brand new characters are outclassed by the city guards, and the players' moods start to sour. They begin to argue about the rules - Doug wants to be able to do a double scissor kick at two guards and sword stab a third (all while wearing full plate armor). Rather than get bogged down in rules arguments, I relent and allow it. Still, the players are losing the fight. The players shift to arguing that lowly city guards shouldn't be this tough.

I position the guards poorly so the players have an opportunity to escape if they disengage and run. Despite my hints, the players are pissed off by the situation and decide to fight to the death. Which they do.

As the last player character falls dead, they all agree that my campaign sucks. They now have a litany of reasons centered around the "unrealistic" behavior of the city guards. By this time, even the events of the play session start to get re-written. They argue that as DM, I never gave them a chance to talk to the guards or do anything except fight.

I offer to do a reboot. Since we just started playing, the characters can start the campaign over. But Frank and Jim decline. If the city guards are this "unrealistic", they have no interest in the material I actually prepared for the campaign. Doug is the lone dissenter. He wants to play again. He says he wants to kill the Halfling manager with the sack of flour this time. He describes crushing the little guy with a giant sack of flour, bringing some laughs. But Jim and Frank are done.

I know this may seem extreme, but it is a fictionalized account of why I stopped DM'ing and playing RPGs altogether. I couldn't quite understand what my buddies wanted out of a game as players, and I didn't know how to DM for them. I'm fairly certain Frank and Jim would have enjoyed the material I worked so hard to prepare, but Doug would always pull the story in absurd directions.

I do know that Doug enjoyed seeing me squirm. It was one of my buttons he could push for laughs. I was the "unflappable" member of our group that he couldn't bait with his usual antics.

How do you deal with challenging players like Doug? What lesson should I have learned from this experience? Was quitting RPG's the answer?

Quote from: Crüesader;913920I've noticed that when people are convinced that it's "Everyone else, not me" that it's a precursor to them being a nuisance with zero self-awareness.

They are simply impossible to deal with rationally.  Because they are convinced that any problem must be caused by someone else, it's impossible to get through to them or get them to consider changing their behavior.  They become completely impenetrable and intractable.

Don't play with assholes.

Okay, we're done here.  Somebody fetch me a beer.

Get your own beer.

I think I still have that case they left...I don't even drink the stuff.

There was the guy who would not quit hitting on the very engaged and unavailable only female player in the group. The same day that he was thrown out of the group, she sent us an email saying that she felt too uncomfortable afterwards to keep playing. In response to all of the preceeding, he threatened suicide. She and I still remain friends, but she rarely games anymore.

There was the guy who claimed to be an expert experienced gamer, who fucked up so badly the first session that his mindless action killed off two other player characters. He had just pissed everybody off, and so was asked to leave.

There was the family unit which included an autistic boy. The father kept messing with his son's character and trying to be a spotlight hog. He also was jealous that his wife, who had never played before, was doing a better job than he was. It was just kind of creepy bad. They dropped out of the group without any heartache from the rest of us.

I've never had to actually ask someone to leave, but I have had a couple problem players who disappeared from my games just as I was getting sufficiently tired of their rules-lawyering that I was starting to think about making that request.  In one case, I heard later through the grapevine that he'd left because he didn't like my position on how I handle PC death, even though no PC had ever actually died in the several months he'd been playing with me.  The other, I don't know the actual reason, but he disappeared without a word at exactly the time that the rest of us decided to try running a couple sessions (of the same campaign) using a different rules system, so I assume that he was just unwilling to try the new system.

I do mostly miniature wargames these days (it's harder to find a good group of players for an RPG when you travel as frequently as I do- it's quite easy to roll up with a box of minis and find a battle at the FLGS in a random city).  So I have to ask, what counts as 'run off'?  I posted the other events earlier.

Incident:

I was playing at a store many, many years ago with an Imperial Guard army.  I was playing against a guy that wasn't filthy, but he certainly -looked- gross (obese, unshaven, poor grooming, unkempt shoulder-length hair, ill-fitting clothing that looked worn out).  I know this sounds pompous to point out, but the truth of the matter is that this guy had SEVERAL boxes of professionally-painted and high-end minis ('Forge World' was pricey for a reason back then).  I will call him Neckfat.

Neckfat was kind of rude, not very chatty, and I could tell he was a WAAC (Win At All Costs) player.  When he asked if I wanted a game, I was delighted- I was an Imperial Guard rookie.  So he watches me lay down my minis- and then proceeds to put down some Chaos Daemons (mostly Nurgle).  At this point in time, Daemons were outright BROKEN and absurdly hard to beat unless you built for them (fucking Matt Ward).  I knew I'd lose, but the first step at being really good at something is to be really lousy at it- so I had to learn, and I don't mind getting my ass outright handed to me as long as I can learn what something can do, what I should do, and what I shouldn't do.  
 
Neckfat started by complaining that two of my Leman Russ tanks were different colors- but I'd explained that one was a gift and was a used tank.  He then proceeded to interrogate me about why I'd modified certain models, etc.  Nothing absurd, but he just couldn't grasp that I kinda wanted a Commissar with a gas mask even though my dudes were Catachan.   One guy was like, "just play him, man- he's new and we need new players".  This guy from the peanut gallery was essential later...

Truthfully, I had a few lucky rolls.   I took out some of his stuff and I was pleased, but I knew the ass-whoopin' was on its way.  In my second turn, all he does is start double-checking EVERYTHING I do to absurd degrees (checking his codex, MY Codex, the rules, etc.) and it started becoming annoying.  He was actually winning- I'd just killed a handful of his Plaguebearers.  It got so frustrating and ate so much time, I just needed to breathe.  I was like, "Dude, can I go take a piss at the end of this turn?" He nodded and grunted, and when I finally got through the turn- I stepped away.  I didn't have to piss, I just needed to breathe and calm myself because this dude was getting on my nerves.

Lo and behold, when I return- Neckfat has his army packed up and he's scrambling to get all his boxes together.  In his stuffed nasal and pretentious tone of voice, he says: "I don't play with cheaters.  He's using loaded dice!" He bellowed the last part loud, loud enough everyone in the store looked up and his neckfat jiggled.  The owner of this store, a really kind Polynesian man that used to tuck extra bits and dice in peoples' bags, walked over and asked "[Crüesader], may I see your dice?  I just want to see if you may have bought the wrong type of something by accident."  I nodded, and went to look for mine on the little rolling cart that the man provided to every table (each held scenery, tape measures, laser pointers, etc.).  My dice were gone.

Keep in mind, these dice were a mix-match batch, but a good chunk of them were from Circus Circus, the Casino in Vegas.

Me and at least three people looked all over for the dice, and I even allowed them to look in my little gym bag for the dice and turned out my pockets. Neckfat, already at the door goes, "He probably flushed them down the toilet!" And one guy- the dude from before goes, "Hey man, just in case can you check your boxes and make sure you didn't accidentally grab his dice when you gathered your things?

Neckfat's eyes go wide, and he turns and bolts.  Before any of us can realize what's happened, he's speeding through a parking lot.  

Dude accused me of cheating and stole my dice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the flipside, I've had groups run ME off- not asking me to leave, but certain things have irked me to the point where I no longer wanted to play with them.

I played with a group of people in an game that absolutely could not stop arguing, and the GM had no balls.  People would sit there and bicker about the rules, and nothing could progress.  My first red flag was that they were arguing in my character creation about character creation, and I ended up having to take the books and go to another room to finish the process.  It got to a point where we'd had ONE monster encounter in my first mission and we'd been going for three hours.  I went to piss, set the alarm on my phone to a ring- and then sat down and used the phone ringing as an excuse- "Sorry guys, that was my roommate and he's locked out of the house.  I need to go let him in."  I seriously never went back.

I went to a 40k tournament once in one of the cities I traveled to.  I looked it up online, and spoke to the guy running it that owned the store.  I explained that I was traveling into town, and I wired him my admission fee and he said that was all I needed.  When I showed up to the recreation center, I'd just left a seminar and was wearing a shirt and tie.  I had picked up a cooler and stocked it with Red Bull, Mountain Dew, and Water and brought it with me.  When I went in, this group of guys was staring me down.  They acted at first as if I wouldn't be allowed to play because I hadn't entered, but I gave them the information from the man I'd spoken to and called him (at first, they acted as if they didn't know who he was).  As I was setting up to play my first opponent, several people kept coming over and looking at my stuff.  When I went to start playing- my tape measure had vanished (something that I never forgot).  The judge INSTANTLY said, "Sorry, you're required to have all materials for play.  I've got to disqualify you" - even though there was a Lowe's right next door.  As I packed my stuff, everyone there was staring at me and watching me leave- no one was playing.  I found out later that these guys were known to rig tournaments so their pals could win the prize.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;913933Don't play with assholes.

Okay, we're done here.  Somebody fetch me a beer.

You forgot "No Gaming is better than bad gaming!"

I am dissapointed. :D

Oh wow bringing up miniatures brought an unpleasant memory back.

I got heavily into miniatures for a few years as there was an active local group (not interested in roleplaying :() I really enjoyed the modeling part of it as I am a bit of an artist myself and it allowed me to merge the two interests of gaming and art. My favorite part was building terrain.

Heres a couple examples of how serious I took the hobby.

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i299/rgrove0172/__hr_three.jpg) (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/rgrove0172/media/__hr_three.jpg.html)

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i299/rgrove0172/USBridge.jpg) (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/rgrove0172/media/USBridge.jpg.html)

One summer I decided to do something special. I took a 4x8' piece of heavy plywood and started applying plaster. I fashioned a diorama for the American Civil War game we had been playing. No separate pieces of terrain on felt here but a complete diorama. Grass, shrubs, trees, fallen leaves (it was an autumn scenario) a riverbed, roads, farm houses, crops and so on. The group was thrilled with the result and thought it so cool as to invite some guys from nearby town. (No Harlock, it wasn't San Angelo but rather the unwashed of Midland)

One of the visitors starts placing his troops and actually scrunches then down into the carefully modeled turf, cracking plaster, breaking shrubs. Then he leans on a tree..snap. Reaches out to move ssome troops and uses a farmhouse for leverage...crunch! Finally he knocks a stack of hand painted miniatures onto the floor and picks them up by the HANDFUL and tosses them on the table.

I had had enough, I asked if he could please be more careful as I worked very hard on the table. His answer was that it was supposed to be a game, not a museum piece. If I didn't want it damaged, I shouldn't  play on it.

I asked him to let me move his troops then, he could tell me where and I make the moves. He declined and said he would rather not play then. I said fine, as did a couple others. So he picks up his troops, the entire Rebel flank, and sat there brooding for the next 4 hours. He wouldn't let us use his miniatures so we had to improvise by thinning lines and such, it was a real pain.

Fun fun.

Quote from: Crüesader;913966On the flipside, I've had groups run ME off- not asking me to leave, but certain things have irked me to the point where I no longer wanted to play with them.

Yeah, there have been more cases where I've split from a gaming group than where I've had to chase a player out of my group. Usually because I've been either disgusted by the other players, or cheating and arguing has annoyed me. In those cases, I've been invited along by a friend, or met them through a 'blind' advertisement.

Quote from: K Peterson;914007Yeah, there have been more cases where I've split from a gaming group than where I've had to chase a player out of my group. Usually because I've been either disgusted by the other players, or cheating and arguing has annoyed me. In those cases, I've been invited along by a friend, or met them through a 'blind' advertisement.

Yeah, I'm pretty selective about who I bring in.  I've always believed in the rule "you are entirely responsible for the behavior of those you invite".  Some people balk at this rule, but at the end of the day- you're not inviting shitheads over.

Okay I have one.

This guy is nice enough in real life. He has some issues and is going through stuff, but is generally quite likeable.

However, once he played RPGs... his characters always... ALWAYS devolved into sadistic, misogynistic lone wolves.

I gave him three strikes (three different campaigns).

First one was Dark Heresy.

Yeah that's a game that seems to bring out the evil asshole in just about every player, but he was worse. Always going off on his own, starting arguments in and out of game. Also murdering and torturing NPCs out of nowhere (no escalation at all). That campaign sort of fell apart for a heap of reasons, but he didn't help.

Second one was WFRP 3rd ed.

For that game I tried pre-creating basic character "shells". That meant that each character's race, career, starting stats and basic background fluff were all premade by me to ensure a solid party composition and to avoid the appearance of certain tropes. Otherwise personality, goals, beliefs were entirely up to each player.

He picked my favourite among the character concepts that I had made for them: a female pit fighter who was very popular among the downtrodden (women, elderly, second class citizens etc) 'cause she often fought for them (in the judicial pit fighting system).

ANYWAY, she quickly devolved into another brutal sadist enough to make Khorne blush. Again, this caused friction in the party, in game and out as people became uncomfortable with the grim tone (even for WFRP).

Last strike was D&D. Yeah I was being generous.

He jumped in mid-campaign, taking over an NPC of his choice from a roster of supporting characters. He picked one of the nicer ones: a jovial, handsome guy who looked like Chris Hemsworth (Thor). A ladies man who was already infatuated with one of the female PCs.

The campaign was based on a mythical Zoo from Vornheim.

Here is a list of way that he threatened both the session and the overall campaign to the point that my regulars all threatened to stop playing if I allowed the guy to continue.

SPOILERS for Vornheim:

- In the very first room at the very start he decided to shoot the harmless Nightingale flitting about. He rolled a critical hit and killed it. That nightingale was the main villain who held the entire dungeon together. I was flabbergasted. My players were confused. His reasoning? He wanted to see what his character's potential was. The other characters were annoyed.

- He charged headlong at the face of a mega giant turtle after the rest of the party had decided to back off and leave it alone. Another character had to save his life and convince him to give it up.

- He attempted to (awkwardly) seduce an NPC noble lady who just wasn't interested (she was there for the giant octopus). But because she turned him down, he proceeded to force himself on her. When she fought back, he tried to kill her. This made EVERYONE at the table uncomfortable. We knew that shit was bad when one of my other friends at the table, who's usually the creepy one, was the first to intervene and attempt to diffuse the situation.

- He decided to charge at a monster after the rest of the party had decided to leave it alone and sneak past it.

- The party befriended two spirits of ancient Chinese warriors who promised to follow one order each before returning to the spirit realm. The guy immediately ordered one to attack the other, pissing off the entire table for wasting one of the ghosts.

We ended shortly after that. The silence was really awkward as people packed up.

Needless to say I told the guy that his playstyle didn't quite mesh with the others. He was going through a divorce at the time so I tried to be nice about it.

Yikes.

Quote from: rgrove0172;914006(No Harlock, it wasn't San Angelo but rather the unwashed of Midland)

To be honest, I'm not too fond of the miniatures gamers here. Way too much focus on the end rather than the game itself. Nice paint jobs by the way. If we add miniature gamers into the mix, there was a fellow I never invited back to my house after a couple of times. I was just learning a new game against a veteran player and in posting an after action report to an online forum, it was pointed out that several of the things my opponent had done were not legal. Now, I can understand a mistake here or there, but there were frequent misrepresentations and bald faced cheating going on. I just don't understand cheating. Isn't it supposed to be the game and not the result that is fun? And where is the victory if you cheat to get it?

I concure - as we have no doubt established I am all about the experience (story), winning and losing just aren't a priority. Ive actually been criticized for making moves in wargames that were logical from a local commander's perspective but not from a gamer wanting to win's. Like not pushing headlong into an objective position to win the game on the last turn because in reality you would have no hope of holding it. Sadly this attitude has ticked off a few players. Grognards and miniatures gamers are their own breed.

Quote from: rgrove0172;9138622) A young kid about 18 joined our group at one point, goth looking kid - bleached white hair, eye makeup and black fingernails. You know the type.

The Goths and rural-American Satanic teenagers I've met have been two very different types. The Satanists were the ones talking about sacrificing dogs. The Goths were nicer than conformists.

I'm not remembering having to actually eject anyone who had made it into a game... I address problems very quickly, so problematic people tend to get filtered before they get to their first session. Like I tell them about my campaign and GM style and they don't choose to play because they want easy magic healing or equal experience points at all times or don't enjoy detailed deadly tactical combat. Or we start talking about the character they want to play, or they submit a sheet, and I tell them what does/doesn't make sense in the game they're joining, and they leave because they wanted to play a were-ferret or a pink ninja or wanted to play their D&D character who already has more magic than any NPC anywhere in my campaign. But even that only happened when I was open to random unknown players, in days of yore. Mostly in recent decades, people are pre-screened because they weren't the ones invited by me or my friends based on already knowing they were a good enough match.

As for people shouting what everyone is doing, even much slighter out-of-character assertions get addressed right away. "No, you don't all do that. Why are you shouting? Is your character yelling at everyone to do that?" (asks each other player one at a time what they are doing. NPCs make appropriate reaction rolls if someone other than their leader is trying to command them).

Quote from: rgrove0172;914006Oh wow bringing up miniatures brought an unpleasant memory back.

I got heavily into miniatures for a few years as there was an active local group (not interested in roleplaying :() I really enjoyed the modeling part of it as I am a bit of an artist myself and it allowed me to merge the two interests of gaming and art. My favorite part was building terrain.

Heres a couple examples of how serious I took the hobby.

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i299/rgrove0172/__hr_three.jpg) (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/rgrove0172/media/__hr_three.jpg.html)

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i299/rgrove0172/USBridge.jpg) (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/rgrove0172/media/USBridge.jpg.html)

One summer I decided to do something special. I took a 4x8' piece of heavy plywood and started applying plaster. I fashioned a diorama for the American Civil War game we had been playing. No separate pieces of terrain on felt here but a complete diorama. Grass, shrubs, trees, fallen leaves (it was an autumn scenario) a riverbed, roads, farm houses, crops and so on. The group was thrilled with the result and thought it so cool as to invite some guys from nearby town. (No Harlock, it wasn't San Angelo but rather the unwashed of Midland)

One of the visitors starts placing his troops and actually scrunches then down into the carefully modeled turf, cracking plaster, breaking shrubs. Then he leans on a tree..snap. Reaches out to move ssome troops and uses a farmhouse for leverage...crunch! Finally he knocks a stack of hand painted miniatures onto the floor and picks them up by the HANDFUL and tosses them on the table.

I had had enough, I asked if he could please be more careful as I worked very hard on the table. His answer was that it was supposed to be a game, not a museum piece. If I didn't want it damaged, I shouldn't  play on it.

I asked him to let me move his troops then, he could tell me where and I make the moves. He declined and said he would rather not play then. I said fine, as did a couple others. So he picks up his troops, the entire Rebel flank, and sat there brooding for the next 4 hours. He wouldn't let us use his miniatures so we had to improvise by thinning lines and such, it was a real pain.

Fun fun.

I agree with him.  Now, I'm no hamfisted moron and I do respect other people's stuff, but seriously, something that fragile should not be used for wargaming.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;914032I agree with him.  Now, I'm no hamfisted moron and I do respect other people's stuff, but seriously, something that fragile should not be used for wargaming.

The rest of us had no problem with it, nor any of the other layouts Ive provided. It takes a little care sure but the payoff is worth it. Playing with rubber terrain or clumps of moss and legos just doesn't cut it for some.

Wow I probably would have a "no damaging my terrain or I place your figures for you" rule stated as early as possible. I can see one or two accidents, but not being righteous about accidentally Godzilla-ing a well-done diorama. That sounds suspiciously like jealous destruction to me.

Quote from: Skarg;914050Wow I probably would have a "no damaging my terrain or I place your figures for you" rule stated as early as possible. I can see one or two accidents, but not being righteous about accidentally Godzilla-ing a well-done diorama. That sounds suspiciously like jealous destruction to me.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Shemek.

The guy sounded like a ham-fisted moron. Damaging turf, or shrubs, or plaster you can chock up to an accident, or not being familiar with the fragility of the terrain. "Leaning" on trees or buildings? C'mon.

They're beautiful dioramas. If I was using them regularly for wargaming I'd definitely try to find a way to 'fortify' them. Reinforce the buildings and trees.

In...2001 or 2002 I had to have the manager of the Moorestown, NJ WotC store we were running our game at eject a player that was extolling the virtues of NAMBLA to a table consisting of myself, my friends, and some of my friends kid brothers. If it was a house game he would have caught a beat down. But we were in public so...ejected and banned.

Quote from: Michael Gray;914058In...2001 or 2002 I had to have the manager of the Moorestown, NJ WotC store we were running our game at eject a player that was extolling the virtues of NAMBLA to a table consisting of myself, my friends, and some of my friends kid brothers. If it was a house game he would have caught a beat down. But we were in public so...ejected and banned.

Yeah. I can understand the frustration there. That would have been one of those, "Mister, you better leave before all of these witnesses see and hear you threaten me and I defend myself to within an inch of your life," situations.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;914032I agree with him.  Now, I'm no hamfisted moron and I do respect other people's stuff, but seriously, something that fragile should not be used for wargaming.

Bullshit. I put a lot of time and care into my scenery and terrain for all my games. The people I play with respect that, and treat it well. If I spent a ton of time building a special display board for a special scenario for my friends, I'd expect people to respect that, and be careful with it.

Of course, this is one of the reasons why I normally only play with my friends, and rarely bring any of my terrain to the FLGS war-games nights.

Its all about the situation of course. At a convention I ran a WWII game at a guy came over with his mentally handicapped son. He asked if they could play and I said sure. He watched the boy pretty closely but he did get rough with a model tank at one point and some of the terrain. I never had to say a thing, the father handled it as best he could and apologized each time. I let it slide. Terrain and models can be repaired. The look on the kids face when his Sherman took out a German AT-Gun position and he to put that big smoke plume down was priceless.

A competent adult doing the same thing without a bit of remorse is worthy only of contempt and removal.

I, myself, have been run off from the monthly gaming group at the Hawthorne library in Madison, WI.
GM ignoring me, other players talking over me or putting me down, one asshole calling me a "pushover" and a "doormat".
Was it because I betrayed the guy in a previous Paranoia one-shot? Was it because I was non-local person? Was there something I was legitimately doing wrong? If anybody on here is part of that group I would be interested in hearing what your reasons were.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;914032I agree with him.  Now, I'm no hamfisted moron and I do respect other people's stuff, but seriously, something that fragile should not be used for wargaming.

But he's not alone in his criticism. I've heard Chriine complain about ham-fisted folks messing up his minis and such.

Quote from: Skarg;914050Wow I probably would have a "no damaging my terrain or I place your figures for you" rule stated as early as possible. I can see one or two accidents, but not being righteous about accidentally Godzilla-ing a well-done diorama. That sounds suspiciously like jealous destruction to me.

Whatever the cause, I see no reason to allow the behavior to continue. Especially when there is an obvious and easy solution...like someone else placing and moving the minis.

Quote from: rgrove0172;914083At a convention I ran a WWII game at a guy came over with his mentally handicapped son. He asked if they could play and I said sure. He watched the boy pretty closely but he did get rough with a model tank at one point and some of the terrain. I never had to say a thing, the father handled it as best he could and apologized each time. I let it slide. Terrain and models can be repaired. The look on the kids face when his Sherman took out a German AT-Gun position and he to put that big smoke plume down was priceless.

OK, maybe that one reason.

Quote from: yosemitemike;913928They are simply impossible to deal with rationally.  Because they are convinced that any problem must be caused by someone else, it's impossible to get through to them or get them to consider changing their behavior.  They become completely impenetrable and intractable.

Yeah. And no matter how true, the minute you see your problem as caused by someone else is the minute you forfeit the power to solve it yourself.

Quote from: Necrozius;914013This guy is nice enough in real life. He has some issues and is going through stuff, but is generally quite likeable.

However, once he played RPGs... his characters always... ALWAYS devolved into sadistic, misogynistic lone wolves.

Interesting how some people behave radically different when playing RPGs, or posting on the internet, or drunk.

Quote from: Necrozius;914013In the very first room at the very start he decided to shoot the harmless Nightingale flitting about. He rolled a critical hit and killed it. That nightingale was the main villain who held the entire dungeon together.

Then to be fair it wasn't exactly harmless, was it? :)

Quote from: rgrove0172;914083Its all about the situation of course. At a convention I ran a WWII game at a guy came over with his mentally handicapped son. He asked if they could play and I said sure. He watched the boy pretty closely but he did get rough with a model tank at one point and some of the terrain. I never had to say a thing, the father handled it as best he could and apologized each time. I let it slide. Terrain and models can be repaired. The look on the kids face when his Sherman took out a German AT-Gun position and he to put that big smoke plume down was priceless.

A competent adult doing the same thing without a bit of remorse is worthy only of contempt and removal.

I think however a lot of us overestimate our ability to tell the difference, and at least in the case of SJWs the difference is moot because the consequences are the same.

And those fuckers call me ableist.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;914099Interesting how some people behave radically different when playing RPGs, or posting on the internet, or drunk.

Huh. I always figured behaving a little differently was the point of getting drunk.

Quote from: rgrove0172;914006Oh wow bringing up miniatures brought an unpleasant memory back.

I got heavily into miniatures for a few years as there was an active local group (not interested in roleplaying :() I really enjoyed the modeling part of it as I am a bit of an artist myself and it allowed me to merge the two interests of gaming and art. My favorite part was building terrain.

Heres a couple examples of how serious I took the hobby.

[snip, if that's all right]

One summer I decided to do something special. I took a 4x8' piece of heavy plywood and started applying plaster. I fashioned a diorama for the American Civil War game we had been playing. No separate pieces of terrain on felt here but a complete diorama. Grass, shrubs, trees, fallen leaves (it was an autumn scenario) a riverbed, roads, farm houses, crops and so on. The group was thrilled with the result and thought it so cool as to invite some guys from nearby town. (No Harlock, it wasn't San Angelo but rather the unwashed of Midland)

One of the visitors starts placing his troops and actually scrunches then down into the carefully modeled turf, cracking plaster, breaking shrubs. Then he leans on a tree..snap. Reaches out to move ssome troops and uses a farmhouse for leverage...crunch! Finally he knocks a stack of hand painted miniatures onto the floor and picks them up by the HANDFUL and tosses them on the table.

I had had enough, I asked if he could please be more careful as I worked very hard on the table. His answer was that it was supposed to be a game, not a museum piece. If I didn't want it damaged, I shouldn't  play on it.

I asked him to let me move his troops then, he could tell me where and I make the moves. He declined and said he would rather not play then. I said fine, as did a couple others. So he picks up his troops, the entire Rebel flank, and sat there brooding for the next 4 hours. He wouldn't let us use his miniatures so we had to improvise by thinning lines and such, it was a real pain.

Fun fun.

Glorious boards! I'd happy travel quite a ways to play on something like that, and you can bet I'd be damn respectful of the thing. The people I used to play with, back in the old days, would have been the same way - and the people I've had in to play here at the house and at the few games I run 'in public' have been the same way.

I will admit to having problems, but that was always at Origins or Gen Con. Which is why I don't do conventions much, anymore.

Quote from: Bren;914098But he's not alone in his criticism. I've heard Chriine complain about ham-fisted folks messing up his minis and such.

Yep. Which is why I prescreen players and have a specific set of heavy-duty miniatures for 'public' play. Getting into my basement to use the 'good stuff' is a very limited access proposition; I try to post as many photos as I can, though.

Quote from: Cave Bear;914096I, myself, have been run off from the monthly gaming group at the Hawthorne library in Madison, WI.
GM ignoring me, other players talking over me or putting me down, one asshole calling me a "pushover" and a "doormat".
Was it because I betrayed the guy in a previous Paranoia one-shot? Was it because I was non-local person? Was there something I was legitimately doing wrong? If anybody on here is part of that group I would be interested in hearing what your reasons were.

Were you the guy rubbing one out when combat started who was mentioned on the first page? If so, I found your reason. If not, some people are just close-minded jerks. Don't worry about it.

Quote from: Harlock;914014To be honest, I'm not too fond of the miniatures gamers here. Way too much focus on the end rather than the game itself. Nice paint jobs by the way. If we add miniature gamers into the mix, there was a fellow I never invited back to my house after a couple of times. I was just learning a new game against a veteran player and in posting an after action report to an online forum, it was pointed out that several of the things my opponent had done were not legal. Now, I can understand a mistake here or there, but there were frequent misrepresentations and bald faced cheating going on. I just don't understand cheating. Isn't it supposed to be the game and not the result that is fun? And where is the victory if you cheat to get it?

I'm sorry; I can cite all of the RPG players who have been assholes over the past years, if you like. Neckfat Gay Guy, Witch Queen, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #1, Big Name Collector, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #2, Why Are you Upset When I Steal Your Dice/Books/Magazines, Of Course I Cheat In RPGs, What's The Issue With My Raping A Fourteen-year-old, Big name Game Company Exec, and all the rules lawyers I've had to deal with over the decades. You want horrors, I got horrors.

And people wonder why I got out of retail and convention shows...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914123I'm sorry; I can cite all of the RPG players who have been assholes over the past years, if you like. Neckfat Gay Guy, Witch Queen, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #1, Big Name Collector, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #2, Why Are you Upset When I Steal Your Dice/Books/Magazines, Of Course I Cheat In RPGs, What's The Issue With My Raping A Fourteen-year-old, Big name Game Company Exec, and all the rules lawyers I've had to deal with over the decades. You want horrors, I got horrors.

And people wonder why I got out of retail and convention shows...

You have GOT to attach names to at least some of those...or at the very least, the best stories (meaning the worst).

Quote from: Bren;914098But he's not alone in his criticism. I've heard Chriine complain about ham-fisted folks messing up his minis and such.

Yep. Which is why I prescreen players and have a specific set of heavy-duty miniatures for 'public' play. Getting into my basement to use the 'good stuff' is a very limited access proposition; I try to post as many photos as I can, though.

Quote from: CRKrueger;914124You have GOT to attach names to at least some of those...or at the very least, the best stories (meaning the worst).

Glutton for punishment, are we?

(I do keep all the phone calls, audio tapes, and documents on file. People say and write the stupidest things; the courts have found quite a lot of it interesting, and several of the above have done time. Several more should do time, and probably will despite my best advice.)

Quote from: Gabriel2;913894Then there was a guy someone in the group invited to game night.  He was OK until the first combat of the night started.  Then he unzipped trou and started stroking the sausage right there at the table.  And he acted like this was some perfectly normal stuff.  I don't remember what I said, but I managed to yell at him something to the effect  of to put his junk back in his pants and get the fuck out.  I've never been able to remember his name or who invited him, and no one else there that night has ever volunteered the information since then.

I think you won the thread. I mean, wow... I'm not even sure how I would react if something like that happened...

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;913905(...)

Perhaps not entirely relevant to the thread but I always envy war and miniature gamers because I absolutely love the miniatures, scenery and terrain but have no interest whatsoever in playing or building. I wonder if there are exhibitions of this kind of stuff, outside of the occasional display in a game store, that is.

Do you have any pics of your Civil War diorama?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914126Yep. Which is why I prescreen players and have a specific set of heavy-duty miniatures for 'public' play. Getting into my basement to use the 'good stuff' is a very limited access proposition; I try to post as many photos as I can, though.

Really nice stuff Chirine Ba Kal, you put on a sweet game.

Quote from: 3rik;914129I think you won the thread. I mean, wow... I'm not even sure how I would react if something like that happened...


Perhaps not entirely relevant to the thread but I always envy war and miniature gamers because I absolutely love the miniatures, scenery and terrain but have no interest whatsoever in playing or building.

Do you have pics of your Civil War diorama?

I wish, they were part of the massive casualties suffered from a harddrive crash. Several years worth of pictures, projects and worse - RPG stuff all gone. I had a backup of course, all burned to DVDs that were accidentally packed in a box with some books when we moved....and left in the back of a truck for a few days....Texas days....summer days.... you see the problem?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914123I'm sorry; I can cite all of the RPG players who have been assholes over the past years, if you like. Neckfat Gay Guy, Witch Queen, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #1, Big Name Collector, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #2, Why Are you Upset When I Steal Your Dice/Books/Magazines, Of Course I Cheat In RPGs, What's The Issue With My Raping A Fourteen-year-old, Big name Game Company Exec, and all the rules lawyers I've had to deal with over the decades. You want horrors, I got horrors.

And people wonder why I got out of retail and convention shows...

I'm not saying they don't exist. I clearly stated that. I simply said I don't understand cheaters... Not sure I understand your singling me out?

Quote from: rgrove0172;914133I wish, they were part of the massive casualties suffered from a harddrive crash. Several years worth of pictures, projects and worse - RPG stuff all gone. I had a backup of course, all burned to DVDs that were accidentally packed in a box with some books when we moved....and left in the back of a truck for a few days....Texas days....summer days.... you see the problem?

Could you rebuild it from memory (the Civil War piece that is, not your picture collection)?

I've tossed out a few. I tend to "interview" people to join my group, usually with others whose opinions I trust. Even then a few have got past our bullshit detectors for other reasons.

Real problem players I've thrown out:

This idiot who used to write for R. Talsorian - imagine a fat, sweaty Weird Al Yankovic. He joined my Cyberpunk campaign and during chargen I simply asked him what he looked like. He had this duffel-bag he opened up, at a glance I noticed it was full of Playboys, Penthouse, and Qui magazines, and this folder. He opened up the folder quickly and it's full of nudie-pics... and he's thumbing through them rapidly. I'm looking at all my other players, they're looking at me - we all have the "W....T....F?!?!?!-face" going on. He picks a centerfold and holds it up for everyone to see, showing it proudly.

"This is what my character looks like."

My response was simple. "Get the fuck out."

I ejected a guy from my table at a convention for getting hostile with me and the other players. He wouldn't leave, security wasn't around, so I got pissed because he was holding up everything and pissing everyone off. He picked up his water-bottle and cocked his arm back to throw it at me, and I stood up. One of the players grabbed him and we both man-handled him outside and security eventually came. Oddly, they didn't throw him out of the convention and he later saw me in the hall of the hotel where the convention was at. He started talking shit, but I was with my whole crew (and I don't think he realized all of us were together as we were spread out through the hall - but uhh... we're some big dudes, all of us being Asian/Islander/Caucasian genetic experiments.). Nothing came of it. I thought it was funny. I think this guy was my first Nerdzerker encounter. Good thing we were in a good mood.

Quote from: 3rik;914136Could you rebuild it from memory (the Civil War piece that is, not your picture collection)?

Sure, with about $200 worth of materials, a month or two of free time and a bucket of creative inspiration! On second though, no, aint gonna every fuckin happen again.

Quote from: Harlock;914134I'm not saying they don't exist. I clearly stated that. I simply said I don't understand cheaters... Not sure I understand your singling me out?

Understood; I thought you wanted more in the RPG line then miniatures horror stories. Got lots of both, sad to say.

Not singling you out; just tried to answer what I thought was a talking point.

Agreed about the cheaters. Never understood it, and never played with anyone who did it - I think I got very lucky! :)

Quote from: rgrove0172;914131Really nice stuff Chirine Ba Kal, you put on a sweet game.

Thank you - not nearly as good as yours, I think... :)

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914123What's The Issue With My Raping A Fourteen-year-old

I have a long term player who's hinted at doing this in game.

I am not amused.

I have kept his character busy with other things, and he did this for one session only, so hopefully he got the message.

I would hate if I had to have The Talk with this congenial, and seemingly functional away from the game table, adult man.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914123I'm sorry; I can cite all of the RPG players who have been assholes over the past years, if you like. Neckfat Gay Guy, Witch Queen, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #1, Big Name Collector, Please Let Me Fondle Your Daughter #2, Why Are you Upset When I Steal Your Dice/Books/Magazines, Of Course I Cheat In RPGs, What's The Issue With My Raping A Fourteen-year-old, Big name Game Company Exec, and all the rules lawyers I've had to deal with over the decades. You want horrors, I got horrors.

And people wonder why I got out of retail and convention shows...

God damn! I don't think I realised how many creeps there are in this hobby. I've essentially been playing with the same core of players since the early 80's, with one or two temporary additions. I've been lucky I guess?

Shemek

Regarding this situation:

QuoteDoug (Lawful Good Paladin): What are the people loading and unloading?
Me (DM): Various trade goods in crates and barrels. Sacks of flour. That type of stuff.
Doug: Oh, I am so taking a sack of flour. I need it. I need flour.
Me (caught off guard): Really?
Doug: Yes. I grab the nearest sack of flour. I'll be like walking around the dungeon with a big 'ole sack of flour over my shoulders. The monsters will be like, "what is he carrying? Is that a sack of flour?!?!"
Other Players: laugh
Me (thinking): Ok. You grab the flour and the Halfling starts shouting at you. He appears like he may be in charge of the cargo. He runs up to you and tells you to put the flour down.
Doug: Does he have any weapons?
Me (failing to think of any reason why the Halfling work manager would have a weapon): No.
Doug: I stab him in the face. With my sword. I just stab him in the face.

If I were the DM I would tell Doug, "OK, you are not a Lawful Good Paladin any more. Instead, you are a Chaotic Evil Fighter" (or maybe Assassin), and definitely have Doug's character have to fight not only the guards, but also his former party members. And then have a talk with him (after his character is deceased), to maybe give him one more chance to not do weird stuff like that. After the 2nd strike, though, he's out, and won't be coming back to that gaming group.

Some of the other stories are humorous to others, but I'm sure they were not funny at all to the players who had to suffer through some of them!

I also spent about 8 years involved with various roller derby leagues as an announcer and statistician. The modern revival of flat-track roller derby of course has rules, but everyone involved with derby knows the "unofficial" Roller Derby Rule #1, which simply states, "Don't be a douchebag." Maybe tabletop gaming needs to adopt that rule?

Generally, in my past life as a DM 30+ years ago, when I had a player who was overly disruptive, etc, I would just arrange for a 10-ton block of granite or maybe some green slime to fall on him/her at an opportune time, thus removing the impediment to everyone else's play.   :-)   I only had to do that a couple of times, though.

Rusty DM

"Doug" could have been dealt with by that most useful DM phrase, "no, don't be stupid." And move on with the game.

The rest are just arseholes so there's not much remedy for them.

Quote from: Harlock;914014To be honest, I'm not too fond of the miniatures gamers here. Way too much focus on the end rather than the game itself. Nice paint jobs by the way. If we add miniature gamers into the mix, there was a fellow I never invited back to my house after a couple of times. I was just learning a new game against a veteran player and in posting an after action report to an online forum, it was pointed out that several of the things my opponent had done were not legal. Now, I can understand a mistake here or there, but there were frequent misrepresentations and bald faced cheating going on. I just don't understand cheating. Isn't it supposed to be the game and not the result that is fun? And where is the victory if you cheat to get it?

Honestly, that kind of shocks me because you're near a military base.  GI's are usually the better groups to play with.  When I was at Camp Lejeune, I used to play at a little local spot and the Marines there were pretty chill about it, most of them were more concerned with helping you.  Same with another spot in Georgia.  GI's tend to be more fun-spirited about it, and you'd be shocked at how many bases have a '40k club' where guys will come together on weekends.  

The only issue we ever had with our on-post 40k club was the dependent children that showed up.  Most of them would be little brats and start problems, then call daddy (who was usually some Colonel, Sergeant Major, or something like that) and he'd come in and start saying we 'bullied' his kid and want to call our First Sergeants.  Strangely enough, after we decided it would have to be 'active duty and reservists only'- the rec center started moving pool tables and other things into our area so we couldn't set up the game tables (we provided them).

Quote from: Crüesader;914218Honestly, that kind of shocks me because you're near a military base.  GI's are usually the better groups to play with.  When I was at Camp Lejeune, I used to play at a little local spot and the Marines there were pretty chill about it, most of them were more concerned with helping you.  Same with another spot in Georgia.  GI's tend to be more fun-spirited about it, and you'd be shocked at how many bases have a '40k club' where guys will come together on weekends.  

The only issue we ever had with our on-post 40k club was the dependent children that showed up.  Most of them would be little brats and start problems, then call daddy (who was usually some Colonel, Sergeant Major, or something like that) and he'd come in and start saying we 'bullied' his kid and want to call our First Sergeants.  Strangely enough, after we decided it would have to be 'active duty and reservists only'- the rec center started moving pool tables and other things into our area so we couldn't set up the game tables (we provided them).

Maybe I should give 40k a try some time. I played fantasy. And now, I actually changed to Kings of War from Mantic Games. Also, we've had two new game shops open up in the area, so choices are better than when it was a single shop, not that I begrudge the owner, who is actually a great guy. And it usually wasn't the military guys being d-bags. It's was the regulars. In fact, the guy I described in the story was a friend of mine from way back in elementary school days.

ETA: It's probably important to remember that GAFB is a very temporary stop for most folks. I doubt most trainees even bring their armies for the 3-6 months they are around.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;914189God damn! I don't think I realised how many creeps there are in this hobby.

There have been a disturbingly large number of child sexual abuse/statutory rape scandals relating to SF cons that have been exposed in the last decade or so.  And that's just the ones we know about.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;914189God damn! I don't think I realised how many creeps there are in this hobby. I've essentially been playing with the same core of players since the early 80's, with one or two temporary additions. I've been lucky I guess?

Shemek

There really aren't.  The thing is, it's like any group of people.  You'll find creeps and scumbags in everything.  It's just hard to accept that a piece of shit might share our interest.  I know, I was confounded like you once and then I realized there are other hobbies out there that have it much, much worse.

Quote from: Harlock;914220ETA: It's probably important to remember that GAFB is a very temporary stop for most folks. I doubt most trainees even bring their armies for the 3-6 months they are around.

There are quite a bit of guys that will have theirs shipped from home or pick up the hobby while they're in training.

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;914189God damn! I don't think I realised how many creeps there are in this hobby. I've essentially been playing with the same core of players since the early 80's, with one or two temporary additions. I've been lucky I guess?

Shemek

I don't think that it is the abundance of creeps so much as it is these creeps think that because the hobby has such love for Geek Social Fallacy #1 that they believe that they can let their creepiness out in the open without consequence.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914128(I do keep all the phone calls, audio tapes, and documents on file. People say and write the stupidest things; the courts have found quite a lot of it interesting, and several of the above have done time. Several more should do time, and probably will despite my best advice.)

I love a happy ending!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914128I do keep all the phone calls, audio tapes, and documents on file.

That's kind of loopy, dude.

[video=youtube;HtgoAt7ZTyE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtgoAt7ZTyE[/youtube]

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914249That's kind of loopy, dude.

Agreed; welcome to my life. When you've been called in by a court as an expert witness as often as I have, or been threatened by some fool with a lawsuit because they think they can make money off of what's in my brain as often as I have, you follow your lawyer's advice and keep everything. There are some very stupid and very greedy people out there, and more then a few of them tried to get grabby. Which is the problem with being the owner of a very large, very historically significant, and very valuable collection of stuff; one does wind up being the target of some pretty malignant folks. That's on the professional side; the personal side, like the guy we put away for rape, is equally annoying and one winds up keeping everything there are well.

Which is why a forum like this is pretty much my only point of contact with gamers and fans. Safer for me and the Missus, we've discovered the hard way over the decades.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914255[video=youtube;HtgoAt7ZTyE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtgoAt7ZTyE[/youtube]

Very, very funny, and all too true - I've known and worked for quite a few of those people. :)

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914268Which is why a forum like this is pretty much my only point of contact with gamers and fans. Safer for me and the Missus, we've discovered the hard way over the decades.

It does make me wish Ellison would let somebody reprint Xenogenesis.

"Zero Charisma." Found the flick on youtube. It was funny, but very sad. They didn't really gloss over the painful aspects of the main character's life, which was a bold way to go with it.

One thing that did stick out to me: 20 hours of prep a week? I don't think I ever put in that much, even when I had the time to prep extensively. I guess I'm a lazy GM.

Quote from: cranebump;914276"Zero Charisma." Found the flick on youtube. It was funny, but very sad. They didn't really gloss over the painful aspects of the main character's life, which was a bold way to go with it.

One thing that did stick out to me: 20 hours of prep a week? I don't think I ever put in that much, even when I had the time to prep extensively. I guess I'm a lazy GM.

That is pretty extreme, I can identify with 10-15 pretty easily though....well not a week but per session.

Quote from: rgrove0172;914281That is pretty extreme, I can identify with 10-15 pretty easily though....well not a week but per session.

I'm not sure what I put in, but I imagine it's a few hours mapping out the next arc. I'll make a few tables I think I might want to use (wandering monsters), and then generate some random sites for travel, since we're sandboxing. That takes a bit of time, but I'd say it's much less than 10 hours, and I only have to do it every other session or so, depending. Of course, we're not running a heavy system, and nothing is level-dependent, so not as much care is needed in certain aspects of design, like encounters. I do update the offscreen moves between sessions, just so the world is evolving around the party as they go do whatever they're doing (which, I guess everyone does that). Since there's no guarantee what they'll decide to do, however, I think keeping things open and adjusting is the way I have to go, lest I end up with specific threads that dangle indeterminately, forever.:-)

I subscribe to the theory of "never spend more time prepping a session than you do playing it". Of course, I tend to do a lot more work when starting up a campaign (detailing hexes, NPCs, and their plots & schemes), but even that's like maybe 10 hours total. But once that's done, everything else flows pretty easily. Keeping in mind what's going on in my world, and reacting to the PCs exploits, I probably never do much more than 30 minutes to an hour of prep per session.

I've been lucky... I've never been part of a game, as Player or GM, that ejected anyone... but I've seen a number of ragequits,  and I've ejected myself from some groups out of annoyance or boredom.

So there's a whole thread here about crumby things happening in our hobby.  Couple months back a woman over at Latining posted a series if really crappy things that have happened to her and that she has seen.  No one on this thread was there to stop them.  

Pundit then said dumb stuff.  Since we know that stuff like that happens, ie the above thread, anyone gonna suggest he apoligze?  

If he has already just point me at it.

Quote from: cranebump;914276One thing that did stick out to me: 20 hours of prep a week? I don't think I ever put in that much, even when I had the time to prep extensively. I guess I'm a lazy GM.

I have.

Quote from: Headless;914299So there's a whole thread here about crumby things happening in our hobby.  Couple months back a woman over at Latining posted a series if really crappy things that have happened to her and that she has seen.  No one on this thread was there to stop them.  

Pundit then said dumb stuff.  Since we know that stuff like that happens, ie the above thread, anyone gonna suggest he apoligze?

"Latining"? :confused:

In the killing goblin children thread I mentioned my Saturday (online) game where we tend to run off people who aren't interested in hearing about our teenage antics from 30 years ago in between die rolls.  We aren't trying to run them off of that game, but it's a very social get together first and game second.  That said, we do play other games with most of the people who run away from that specific game, they just want to try it out and don't realize how very idiosyncratic it is.

I've run hundreds of games for a few hundreds of players (did a decade doing convention games for a couple game companies as part of that, plus I've lived lots of different places) and the VAST majority of players I'd gladly play with again.  I have no actual horror stories, at worst, just some people or groups that just didn't fit well with what was going on, and only a couple who badly needed a bath (one of whom I had a conversation with and they cleaned up their act, literally, and we gamed together for a couple years after that).

Quote from: chirine ba kal;914268Agreed; welcome to my life. When you've been called in by a court as an expert witness as often as I have, or been threatened by some fool with a lawsuit because they think they can make money off of what's in my brain as often as I have, you follow your lawyer's advice and keep everything. There are some very stupid and very greedy people out there, and more then a few of them tried to get grabby. Which is the problem with being the owner of a very large, very historically significant, and very valuable collection of stuff; one does wind up being the target of some pretty malignant folks. That's on the professional side; the personal side, like the guy we put away for rape, is equally annoying and one winds up keeping everything there are well.

Which is why a forum like this is pretty much my only point of contact with gamers and fans. Safer for me and the Missus, we've discovered the hard way over the decades.

Welcome to the gaming biz. Heres your free sample of design theft, chicanery, backstabbing, madness, and dirty dealing. Oh yeah. And heres the index card, er, manual on running your business.

Quote from: Michael Gray;914058In...2001 or 2002 I had to have the manager of the Moorestown, NJ WotC store we were running our game at eject a player that was extolling the virtues of NAMBLA

National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914206"Doug" could have been dealt with by that most useful DM phrase, "no, don't be stupid." And move on with the game.

The rest are just arseholes so there's not much remedy for them.

Well, yeah.  "Don't be an assbucket" solves many problems.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914249That's kind of loopy, dude.

In the US, the game industry and hobby has some pockets of genuine bizarre.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;914388In the US, the game industry and hobby has some pockets of genuine bizarre.

Europe has some as well. Japan. Dont know. But about two years ago there was a movement of EU game designers to try and get a better deal from EU publishers. And of course theres good ol Games Workshop paving the way of dirty dealing. And thats before even getting to the fans/players.

It seems less the pockets and more the whole cloth.

Back when I was running a 3rd edition Gamma World campaign (the one with the colored chart) we had a guy named Dwayne join. No one can remember how Dwayne got into the game. No one ever remembers inviting him. No one ever knew him before the game and none of us socialized with him outside the game. Nor did we kick him out so much as he faded away. He did however just creep the f*ck out of everyone in the group. I made the mistake of shaking his hand once. His grip was soft and moist and the bones seemed to move in a way that bones-should-not-move. My skin crawled for like three days. I liken it to encountering a Deep One. Creepiest dude I ever met.

I did have two former roommates ask me to decide which one could stay in my campaign as they had a falling out. I chose the less annoying one. The one I kept in the game eventually dropped out as he joined a Christian doomsday cult. His real family contacted me looking for him. He had given me all his gaming books as they were 'evil'. I still have the Magic Item Encyclopedia set.

I had to kick a roommate out of a campaign because her play style just did not fit our group. She designed this passive, support character and then DOMINATED actual play-time. If the spotlight wasn't on her 24/7 she pouted and was disruptive. She also (unsuccessfully) hit on me. She didn't last long as a roommate either.

Quote from: Headless;914299So there's a whole thread here about crumby things happening in our hobby.  Couple months back a woman over at Latining posted a series if really crappy things that have happened to her and that she has seen.  No one on this thread was there to stop them.  

Maybe because the post started with her complaining about a gaming company she was displeased with, then a ton of unsubstantiated stories that had no relation to that, then closed with asking us to send harassing emails to said miniatures company.  It sounded to me like she wanted to add some personal tragedy (whether real or not) to urge people into demanding Wyrd miniatures make the minis she wanted to see.  No matter how you rinse that story, it's not any less scummy of her.  Either she lied about a bunch of shit, or she used personal tragedy to leverage a harassment/extortion campaign.  

You'll notice these people are talking about 'gamers they have run off'.  Not 'gamers that I totally welcomed into my group and never did anything about' or whatever.  That means the we, as gamers are doing shit about this and it's not this massive 'white male terrorism problem', because it's not fucking tolerated.  Did you want to believe our hobbies are full of saints?  They aren't.  No hobby is exempt from drawing in a few shitheads here and there.  It's not an epidemic, it's just fucking statistically impossible to NOT encounter a bad person in a social hobby like this.

Quote from: Headless;914299So there's a whole thread here about crumby things happening in our hobby.  Couple months back a woman over at Latining posted a series if really crappy things that have happened to her and that she has seen.  No one on this thread was there to stop them.

I was unaware it was my duty to patrol game conventions and barge into other people's game group to police their behaviour, excuse me while I fetch my truncheon and handcuffs.  

QuotePundit then said dumb stuff.  Since we know that stuff like that happens, ie the above thread, anyone gonna suggest he apoligze?

If we were going to ask Pundit to apologise for all the dumb shit he has said, it would be a long, long list of things for him to work through. Let's just have him roll on as he does, it's simpler and less tedious that way.

I don't know what happened before.  None of the post go into much detail.  If their is a synopsis somewhere I  will be happy to read it.  She started by saying she was getting hate mail and death threats.  And no one would stop it.  

Then she posted a series of really auful things.  Which the women I know who have read the post instantly substantiated 'yeah that shit happens'.  Now we have a whole thread substainting what she said.  And these are men with the authority of being the DM and often being in their own house.  A female player at a con, I suspect will face more harrasment.



The name of her post is 'white male terrisom'. When ever she calls attention to this stuff she gets screaming hate filled emails saying she lieing, she was asking for it, she will be raped and killed.  

Pundit then made a screaming hate filled post saying 'she's lieing and she was asking for it.'

I say this thread is evidence she is not lieing and wasn't asking for it.  I think pundit should apologies for saying that specifically.

Quote from: Headless;914683I don't know what happened before.  None of the post go into much detail.  If their is a synopsis somewhere I  will be happy to read it.  She started by saying she was getting hate mail and death threats.  And no one would stop it.  

You know, funny thing about hate mail and death threats sent online from someone- you tend to have irrevocable proof to show for it.  Funny how she never managed to provide that.  

If I were to ask you to send hate mail to a company in my name, based on an accusation- I'm gonna show you proof.

Quote from: Headless;914683Then she posted a series of really auful things.  Which the women I know who have read the post instantly substantiated 'yeah that shit happens'.  Now we have a whole thread substainting what she said.  And these are men with the authority of being the DM and often being in their own house.  A female player at a con, I suspect will face more harrasment.

Well, a couple of women you know said it happens, must mean it's an epidemic.  Most women I know that read it rolled their eyes.  Which one of us is accurate?  I know a shitload of people that claim to have been abducted by aliens and fucked by bigfoot, guess that's true.

You -do- realize none of these claims had any evidence and all turned into 'please harass this company for me', right?  Not one time did she say we should consider better security at conventions.  Not one time did she say we should do ANYTHING except harass the company she held a grudge against.

Quote from: Headless;914683The name of her post is 'white male terrisom'. When ever she calls attention to this stuff she gets screaming hate filled emails saying she lieing, she was asking for it, she will be raped and killed.  

Proof?

Quote from: Headless;914683Pundit then made a screaming hate filled post saying 'she's lieing and she was asking for it.'

'Screaming'?  Your text to speech device is broken.  And yeah, it's pretty much concrete that she was lying.  She provided no evidence.  Even when the company asked for the evidence so he could put an end to the career of whomever was doing it, she failed to provide it.

Face it, dude.  It's typical SJW shit.  She demanded a job with this company to 'fix' miniatures she didn't like.  She didn't get it, so she tried to extort them by smearing their reputation online.  And she never won any real legal court battle, either.  

Quote from: Headless;914683I say this thread is evidence she is not lieing and wasn't asking for it.  I think pundit should apologies for saying that specifically.

Your idea of 'evidence' is the most comical shit I've ever seen.    Just because I had a shit-awful experience in Iraq doesn't mean that every Stolen Valor parasite is telling the truth, either.

In the real world, with grownups- we provide 'proof' for something we claim.  Otherwise people tell us we are full of shit.

Stories do not equate truth.  For all you know, most people here are lying.  And no one here has a 'rape story'.  Someone pulled out their dick and started playing with it, though- and that sounds to me more like a mental illness.

Quote from: daniel_ream;914272It does make me wish Ellison would let somebody reprint Xenogenesis.

If the story in there about someone throwing warm vomit all over Alan Dean Foster doesn't make you lose hope for all of niche hobbies - sci-fi fans, gamers, all of us - then nothing will. :(

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914679I was unaware it was my duty to patrol game conventions and barge into other people's game group to police their behaviour, excuse me while I fetch my truncheon and handcuffs.  


If we were going to ask Pundit to apologise for all the dumb shit he has said, it would be a long, long list of things for him to work through. Let's just have him roll on as he does, it's simpler and less tedious that way.

I am asking this community to police the members of this community for what they say because it reflects on us.  

I am not asking pundit to apologies for all the dumb stuff he has said.  Just one specific thing.  And while it's simpler for us not to bother.  None of us are getting death threats.  None of us have the police telling us that they need to quit gaming or they are going to die.  Which is kind of the point.

Quote from: Crüesader;914686You know, funny thing about hate mail and death threats sent online from someone- you tend to have irrevocable proof to show for it.  Funny how she never managed to provide that.  

If I were to ask you to send hate mail to a company in my name, based on an accusation- I'm gonna show you proof.



Well, a couple of women you know said it happens, must mean it's an epidemic.  Most women I know that read it rolled their eyes.  Which one of us is accurate?  I know a shitload of people that claim to have been abducted by aliens and fucked by bigfoot, guess that's true.

You -do- realize none of these claims had any evidence and all turned into 'please harass this company for me', right?  Not one time did she say we should consider better security at conventions.  Not one time did she say we should do ANYTHING except harass the company she held a grudge against.



Proof?




'Screaming'?  Your text to speech device is broken.  And yeah, it's pretty much concrete that she was lying.  She provided no evidence.  Even when the company asked for the evidence so he could put an end to the career of whomever was doing it, she failed to provide it.

Face it, dude.  It's typical SJW shit.  She demanded a job with this company to 'fix' miniatures she didn't like.  She didn't get it, so she tried to extort them by smearing their reputation online.  And she never won any real legal court battle, either.  



Your idea of 'evidence' is the most comical shit I've ever seen.    Just because I had a shit-awful experience in Iraq doesn't mean that every Stolen Valor parasite is telling the truth, either.

In the real world, with grownups- we provide 'proof' for something we claim.  Otherwise people tell us we are full of shit.

Stories do not equate truth.  For all you know, most people here are lying.  And no one here has a 'rape story'.  Someone pulled out their dick and started playing with it, though- and that sounds to me more like a mental illness.

Are you aware of something called selection bias?  This screen is too small for me to type out the definition.  I would suggest you will rarely hear rape stories because the people, who have been raped would be afraid you would tell them they deserved it.

As for proof.  We aren't the police.  We don't get proof.  Not our role.  She has been to the police, they said 'nothing we can do, but those guys are going to kill you eventually'. But we don't need proof we aren't going to send any one to jail.  We are going to tell people not to be creepers.

Yes screaming.  He posted all caps which on the internet is screaming.  Unless you ment I misspelled it in which case sorry, English is my first language.

As for this thread being evidence: two things.  First we aren't going to put anyone in jail.  Our burden of proof is lower.

Second we have two cases of sexual harrasment of a minor from Crin bal Kal.  Hopefully he stopped it at harrasment before it got to assault.  But I suspect he won't tell us because this is no longer a safe place.  One count of 'undressing my wife with his eyes' if the husband wasn't there would have gotten worse.  Not enough evidence to convict, but enough not to leave that guy alone with wife or daughter  while you pick up the pizza.  


But all of that is beside the point.  I am asking pundit to apologize for saying 'she was asking for it'. We have evidence he said that.  We have both read the post.  So since we have evidence that he said that we should police our own community and ask him to apologize.  We have moderators for a reason.  Unless of course you think 'she was asking for it' or 'she deserved it' is acceptable response to a rape story.

Quote from: Headless;914693I am asking this community to police the members of this community for what they say because it reflects on us.

You go ahead and apologize on behalf of "the community" if it makes you feel better, but in the real world individuals have moral agency and are responsible for their own behavior.

Collective guilt is a progressive invention designed to justify imposing ridiculous speech codes and thought policing, usually suggested by a person new to the group who doesn't actually share in the goals or values of the group itself.

Quote from: AaronBrown99;914697You go ahead and apologize on behalf of "the community" if it makes you feel better, but in the real world individuals have moral agency and are responsible for their own behavior.

Collective guilt is a progressive invention designed to justify imposing ridiculous speech codes and thought policing, usually suggested by a person new to the group who doesn't actually share in the goals or values of the group itself.

I am not asking any one to apologies on behalf of the comunnity.  I am suggesting one specific member should apoligze for one specific thing he said.

They way I see it there are only three ways to disagree with me.  
"Not my problem."  In which case you are right.  No one is threatening to kill you.  But you are either lazy or a coward.  Or maybe exhausted from fighting.

"It didn't happen."  Well yes it did.  And we can all go read it.

"He said it and he should have, because she does deserve to be raped."

So which line is it?

Quote from: Headless;914696Are you aware of something called selection bias?  This screen is too small for me to type out the definition.  I would suggest you will rarely hear rape stories because the people, who have been raped would be afraid you would tell them they deserved it.

I'm very aware of the concept. I've no doubt that many people with personal trauma would rather not tell me.  I'm also pretty sure that people don't use their experiences with rape to score a free job or smear a company that has displeased them.  I don't use my Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to get free pizza, I can't imagine a rape story would be different.

Quote from: Headless;914696As for proof.  We aren't the police.  We don't get proof.  Not our role.  She has been to the police, they said 'nothing we can do, but those guys are going to kill you eventually'. But we don't need proof we aren't going to send any one to jail.  We are going to tell people not to be creepers.

That was the story she told.  And no, we aren't the police.  We ARE being asked to harass an otherwise credible business on her behalf without evidence.  And in case you haven't noticed, we kind of do tell people not to be creepers.  We also tell people not to be colossal fucking morons and believe every story they hear without evidence.  I'm not asking for her to prove she was raped.  I'm asking her to provide emails that she claims she's getting, the entire focal point of this article.  

Quote from: Headless;914696As for this thread being evidence: two things.  First we aren't going to put anyone in jail.  Our burden of proof is lower.

No, it isn't.  If I'm going to label someone something, I want proof.  And if I came out and started generalizing a group of people, I'd need some.  A random nobody posting a blog is not evidence enough to sway me, because I'm an intelligent person.

Quote from: Headless;914696But all of that is beside the point.  I am asking pundit to apologize for saying 'she was asking for it'. We have evidence he said that.  We have both read the post.  So since we have evidence that he said that we should police our own community and ask him to apologize.  We have moderators for a reason.  Unless of course you think 'she was asking for it' or 'she deserved it' is acceptable response to a rape story.

I'll tell you what:  Have her show those emails with those threats from the company and I'll do it.  

And in case you haven't noticed, Jackass- he's one of the admins.  

We DO police our own communities to a degree.  Are you reading the thread? Do you allow this shit at your place?  No.  I don't, and I'm a pretty thick-skinned bastard.  You know what else I don't do?  Rally to harass people based on a story.

However, if you are fool enough to believe her story, then I hope you're not fool enough to harass that gaming company.  Otherwise, you and that girl both deserve to be taken to the cleaners in court.  

Call me what you like, but I try not to believe everything I read on the internet.  That's how we get flat-earthers and illuminati theories.

As for that apology, I think you're pissing in the fan on that one.  Since you don't strike me as intelligent, let me clue you in on a little fact:  If you have to demand an apology to get one, it isn't worth a fucking thing.  And considering that apologies aren't worth that much when sincere- that's saying something.

The woman's story isn't questionable because it's a rape story.  It's questionable because it all goes back to one major thing that she can provide no evidence for at all.  It's questionable because if you look at her 'civil rights case' that was in some weird kangaroo court resembling nothing like a sane legal system- that entire story seems to be fabricated (She got money from a guy she used to work for because a customer harassed her, but by his account she was very open about her sexuality).

Yes, we fucking need evidence.  Don't be a retard.  Gaming does not have a 'white male terrorism' problem.  Gaming has a problem with guys not having the balls to stand up for their hobby, and little persecution fetishists trying to extort everyone and use manufactured outrages to shut down competitors or smear people they dislike.

As much as I hate to say this on a forum where I talk about painting little plastic soldiers:  Grow the fuck up and get in the real world.

Quote from: Headless;914700So which line is it?

I'm going to go with, "I don't care."

Quote from: Tetsubo;914404Back when I was running a 3rd edition Gamma World campaign (the one with the colored chart) we had a guy named Dwayne join. No one can remember how Dwayne got into the game. No one ever remembers inviting him. No one ever knew him before the game and none of us socialized with him outside the game. Nor did we kick him out so much as he faded away. He did however just creep the f*ck out of everyone in the group. I made the mistake of shaking his hand once. His grip was soft and moist and the bones seemed to move in a way that bones-should-not-move. My skin crawled for like three days. I liken it to encountering a Deep One. Creepiest dude I ever met.

This is the prelude to some WoD LARP... Did you find yourself suddenly passing out from anemia? Find your pets missing?

Quote from: Headless;914700I am not asking any one to apologies on behalf of the comunnity.  I am suggesting one specific member should apoligze for one specific thing he said.

They way I see it there are only three ways to disagree with me.  
"Not my problem."  In which case you are right.  No one is threatening to kill you.  But you are either lazy or a coward.  Or maybe exhausted from fighting.

"It didn't happen."  Well yes it did.  And we can all go read it.

"He said it and he should have, because she does deserve to be raped."

So which line is it?

You forgot the most important one:

"Or maybe I'm just chewing my own tail and this is the narrative that I believe an choose to put forth passive-aggressively, but I've carefully edited that out of the list of possibilities."

Because you know... "Selection bias is a two-way street." Right? RIGHT? <---screams!

Quote from: Headless;914683I say this thread is evidence she is not lieing and wasn't asking for it.  I think pundit should apologies for saying that specifically.

Then you are a fucking idiot.

The "white male terrorism" poster was bitching and not doing anything about the situation, this is an entire thread about people who have been kicked out of game groups for creepy or asshole behavior. You know, doing something about the situation besides bitching and hoping someone else does something.

Quote from: Headless;914693I am asking this community to police the members of this community for what they say because it reflects on us.  

And here is an entire thread about the community doing exactly that. Fuck off already.

Not at all coincidentally, I bought this (https://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought-ebook/dp/B014GMBUR4) last week.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S7%2BqrUYIL.jpg)

Quote from: jeff37923;914758Then you are a fucking idiot.

The "white male terrorism" poster was bitching and not doing anything about the situation, this is an entire thread about people who have been kicked out of game groups for creepy or asshole behavior. You know, doing something about the situation besides bitching and hoping someone else does something.

The white male terrorism poster also demanded a job from Wyrd miniatures and when she didn't get one, sicced her sycophants and white knights on Wyrd, besieging their office with phone calls and emails.  She insisted she got rape and death threats from Wyrd employees, and when the president of Wyrd asked her to pretty please produce those emails with headers so he could personally fire those responsible, she flat out didn't/wouldn't.  So screw her and her obviously made up bullshit.

Quote from: daniel_ream;914765Not at all coincidentally, I bought this (https://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought-ebook/dp/B014GMBUR4) last week.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S7%2BqrUYIL.jpg)

That's a fun read, definitely.

Quote from: daniel_ream;914765Not at all coincidentally, I bought this (https://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought-ebook/dp/B014GMBUR4) last week.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S7%2BqrUYIL.jpg)

You just linked to a *Vox Day* book? OK. Thanks for the revealing look into your world view. I'm out.

I had a particular instance where a wife & husband joined a game that didn't work out too well. They were the first people I'd ever invited to our game, as my friends and I were pretty tightly-knit back in those days. Long story short, the guy played a braggadocio who's large personality was all about treating others like trash both in and out of character. During our first session, he wanted to punish a peasant who made a sarcastic remark about him in a tavern. Breaking into the peasant's house to "trash it", I had him roll a random encounter die because he wasn't trying to be quiet about it. He got caught (which he groaned about), pulled a sword on a local bailiff and rolled very poorly on his D20. Pissed that he missed, he was instantly manhandled by a significantly more powerful bailiff and thrown into chains. His wife tried to calm him at the game table by placing her hand on his shoulder, but he then violently shrugged her off, shoved his chair backwards and stormed outside to smoke.

Although he later apologized, this would be their first and last game. I asked them not to come back over the phone, which he promptly hung up on me after calling me a bad GM and an asshole for "letting" a bailiff kick his ass.

Quote from: Tetsubo;914769You just linked to a *Vox Day* book? OK. Thanks for the revealing look into your world view. I'm out.

Am I going to have to Google "Vox Day" just to know what either of you two is on about?

Quote from: Bren;914777Am I going to have to Google "Vox Day" just to know what either of you two is on about?

If you're easily 'triggered' make sure to have your fainting couch handy...

Quote from: Headless;914683I don't know what happened before.  None of the post go into much detail.  If their is a synopsis somewhere I  will be happy to read it.  She started by saying she was getting hate mail and death threats.  And no one would stop it.

Given the number of feminists who have made dubious, unsubstantiated or outright fake (http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=4731) claims of rape and death threats to gain sympathy and moral authority, why are you so eager to believe this claim without any substantiating evidence at all?  Given that we have seen high profile people outright fabricating (http://www.staresattheworld.com/2014/09/anita-sarkeesian-fabricate-story-contacting-authorities/) threats against themselves for financial gain, why do you still accept these reports uncritically?  How many times do people have to be caught lying about rape and death threats before you stop taking all of these accounts at face value especially in a case where the person making the claim should logically have evidence in the form of emails but won't or can't produce it?

People lie about this stuff.  We know people lie about this stuff.  People have been caught lying about this stuff.  Why do you still believe it without any proof at all?

Quote from: Headless;914693I am asking this community to police the members of this community for what they say because it reflects on us.

We can't police anything. It's just a discussion forum. All we can do is call people out when they're saying dumb shit. But this is just when we come across it, I'm not going to read every post on this board in an effort to search out that one time someone said something nasty. But then, I'm not a Social Justice Warrior like you, nor am I a Conspiracy Justice Warrior (in the extremes of the right, shit never just happens, there's always a conspiracy) like Pundit. Like most of us I have better things to do with my day.

For the record, I work as a trainer, and I empower people by teaching them to lift fucking heavy weights - and more than half of my clients are women, and a good number older people. And, though male, I work from home part-time while doing most of the housework and childcare. I happen to think that teaching people to be physically and mentally stronger and setting positive examples of behaviour are more useful ways of effecting social change than posting something on an internet forum. But then, I was never a slacktivist, so could never fit in with SJWs and CJWs.

On topic: I wouldn't game with the Wyrd miniatures woman, I would run her off as a player. The good of the many, Spock told us, outweighs the good of the one. It's the same as when I supported a DM when he asked the autistic kid to leave. It's a game group, not group therapy.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914813It's the same as when I supported a DM when he asked the autistic kid to leave. It's a game group, not group therapy.

Mind if I ask for more details on that one?

Quote from: daniel_ream;914822Mind if I ask for more details on that one?

For a while we ran games at a dedicated space, a game store which was about 80% game tables. Mostly it was card games, secondarily board games, and lastly rpgs. So we set up an AD&D game with 2-3 people, and anyone who wanted to could try it out and place with us - at least once.

One of the players had I think it was a cousin, 18yo or so. He was prone to fits, though we never saw one, and his mother came along and sat reading a book at another table. He just didn't... get things. Argued constantly about the rules, said offensive things to other players, and described in altogether too much detail how his character would kill his foes. A few times he was on the edge of flipping out, his history was of physically fighting other people. Basically it was an 18yo body and mind with a 4yo's understanding of people (not mentally retarded, just socially) and society.

Of course, there are plenty of gamers who are a bit weird, that's fine. They're not autistic so you can discuss things with them and they can tone down offensive behaviour. But this kid was autistic, so he couldn't change his behaviour - or he could, but as I said that's the domain of a therapist, not a game group. It was a pity since his mother had been so happy he was out and doing things with people. But honestly he just wasn't ready, it would be like me getting a deconditioned 74yo woman to do snatches. He needed something in between sitting in his room and gaming with us.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914813... nor am I a Conspiracy Justice Warrior (in the extremes of the right, shit never just happens, there's always a conspiracy)..

Not that every member of the outrage brigade is working for the Triggerluminati, but a startling number of these Social Justice Crusades always have someone trying to take down a competitor, or extort money/favors from someone.  Damaging someone's reputation can cause a shitload of problems.  Al Sharpton riled up a bunch of people in the 90's over Pepsi's portrayal of black Americans in their advertisements (mind you, it was 'not enough', and if they made more, then they were 'portrayed wrong' no matter what).  He riled up so many people he was able to leverage an 'advisory role' at Pepsi and made a pretty huge chunk of money off of it for several years.  That's what it boils down to- a shakedown, using weaponized outrage and stupidity as a threat in an extortion racket.  Even if you look at 'that other site', at the forefront of quite a few outrages there's someone selling their own (Competing) product.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914813On topic: I wouldn't game with the Wyrd miniatures woman, I would run her off as a player. The good of the many, Spock told us, outweighs the good of the one. It's the same as when I supported a DM when he asked the autistic kid to leave. It's a game group, not group therapy.

Entirely concur.  I don't game with people out of sympathy or if they can't manage their personal life.  I'm also not there to cater to everyone with a problem whether they can help it or not. If they want to talk to someone, that's fine- I'll get them help.  But a gaming session is not a therapy or babysitting session.  And that woman in particular, if her accounts were true- I wouldn't go near her and she'd never be at my table... for the simple fact that if she's telling the truth, she's a fucking magnet for tragedy.

Quote from: Headless;914700I am not asking any one to apologies on behalf of the comunnity.  I am suggesting one specific member should apoligze for one specific thing he said.

Asking for an apology on behalf of someone else doesn't work. Actively seeking such an apology yourself, when you are the person who was the "victim" can and does work. A few years ago, a rather prominent person in the OSR scene at the time got it into his mind that I was responsible for an anonymous blog that I had, in fact, nothing at all to do with. He went way too far with his accusation - posting a lengthy open letter to me which included several personal details about me that I wasn't at all comfortable with. Several other things like 'Hitler didn't go far enough with you people' and a graphic photo of a wartime execution. And it didn't stop there. I started getting hate mail from people I didn't even know based on nothing more than that one guy's spiteful bullshit. I was going through a nasty divorce at the time, and that incident was all the excuse I needed to just say 'Fuck this. I don't want to take any kind of public role in a hobby that is chock full of people who will threaten to kill me or my children.'  

Fast forward a few years and I decided I might like to get back into things, but way more low-key than before. Shortly after that...guess who wrote another open letter complaining about people baselessly trolling him. I wrote a letter to him, reminded him what he'd done years earlier, and reminded him that a personal apology was in order. I got it. He publicly apologized in at least three public forums. As far as I was concerned, that was enough. I'm not going to be signing up to his Patreon account anytime soon, but neither do I feel like I want to personally kick the shit out of him either.

That's how that works Headless. You bitching about some second-hand offense is just shit-stirring. If the woman in question was really personally upset by what happened as a result of her sharing a story and Pundit's reaction to it - that's up to her to take it up with him.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914679If we were going to ask Pundit to apologise for all the dumb shit he has said, it would be a long, long list of things for him to work through. Let's just have him roll on as he does, it's simpler and less tedious that way.

Obviously we can't do that, how he'd he find time to write for WotC in that case.

I admit I usually took the coward's way if it was necessary, as in just stopped telling such a person that the games were occurring. The only instance I can remember was a rather simple one - there was just one guy that rubbed everyone the wrong way, including me. It's hard to say that he was an asshole or anything like that - he was just one of those guys that rub people the wrong way. Perhaps it was that he tended to hog the spotlight too much (and I mean really much), perhaps that he derailed our WFRP games to talk about his Druid - hard to say. It was a shame that I had to ask to let him go, because he was really engaged and he had a really well RPing buddy with him that left alongside him. But it had to happen - he did only quirk me slightly, but he was like a bloody red cape to the rest of the players.

I had a player arrive once drunk to the game, but he had a good decency to just go to sleep. Seeing how he was just coming back from a convention, and let us use his house for gaming any way, I magnanimously forgave him (though still rib him to this day for it).

There was however a quite reverse situation for me, when I had to get out of a gaming group despite their best efforts to invite me again, but it's a long story involving catpiss men and furries.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914829For a while we ran games at a dedicated space [...]

Cool, thanks.

Having worked with  a couple of actually autistic children and adults, I'm mildly annoyed by gamers and geeks labeling anything and everything as "autistic" or "Asperger's", so I always like to hear more details.

Sounds like you handled it about as well as could be expected.  I've seen some really tragic cases.

Quote from: Kellri;914922That's how that works Headless. You bitching about some second-hand offense is just shit-stirring.

Maolings gotta have their show trials.

On the storytelling/gaming side though I've had the misfortune to run into every lunatic possible.

Currently learning the hard way that I picked up a stalker whos been at it secretly for at least two years. And not just me.
Jannet quit IRC RPing due to no less than two stalkers using IRCs penchant for showing off to everyone your ISP to find her.
Players who feign interest in doing an RP and then leave and thereafter ignore the victim.
Players deliberately abusing being in character to fuck with newer players.
Learning a player was a minor and had been soliciting sex at conventions.

And more.

Some of this is due to being an admin for a RP site. Some of it isnt.

Quote from: Headless;914299So there's a whole thread here about crumby things happening in our hobby.  Couple months back a woman over at Latining posted a series if really crappy things that have happened to her and that she has seen.  No one on this thread was there to stop them.

Nobody elected me Sheriff of Gaming.

At least it's good to hear these players are being run off due to their behavior at the table, and not their political beliefs and activities away from it.

Quote from: Bren;914112Huh. I always figured behaving a little differently was the point of getting drunk.

It's quite possibly the point of RPGs and The Internet too.

Quote from: Headless;914683Then she posted a series of really auful things.  Which the women I know who have read the post instantly substantiated 'yeah that shit happens'.  Now we have a whole thread substainting what she said.

No, you have a whole thread where women admit to having similar experiences. Nothing has been substantiated because no evidence has been provided. Anyone can present a series of hypotheticals which reflect those experiences, but that doesn't make them any less true.

#Truthiness

Quote from: Crüesader;914686You know, funny thing about hate mail and death threats sent online from someone- you tend to have irrevocable proof to show for it.  Funny how she never managed to provide that.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;914766She insisted she got rape and death threats from Wyrd employees, and when the president of Wyrd asked her to pretty please produce those emails with headers so he could personally fire those responsible, she flat out didn't/wouldn't.

Quote from: Crüesader;914701I'm not asking for her to prove she was raped.  I'm asking her to provide emails that she claims she's getting, the entire focal point of this article.

Email evidence literally collects itself, and it's impossible to falsify on 3rd party servers like gmail, which is why I still use it.

Quote from: Crüesader;914686Not one time did she say we should do ANYTHING except harass the company she held a grudge against.

Quote from: Crüesader;914701We ARE being asked to harass an otherwise credible business on her behalf without evidence.

She also asked us to believe women in these matters unconditionally.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;914766The white male terrorism poster also demanded a job from Wyrd miniatures and when she didn't get one, sicced her sycophants and white knights on Wyrd, besieging their office with phone calls and emails.

And she demanded a job from Wyrd before she began her harassment campaign.

Quote from: Headless;914693I am asking this community to police the members of this community for what they say because it reflects on us.

Who's 'us' and where do you get this authority from?

Also been there, done that, got the bans to show for it.

Quote from: Crüesader;914701We DO police our own communities to a degree.  Are you reading the thread?

Or, well, pretty much any other thread on this site.

Quote from: Headless;914696First we aren't going to put anyone in jail.  Our burden of proof is lower.

So exactly how much proof do you need before you take actions against someone which can irrevocably harm their health, finances, and/or reputation? Hopefully it's more than just hearsay.

Oh, and false accusations of this nature can and have put innocent people behind bars.

Quote from: AaronBrown99;914697You go ahead and apologize on behalf of "the community" if it makes you feel better, but in the real world individuals have moral agency and are responsible for their own behavior.

Collective guilt is a progressive invention designed to justify imposing ridiculous speech codes and thought policing, usually suggested by a person new to the group who doesn't actually share in the goals or values of the group itself.

It's ironic that so called minorities try to gain leverage by appearing to be a majority. It seems to be the sole purpose of most of the community building efforts I see, and it's deeply toxic. People need to stop worrying about their participation in ambiguous community entities and just worry about the players at their table, like here.

Quote from: Crüesader;914701She got money from a guy she used to work for because a customer harassed her, but by his account she was very open about her sexuality

I fail to see how the two are connected.

Quote from: Tetsubo;914769You just linked to a *Vox Day* book? OK. Thanks for the revealing look into your world view. I'm out.

Oh shit, I guess I support fascism because I own Mein Kampf. And I guess I unilaterally support The Pundit's position on everything because I post here.

Please don't be #PartOfTheProblem.

Hmm, the worst player I ever had was someone who went out of their way to sleep with the BBEG, then accused me of raping her character when it didn't automatically make the BBEG bend to her every whim. Then she ragequit the game.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;915636I fail to see how the two are connected.

And I see your point here, they may very well NOT be connected.  Of course, if you openly discuss your sex life (or openly discuss ANYTHING), then you can't get fuck-ass mad and outraged when someone takes an interest and you don't get the exact sort of attention you want.  My father once said "If you whip your dick out, even if it's fifteen inches long and thicker than a swamp root- someone's going to say it's little and crooked."  In the language of people who don't answer the door with a shotgun and a Budweiser, that means "Don't do something for attention and expect all that attention to be positive."

Well, here we go again. An interesting thread gets politicized, then devolves into a bitchfest about SJWs. I don't have a horse in the bitchfest, being in the middle. I don't really want to have a horse in it. My horse wants to chill out in the pasture, eat some sweet grass and take it easy, because that's what old horses do. That said, as a lifelong white dude, with all the attendant advantages (and able to recognize the ones that were invisible to me, but not others), I have to say that the white male establishment bitching and moaning about unfairness is like King Kong complaining that the biplanes are too big and scary.

Speaking just for me, I think I can loosen 2 or 3 (maybe 4,5 or 6) of my 10 fingers clinging to the (justifiably) slipping status quo and let some folks have a grip on the edge, too. The world is going to be unrecognizable to me by the time I shuffle off this mortal coil. I'd like to think it's going to be better, and that's what I'm going to do.

Anyhoo, THIS:

QuotePeople need to stop worrying about their participation in ambiguous community entities and just worry about the players at their table...

And that goes for the folks on the left AND the right. My 4th grade classes whine less than you guys.

(Time to leave the site for a few days and listen to the baseball channel)

Quote from: cranebump;915673That said, as a lifelong white dude, with all the attendant advantages (and able to recognize the ones that were invisible to me, but not others), I have to say that the white male establishment bitching and moaning about unfairness is like King Kong complaining that the biplanes are too big and scary.

1- Absolutely no one is bitching about fairness or unfairness.  If you didn't have a horse in this race, you wouldn't be throwing out straw man arguments to deflect from the topic.  Don't try to re-frame the discussion just to invalidate opinions you dislike.

2- I love how people keep talking about these invisible advantages like everyone of a certain skin color has the same life experiences.

3- Those biplanes did kind of kill the big ape, for what it's worth.

Edited for decency's sake.  

Anyway, on the topic of players I've run off- or rather, someone that has been run off recently.

A while back my friend invited a prospective player over.  The guy was knowledgeable enough about Warhammer 40k, due to having played the game and sold his army off years ago.  He wanted to get back into it, but he explained that money was tight.  He is a very talented painter, and knows his armies quite well both fluff and crunch.  He was dedicated to coming over, meeting every weekend.  He even brought over pizzas from the place he works.

After some conversation, we decided to offer him a plan:  We'd pitch in and get him a ~1000 army if he'd cover 1/4 of the cost.  We'd assemble and he could paint them as he paid them off using our materials.  He agreed that this was fair- and even if he backed out on it, we'd still have an extra army sitting about for guests or something different to play with.  

We picked up a Tau force, with a few extras, and let him know it was paid for.  He IMMEDIATELY brought over his 1/4 payment and painted that night.  All in all, we thought we'd done well.  Since he'd paid for 1/4 up front, we let him choose which he 'owned' out of the force and let him paint.

So, the next week comes by and we don't hear a peep.  We call and he doesn't answer, and he texts back and says he's at work.  My friend went to the store to get some more clear coat-

Dude's standing at the table in this place with a full force in front of him.

I don't know how to process this, but now we have an unpainted chunk of these cunt-faced plasma-spamming Xenos.

Quote from: rgrove0172;913857Have you ever had the displeasure of having to remove a player from your game?

What were your reasons? How did you go about it? How did it go?

Nope, never have, hopefully never will.

Quote from: Headless;914299So there's a whole thread here about crumby things happening in our hobby.  Couple months back a woman over at Latining posted a series if really crappy things that have happened to her and that she has seen.  No one on this thread was there to stop them.  

Pundit then said dumb stuff.  Since we know that stuff like that happens, ie the above thread, anyone gonna suggest he apoligze?  

If he has already just point me at it.

You're full of shit. She was a liar who was trying to extort a gaming company into paying her money to censor their products, under threat of crying harassment to ruin them.

Quote from: Headless;914683I don't know what happened before.  None of the post go into much detail.  If their is a synopsis somewhere I  will be happy to read it.  

You could have read my fucking blog on the subject, where I gave the details, before you accused me rather than her of being the liar.

QuoteThe name of her post is 'white male terrisom'. When ever she calls attention to this stuff she gets screaming hate filled emails saying she lieing, she was asking for it, she will be raped and killed.  

Pundit then made a screaming hate filled post saying 'she's lieing and she was asking for it.'

I never said she asked for it. I said she's a fucking liar and opportunist with a known association with a whole bunch of other liars and opportunists and her specific complaints against the game company she attacked in her blog entry came after she:
a) mistakenly confused a character in the game named in honor of a computing pioneer (Ada Lovelace) with having a "sexist porn star name"
b) demanded that this company had to hire her as a censor to approve any future products and be paid for it
c) threatened them with accusations of misogyny, rape culture, etc. etc. ad nauseum if they didn't.
d) posted the "white male terrorism" thread after the aforementioned act of attempted terrorism was ignored and mocked by the company in question

So again, SHE IS A FUCKING LIAR and a scumbag out to cry 'rape' to make money and get power over others.

Quote from: Headless;914693I am asking this community to police the members of this community for what they say because it reflects on us.  

I am not asking pundit to apologies for all the dumb stuff he has said.  Just one specific thing.  And while it's simpler for us not to bother.  None of us are getting death threats.  None of us have the police telling us that they need to quit gaming or they are going to die.  Which is kind of the point.

Well guess what? Since it's now been demonstrated that you, in fact, are the moron who shot off his fat fucker mouth without bothering to educate his dumb ass, I'm demanding YOU apologize for your false accusations about me.

Quote from: Headless;914696But all of that is beside the point.  I am asking pundit to apologize for saying 'she was asking for it'. We have evidence he said that.

Do we? PLEASE, BITCH, show me exactly where I said "she was asking for it".

Quote from: daniel_ream;914765Not at all coincidentally, I bought this (https://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought-ebook/dp/B014GMBUR4) last week.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41S7%2BqrUYIL.jpg)

I should probably get that. Not sure how much I'd learn that I don't already know, though, but reminders would be nice.

Quote from: RPGPundit;916118She was a liar who was trying to extort a gaming company into paying her money to censor their products, under threat of crying harassment to ruin them.

Quote from: RPGPundit;916121You could have read my fucking blog on the subject, where I gave the details, before you accused me rather than her of being the liar.

Quote from: RPGPundit;916121So again, SHE IS A FUCKING LIAR and a scumbag out to cry 'rape' to make money and get power over others.

We don't know that. It's all as circumstantial as her own accusations. We cannot discard our criteria for truth just because we suspect someone else has.

We have to be better than that.

Quote from: RPGPundit;916122Well guess what? Since it's now been demonstrated that you, in fact, are the moron who shot off his fat fucker mouth without bothering to educate his dumb ass, I'm demanding YOU apologize for your false accusations about me.

I was going to I couldn't find you saying it the second time through but...

"I mean, what a load of nonsense. I'm sorry, but if you are imagining you are being raped all the time everywhere you go, you may want to consider it might be you." -Pundit.

Now what?

Also as far as I remember I didn't call you a liar.

What are we mad about? Some woman most likely lied about abuse to get attention? I wasn't aware that was a thing.

Remember, women never lie about abuse.

NEVER. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3763105/Millionaire-releases-surveillance-video-glamorous-ex-fiancee-beating-claiming-abused-vicious-divorce.html)

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;916160We don't know that. It's all as circumstantial as her own accusations. We cannot discard our criteria for truth just because we suspect someone else has.

We have to be better than that.

The burden of proof is on the person making the accusation.  Malicious accusations are not harmless, as far too may people who have tangled with malignant narcissists[1] have learned to their detriment.  She's failed to back up any of her malicious accusations, and on balance of probabilities her credibility is wanting.  She has a clear financial motive for her accusations.  I'm entirely comfortable dismissing her as a grifter.


[1] Or SJWs [2]
[2] But I repeat myself

Quote from: AaronBrown99;916192Remember, women never lie about abuse.

NEVER. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3763105/Millionaire-releases-surveillance-video-glamorous-ex-fiancee-beating-claiming-abused-vicious-divorce.html)

Fuuuuuuck...I didn't know that. This thread is really enlightening.

Quote from: Headless;916175"I mean, what a load of nonsense. I'm sorry, but if you are imagining you are being raped all the time everywhere you go, you may want to consider it might be you." -Pundit.

Now what?

If you're constantly imagining yourself to be the victim of crimes, it IS you.  It's a weird paranoia.  It's not the world, it's not culture, it's in your head and you have an unhealthy obsession.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;916160We don't know that. It's all as circumstantial as her own accusations. We cannot discard our criteria for truth just because we suspect someone else has.

We have to be better than that.

She's lying about it for some reason- at least the part about Wyrd staff sending her threats via email.

Pundit his here now.  I will wait for him to say what that passage means.  My reading is he is claiming that some action or behaviour of hers is causing her to be the target of sexual assault and harrasment.  But as I said I will wait for him to clairify.

No, he's claiming she's not actually being assaulted and harassed. And I agree.

This was asked earlier, but not answered: Who is/are "Vox Day?"

Quote from: Whitewings;916299This was asked earlier, but not answered: Who is/are "Vox Day?"

This will help. (http://bfy.tw/7TAE)

He's an American expat living in Italy. Author, editor/publisher, game designer, musician, award-winning cruelty artist.

Very funny guy, very good at triggering the triggerable.

Quote from: AaronBrown99;916192Remember, women never lie about abuse.

NEVER. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3763105/Millionaire-releases-surveillance-video-glamorous-ex-fiancee-beating-claiming-abused-vicious-divorce.html)

First Rule of Fight Club: Avoid Home Surveillance Systems

Quote from: Headless;916287Pundit his here now.  I will wait for him to say what that passage means.  My reading is he is claiming that some action or behaviour of hers is causing her to be the target of sexual assault and harrasment.  But as I said I will wait for him to clairify.

If she's acting like an obnoxious cunt, she'll be treated as one. Perhaps her dipshit behavior isn't being pandered to and she can't handle it, so her only defense is to use the feminist victim playbook. No, that couldn't be it, right? I mean, no women ever cried wolf to get attention or favor, did they? Surely not.

Stop playing with Headless you chucklenuts!

Remember my maxim - Arguing with a SJW is like wrestling with a shit covered retard. You can display all your most masterful moves, but in the end, you're covered in shit and they are still retarded.

That horrific "woman" (its the net, so who knows?) did nothing but damage to actual female gamers with her white male terrorist bullshit. It's an utter shame, but the price of freedom of speech is SJWs and Stormfront.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;915009Nobody elected me Sheriff of Gaming.

I'll elect you Sheriff if you elect me Executioner.

Quote from: Crüesader;915684I don't know how to process this, but now we have an unpainted chunk of these cunt-faced plasma-spamming Xenos.

Call the dude. Ask him WTF?

Based on his early behavior, his confusing later behavior might have an explanation.

But its weird. Like Lucy, that dude has some 'splaining to do!

Quote from: Headless;916175"I mean, what a load of nonsense. I'm sorry, but if you are imagining you are being raped all the time everywhere you go, you may want to consider it might be you." -Pundit.

Now what?

Now we wait for you to produce that quote of him saying she asked for it since what you just quoted doesn't say that.

Quote from: Spinachcat;916324Call the dude. Ask him WTF?

Based on his early behavior, his confusing later behavior might have an explanation.

But its weird. Like Lucy, that dude has some 'splaining to do!

Very weird.  He apparently hasn't responded to much in the way of game invitations.  Current theory was that he was trying to squeeze something free out of us.

Quote from: Headless;916175I was going to I couldn't find you saying it the second time through but...

"I mean, what a load of nonsense. I'm sorry, but if you are imagining you are being raped all the time everywhere you go, you may want to consider it might be you." -Pundit.

Now what?

Also as far as I remember I didn't call you a liar.

Why do you care? Honestly, why? Even if a person says, "All bitches needs be raped!", what does it matter? People can be assholes and provocative. It's the Internet, for poop's sake. Do you silence such people? Nope. Personally, I want rattlesnakes to have their rattles, you know?

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;916377It's the Internet, for poop's sake. Do you silence such people?

Don't give him any ideas.

Quote from: Headless;914696this is no longer a safe place.

World has never been a safe place.

Quote from: Moracai;916386World has never been a safe place.

Amen, brother! Headless...seriously...I say this with as much love and compassion as I can muster: Walk it the fuck off.

"Safe space"? Seriously? Do you realize how unsafe your desire to silence people is? I'm going to jump in front of the SJW railgun with, "A woman exists to serve and please men and her mouth exists for the insertion of food and dick, presumably the former keeping her alive for the latter. Nothing should exit said mouth, especially words"*.

Did any women just get raped because of that? Die of space herpes? Noooooope. Know why? Because as offensive as somebody might find that, it came from a guy online with a fat kitty avatar who has a Star Wars joke as a name. Meaning, it doesn't matter. I'm not a "Pundit expert" but I do know this: he created this website and some cool games. He made things, even if they're just needless entertainment, he created. Quite a few other people here have done/do the same. Those things can't exist in an ever-tightening world of censorship and wrong-think. Look at how damaged so much of this hobby has become because of SJW bullshit, far too much coming from fuckheads who don't even game! As an example, I was looking at some RPG thread on The Purple Truncheon and its bad-ass art, and what were people chiming in on? The rules? No. The setting? No. It was the amount of sexy female characters and if there were enough women in the first place. Holy fucking shit, that is retarded!

Your headspace exists to confine, which is bad. How don't you see that this is a pretty damn safe space? Are there rules here? Sure. Pundit's house, Pundit's rules. AFAIK know, blatant racism and pedophilia are a non-no, which I agree with. Hell, I made a joke in poor taste and was called on it, but I wasn't banned. I apologized and we all moved on. On many other sites, just the perception of a "personal attack" gets you banned. What happens when you're on the receiving end of a ban because you spoke your mind, which happens FAR more often in Barneyland than here? Here, you might be called a dick or treated poorly, even put on "Ignore", but I haven't seen too many bans. Be very careful the world you wish for. If that doesn't work, there's a pretty safe space you can go to: offline.

*No, I don't believe that at all, which I really hope is clear! :)

Response part 2

Uggg.  Ok, I knew I was in for it when I opened this can of worms.  None of this is unexpected.  I was hoping for a little bit of agreement but ok, if I am on my own so be it.  

First I am not a social justice warrior.  I am not fighting hard enough to have earned that title.  

Second I am not censoring any one, or suggesting any kind of action be taken.

Pundit said something I think should not have been said, and I was asking for agreement from you that it should not have been said.  Now I am waiting on a clarification on what was intended by the cited passage.  I can see your interpretation but I think it is asking for a more careful reading and more charitable audience than can reasonably be expected on the internet. That is a completely pointless discussion though so I will wait on Pundit to clarify.

Now most of what I am getting is "she's a crazy lieing bitch." And "there is no problem in gaming." Not helpful. First I don't care if she is a "crazy lieing bitch" I am not interested in her actions.  
I can see the frustration if she is trying to leverage a political movement into a career opportunity.  I have also met plenty of people who say they want to change the social order only to discover they just want to change their position in it.  

Now as to the truth of her claims.  In the article she spends only the briefest time talking about Wyrd minatures. As I said I'm not so interested in that part.  The substance of her article is "shitty stuff is happening and no one will fix it."  I think that's true.  As I said originally I think this thread is evidence that the first part is true.  Shitty stuff is happening.  On a small private scale people are doing stuff about it.  This thread is also evidence of that.  Her specific examples are nearly all in game stores and Con's.  I think that stuff is happening more where people are able to say "no one elected me sheriff of this con" but I'm 6'4" and male and none of that happened to me at the few cons I went to so I don't really know.  

The final part, the White Male Terrorism part.  Well yes.  Trigger warning.  I know this is going to set some people off. (If you can't tell I'm trolling you when I talk about trigger warnings, because I know those words will trigger you)

‘Gamergate': Feminist video game critic Anita Sarkeesian cancels Utah lecture after threat
By Soraya Nadia McDonald October 15, 2014

What do you call that if not a terrorist threat.  I call that a problem.  Maybe the writer who wanted the job at Wyrd wasn't being target by terrorist emails and threats, but they are happening. Where were all you lovers of free speech for that?  What happened to "I Dtisapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It." Voltaire or possibly not.  

As for the world not being a safe place.  Of course not, but we can try and make it one right.  

Finally why should I care?  This is the most important thing to happen to gaming in any of our life times.  And yes I am including the people that started the hobby.

There is more to say but I don't feel capable right now of explaining that the first two things of any victim of sexual harassment or assault hears is "you are lying" and "it must be something you did."  Or how that makes victims feel.  and that it makes predators feel safe.  Nor should I have to, I think most of you know that, and would agree with me if you weren't feeling under attack.

Quote from: Headless;916428First I am not a social justice warrior.  I am not fighting hard enough to have earned that title.

Ohhhhh, yes you are.

QuoteSecond I am not censoring any one, or suggesting any kind of action be taken [...] I was asking for agreement from you that it should not have been said.

What do you call that, then?

QuoteNow most of what I am getting is "she's a crazy lieing bitch." And "there is no problem in gaming." Not helpful. First I don't care if she is a "crazy lieing bitch" I am not interested in her actions.

Right.  The truth doesn't matter, only the narrative.

QuoteI can see the frustration if she is trying to leverage a political movement into a career opportunity.

She's not trying to leverage a political movement.  She's engaging in legally actionable libel and blackmail.

QuoteNow as to the truth of her claims.  In the article she spends only the briefest time talking about Wyrd minatures. As I said I'm not so interested in that part.  The substance of her article is "shitty stuff is happening and no one will fix it."  I think that's true.

Why?  She has zero credibility.  You want to throw away all the evidence that she's a manipulative liar and cherry-pick out the thing that makes you feel all warm and SJW-fuzzy so you can play moral superiority games with the rest of us.

Oh, son, did you pick the wrong forum to pull this con.

Quote‘Gamergate': Feminist video game critic Anita Sarkeesian cancels Utah lecture after threat
By Soraya Nadia McDonald October 15, 2014

What do you call that if not a terrorist threat.  I call that a problem.

I call it "more serial lying by Anita Sarkeesian, a known grifter and con artist".

Sarkeesian's claims of death threats and online abuse have been repeatedly examined and found to be either trivial or not credible.  Like, by the police and the FBI.

QuoteFinally why should I care?  This is the most important thing to happen to gaming in any of our life times.  And yes I am including the people that started the hobby.

You're right, the infestation of the hobby by self-appointed moral busybodies like yourself is a watershed moment.  That you turds managed to get a pro-tranny paragraph inserted into the current D&D edition is a pretty big deal.  Fortunately, your side is losing this war.

QuoteThere is more to say but I don't feel capable right now of explaining that the first two things of any victim of sexual harassment or assault hears is "you are lying" and "it must be something you did."

Well, that's because it's total bullshit.  Claiming sexual assault or harassment is a one-way ticket to fame, attention, and a firehose of uncritical support for a woman, which is why so many of them are cynically using it as such.  If you have a problem with the fact that people are starting not to take claims of sexual assault and harassment at face value, then convince women to stop lying about it.

First off, kudos to you for a polite response. I'm keying in on one part of it: Anita Suckskeezian getting a "terrorist threat". Really? By that reasoning any threat is terrorism because it may be terrifying. No. Is there proof of a death threat? I dunno. But, given the litany of utter bullshit and lies that retarded cunt has spewed for attention through playing the victim, I'm highly suspect.

Look, people are going to reap what they sow. In her case, she's reaping the well-deserved vitriol of those many people who see her for what she is: a clever charlatan who found patronage in the stupidity of far too many people. She's an obnoxious shit who's only marketable skill is victimhood and championing causes nobody needs fought. What's funny (sad? scary?) is how many people are too stupid to see it.

When SJWs push and push and push lie after lie after lie, the real issues that need to be addressed are washed out. All these stupid buzzwords about "safe spaces" and "triggering" are to protect weak-minded/willed infants who can't handle the realization that they are not, in fact, special for merely existing. So, when there's yet another dumb-ass crying "white, male [insert catchphrase]" about being harrased or raped on a gaming forum instead of pushing it through proper legal means, I don't give a 1/4 fuck about their plight. She didn't vent to friends online in a private forum and it was made public, she cried like a baby over the same shit, disparaging white, male gamers and calling them terrorists. Maybe one day, these idiots will grow the fuck up and be the change they want to see instead of trying to hammer everyone else into their boxes.

Shouldn't this topic be over in Punditry?

Quote from: daniel_ream;916434Ohhhhh, yes you are.



What do you call that, then?



Right.  The truth doesn't matter, only the narrative.



She's not trying to leverage a political movement.  She's engaging in legally actionable libel and blackmail.



Why?  She has zero credibility.  You want to throw away all the evidence that she's a manipulative liar and cherry-pick out the thing that makes you feel all warm and SJW-fuzzy so you can play moral superiority games with the rest of us.

Oh, son, did you pick the wrong forum to pull this con.



I call it "more serial lying by Anita Sarkeesian, a known grifter and con artist".

Sarkeesian's claims of death threats and online abuse have been repeatedly examined and found to be either trivial or not credible.  Like, by the police and the FBI.



You're right, the infestation of the hobby by self-appointed moral busybodies like yourself is a watershed moment.  That you turds managed to get a pro-tranny paragraph inserted into the current D&D edition is a pretty big deal.  Fortunately, your side is losing this war.



Well, that's because it's total bullshit.  Claiming sexual assault or harassment is a one-way ticket to fame, attention, and a firehose of uncritical support for a woman, which is why so many of them are cynically using it as such.  If you have a problem with the fact that people are starting not to take claims of sexual assault and harassment at face value, then convince women to stop lying about it.

Two things:

1) This response is so awesome I have an erection; 2) Um...what tranny-paragraph?! I need to read this!

Boop! Found a link with it. It's silly but if it makes the morons do a happy dance, whatever. If that's a victory for SJWs, maybe we'll be OK. :)

Quote from: Bren;916441Shouldn't this topic be over in Punditry?

I guess. I'm still pretty new here. But, what thread ever stays OT, especially when infected by such shenanigans?

Quote from: Headless;916428Response part 2

Uggg.  Ok, I knew I was in for it when I opened this can of worms.  None of this is unexpected.  I was hoping for a little bit of agreement but ok, if I am on my own so be it.

Don't pull your penis out and expect everyone to tell you it's big and majestic.  Even if it is, people will tell you it's not.

Quote from: Headless;916428First I am not a social justice warrior.  I am not fighting hard enough to have earned that title.

"Social Justice Warrior" and "Fight" go together like "North Korea" and "Dream Vacation".  You might mean you haven't whined hard enough.  But you have.  

Quote from: Headless;916428Second I am not censoring any one, or suggesting any kind of action be taken.

Asking for an apology is asking for action to be taken.

Quote from: Headless;916428Pundit said something I think should not have been said, and I was asking for agreement from you that it should not have been said.  Now I am waiting on a clarification on what was intended by the cited passage.  I can see your interpretation but I think it is asking for a more careful reading and more charitable audience than can reasonably be expected on the internet. That is a completely pointless discussion though so I will wait on Pundit to clarify.

You insinuate that because people disagree with your interpretation that they aren't 'charitable' or 'good at reading'?  Way to try and frame your ideological adversaries the way you want them to be seen.  How SJW of you.

Quote from: Headless;916428Now most of what I am getting is "she's a crazy lieing bitch." And "there is no problem in gaming." Not helpful. First I don't care if she is a "crazy lieing bitch" I am not interested in her actions.

I do.  Especially when she's asking people to harass the company that refused to cater to her demands, and she refuses to provide the evidence said company has been sending her threats.  That, my friend- you should care about.  I'm starting to think that no part of you has ever been inside a woman, as gullible as you are.  Stop being a fucking moron and think with something that isn't in shit-stained sweatpants.
 

Quote from: Headless;916428I can see the frustration if she is trying to leverage a political movement into a career opportunity.  I have also met plenty of people who say they want to change the social order only to discover they just want to change their position in it.

You're right, she isn't.  She's trying to harass a company.

Quote from: Headless;916428Now as to the truth of her claims.  In the article she spends only the briefest time talking about Wyrd minatures. As I said I'm not so interested in that part.  The substance of her article is "shitty stuff is happening and no one will fix it."  I think that's true.  As I said originally I think this thread is evidence that the first part is true.  Shitty stuff is happening.  On a small private scale people are doing stuff about it.  This thread is also evidence of that.  Her specific examples are nearly all in game stores and Con's.  I think that stuff is happening more where people are able to say "no one elected me sheriff of this con" but I'm 6'4" and male and none of that happened to me at the few cons I went to so I don't really know.

No, you colossal fucking moron.  She starts with an accusation that people from Wyrd miniatures have been emailing her threats.  She finishes by asking us to email and call them on her behalf.  With no evidence.  Everything else is irrelevant.  And notice she was clever enough to hide all details of when these cons were so REAL action could be taken (Like contacting the security company that allegedly tried to hide the alleged rape, the Police Department that allegedly refused to take a report, the store that allegedly sexually harassed a child).  Are you seeing it yet?  Stop white-knighting, she's not going to fuck you, and THINK about this critically.  

Quote from: Headless;916428The final part, the White Male Terrorism part.  Well yes.  Trigger warning.  I know this is going to set some people off. (If you can't tell I'm trolling you when I talk about trigger warnings, because I know those words will trigger you)

‘Gamergate': Feminist video game critic Anita Sarkeesian cancels Utah lecture after threat
By Soraya Nadia McDonald October 15, 2014

Proof this was a white male?

Quote from: Headless;916428What do you call that if not a terrorist threat.  I call that a problem.  Maybe the writer who wanted the job at Wyrd wasn't being target by terrorist emails and threats, but they are happening. Where were all you lovers of free speech for that?  What happened to "I Dtisapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It." Voltaire or possibly not.

Lying about a threat is enough to land you in jail.   I'll turn your lackwit logic on its head:  You didn't molest my child.  I'll accuse you of it, publicly.  Of course it didn't happen, but it happens to other kids and other people do it- right?  

Sorry, man:  This whole 'baww someone mailed me a threat' shit is getting old.  Ever spoken with law enforcement?  There's a word they use:  'Credible'.  As in 'Credible' threat of violence.  A screeching 13-year old on his first troll-spree isn't cause for concern.

Quote from: Headless;916428As for the world not being a safe place.  Of course not, but we can try and make it one right.

You seem to be slow and confused.  Zero tolerance does not mean zero incident.

Quote from: Headless;916428Finally why should I care?  This is the most important thing to happen to gaming in any of our life times.  And yes I am including the people that started the hobby.

No, it isn't.  She isn't the first nor will she be the last woman to lie for attention and fabricate sexual assaults, threats, etc.

Quote from: Headless;916428There is more to say but I don't feel capable right now of explaining that the first two things of any victim of sexual harassment or assault hears is "you are lying" and "it must be something you did."  Or how that makes victims feel.  and that it makes predators feel safe.  Nor should I have to, I think most of you know that, and would agree with me if you weren't feeling under attack.

No, it isn't.  Liars hear that and get upset.

Headless, if I read you correctly, you said that you're not actually interested in this person's actions, but only how other people reacted. That's your whole problem right there.

Quote from: Spinachcat;916324I'll elect you Sheriff if you elect me Executioner.

And have to deal with the Sarkessians of the world? "If nominated I will not run; if elected I will not serve."  Bleh.

Here's a true story: So, I went to a game store in Anchorage, AK (I forget the name) to meet a guy who works there because we both played Exalted. I bring my wife and my two daughters. One is 9 and the other is 7. After becoming very good friends with the guy, he tells me that a coworker of his had seen my oldest daughter during that first meeting and said, "Mmmm, I'd like a piece of that". Those. Exact. Words. I haven't forgotten them. I also haven't forgotten that my buddy punched the perv in the chest so hard that he fell on his ass gasping for air. I know this incident happened because his other coworkers corroborated the story.

What's my point? Well, for one I didn't suddenly avoid the store, call for the guy's firing or such. The guy was made very well aware of his failure as a person. When I asked why my buddy didn't say anything then, he told me he'd taken care of it and only wanted me to know what had happened. I still went there, with my family. I wasn't stupid and I realized there are bad people in the world, but I wasn't going to wrap my kids in spiked Otter boxes in their rooms. The guy's comments, while deplorable, didn't hurt my kid. I just made damn sure he knew that I knew and all it took was a look. I did what I always did and raised and protected my kids as best I could.

So when I hear about ruined lives over baseless accusations where the "victim" doesn't take proper action or tries to make the world suffer, I get pissed. Actions have consequences and you adjust accordingly. Unless you're an SJW. Then you just blame everyone else for your failures.

Quote from: Kellri;916471Headless, if I read you correctly, you said that you're not actually interested in this person's actions, but only how other people reacted. That's your whole problem right there.

Point.  I can do jack shit and fuck all for this girl whether I believe her or not.  What I believe is pointless.  

Of course if you want to know why I'm hesitant?  I've seen people outright fabricate even worse stories for attention.

An ex of mine claimed one of her mom's boyfriends used to molest her when he drank, so she didn't want me to drink.  She would tell me these horrifying stories about how he would do awful things to her.  In detail.  I would get sick.  I would be in tears.  A year after I broke up with her, I found out this guy didn't even fucking exist.

I sat and listened to a guy talk about PTSD from pulling parts of dead kids from a shot-up compound in Iraq when he was fighting over there.  He had never even made it through basic training.

When I was 21, I met a girl at a club and made out with her once.  We were drunk.  She wanted to get a hotel but I was too drunk to do anything, so I said I'd call her.  When I did, her boyfriend answered and she claimed I'd been stalking her for weeks.  I was accused of sexual harassment, and luckily I didn't get UCMJ action because I had a phone bill.  Then the guy tried to hunt me down and fight me, and she was with him when he did.

One of my war buddies' wife would call the MP's every time they had an argument, and claim he was beating her and the kids.  Military Police always have to remove the husband from the residence for 72 hours.  Then his wife would fuck the neighbor.

In the last unit I was in, 1 female soldier got recommended for UCMJ action for constantly being late.  Then she and 4 other female soldiers conspired together to accuse the Sergeant that wrote the recommendation of sexual harassment and possibly sexual assault.  They literally wrote out a 'script' for how it happened and rehearsed it.  One of their roommates found out about it, got the script and handed it over.

A woman once insulted me in the parking lot for having 'loud pipes' on my bike (they were still factory pipes).  I called her a ditzy whore.  She swung at me with her purse and kept trying to hit me.  When I stood up, she screamed 'rape!'  A big black lady was there and said, "You a lyin' hoe, too!"  (I bought that big black woman Starbucks.)

In the very early 1990's, a girl stood in front of the congressional human rights caucus and claimed that when Iraq invaded Kuwait, their military was killing babies in the hospital where she work.  She didn't work in the hospital, she was the ambassador's daughter, and the only kids that died in that hospital were the ones that hospital staff abandoned.  

Headless: You'll have to pardon me if my exposure to reality makes me less inclined to believe any old bitch with a blog and a sob story.  Just as appalling as the person's stories are, you must understand that people fabricate stories like this.  Yes, it's revolting.  Just as revolting as the real thing.  

It fucking happens.  When people want you to do something, many times they'll feed you a terrible story.  So before you ask, "Who would fabricate a story like this?"  Shitty fucking people.  You said this thread was proof of shitty people, so there you have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_story

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deviancy_amplification_spiral

I had some issues with certain left-wing celebrity "dissidents" who, while writing from their comfortable offices in NYC, down-played or completely denied the Khmer Rouge was killing their own people. I had problems with certain Cambodians who did the same, often while living in the same villages where hundreds of their own neighbors were murdered. Still other people told stories of atrocities (or the lack of them) that were absurdly lacking in the kind of detail that rings true. I decided the ONLY way to find out the truth was to go there, track down almost everyone I could who was willing to talk about it, and get some answers. Those answers were not pleasant and it took years. In the process, I discovered that sussing out who was lying and who was telling the truth was often a matter of getting right up in someone's face and looking closely when they talked about whatever it was they were talking about. People like to dishonestly deny or dishonestly make up stories about bad things happening for a lot of different reasons but it all boils down to one thing - they are ugly cunts who have no respect for the truth and don't deserve mine or anyone else's respect.

So Headless, don't assume anything based simply on your own or anyone else's reaction. Find out for yourself. Then find out some more. After you've done all that, report your conclusions. But don't come around looking for apologies based on nothing but your assumptions. That's foolish.

Look I am interested in actions.  But as the last two people have pointed out there is no way for any of us to tell from here the truth of her claims.  They ring true to me, they ring false to you.  Fine, however no one deserves to be raped or asulted or any of the stuff that she claimed happened.   Victim blaming is common, ugly, and perpetuates the problem.  

Pundit was blameing the victim. Or I though he was so that what I was focusing on.  

Crusader: I am saying that. I may not have read that passage correctly, I did not give a charitable interpratation.   My interpratation should be expected since this is the internet a most people read only every third word or so but I will wait for clarification.  

Stop fighting me on everything.

Quote from: Headless;916552Look I am interested in actions.  But as the last two people have pointed out there is no way for any of us to tell from here the truth of her claims.  They ring true to me, they ring false to you.  Fine, however no one deserves to be raped or asulted or any of the stuff that she claimed happened.   Victim blaming is common, ugly, and perpetuates the problem.

No one is saying that anyone deserves this.  Of course, what makes these problems harder to take seriously is the plethora of false claims made to leverage personal gain.  Victim blaming isn't nearly as common as falsified claims.  

So, let's analyze this shit she posted.

Quote from: Latining;916552Since July of 2015 fans of the game Malifaux have been attempting to overwhelm me with death and rape threats for no other reason than I am a woman who has opinions on the game. Wyrd Miniatures is silent on this matter and hangs up whenever anyone attempts to discuss the harassment. Given that a large number of threats identify the senders by name as Wyrd staff members, I do not find this surprising.

But that’s not what this article is about.

That is the first part of her blog post.

Quote from: Latining;916552As for Wyrd, despite this egregious and dangerous misstep I want to believe their hearts are in the right place. Call them at [NUMBER REMOVED] or fill out a feedback form and let them know that you want a game free from harassment. If only they spent as much effort protecting their female fans from harassment as they do themselves from criticism.

Funny thing about email threats.  I keep repeating this:  The evidence is easy to provide, a simple screenshot of these emails and messages would be adequate.  If she showed this, I'd gladly join her harassment campaign against Wyrd miniatures.

Here's the thing:  I give most people the benefit of the doubt.  But she's yet to produce these threatening emails.  The owner of Wyrd miniatures has asked for them so he can actually FIX the problems and this woman has failed to produce them.  You lie once, I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously.  Again, you can say they ring true all you want.  I'm saying that people who want to be persuasive and manipulate people will go to any length, as I stated- lying about child molestation, war trauma, rape, and all manner of things.  

You want to know what the actual problem with our fucking hobby is, dude?  Guys with no balls.  Guys who are so scared to be called 'bigot' or 'asshole' or 'misogynist' that they can't stand up for the sake of reason and use a bit of their brainpower, they just roll over and start licking the bootheels of any POC or Woman or LGBT that comes along- you REALLY think these categories of people don't have scumbags that know they can extort a sniveling little white he-bitch?  Guys who are so desperate for female attention that they're willing to burn it all down for the first mentally unhinged chick that whines about something.  Guys so desperate to be 'inclusive' that you haven't stopped to realize that you're playing a fucking game where you can be anything you want and the only thing stopping you from doing this are the people you spend time with.  A bunch of goonybeard loser men that are so terrified of better males, that they've outright circled the wagon with the worst forms of life that our species has created since we made life too easy for people to worry about real problems.  Yes, we have a white male terrorism problem.  It's just not who you want to think it is.

Pause right here and think for a moment:  Did women just start gaming in 2014?  No, they fucking didn't.  But recently, all the spineless neckfat fedora-boys are running scared and they're convinced that if they side with people like 'Latining' they'll get someone's hand down their cargo shorts.  Dumb little boys that were so convinced they're 'gentlemen', and all those other guys are just asshole pigs- now's their chance to try and woo some pussy. This couldn't be more fucking obvious than a windowless van with 'FREE CANDY' painted on it, parked by a playground.

Let me paint a relevant picture for you:  You know how hard it is these days to recon an area for gaming, and hope to the God-Emperor that one of these loons won't come your way?  Do you know that because of women like the one behind the 'Latining' post, I'm absolutely nervous about bringing new female gamers over- because I'm pretty sure these attention-seeking types are desperate to write their own rape-story blog and ruin someone's life- and because of guys like you, the bitch wouldn't even need a shred of evidence to ruin the lives of me and my friends.  Unhinged bitches like 'Latining' have done more to harm the inclusion of women in gaming than any sweaty circle-jerk of perverts ever could- these days, it's fucking roulette.  

If you spent ten fucking minutes reading this thread you'd see that we do have a healthy zero-tolerance policy.  People are actively running folks off- whether they're mentally ill, perverted, or just awful.  You keep saying that this is 'evidence'.  No, it fucking isn't.  A zero-tolerance policy does not mean zero-incident.  We have zero tolerance for rape, murder, theft- and under threat of imprisonment or even execution- people still do this shit.  Whatever world you live in where simply 'having no tolerance' for something means it won't ever happen?  Crawl out of it, because it's not 'reality'.

So what if Pundit, or anyone, does "blame the victim"? Seriously, who cares? It's people on the Internet not a jury or legal counsel. If a woman was actually raped, with evidence to prove it and the man went to jail, someone blaming her doesn't suddenly free the rapist. It's opinion and nothing else. Headless, you truly are.

I'd rather masturbate to videos of Lena Dunham scissoring Hillary Clinton than have to ever truly deal with this SJW bullshit in real life.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;916564...Lena Dunham scissoring Hillary Clinton...

Dude.  Naw.

Dude.

Quote from: Headless;916552Look I am interested in actions.  But as the last two people have pointed out there is no way for any of us to tell from here the truth of her claims.  They ring true to me, they ring false to you.  Fine, however no one deserves to be raped or asulted or any of the stuff that she claimed happened.   Victim blaming is common, ugly, and perpetuates the problem.  

There most certainly is a way to find out. You ask - and if the person (like the person in question here) is unwilling to provide any proof, when such proof most certainly would exist, then you have your answer. The problem is that you don't want to accept that answer and instead want to focus on some increasingly absurd abstract notion of defending a victim - even in the face of no acceptable measure of proof there ever was a victim.

Quote from: Headless;916552Stop fighting me on everything.

That's really it isn't it? You, like the woman you claim to be defending, just want people to stop arguing with you, lay down, and accept your version of reality since your asinine interpretation should be expected because this is the internet. You want zero-tolerance - well, I've got zero-tolerance for that kind of idiotic horseshit.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;916567Dude.  Naw.

Dude.

It's a powerfully nauseating image...

Women and men often don't want to tell any one about the incident because of the shame and humiliation they feel.  A rape kit is an invasive procedure that can feel like being violated all over again.  
No one here is in law enforcement so we don't get evidence.  Not our role.  It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.  Which is what I was suggesting and what you are doing to me.  I am not complaining just observing.  

Second based on your response to me I doubt evidence would change any ones opinion on who to punish.  No one claimed pundit didn't say "she was asking for it" only that she was a bad person.  Going on in great detail about the evils she had done.  You weren't interested in evidence before.  I find it hard to believe you would be interested in evidence that didn't support you position now.  (Recognizing that the meaning of the passage is under dispute and awaiting clarification)

You guys are strawmaning the shit out of me.  I never said 'zero tolerance.'  When I said stop fighting me on everything' it was the 'everything' that was important.  You interpreted an admission of possible fault on my part as another volley launched.  


That's all for now.

Quote from: Headless;916597Women and men often don't want to tell any one about the incident because of the shame and humiliation they feel.  A rape kit is an invasive procedure that can feel like being violated all over again.  
No one here is in law enforcement so we don't get evidence.  Not our role.  It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.  Which is what I was suggesting and what you are doing to me.  I am not complaining just observing.  

Second based on your response to me I doubt evidence would change any ones opinion on who to punish.  No one claimed pundit didn't say "she was asking for it" only that she was a bad person.  Going on in great detail about the evils she had done.  You weren't interested in evidence before.  I find it hard to believe you would be interested in evidence that didn't support you position now.  (Recognizing that the meaning of the passage is under dispute and awaiting clarification)

You guys are strawmaning the shit out of me.  I never said 'zero tolerance.'  When I said stop fighting me on everything' it was the 'everything' that was important.  You interpreted an admission of possible fault on my part as another volley launched.  


That's all for now.

If someone is saying "People did this to me, therefore I want you to take this action against those people." I damn well BETTER get some evidence. I'm not going to become part of some lying ass's personal lynch mob thankyouverymuch.

Quote from: Headless;916597It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.

Are you fucking serious? Wait...wait. Yes. Yes, you are. Fuck you and fuck your policing of others. And fuck any sense of comedy or cheeriness in a back and forth. Your mindest is nearly stupid can be and may the tuncheon you wish to fall upon those you feel commit thought crimes, find its way up your ass. Maybe then you'll get why your mindset has been...and continues to be...the seed of millions of innocent deaths. When I find a time machine, I'll be sure to send you back to the totalitarian regime of your choice so you can police others for a pat on the head from your masters. You total fuckwit...

Sieg heil!

Quote from: Headless;916552Look I am interested in actions.  

Actually, it looks like you are interested in manipulating people into having a specific reaction that you approve of, no matter what.

Quote from: Headless;916552Stop fighting me on everything.

Talk about gaming instead of Social Justice, you might find some agreement.

Quote from: Headless;916597No one here is in law enforcement.....

How do you know? People in law enforcement are gamers too. The one that comes immediately to mind is Darth Tang.

Quote from: Headless;916597You weren't interested in evidence before.  I find it hard to believe you would be interested in evidence that didn't support you position now.

It is not that the evidence that exists which inform these opinions against you is biased. It is information, it does not have an opinion. It just does not support this story that you want told to bring about the actions you prefer.

Quote from: Headless;916597It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.

And that's exactly what we're doing. We're policing your increasingly cunty behaviour by calling you on your increasingly cunty behaviour.

That sword has two edges, don'cha know.

EDIT:  Jesus, Alderaan.  Not enough brain bleach in the world, man.

Quote from: daniel_ream;916620EDIT:  Jesus, Alderaan.  Not enough brain bleach in the world, man.

Whoa! Don't judge my pain. You don't know what I've been through. This is a saaaafe spaaaaaace... ;)

Quote from: Headless;916552They ring true to me, they ring false to you.

Claim: Wyrd employees sent her violent threatening emails.
CEO of Wyrd: Send them to me so I can fire those responsible.
Result: {Crickets}

If that rings true to you, you're a fucking idiot.

Quote from: Crüesader;916558Funny thing about email threats.  I keep repeating this:  The evidence is easy to provide, a simple screenshot of these emails and messages would be adequate.  If she showed this, I'd gladly join her harassment campaign against Wyrd miniatures.

Screenshots can easily be falsified.

Quote from: daniel_ream;916620EDIT:  Jesus, Alderaan.  Not enough brain bleach in the world, man.

My brain was quick enough to pretend it was Lena Headey and Hillary Duff.

Quote from: CRKrueger;916639My brain was quick enough to pretend it was Lena Headey and Hillary Duff.

MUCH sexier! :D

I was going for a nightmare. I see it worked. ;) More seriously, SJW tactics disgust me that much, as I'm sure they do for many others. That games have been banned/changed, creators censured and a host of other things, is truly vile. It's not because it's my hobby, it's that it's a dangerous train of thought that quickly gains speed. It's bred and nurtured in a vapid nursery of evil that has so many times grown into much worse. I don't think SJWs bitching about rape culture on a gaming site will create the next Holocaust, but left unchecked, that collective mindset being applied to more and more important things will be exceedingly bad.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;916645I don't think SJWs bitching about rape culture on a gaming site will create the next Holocaust

I wouldn't be so sure.  Their tactics and mindset are exactly the same as Mao's Cultural Revolution, and that ended with cannibalism.  I am fully prepared to believe that given the power and no consequences, some of these people would commit mass incarceration and murder.

Quote from: Headless;916552Look I am interested in actions.  But as the last two people have pointed out there is no way for any of us to tell from here the truth of her claims.  They ring true to me, they ring false to you.  Fine, however no one deserves to be raped or asulted or any of the stuff that she claimed happened.   Victim blaming is common, ugly, and perpetuates the problem.

Saying that it rings true to you is another way of saying that you believe it because you want to believe it.

Let's look at this victim blaming language.  It assumes that these events actually happened right from the beginning.  If they didn't, there is no victim.  She failed to provide any details about any of these alleged incidents that could be used to verify or disprove them and failed to provide any evidence of the threats she said she received even though she should logically be able to.  Activists pushing a similar narrative have been caught lying about such incidents in the past.  If this stuff didn't happen then there is no victim and there's no real evidence beyond a vague anecdote that it happened at all.  

Quote from: Headless;916552Pundit was blameing the victim. Or I though he was so that what I was focusing on.

You can only blame the victim if there is a victim to blame.  If she fabricated this stuff, there is no victim.  Saying that she is a victim being blamed assumes that what she says is true even though she obfuscates details that could be used to check her story and can't or won't provide evidence when she should be able to.  This is called begging the question.

Quote from: Headless;916552Crusader: I am saying that. I may not have read that passage correctly, I did not give a charitable interpratation.   My interpratation should be expected since this is the internet a most people read only every third word or so but I will wait for clarification.

I just read what it said.  It doesn't say what you claim it says.

Quote from: Headless;916552Stop fighting me on everything.

Stop posting rubbish.

Quote from: Headless;916597Women and men often don't want to tell any one about the incident because of the shame and humiliation they feel.  A rape kit is an invasive procedure that can feel like being violated all over again.

That's only the case if the person was violated in the first place.  For a false rape allegation, that didn't happen.  Again, you are assuming that a rape took place when that has not actually been proven or, in this case, before any evidence has even been collected.
 

Quote from: Headless;916597No one here is in law enforcement so we don't get evidence.  Not our role.  It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.  Which is what I was suggesting and what you are doing to me.  I am not complaining just observing.

People lie and SJWs lie a lot.  People pushing this sort of narrative have been caught lying too many times for me to simply believe whatever they say.  I want something more than that.  I want evidence.  Evidence is not just for courts of law.  It's necessary for any serious discussion if you want anyone to take you at all seriously.  

Quote from: Headless;916597No one claimed pundit didn't say "she was asking for it"

I did.  The quote you posted from him did not say that.

Quote from: Omega;916638Screenshots can easily be falsified.

This is all the more reason to think she's faking: she has failed to provide any evidence, even easily faked evidence.

Quote from: Headless;916597A rape kit is an invasive procedure that can feel like being violated all over again.

Until someone finds a new way to collect evidence, this is what has to happen.  Unless we're going back to the primitive age where all we need is an accusation.  

A surgical procedure is also fucking invasive and uncomfortable.  But the other option is 'die'.  So, either do the rape kit or your rapist isn't going to get justice.  

The Outrage Brigade's resistance to anything designed to scientifically investigate and legally prosecute rapists makes me wonder if they simply want it to keep happening, or they know that a shitload of people lie about it.  
 

Quote from: Headless;916597No one here is in law enforcement so we don't get evidence.

When someone is asking for my support and action, yes.  I do get evidence.  Sorry, I don't put myself on the line for everyone with a story.  That's how you get fucked over.  

Quote from: Headless;916597It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.

No, it isn't.  

Quote from: Headless;916597Second based on your response to me I doubt evidence would change any ones opinion on who to punish.

Yes, it would.  Evidence is all we're asking for when she's asking us to harass Wyrd miniatures.  

Quote from: Headless;916597You guys are strawmaning the shit out of me.  I never said 'zero tolerance.'  When I said stop fighting me on everything' it was the 'everything' that was important.  You interpreted an admission of possible fault on my part as another volley launched.  

No, we aren't.  I'm just telling you that you're being a fucking idiot for believing everything you read on the internet.  This is how conspiracy nutters get rich.

Quote from: daniel_ream;916664I wouldn't be so sure.  Their tactics and mindset are exactly the same as Mao's Cultural Revolution, and that ended with cannibalism.  I am fully prepared to believe that given the power and no consequences, some of these people would commit mass incarceration and murder.

Meaning in and of itself. The latter part of the post was a softer way of saying that left to grow outside of little things, it will become a danger.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;916715Meaning in and of itself. The latter part of the post was a softer way of saying that left to grow outside of little things, it will become a danger.

One of the real disturbing things about the Khmer Rouge was that many of the Cambodian ideologues in that movement were educated in France and picked up their ideas, not so much from Mao, but from French Leftists. In France, that line of thought bore fruit not dissimilar from current American university PC culture. In Cambodia, it became something way, way darker with a lot more willingness to commit mass murder. Much later, once the KR leadership was under pressure to surrender themselves to an international tribunal, they largely tried to explain away their part in the whole thing by claiming some variation of 'It wasn't really me. I mean, I'm just a guy who loves French poetry. It was all those other people who took things too far. Now, can I please go back to my villa and enjoy my dotage reading Rimbaud and drinking wine under the banyan tree?'

While I'm finding this segue productive, it's so far from the original OP that I'm not sure how useful it is to keep this thread open.

Quote from: daniel_ream;916193The burden of proof is on the person making the accusation.

Exactly.

Did you catch the part where I quoted Pundit accusing her of being a liar 3 times?

Quote from: Crüesader;916281She's lying about it for some reason- at least the part about Wyrd staff sending her threats via email.

She said "Given that a large number of threats identify the senders by name as Wyrd staff members, I do not find this surprising.".

What does that even mean? The origin address was a Wyrd owned domain? The senders identified themselves in the text? It's possible this evidence is not conclusive, and this phrasing is a HUUUGE red flag, but not providing it is still not proof of lying.

Lack of evidence is never proof of anything.

Quote from: Headless;916428First I am not a social justice warrior.  I am not fighting hard enough to have earned that title.

[*Looks at phrasing*]

Suuuure.

#KnowThyself

Quote from: Crüesader;916490Of course if you want to know why I'm hesitant? *snip*

HO. LE. SHI.

I now understand where you're coming from a whole lot better.

Since we're sharing, my brother was convicted of Felony Assault and served a year in prison for keeping his then pregnant girlfriend from hurting herself during a hypoglycemic tantrum and potentially killing herself by driving to the hospital, as she had a history of car accidents due to diabetes. And sure enough, five months after the trial she had her license suspended because police couldn't tell the difference between that and being drunk.

So he gave her juice. He called an ambulance. He had two witnesses. And all the evidence supported his claims.

But she was fed a narrative while in a vulnerable state by police and EMTs and the evidence was never checked. I still can't call her a liar though, because for all I know she may believe it's true. And while I'd love to get evidence which proves her car accidents were due to her inability to control her diabetes, I can't because HIPPA and all that.

So I get what evidence I can, and carefully separate the things I can prove from the things I suspect.

Quote from: Kellri;916531I decided the ONLY way to find out the truth was to go there, track down almost everyone I could who was willing to talk about it, and get some answers. Those answers were not pleasant and it took years. In the process, I discovered that sussing out who was lying and who was telling the truth was often a matter of getting right up in someone's face and looking closely when they talked about whatever it was they were talking about.

Well in The Act of Killing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing) the filmmakers got the perpetrators of the Indonesian killings of 1965–66 to reveal the truth...

...through roleplaying :)

Quote from: Headless;916597No one here is in law enforcement so we don't get evidence.  Not our role.  It is our role to police the behaviour of our own members through social leverage.

Then what evidence do you have that The Pundit made a false accusation? Should someone apologize for making a true accusation? And shouldn't we be using our social leverage to preventing folks from harming others by making accusations without evidence?

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;916744Well in The Act of Killing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing) the filmmakers got the perpetrators of the Indonesian killings of 1965–66 to reveal the truth......through roleplaying :)

Indeed. One particular guy I interviewed a few years ago gave some pretty detailed testimony involving things he had supposedly witnessed as a victim. He even broke down in tears at one point and I had to come back the next day to finish the interview. Later, as I started to interview other people from the same village, it became clear THAT GUY was in fact the perpetrator of many of the crimes he had described to me. He had been lying to himself for so long that he was functionally incapable of telling the truth except through taking on the role of his victims.

Ok.

Two different conversations seem to be happening.  In no particular order.
First.  What is aproprate action to control inaproprate behaviour, or in this case speech.  Most of the answers to that are "SHES EVIL" "THEY ARE TRYING TO RUIN EVERYTHING"
Not answering my question.  I am suggesting applying social pressure.  Not muzzling any one.  Not 'zero tolerance' not a kick not a ban, none of those things which you are upset about.
I do apreaccate that I get to have this conversation with out being kicked myself.  
I recognize that we are waiting for clarification on what he ment, so let's set that aside for now.

Second.  Which is a bigger problem.  Rape and sexual herrasment or false accusations of the same.  I think actual sexual predators are a bigger problem and I used the first 9 pages of this thread as evidence, as well as the other post on laitinising.  You think she is a liar and the first nine pages are evidence that the predators are kept under control.  Fine.  I disagree with you but I am done trying to change you mind.  

 One question.  If there are predators and prey out there who do you think is more likely to stick around?  

Finally an apology to everyone who was posting here before I triggered the crazies.  I heard their was a big red button, I followed the clues to where it was and I pushed it.  What can I say I'm a PC it's my nature.  In my defense, I do think this is important and I had good motivations, not just 'for the lutz' but it seems I made a tactical error.

Quote from: Headless;916784Finally an apology to everyone who was posting here before I triggered the crazies.  I heard their was a big red button, I followed the clues to where it was and I pushed it.  What can I say I'm a PC it's my nature.  In my defense, I do think this is important and I had good motivations, not just 'for the lutz' but it seems I made a tactical error.

Rather than apologize, why don't you just wrap up this way-off-topic diversion instead of continuing to stoke the fires? You dragged this thread into an SJW shit-pit 11 pages ago - be responsible and conclude it. Go start some threads on roleplaying games, or reply to some threads about roleplaying games - and stay on topic - on a forum that's dedicated to fucking roleplaying games.

Quote from: K Peterson;916787Rather than apologize, why don't you just wrap up this way-off-topic diversion instead of continuing to stoke the fires? You dragged this thread into an SJW shit-pit 11 pages ago - be responsible and conclude it. Go start some threads on roleplaying games, or reply to some threads about roleplaying games - and stay on topic - on a forum that's dedicated to fucking roleplaying games.

Hear, Hear! I second this sentiment.
I'm sure that there are other, better places to do the SJW thing than on a forum dedicated to role playing games. Enough already.:rolleyes:

Shemek.

I got an update on the guy that magically manifested an entire battleforce.  He said that the one he was using wasn't his.

Quote from: Headless;916784Second.  Which is a bigger problem.  Rape and sexual herrasment or false accusations of the same.

If I am feeling selfish, I'd say, whichever one happens to me or to people I care about.

QuoteOne question.  If there are predators and prey out there who do you think is more likely to stick around?  

Narcissists. I'm also reminded of the adage about wolves in sheep's clothing.

Quote from: Kellri;916742One of the real disturbing things about the Khmer Rouge was that many of the Cambodian ideologues in that movement were educated in France and picked up their ideas, not so much from Mao, but from French Leftists.

Wow. Is French history taught in French in French schools? It's almost as if there never was a French Revolution to look back on as a warning of what can go wrong...

Quote from: Bren;916837If I am feeling selfish, I'd say, whichever one happens to me or to people I care about.

Narcissists. I'm also reminded of the adage about wolves in sheep's clothing.

Quote from: Crüesader;916833I got an update on the guy that magically manifested an entire battleforce.  He said that the one he was using wasn't his.

Well there you go. An explanation that sounds possible.

Quote from: Crüesader;916833I got an update on the guy that magically manifested an entire battleforce.  He said that the one he was using wasn't his.

Well there you go. A benign explanation.

Quote from: Bren;916839Well there you go. A benign explanation.

Yeah.  I think my friend's more worried about why he didn't show up or respond to invitations.

Quote from: Crüesader;916833I got an update on the guy that magically manifested an entire battleforce.  He said that the one he was using wasn't his.

I would call BS on this unless he provided proof. I don't want to sound all inquisitorial, but a definite odour of piscine decay is emanating from a specific Scandinavian country. A very good buddy of mine got burned in a similar manner once while trying to help someone out, and now my default setting is skepticism.

Shemek

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;916859I would call BS on this unless he provided proof. I don't want to sound all inquisitorial, but a definite odour of piscine decay is emanating from a specific Scandinavian country. A very good buddy of mine got burned in a similar manner once while trying to help someone out, and now my default setting is skepticism.

Shemek

Our little gaming group has a reputation for being 'sticklers' already- in a thread where we're talking about gamers we've run off, the entire screening process for our gaming club does that as it is.  He technically did pay for the models in his possession.  He owns them, and if he never comes back- the worst we have is a 'test and guest' army (we already have this for Orks, Eldar, and Chaos Space Marines).  

Our group is designed to push away parasitic players.  In the screening process, you won't believe what I've heard people complain about.

We ask for a small donation to help with food/drink costs, as well as putting together a fund for going to tournaments outside the city.  This is entirely optional, as any player can elect to bring his own food/drinks and pay their own way to a tournament.  In addition, I've asked players to bring at least one piece of terrain to the game, and I'm not picky- it can be something as simple as some rocks glued to a piece of cardboard.  I also ask that they bring a chair, as the ones I have in the kitchen aren't very comfortable for long periods of time.  

You would be shocked at how many players seem to think that because these games take place at my home- that I somehow should be providing drinks, all terrain and gaming supplies, as well as chairs.  Keep in mind I've done all the work on getting a table (an old Ping Pong table I've converted over) as well as buying gaming scenery (buildings and the like) for the table, as well as purchasing 2 gaming mats (A city, Forge world, grass, and desert).  

I actually had one guy say, "that is not how you treat a guest" after he sought me out.  I explained to him that I can't afford to feed nearly 10 guys and buy sodas for them, and the gaming area was an afterthought when I bought my furniture.  He then proceeded to explain to me that if I could afford a house in the suburbs in this city, as well as a 40k Army and the gaming table, that I should be able to provide for my guests.  

Again, this is a gaming club.  Not an open invitation to use my shit.  

Eventually, the guy uttered the word 'bourgeoisie' and I told him that my Grandfather shot commies in Korea and put cigarettes out in their dead eyes.  He left.

Quote from: Omega;916638Screenshots can easily be falsified.

Yep.  If I was dealing with this (background: I work in information systems security) I would demand full emails with SMTP headers included.  For the uninitiated, it is a big block of text that comes at the top of an email that shows where the mail originated from (what email address, what IP address, etc.) what time it was sent, through what servers it was sent, to what servers it was received and what time it was received there.  Now, it is fairly easy to just copy out in a text document and throw any old thing in but you have got to be very, very, very careful.  You must know what you're doing and - very importantly - you have to have the block of IP addresses from within the organization you wish to forge the header from; that's not terribly difficult (you could create a fake gmail account, send an innocuous email, then use whatever data on the response email's header and append it to your cry-wolf "rape threat" email).  But of course, there are server records and router records that would show when a given email went versus what your fake header says, but, alternately, you could say "Well you erased those records" and then it comes down to he-said she-said.

But in this case the person who made the accusations against Wyrd is a histrionic liar so there's not really anything to do with what I just said.  But I wanted to point out that there's a bigger "fingerprint" than merely screenshotting outlook or gmail to "prove" you got emails.

Quote from: K Peterson;916787Rather than apologize, why don't you just wrap up this way-off-topic diversion instead of continuing to stoke the fires? You dragged this thread into an SJW shit-pit 11 pages ago - be responsible and conclude it. Go start some threads on roleplaying games, or reply to some threads about roleplaying games - and stay on topic - on a forum that's dedicated to fucking roleplaying games.

It would also help if he didn't feel the need to stoke the fires by throwing in little digs at people who disagree with them like calling them "the crazies".

Quote from: Crüesader;916863Our little gaming group has a reputation for being 'sticklers' already- in a thread where we're talking about gamers we've run off, the entire screening process for our gaming club does that as it is.  He technically did pay for the models in his possession.  He owns them, and if he never comes back- the worst we have is a 'test and guest' army (we already have this for Orks, Eldar, and Chaos Space Marines).  

Our group is designed to push away parasitic players.  In the screening process, you won't believe what I've heard people complain about.

We ask for a small donation to help with food/drink costs, as well as putting together a fund for going to tournaments outside the city.  This is entirely optional, as any player can elect to bring his own food/drinks and pay their own way to a tournament.  In addition, I've asked players to bring at least one piece of terrain to the game, and I'm not picky- it can be something as simple as some rocks glued to a piece of cardboard.  I also ask that they bring a chair, as the ones I have in the kitchen aren't very comfortable for long periods of time.  

You would be shocked at how many players seem to think that because these games take place at my home- that I somehow should be providing drinks, all terrain and gaming supplies, as well as chairs.  Keep in mind I've done all the work on getting a table (an old Ping Pong table I've converted over) as well as buying gaming scenery (buildings and the like) for the table, as well as purchasing 2 gaming mats (A city, Forge world, grass, and desert).  

I actually had one guy say, "that is not how you treat a guest" after he sought me out.  I explained to him that I can't afford to feed nearly 10 guys and buy sodas for them, and the gaming area was an afterthought when I bought my furniture.  He then proceeded to explain to me that if I could afford a house in the suburbs in this city, as well as a 40k Army and the gaming table, that I should be able to provide for my guests.  

Again, this is a gaming club.  Not an open invitation to use my shit.  

Eventually, the guy uttered the word 'bourgeoisie' and I told him that my Grandfather shot commies in Korea and put cigarettes out in their dead eyes.  He left.

This shit right here is why I don't invite strangers into my house to game and I no longer haul my Dwarven Forge stuff to stores.  I've had people ask (demand) to pick up and handle the stuff and while the older pieces are tough they are not unbreakable.  If I drop a piece on the floor and break it, shame on me.  If you do it...get your wallet out it's buyin' time.  Likewise people have regularly mistreated minis I have painstakingly painted, and so on and etcetera.  I've had beer and soda spilled on my terrain and minis by people who think it's nothing at all (because obviously if I can afford Dwarven Forge I'm Mr. Moneybags and there's no end to my well of cash, so ruin away, I can just buy more lolol right?), steal dice, it's just...not worth it.

That you run a game club in your house is astounding to me and I doff my hat to you.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;916868That you run a game club in your house is astounding to me and I doff my hat to you.

I can run the air conditioning into the garage (while sealing it off to the parts of the house no one is using).  Truth be told, I never wanted to convert the garage over to gaming.  I just wanted it to be cool in there while I worked on my bike or my truck. Every room in my house has a key lock on the door (I own firearms and quite a bit of gear as well as things I got while I traveled abroad, I don't take chances).  Basically, when someone is over they're able to go to the kitchen, living room, a bathroom (with just a toilet and sink), and the back door.  In the garage I have a fridge and an old cabinet with chips and stuff inside.  

Another helpful thing is that people who are in the gaming club fill out a document with all their contact information.  I also keep a log of who shows up on game nights and when (I know, shady).  If my things get broken or go missing, I know where to go looking.

Quote from: Crüesader;916869I can run the air conditioning into the garage (while sealing it off to the parts of the house no one is using).  Truth be told, I never wanted to convert the garage over to gaming.  I just wanted it to be cool in there while I worked on my bike or my truck. Every room in my house has a key lock on the door (I own firearms and quite a bit of gear as well as things I got while I traveled abroad, I don't take chances).  Basically, when someone is over they're able to go to the kitchen, living room, a bathroom (with just a toilet and sink), and the back door.  In the garage I have a fridge and an old cabinet with chips and stuff inside.  

Another helpful thing is that people who are in the gaming club fill out a document with all their contact information.  I also keep a log of who shows up on game nights and when (I know, shady).  If my things get broken or go missing, I know where to go looking.

Generally the folks I have over now are friends and friends only.  I try not to succumb to Geek Social Fallacies ("All my friends will want to get together and hang out!"), but I'm lucky in that a great many of them are in fact gamers who enjoy gaming together.  As to asking that 380lb guy with frizzy long hair, is in his late 20s, wears the same Gorguts shirt to the game store every day he's there, and smells vaguely of cat pee?  Nooooooot gonna happen...

Quote from: thedungeondelver;916870Generally the folks I have over now are friends and friends only.  I try not to succumb to Geek Social Fallacies ("All my friends will want to get together and hang out!"), but I'm lucky in that a great many of them are in fact gamers who enjoy gaming together.  As to asking that 380lb guy with frizzy long hair, is in his late 20s, wears the same Gorguts shirt to the game store every day he's there, and smells vaguely of cat pee?  Nooooooot gonna happen...

Well, I haven't lived in this city for too terribly long.  Most of my 'old friends' I gamed with over the years are scattered across the country, most of us were military and served together and finally finished our time.  

Speaking of money and how people act about it, apparently this is how people see us 'privileged' gamers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo5ro1nWsPU

Quote from: thedungeondelver;916870Generally the folks I have over now are friends and friends only.  I try not to succumb to Geek Social Fallacies ("All my friends will want to get together and hang out!"), but I'm lucky in that a great many of them are in fact gamers who enjoy gaming together.  As to asking that 380lb guy with frizzy long hair, is in his late 20s, wears the same Gorguts shirt to the game store every day he's there, and smells vaguely of cat pee?  Nooooooot gonna happen...

Exactly this. I really have to know the person, or they have to be recommended by a current member (but I still want to talk to them before the first session they show up to). I'm not too keen on the stranger coming to the game table.

Shemek

Quote from: Crüesader;916876Well, I haven't lived in this city for too terribly long.  Most of my 'old friends' I gamed with over the years are scattered across the country, most of us were military and served together and finally finished our time.  

Yeah that sucks man; sorry to hear.

QuoteSpeaking of money and how people act about it, apparently this is how people see us 'privileged' gamers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo5ro1nWsPU

The funny thing is, anyone who knows me IRL knows how broke I/we usually are: all my Dwarven Forge is stuff I've collected over the course of ... Jesus, 17 years now?  A set here, a set there, a few pieces when they used to sell lots of individual parts, etc., retail.  Four sets I got for free from Dwarven Forge (the two Traps! sets, and the Starter set when they were doing those plus the Floor set; they sent me those two because the ones I'd gotten retail were damaged, and they sent me replacements without asking for the originals back), and then quite a few came buy-one-get-one-free when a local comic store would do that during Christmas week...so while value-wise I have maybe 2 or 3 grand worth I probably only paid about 1100, spread out over sixteen years...

That doesn't mean I want people mistreating it! :o

Quote from: Crüesader;916863Our little gaming group has a reputation for being 'sticklers' already- in a thread where we're talking about gamers we've run off, the entire screening process for our gaming club does that as it is.  He technically did pay for the models in his possession.  He owns them, and if he never comes back- the worst we have is a 'test and guest' army (we already have this for Orks, Eldar, and Chaos Space Marines).  

Oh, ok. I misunderstood this part. I thought your group had bought him the minis in order for him to play, and he stiffed you guys.

Quote from: Crüesader;916863Our group is designed to push away parasitic players.  In the screening process, you won't believe what I've heard people complain about.

We ask for a small donation to help with food/drink costs, as well as putting together a fund for going to tournaments outside the city.  This is entirely optional, as any player can elect to bring his own food/drinks and pay their own way to a tournament.  In addition, I've asked players to bring at least one piece of terrain to the game, and I'm not picky- it can be something as simple as some rocks glued to a piece of cardboard.  I also ask that they bring a chair, as the ones I have in the kitchen aren't very comfortable for long periods of time.  

This sounds very reasonable to me, but I tend to lean towards the practical side.  

Quote from: Crüesader;916863You would be shocked at how many players seem to think that because these games take place at my home- that I somehow should be providing drinks, all terrain and gaming supplies, as well as chairs.  Keep in mind I've done all the work on getting a table (an old Ping Pong table I've converted over) as well as buying gaming scenery (buildings and the like) for the table, as well as purchasing 2 gaming mats (A city, Forge world, grass, and desert).  

I actually had one guy say, "that is not how you treat a guest" after he sought me out.  I explained to him that I can't afford to feed nearly 10 guys and buy sodas for them, and the gaming area was an afterthought when I bought my furniture.  He then proceeded to explain to me that if I could afford a house in the suburbs in this city, as well as a 40k Army and the gaming table, that I should be able to provide for my guests.

I would have told him that this not how you treat a host. What an ignorant cunt! People like this get my blood pressure up. An entitled POS that has the balls to call you to task for not going even further out of your way to be an even more gracious host. I would have stomped him into the ground like the that bug he is, and frog marched him to the curb. Wow!  

Quote from: Crüesader;916863Again, this is a gaming club.  Not an open invitation to use my shit.  

Eventually, the guy uttered the word 'bourgeoisie' and I told him that my Grandfather shot commies in Korea and put cigarettes out in their dead eyes.  He left.

Entitled, and enabled no doubt. Anyone directing the term 'bourgeoisie' towards me in my house well, it would be the same as waving a red flag in front of a bull. He better get the hell out of the way. BTW, was he wearing a Mao, or Che  T-shirt?:rolleyes:
Good on you man. It's nice to be able to set up a gaming club in your home.

Shemek

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;916882Oh, ok. I misunderstood this part. I thought your group had bought him the minis in order for him to play, and he stiffed you guys.

Well, he'd said he was low on money at the time.  We got together and said we'd put together and pay for an army for him and he could paint them as he paid them off.  He put down enough for a squad of fire warriors and one of those mech suits and or something, and I let him use my paints.  Those models were 'his' and the rest would remain unpainted so we could resell them if he changed his mind.  None of us were really 'itching' for another Tau army, but if he never comes back we can at least play around with them or maybe sell them to a new player.  

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;916882I would have told him that this not how you treat a host. What an ignorant cunt! People like this get my blood pressure up. An entitled POS that has the balls to call you to task for not going even further out of your way to be an even more gracious host. I would have stomped him into the ground like the that bug he is, and frog marched him to the curb. Wow!

To be perfectly honest, this guy's entire demeanor made me uncomfortable.  He did that thing that bothers me:  If he's not using it, it's always OP or cheesy.  Unless it's blatantly underpowered and ineffective, then it's just the player not knowing what they're doing.  Add this with that expression where he smiles and closes his eyes as he talks, and you've got a recipe for a dish I like to call "How Do I Make This Fucker Go Away".

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;916882Entitled, and enabled no doubt. Anyone directing the term 'bourgeoisie' towards me in my house well, it would be the same as waving a red flag in front of a bull. He better get the hell out of the way. BTW, was he wearing a Mao, or Che  T-shirt?:rolleyes:

No, my home is in Texas.  We have a few left-leaners but most of the time, they aren't too disagreeable.  We do have a college nearby, and a lot of the losers that got useless degrees tend to stick around for a few years.  But in this area, you can only go so far Commie before a Good ol' Boy deals with you.

Quote from: rgrove0172;913857Have you ever had the displeasure of having to remove a player from your game?

What were your reasons? How did you go about it? How did it go?

Several times.  Mostly I've kicked out people who would miss a lot of sessions... I've actually gotten to be a lot more lenient about this as of late however, so long as players are at least courteous enough to give me forwarning (and don't just no show without so much as a word).

A few times I've kicked out players when it was clear they were a poor fit for the existing group, usually I catch whether a player will be too much drama to deal with very early on.
Unfortunately I have had to give longer term players the boot before too, life happens, people change, I've had players that got along great start to have issues with each other, which spill over into game.  I always make a point to confront players when these things happen and try to get them to find a solution, or at least agree to not carry their issues into the gaming group, but if no other solution can be found, and they insist on bringing their baggage into game, then one or both have to get the boot.

I dunno, being asked to bring my own chair just sounds weird.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916894I dunno, being asked to bring my own chair just sounds weird.

One house I GMed at had chairs that were pure torture to sit in. Dont know what was up but one session I could barely move my legs for the pain after about an hour. What the hell? Just that particular chair. Of which they had at least two.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916894I dunno, being asked to bring my own chair just sounds weird.

"The mind cannot enjoy what the body cannot endure" :)

Shemek

"I drive a Ford Escort, how the hell do I carry a chair."

Yeah... the person hosting a game is providing an environment to game in, and may also be GMing (though I've been in some groups where a player was a host, it's not as common), and if they are anything like me, they make a little extra effort to make sure that the place I setup for gaming is pleasant... the least other folks in a group can do is be gracious enough not to make extra demands in a dickish manner like they are owed something. I like my players more and more, and reading these threads makes my present group members look like shining becons of light. They never make those sorts of demands at least, and often will bring some food or drink of their own to share.  

I don't think I've ever been asked to bring a chair, but, eh, wouldn't be the end of the world for me to do so.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916902"I drive a Ford Escort, how the hell do I carry a chair."

This is the trunk of my car.
(http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq45/oldhat321/photo.php_zpsyngzaxze.jpg) (http://s432.photobucket.com/user/oldhat321/media/photo.php_zpsyngzaxze.jpg.html)
When I put the top down, it takes up most of that.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916902"I drive a Ford Escort, how the hell do I carry a chair."

Option A: You get something like this - [ATTACH=CONFIG]336[/ATTACH]  Wal-Mart has them for pretty cheap, and even the $15.00 ones are more comfortable than my kitchen chairs.

Option B:  You sit in one of the uncomfortable kitchen chairs.

Option C:  You stand.  

Not to be a dick, but the idea here is that it's more of a strong recommendation.  I have one or two extra lawn chairs like the one pictured, but I can't provide one for everyone (and they tend to tear up with heavier folks).

Quote from: Aracaris;916904They never make those sorts of demands at least, and often will bring some food or drink of their own to share.  

The 'Pot Luck' idea happens on weekends.  I don't mind cooking something if a few other people do as well.  Rule is, if you don't cook you help with dishes or bring some disposables and napkins or buy something to go with it.  We had tacos/burritos one night and it went pretty well.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916902"I drive a Ford Escort, how the hell do I carry a chair."

Strap it to the roof! Or... If it has wheels. Tow it! :D

Quote from: Crüesader;916863I actually had one guy say, "that is not how you treat a guest" after he sought me out.  I explained to him that I can't afford to feed nearly 10 guys and buy sodas for them, and the gaming area was an afterthought when I bought my furniture.  He then proceeded to explain to me that if I could afford a house in the suburbs in this city, as well as a 40k Army and the gaming table, that I should be able to provide for my guests.  

Again, this is a gaming club.  Not an open invitation to use my shit.  

I recall reading your earlier thread about your rules for joining your club.  Personally, I didn't find any of the rules to be out of line.  I think the one about the chair is odd, but I don't think it's grossly out of line and I can see the need for it.

I remember when I was still playing with multiple people, some who were strangers.  I had a rule that if you played for any period of time, then you needed your own rulebook and dice and supplies.  I think if you're playing something every week and have already been doing so for a month, then it's definitely time to pony up and buy your own stuff.  If you don't, then you can hit the road, because I'm not a fucking library.

I have this rule because I've learned through the school of hard knocks.  I've had books and dice stolen.  I've had gamers disrespect my property and damage my things.  In fact, I've found gamers to be far more likely to be entitled jerks than any other crew.  So, I developed my rules.  It's easy to tell the people who are the moocher pieces of shit, because they would disagree with the rules and not come back.

I still recall when I stated my rules in a thread on TBP.  There were dozens of posters who jumped all over me saying I was the unreasonable person (to put it mildly).  That's fine.  I never lost any more of my books to theft after I instituted my rules, though.  Plus, I didn't have to deal with as many jackasses.

Ah, yes, let's get this thread back onto its original purpose, eh?  :-)

If I host a game, I will provide a 2-liter soda pop and a bag of chips or cookies, but I don't expect to feed everyone a full meal. Usually, the folks I game with will chip in to order a pizza, etc. I have lots of tables and chairs at my house, because I took advantage when my employer was selling off a number of old folding banquet style tables for $10 each, and stackable metal chairs for $5 each. I bought 4 tables and 10 chairs, although 2 of the chairs have been discarded since then. At some other places (usually other folks homes) I will sometimes take a chair or two, as not everyone has enough chairs to seat everyone who wants to play. For that matter, when I used to play (Advanced) Speed Circuit many years ago, we sometimes had more than 20 players show up to play, so folks had to bring their own chairs as not too many people have that many chairs around their house!

I do believe that the host sets the ground rules, and that folks should be responsible for bringing their own food.

So, back to running players off....

Although it wasn't running a player off from a specific game, there was a teenager in the early 1980s who used to regularly attend our twice a year game-cons. Well, one day this teen was in a front-page story in the local newspaper. It seems he and a friend had stolen about $50,000 of computer equipment from local schools (the schools were just starting to purchase personal computers around then)! While the perps only got about 2.5 years of probation out of that, a number of us didn't want them around our cons. At that time, I had started taking my Apple II computer to the cons and would run the game "Olympic Decathlon" on it, and didn't want it stolen.

At another local game-con, we also caught a 13 year old teen who had stolen a box of miniatures from a dealer just after the exhibit hall opened. It seemed all we could do was to pull the admission pass from that guy and eject him from the con, as the dealer, who was from out of town, didn't want to press charges because he didn't want to have to come to town to testify later.

And, getting back to hosting gamers at my house, I do like to know the folks I invite over. But, I also lock up everything that can be locked up, and I also keep my wallet and keys on my person at all times when the folks are at my house. Just to keep the honest people honest, I reckon.

-- RustyDM

Quote from: Crüesader;916885No, my home is in Texas.  We have a few left-leaners but most of the time, they aren't too disagreeable.  We do have a college nearby, and a lot of the losers that got useless degrees tend to stick around for a few years.  But in this area, you can only go so far Commie before a Good ol' Boy deals with you.

Sounds like paradise, round here Che T-shirts are 10 a penny. I've seen much worse, like the guy* with a T-shirt celebrating 9-11. I really wanted to hit that one.

*SJW type guy not Islamist type guy.

Quote from: S'mon;917127Sounds like paradise, round here Che T-shirts are 10 a penny. I've seen much worse, like the guy* with a T-shirt celebrating 9-11. I really wanted to hit that one.

Real Communists don't wear iconic T-shirts. In fact, in 17 years, I've yet to see one single Vietnamese wearing an Uncle Ho shirt. They sell them in the backpacker district alongside the Same Same But Different and Got Pho? shirts, but for pretty obvious reasons, no one who lives here would be caught dead wearing any of them, especially a local. OTOH, locals do tend to wear some really stupid shit. At the moment, marijuana themes and old school hip-hop slogans seem pretty popular. It always brings a smile to my face when I see somebody's grandma wearing a ganja-print hoodie on the way to the market or a teen girl in the mall with a 'Fuck the Police' shirt.

Quote from: Gabriel2;916981I recall reading your earlier thread about your rules for joining your club....
I still recall when I stated my rules in a thread on TBP.  There were dozens of posters who jumped all over me saying I was the unreasonable person (to put it mildly).  That's fine.  I never lost any more of my books to theft after I instituted my rules, though.  Plus, I didn't have to deal with as many jackasses.

You know, it's like they told us in the Marines:  "If you think it's a dumbshit rule, rest assured there was at least one dumbshit Marine that forced the hand in making that rule."

Our hobbies are expensive, too expensive for some putz to walk off with your shit like it's a cigarette lighter.  I'm even more anal about securing my stuff since I have firearms in my home (two of which are inherited firearms that aren't made any more) and I have keepsakes from my travels across the world.  The former could be used to hurt someone, the latter is completely irreplaceable and therefore priceless to me (even the little kitten sticker book from a little girl in Korea).

Quote from: S'mon;917127Sounds like paradise, round here Che T-shirts are 10 a penny. I've seen much worse, like the guy* with a T-shirt celebrating 9-11. I really wanted to hit that one.

*SJW type guy not Islamist type guy.

Yeah, it doesn't get that bad around here.  As a veteran, I refuse to have someone wearing shit like that in my home.  Not only are you not coming in, you are never coming back.  Wearing something like that in Texas with as many veterans as there are around here, you mind end up in a dumpster.  Or several.  I can tolerate people having different political opinions, because fortunately my gaming group isn't a bunch of retards and they have a unique dynamic when it comes to that- but the rule is, no discussions like that at the table, because it slows down the game.  

The only kind of person I will unapologetically reject from my group without even sitting down with them is an outrage fetishist.  Sorry, I've got a gaming group and I'm not playing roulette with my life because one day you want to decide that killing Tau is racism or something.

Quote from: Kellri;917136Real Communists don't wear iconic T-shirts. In fact, in 17 years, I've yet to see one single Vietnamese wearing an Uncle Ho shirt. They sell them in the backpacker district alongside the Same Same But Different and Got Pho? shirts, but for pretty obvious reasons, no one who lives here would be caught dead wearing any of them, especially a local.

This is the average 'Communist' I see.  

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As you can see, most of us here aren't particularly worried.

Quote from: Crüesader;917154Wearing something like that in Texas with as many veterans as there are around here, you mind end up in a dumpster.  Or several.

Because nothing says "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" like murdering and then dismembering anyone who disagrees with you. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Bren;917179Because nothing says "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" like murdering and then dismembering anyone who disagrees with you. :rolleyes:

"He fell".  

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It's an exaggeration.  Don't take it so seriously.  Most likely someone wearing shirts mocking 9-11 would have a difficult time finding a place that would do business with them.  Vets are actually smarter than you think- we find little edgelords that do shit like this and tend to notify their employers (if they've made it public, the Doxxing thing doesn't fly too well).   If we see it in an establishment, we just take pictures and get on Social Media.  We let that business make the choice whether or not the edgelord or everyone else is more profitable.  

Shit, about two months ago there was one guy making little memes about dead Soldiers.  Dumb bastard had his employer on his Social Media page.  We shared it on a Veterans' page and a Gold Star Mothers page, and just sent a message to his employer.  It took all of an hour for them to tell us he was 'no longer a part of the XXXXXX's family'."

Maybe his t-shirt or social media posts are also exaggerations which ought not to be taken seriously? What's that? Right-wing fruit loops get to make nasty jokes, but left-wing fruit loops don't? Ah, it all makes sense now.

But really, it is important to ensure that every thread eventually turns into a discussion of US domestic politics.

Wait, no, that's rpg.net, not therpgsite.

Can we talk about games now, Walter Sobchak?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917195Maybe his t-shirt or social media posts are also exaggerations which ought not to be taken seriously? What's that? Right-wing fruit loops get to make nasty jokes, but left-wing fruit loops don't? Ah, it all makes sense now.

You see, in the world of adults, if you're representing your business publicly then you tend to not want to make tasteless jokes.  No one's saying he can't make a 'joke'.  But if I make a joke about blacks on welfare, you can bet your ass I'll be looking for a new job in a matter of hours if I am disclosing my place of employment on the same social media page.  This isn't hard, it's pretty straightforward.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917195But really, it is important to ensure that every thread eventually turns into a discussion of US domestic politics.

Absolutely none of this is particularly about 'politics', but people we can't suffer.  I'm left on some things, right on others, but there are simply some things I cannot tolerate.  And I didn't know 'Communism' and 'Che' were American domestic politics, but it's been a few years.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917195Can we talk about games now, Walter Sobchak?

We can start with you.  I'll gladly see your contribution.

Quote from: Crüesader;917183It's an exaggeration.  Don't take it so seriously.

Oh so it was more of the usual Internet tough guy bullshit by some unwashed, whiny ass, mouth-breather living in his mom's basement. Right Ho! Carry on soldier.

Quote from: Bren;917232Oh so it was more of the usual Internet tough guy bullshit by some unwashed, whiny ass, mouth-breather living in his mom's basement. Right Ho! Carry on soldier.

Nah, it was a joke, not a cock.  You don't have to take it so hard and squeal as much.

Fuck it.  I've nothing better to do.

You know, I won't sit and pretend to be the biggest badass on the block, or even in my own driveway if the neighbor's dog is out.  I won't say 'the gaming world needs more of me'.  I'll just say it needs less of you.  Are you so insecure with yourself that you simply have to pretend that someone is 'lying' or an 'internet tough guy' if they aren't some limp-wristed, trillby-tipping, useless little boypussy like yourself?

Would it blow your mind to know that we have Warhammer and D&D nights on base?  Would it trip you out to know that we ran Oriental Adventures when I was in Iraq?

Face it, dude.  Not everyone is a pussy.  It's just you, and no matter how hard you try to frame it otherwise- it's just not true.

Quote from: Crüesader;917233You don't have to take it so hard and squeal as much.

You are too, too precious. You are a typing caricature. And speaking of somebody squealing there's you, squealing like a baby who skinned his wittle knee...again.

Now maybe you aren't some fat troll who lives in his mom's basement. Maybe you really are a tough guy in real life. It's the Internet. Anything is possible. But if you really were a real-life tough guy then your constant bragging about how tough you and your peeps are speaks volumes about your extreme insecurity.

Now the adults want to talk some more so go fondle your gun so you can tell yourself how big and powerful it is.

Quote from: Bren;917246You are too, too precious. You are a typing caricature. And speaking of somebody squealing there's you, squealing like a baby who skinned his wittle knee...again.

Rich, coming from the insecure manchild that can't possibly accept that he isn't the alpha of his hobby.  Please, I've purchased trembling lapdogs for children that are more a man than you.

Quote from: Bren;917246Now maybe you aren't some fat troll who lives in his mom's basement. Maybe you really are a tough guy in real life. It's the Internet. Anything is possible. But if you really were a real-life tough guy then your constant bragging about how tough you and your peeps are speaks volumes about your extreme insecurity.

I've done no such thing.  I've stated I served.  I've stated I own firearms.  If that's 'bragging' to you, then you truly are the incompetent loser you wish everyone else to be.  Stop projecting your personal failures at your betters, peasant.

If you misread my post- it was more a reflection of the area I'm in.  I don't physically harm people for their opinions, as too many of them have a persecution complex.  It'd be like giving you a bottle with a nipple and a diaper to help you grow the fuck up and stop being such a bitch.  

Oh, and my 'peeps' are generally pretty normal guys, a couple of them are pretty damned fat and some are skinny to the point I demand they eat more.  Though, I'm pretty sure that even a baseline male human being with a job is 'overcompensating' and 'a braggart' when compared to whatever level of 'sniveling worm' you're dangling at this week.

You're projecting an argument that no one is having, fabricating a statement no one made, all because you're an insecure loser and everyone fucking knows it.

Quote from: Bren;917246Now the adults want to talk some more so go fondle your gun so you can tell yourself how big and powerful it is.

The adults let you speak for them?  Because you certainly aren't one of them.  I'm sure you have a katana to polish or something, mister 'three feet of steel on my arm'.   I bet you have a trenchcoat to match, too.  

And the discussion was rather fine until you felt your fragile little ego threatened by someone who's done something other than play dress-up and pretend to be a pirate.  

And I'll never say gaming needs more people like me.  It just needs less people like you.  If it did, you wouldn't have been cuckolded by the outrage brigade and driven into corners to bleat and whine.

EDIT:  What is with you guys thinking about guns as penises?  That's not clever humor, that's a psychological problem and you probably need to seek some help with that.  Are you still the type to pull hot dog weenies out and hold them to your groin and laugh?

I'll put this thread right back on track where it belongs.  

I've never had to in person deal with immature whiners before.  Fortunately, it seems like when you get a group of people together with different opinions on many things they manage to be civil.  I've had a few bad experiences on the internet in roleplaying games and the like, but that's because there's a screen for them to hide behind.  

When City of Heroes was an actual game- we had a guy that was constantly making some really offhand comments.  He'd constantly slam other character concepts that weren't his own (of course, most of his were 'traditional superhero that is a knockoff of 2 or more trademarked heroes'), and anything else was a "Shitty 1990's Character".  Eventually, enough people other than him started to do actual events together and all he would do is lurk around and interrupt the stuff we were doing with snide comments in-character that reflected nothing more than the player's personal opinions.  

While I had very little to do with it, we basically let the fuckwit keep being who he was and eventually he just became 'the guy in the corner' and quit playing.  

Some folks tend to write their own reputations.

Quote from: Crüesader;917154Wearing something like that in Texas with as many veterans as there are around here, you mind end up in a dumpster.

Speaking as a native Texian (and Army vet), I have to say that this statement is, well, let's say a tad hyperbolic (or, if we're gonna go all Texas, it's bullshit). Hipsters in Austin whine their asses off, while rednecks (so many fucking rednecks) talk shit all over this state. However, let's face it, the typical Texan just doesn't give a shit about what other people do. My own relatives are uneducated, racist pigs, but you never hear them shit talk a minority to their face, because there's still such a thing as manners. Soooo, I imagine your typical redneck would talk shit. But it's unlikely they'd do anything, unless you happened to be passing through one of our many podunk towns on a slow night. 'Course the problem is, it's those ignorant shit talkers who end up on TV, thus painting the entire state as THAT. Between that depiction, and our crazy politicians (Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, especially), we just come across as straight-up fuckers. The stereotypes just keep on comin', of course, because, for some strange reason, being a loudmouth prick is something some people are fond of.

(P.S. I still miss CoX. Least we have that in common.)

Quote from: cranebump;917259Speaking as a native Texian (and Army vet), I have to say that this statement is, well, let's say a tad hyperbolic (or, if we're gonna go all Texas, it's bullshit). Hipsters in Austin whine their asses off, while rednecks (so many fucking rednecks) talk shit all over this state. However, let's face it, the typical Texan just doesn't give a shit about what other people do. My own relatives are uneducated, racist pigs, but you never hear them shit talk a minority to their face, because there's still such a thing as manners. Soooo, I imagine your typical redneck would talk shit. But it's unlikely they'd do anything, unless you happened to be passing through one of our many podunk towns on a slow night. 'Course the problem is, it's those ignorant shit talkers who end up on TV, thus painting the entire state as THAT. Between that depiction, and our crazy politicians (Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, especially), we just come across as straight-up fuckers. The stereotypes just keep on comin', of course, because, for some strange reason, being a loudmouth prick is something some people are fond of.

It also doesn't help that we have the occasional police standoff like that one at Twin Peaks a while back...  and yeah, we have the loons.  Most of them are relatively harmless, though like you said- there's the 'Wild West' areas where even I hesitate to tread.  I've seen a few of those hipsters get backed down and ran off, but fortunately even if it was a 'good old boy' pushing, it was warranted.  In Austin, there's the 'Hipster Area' if I recall correctly, and it's hard to just tolerate it.  But I mean, it's a diverse state of something around 28 million, if I remember correctly.  

I just know in most places people dislike troublemakers.  And they tend to get handled roughly.  Kind of why I liked the State enough to stay.

Quote from: cranebump;917259(P.S. I still miss CoX. Least we have that in common.)

You know, you might hate me for saying this... but after the way a lot of people in the community behaved after the game closed (threatening letters to NCSoft, accusations of 'racism', actual fucking racism from the gamers, someone claimed to send dogshit, conspiring to do blackfaxing, etc.)... I can't say that giving these people their favorite toy back would be a good idea.

Still, you can roleplay on a version of it- Paragon Chat.  I might re-download that thing again.  No gameplay, just running your avatar around and talking to other people.

Quote from: cranebump;917259Speaking as a native Texian (and Army vet), I have to say that this statement is, well, let's say a tad hyperbolic (or, if we're gonna go all Texas, it's bullshit). Hipsters in Austin whine their asses off, while rednecks (so many fucking rednecks) talk shit all over this state. However, let's face it, the typical Texan just doesn't give a shit about what other people do. My own relatives are uneducated, racist pigs, but you never hear them shit talk a minority to their face, because there's still such a thing as manners. Soooo, I imagine your typical redneck would talk shit. But it's unlikely they'd do anything, unless you happened to be passing through one of our many podunk towns on a slow night. 'Course the problem is, it's those ignorant shit talkers who end up on TV, thus painting the entire state as THAT. Between that depiction, and our crazy politicians (Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, especially), we just come across as straight-up fuckers. The stereotypes just keep on comin', of course, because, for some strange reason, being a loudmouth prick is something some people are fond of.

(P.S. I still miss CoX. Least we have that in common.)

Well said. Im a resident out here in the badlands of Texas (Between El Paso and Abilene) and concur. (Austin excluded, they aint Texans in my book)
A guy down the street flew his Mexican flag on the 4th. Fine, but he flew it over and above his USA flag. We are sitting there watching fireworks and it was just too much for us God fearing, patriotic, good ole boys to handle. So we did something about it! Yeah we marched the fuck down there and we.... well no, actually one of us was delegated (the most diplomatic and sober) to head down there with a six pack and offer it in exchange for exchanging the positions of the flag, given this was the USA and it birthday and all. The guy did it no prob, said he didn't know there was a law. He ended up joining us later. That's the type of Texan I can be proud of, doesn't take shit but isn't an idiot either, and that's most of us!

Crüesader, meet Bren. He's one of our part-time SJWs.

There was a couple that came to PFS briefly.  Their main purpose seemed to be to fuck with and attack the other PCs.  When they were told they couldn't do that in PFS, one of them responded with "So what's the point then?"  They weren't exactly run off but they left after they found out what the PFS rules on attacking other players were and that those rules would be enforced.

Quote from: jeff37923;917290Crüesader, meet Bren. He's one of our part-time SJWs.

I've encountered him once before.  I mentioned being in the military and he went hardcore trigger-kin and started claiming I was 'bragging' and 'talking like a tough guy'.  I noticed he went straight for the "Mom's basement" comment like those losers do, though.

...I wish I could live in my parents' basement.  I wouldn't have to cook my own meals and the bills would be a lot cheaper.

Quote from: yosemitemike;917292There was a couple that came to PFS briefly.  Their main purpose seemed to be to fuck with and attack the other PCs.  When they were told they couldn't do that in PFS, one of them responded with "So what's the point then?"  They weren't exactly run off but they left after they found out what the PFS rules on attacking other players were and that those rules would be enforced.

What's PFS?

Quote from: Crüesader;917293What's PFS?

Pathfinder Society.  It's an organized play setup for Pathfinder.  It's meant for walk-in and play so it has rules to rein in certain shenanigans and problem players.

Quote from: yosemitemike;917295Pathfinder Society.  It's an organized play setup for Pathfinder.  It's meant for walk-in and play so it has rules to rein in certain shenanigans and problem players.

Oh, well that explains those random weirdo encounters the Outrage Brigade is always talking about.  For a while I was scratching my head trying to figure out how you just end up playing an RPG with random degenerates.  I'd been scratching my head wondering how 'Safe Inclusion Zone' signs or whatever would ever be relevant as a product.

Didn't D&D have something like that- Greyhawk?  I don't remember, I didn't play it because the guy I talked to about joining was kind of a dick about classes and the like.  He didn't clearly explain it so I just went and played something else.

Quote from: Crüesader;917296Oh, well that explains those random weirdo encounters the Outrage Brigade is always talking about.  For a while I was scratching my head trying to figure out how you just end up playing an RPG with random degenerates.  I'd been scratching my head wondering how 'Safe Inclusion Zone' signs or whatever would ever be relevant as a product.

Didn't D&D have something like that- Greyhawk?  I don't remember, I didn't play it because the guy I talked to about joining was kind of a dick about classes and the like.  He didn't clearly explain it so I just went and played something else.

There's the RPGA and the Living campaigns.  I think they are still around.  D&D 5e has D&D Adventurers League.  There's always convention games and demos too.  Creepers and jerks are a real problem just like they are in video games.  That problem has been hugely overblown by melodramatic SJW looking to virtue signal and use it to gain leverage and control.  That's how a few creepers and assholes at a large con becomes a "white male terrorism problem".

Quote from: yosemitemike;917308There's the RPGA and the Living campaigns.  I think they are still around.  D&D 5e has D&D Adventurers League.  There's always convention games and demos too.  Creepers and jerks are a real problem just like they are in video games.  That problem has been hugely overblown by melodramatic SJW looking to virtue signal and use it to gain leverage and control.  That's how a few creepers and assholes at a large con becomes a "white male terrorism problem".

I mean, the good side of shit like this is that those dudes get 'publicity' when they behave like scumlords at the table.  I kind of have to agree with you about it being overblown- having open games like this tends to make sure these guys creep out just once.  As opposed to video games and online RPG's, where they can just come right back- or even persist because the person uses an 'ignore' feature and doesn't report them.

Like the 40k players and M:tG players- you can only be a colossal scumbag a couple of times before you're ran off.

And that is the thing. If you are doing an Open Table at a public venue, then the only way to handle the creepers and jerks who will show up is to run the shitlords off. If you don't, then really quickly not only does your game go to shit, but you get the reputation of being one who tolerates the lawncrappers and soon that will be all who show up to your public games.

Quote from: jeff37923;917313And that is the thing. If you are doing an Open Table at a public venue, then the only way to handle the creepers and jerks who will show up is to run the shitlords off. If you don't, then really quickly not only does your game go to shit, but you get the reputation of being one who tolerates the lawncrappers and soon that will be all who show up to your public games.

Yeah, and I'm really not thinking this 'scumbag' problem is as widespread as the tales of scumbaggery make you think.  I mean, I've read a handful of stories that sound more like urban legends or rehashes of other stories I read.  Even in the cases of scumbaggery- and here's a thought:

Maybe some of these dudes are mentally ill?  Like the guy playing with his penis at the table.  That doesn't sound like Johnny Rape-Joke.  That sounds like someone with a mental condition.  A lot of these stories sound like someone with a mental illness, or at least some kind of mental damage.  Even the dude that lifted my dice- probably some kind of high-functioning autistic or something.

It's food for thought.  As much as 'those people' are always bleating about their mental illnesses and how we can't be 'ableist' about it, I highly doubt any of them have stopped to consider that those 'scumbags' might be mental as well.  But then again, I've never seen a shortage of people claiming mental illness to extract sympathy or get what they want.  It wouldn't shock me at all that they'd refuse to acknowledge that their boogeyman might be mentally ill as well.

Quote from: Crüesader;917315Yeah, and I'm really not thinking this 'scumbag' problem is as widespread as the tales of scumbaggery make you think.  I mean, I've read a handful of stories that sound more like urban legends or rehashes of other stories I read.  Even in the cases of scumbaggery- and here's a thought:

Maybe some of these dudes are mentally ill?  Like the guy playing with his penis at the table.  That doesn't sound like Johnny Rape-Joke.  That sounds like someone with a mental condition.  A lot of these stories sound like someone with a mental illness, or at least some kind of mental damage.  Even the dude that lifted my dice- probably some kind of high-functioning autistic or something.

It's food for thought.  As much as 'those people' are always bleating about their mental illnesses and how we can't be 'ableist' about it, I highly doubt any of them have stopped to consider that those 'scumbags' might be mental as well.  But then again, I've never seen a shortage of people claiming mental illness to extract sympathy or get what they want.  It wouldn't shock me at all that they'd refuse to acknowledge that their boogeyman might be mentally ill as well.

I can understand that mental illness could be the cause, but the choice then comes down to "Is this game here for us to help the player with their mental illness?" or "Is the game here so we could have fun?" I can say that I'd be willing to be someone to talk to privately in this, but all I can offer is sympathy because I simply do not have the skills needed for counseling or helping with that. I'm very reluctant to GM or even be involved in a game that is meant to be someone's therapy, because I do not have the needed expertise for that.

Quote from: jeff37923;917320I can understand that mental illness could be the cause, but the choice then comes down to "Is this game here for us to help the player with their mental illness?" or "Is the game here so we could have fun?" I can say that I'd be willing to be someone to talk to privately in this, but all I can offer is sympathy because I simply do not have the skills needed for counseling or helping with that. I'm very reluctant to GM or even be involved in a game that is meant to be someone's therapy, because I do not have the needed expertise for that.

Oh, absolutely agreed.  Like someone said- gaming isn't your counseling session.  I mean, probably half the problem with these folks on either side is that they haven't gotten the proper help, they find little groups that pander to them or turn a blind eye to their behavior.

Quote from: Crüesader;917315Maybe some of these dudes are mentally ill?

No doubt. But as I said about the autistic kid we had come along - we'll try to accommodate, but in the end it's a roleplaying game group, not group therapy.

Mental illness or injury is just like physical illness or injury, depending on where the person is in the healing process they need different levels of care. I run a garage gym, and while strength training does amazing things for people, sometimes we just can't help you, you need medical care. Likewise with mental illness: exercise, having a social life (of which rpgs may be a part), these things will help most people's mental health. But if you're that sick then we can't help, you need medical care. I'm a trainer, not a doctor; I'm a game master not a psychologist.

Another thing to consider is that the normal range of human behaviour encompasses many things which some would consider symptoms of some mental issue, but which by themselves do not constitute a mental health problem. Mental disorders have diagnostic criteria of "at least X of the following Y things over a 12 month period." For example BPD (http://www.spectrumbpd.com.au/pages/about-borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/formal-diagnostic-criteria-for-bpd.php) has 5 of 9 of the things listed - but a large part of the population is going to have at least one of these things if not today then at some point in their lives. It's much the way you can randomly feel a bit hot for half an hour, or slightly nauseous, or a bit achey - but it's only when you have all three for some hours that we might say, "woops, stomach bug, keep a bucket handy." But just sweating a bit doesn't mean it's time to quarantine you.

But in some people those 1-2 traits persist for years. That is, a person can be a bit disturbed without being mentally ill. For example, in game groups we see a lot of the BPD criteria "impulsivity" and "affective instability." Many gamers just don't think shit through and then get all dramatic about it. But that's at the game table - they're keeping down jobs and relationships, after all. Some don't. Because they're a bit disturbed they find it hard to keep relationships going, so they look for company in game groups. Too much time along and thinking about things makes them a bit weird. Well, okay, usually we can tolerate that. But there are limits.

So we're aware of these issues, we just don't care. That's not what we're at the game table for. If you're playing a game of football and some guy shows up to the match with a broken leg, you're sympathetic - but he needs someone to splint it and put it in a cast. Meanwhile the game must go on. Likewise if you're a bit of a fruit loop, well I'm sorry to hear that, you should get someone to help you with that, meanwhile the game must go on.

Quote from: Crüesader;917248Rich, coming from....

Flame on limp dick.

Quote from: cranebump;917259Speaking as a native Texian (and Army vet), I have to say that this statement is, well, let's say a tad hyperbolic (or, if we're gonna go all Texas, it's bullshit).

Of course it's bullshit. The real question is why the insecure little troll goes all apoplectic when that is pointed out.

Quote from: rgrove0172;917282We are sitting there watching fireworks and it was just too much for us God fearing, patriotic, good ole boys to handle. So we did something about it! Yeah we marched the fuck down there and we.... well no, actually one of us was delegated (the most diplomatic and sober) to head down there with a six pack and offer it in exchange for exchanging the positions of the flag, given this was the USA and it birthday and all. The guy did it no prob, said he didn't know there was a law. He ended up joining us later. That's the type of Texan I can be proud of, doesn't take shit but isn't an idiot either, and that's most of us!

No murderin’ no carving up bodies and tossin’ 'em in dumpsters? Well pardner you clearly aren’t as tough as ol’ Crusader’s pals.

Quote from: Crüesader;917293I've encountered him once before.  I mentioned being in the military and he went hardcore trigger-kin and started claiming I was 'bragging' and 'talking like a tough guy'.

I was in the military, too. And you are pulling an Internet Tough Guy. I mean, "we gamed on base and Iraq." That's nice, but what the fuck does the location of the game table have to do with anything? And that's why I called you Walter Sobchak.

It would only be relevant if you had been playing Recon or Twilight 2000.

Quote from: Bren;917339Flame on limp dick.

More obsession with my penis.  

Quote from: Bren;917339Of course it's bullshit. The real question is why the insecure little troll goes all apoplectic when that is pointed out.

'Troll'- someone that posts something you dislike, right?  Right.  I'm starting to think you are the little SJW of the forums.  And that's rich coming from the guy that's derailed the thread twice to come in here and talk about my penis.

Quote from: Bren;917339No murderin’ no carving up bodies and tossin’ 'em in dumpsters? Well pardner you clearly aren’t as tough as ol’ Crusader’s pals.

When did I say my friends would do this?  Again, like the typical little SJW- you're fabricating stories.  I'm sure we can expect to hear about how terrible white males are from you, right?  Do you have a rape story that you'd like to share with the group to leverage them into taking your side?  

Seriously, though- your reactions are borderlining on an unhealthy obsession.  

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917342I was in the military, too. And you are pulling an Internet Tough Guy. I mean, "we gamed on base and Iraq." That's nice, but what the fuck does the location of the game table have to do with anything? And that's why I called you Walter Sobchak.

Oh, so I'm not supposed to disclose the location because that's bragging.  Right.  No, that makes no sense and you're being an idiot.

I shouldn't talk about gaming at my house, unless I'm playing The Sims or something, right?

Put the piece away, Walter.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917358Put the piece away, Walter.

Just as soon as your fragile ego is safe, I will.

What the fuck is he talking about, Dude?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917360What the fuck is he talking about, Dude?

Do you want to know what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass?

You're not wrong, Walter.  You're just an asshole.

(http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Jeff-Bridges.jpg)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;917362You're not wrong, Walter.  You're just an asshole.

Unapologetically so.

Bren, I think I know what you and Kyle's little game is.  When topics in a thread hit you close to home, you come in and start throwing insults around to attempt to derail them.  You know the thing about swine- if you close your eyes and cast a stone, they squeal and you know you've struck one.

One idiot thinks that talking about my former job and things I collect is being an 'internet tough guy'.  The other doesn't think you're allowed to talk about playing games on a military base unless you're playing a military game.  

If this is what passes for logic around here, it's no wonder the hipsters own our hobby.

I always wanted to play in Iraq.  I was never in camp for long enough to join the game though.  

We did have a cool game in fort Sill though.

Nah, tossing threats around online and talking about how you'd beat people up is being an Internet Tough Guy. The military references are just icing on the cake. Like the BPD diagnostic criteria, they are alone nothing significant, it's the whole package. The DMS-V will include this,

Formal diagnostic criteria for Walter Sohchak
4 or more of the following criteria present over some time
1. extreme sensitivity to perceived slights and quick to anger
2. offering hyperbolic threats
3. obesity
4. frequent and irrelevant references to two or more of Merika, Duh Constitushun, Mah Freedum and ownership of firearms
5. frequent and irrelevant references to previous military service of self or family members
6. references to "knowing people who can get things done, if you know what I mean"

I don't know if you're fat, but you fulfil 4 and perhaps 5 of the 6, so I hereby diagnose you as a sufferer of Walter Sobchak. It does seem to be a peculiarly American condition, the Sobchak, but I think other countries have their own versions, replace #4 with "football and foreign bastards" and you get the Basher Bruce, the Aussie version.

I'm not insulting you, I'm mocking you with parody. cf your compatriot Larry Flynt and the story of the reverend fucking his mother in the outhouse. Walter was funny as shit, and so are you. And neither of you would understand why, because you take yourself very, very seriously. Which of course invites more mockery, just ask Pundit. As with Pundit, I speak of course only of your online persona, which may or may not bear any resemblance to how you present yourselves in person (indignant bluster tends to be dampened in person, I find).

Taking this once again back to the thread's topic, players who take themselves very, very seriously tend to be not much fun at the game table. You can make fun of them a bit and that's a good laugh at the time, but one day they pull a piece or threaten to smack someone in the head or something, and things kinda go downhill from there. I've not yet had to ask one formally to leave, but usually they'll storm off in righteous nerdfury.

Your roll, Walter.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917391Nah, tossing threats around online and talking about how you'd beat people up is being an Internet Tough Guy. The military references are just icing on the cake. Like the BPD diagnostic criteria, they are alone nothing significant, it's the whole package. The DMS-V will include this.

Except, I've done none of that except in your own imagination.  If you have to lie for a diagnosis, then you're being insincere.  Please, grow the fuck up.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;9173911. extreme sensitivity to perceived slights and quick to anger

I'm pretty nice.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;9173912. offering hyperbolic threats

I've made no threats.  Show me where I made a threat, please

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;9173913. obesity

I weigh 187 pounds at 5'9".

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;9173914. frequent and irrelevant references to two or more of Merika, Duh Constitushun, Mah Freedum and ownership of firearms

I own them.  So?  Hoplophobia is a sad condition.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;9173915. frequent and irrelevant references to previous military service of self or family members

Yeah, I served.  So?  If I mention playing while deployed, or being stationed somewhere- it's 'gloating'?  Wow, I knew you diggers were useless but I didn't know you were insecure.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;9173916. references to "knowing people who can get things done, if you know what I mean"

Well, we all know someone who claims this.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917391I don't know if you're fat, but you fulfil 4 and perhaps 5 of the 6, so I hereby diagnose you as a sufferer of Walter Sobchak. It does seem to be a peculiarly American condition, the Sobchak, but I think other countries have their own versions, replace #4 with "football and foreign bastards" and you get the Basher Bruce, the Aussie version.

You really aren't fit to diagnose anything, because I meet 2 of them.  Sorry you're threatened by someone mentioning a career choice, I guess?  I guess in your land, they teach you to be ashamed of it.  

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917391I'm not insulting you, I'm mocking you with parody. cf your compatriot Larry Flynt and the story of the reverend fucking his mother in the outhouse. Walter was funny as shit, and so are you. And neither of you would understand why, because you take yourself very, very seriously. Which of course invites more mockery, just ask Pundit. As with Pundit, I speak of course only of your online persona, which may or may not bear any resemblance to how you present yourselves in person (indignant bluster tends to be dampened in person, I find).

Except since your semi-diagnosis was mostly fabrications, you're projecting something you want me to be.  You're simply another guy, that takes offense at something he can't be or just doesn't like.  Dude, it's okay.  There's no women on this thread.  And as much as Bren is obsessed with my penis- he's not getting laid out of this, either.  Don't worry about credibility- you have none.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;917391Taking this once again back to the thread's topic, players who take themselves very, very seriously tend to be not much fun at the game table. You can make fun of them a bit and that's a good laugh at the time, but one day they pull a piece or threaten to smack someone in the head or something, and things kinda go downhill from there. I've not yet had to ask one formally to leave, but usually they'll storm off in righteous nerdfury.

Your roll, Walter.

If this is the sort of person you associate with, with the way that you get triggered and fabricate things- this guy might be the best thing to happen to you.

About half my gaming buddies have been veterans, including me. The guy that always talked about his status as a former soldier was the one who got discharged before he even finished boot camp. Funny stuff.

What was actually said...

Quote from: Crüesader;917154Wearing something like that in Texas with as many veterans as there are around here, you mind end up in a dumpster.  Or several.  

Was that a simple observation on the nature of certain Texans, a hyperbolic joke about the nature of certain Texans, an indirect threat suggesting it would be not good to express certain ideas around certain Texans in Cruesaders neck of the woods (or plains)?  I have no idea, but let's not have another go of the whole "arguing about what was said or didn't" for another 15 pages. Just start quoting actual text and deal with what anyone can see was actually posted.

Quote from: Manzanaro;917393About half my gaming buddies have been veterans, including me. The guy that always talked about his status as a former soldier was the one who got discharged before he even finished boot camp. Funny stuff.

I mean, unless you can get your E-6 in basic training... I was medically discharged.

Quote from: CRKrueger;917394What was actually said...


Was that a simple observation on the nature of certain Texans, a hyperbolic joke about the nature of certain Texans, an indirect threat suggesting it would be not good to express certain ideas around certain Texans in Cruesaders neck of the woods (or plains)?  I have no idea, but let's not have another go of the whole "arguing about what was said or didn't" for another 15 pages. Just start quoting actual text and deal with what anyone can see was actually posted.

More or less 'we have loons here that take that a bit too seriously'.  

But you know some of these people- Oh, wait.  I can write a Diagnosis... for our friend here...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]349[/ATTACH]

Quote from: Crüesader;917369Bren, I think I know what you and Kyle's little game is.

You manifestly have no clue what my game is.

And I have no clue what Kyle's game is, though I'm thinking that I really have to watch the Big Lebowski.

QuoteWhen topics in a thread hit you close to home, you come in and start throwing insults around to attempt to derail them.

The topic of the thread was not murdering and dismembering people. You introduced that one all on your own. I pointed out that sort of behavior was inconsistent with either a land of the free or the actions of the brave and you went batshit crazy squealing about commies and SJWs. Which is laughable, but apparently to you an SJW is anyone who doesn't salute when you drop your turd in the punchbowl.

QuoteOne idiot thinks that talking about my former job and things I collect is being an 'internet tough guy'.

No limpdick there's nothing wrong with talking about jobs or your little collections. You can talk about either to your heart's content. Feel free to natter on about how many, what kind, and how big your guns are…or talk about your collections of GI Joe and My Little Pony figures for all I care. If what you say is relevant to gaming people are likely to appreciate it. If it’s irrelevant, most of us will probably just roll our eyes and ignore you.

The thing I object to is your pathetic weird penchant for “exaggeration” which always involves tough talking about how either current or former military or your fellow Texans are going to frighten, hurt, maim, or murder someone who makes you squeal by doing something so totally heinous as to display a tasteless and tacky t-shirt where you might see it.

QuoteIf this is what passes for logic around here, it's no wonder the hipsters own our hobby.

Hipsters probably own your ass cupcake, but they don’t own my hobby. Despite what they or you may say to the contrary.

Quote from: Bren;917396You manifestly have no clue what my game is.

Yes, it is.  It's a tired, old, sad game.

Quote from: Bren;917396The topic of the thread was not murdering and dismembering people. You introduced that one all on your own. I pointed out that sort of behavior was inconsistent with either a land of the free or the actions of the brave and you went batshit crazy squealing about commies and SJWs. Which is laughable, but apparently to you an SJW is anyone who doesn't salute when you drop your turd in the punchbowl.

Actually, no- you took a reference about the area I live near and had an emotional meltdown.  To me- well, it's just like you.  Whiny, trying to derail everything when someone steps on its little pet cause.  Like I said, swine squeal when you hit them.  And here you squeal, trying to derail the topic because something hit close to home.

Quote from: Bren;917396No limpdick there's nothing wrong with talking about jobs or your little collections. You can talk about either to your heart's content. Feel free to natter on about how many, what kind, and how big your guns are…or talk about your collections of GI Joe and My Little Pony figures for all I care. If what you say is relevant to gaming people are likely to appreciate it. If it’s irrelevant, most of us will probably just roll our eyes and ignore you.

Actually- you've deluded yourself 2 ways:  You don't speak for 'most of us'.  You speak for yourself.  And the other delusion is that you seem to think that what you appreciate matters to me.  Look, dude you have your thing and I'm sorry you're triggered.  But you should get that looked at by a professional.  Or stop being a little bitch.

Quote from: Bren;917396The thing I object to is your pathetic weird penchant for “exaggeration” which always involves tough talking about how either current or former military or your fellow Texans are going to frighten, hurt, maim, or murder someone who makes you squeal by doing something so totally heinous as to display a tasteless and tacky t-shirt where you might see it.

Whatever keeps vermin like you out of the area, you're welcome to believe.  But oh, someone mentioned violence and you're upset!  Oh no!  Go get your three feet of steel, ahorse or afoot.

Quote from: Bren;917396Hipsters probably own your ass cupcake, but they don’t own my hobby. Despite what they or you may say to the contrary.

I'm not the one that's scrambling to find games that they haven't contaminated.  I'm not the one desperately scribbling poor knock-offs of forgotten games down to pretend that my community is still 'strong'.  Face it- they took it from you and drove you to the recesses of the internet.  If there were better creatures than you in the hobby, they'd still be whining about butts in video games.

If your hobby wasn't owned, wrecked, and ruined- you'd have better things to worry about me.

Bren, I know people like you.  At some point, years ago- you thought about taking your own life.  I want you to know... you came to the wrong conclusion.

Quote from: Bren;917396I'm thinking that I really have to watch the Big Lebowski.

Everyone has to watch the Big Lebowski. Everyone. Yes, even Queen Elizabeth.

Quote from: Crüesader;917397Like I said, swine squeal when you hit them.

Cupcake, you'd know about swine, you're doing more squealing than Ned Beatty in Deliverance.

Quote from: CRKrueger;917399Everyone has to watch the Big Lebowski. Everyone. Yes, even Queen Elizabeth.

Like, seriously.  You can't not watch that movie.  I showed it to some Korean dudes and now 'Shut the Fuck up Donny' and 'You're out of your element, Donny' is a standard reply.

Quote from: Bren;917401Cupcake, you'd know about swine, you're doing more squealing than Ned Beatty in Deliverance.

Coming from the little piggy that's been itching to derail a topic so it can talk about my penis, that's cute.   Seriously, the only thing you're in denial over more than failing our hobby- is your obsession with another man's cock.

Quote from: CRKrueger;917399Everyone has to watch the Big Lebowski. Everyone. Yes, even Queen Elizabeth.

OK. OK. Point taken.

Or watch any other Coen Brothers movie, all of which are better. But it has its fans.

Quote from: Manzanaro;917412Or watch any other Coen Brothers movie, all of which are better. But it has its fans.

It's the most "out there" of all the Coen movies by far, yet Bridges somehow plays it straight compared to some of the more zany examples like Barton Fink or Hail Caesar.  It's a Coen Brothers movie, but at the same time it's own thing.  Not their best or their worst, but certainly different.

Quote from: Crüesader;917397Bren, I know people like you.  At some point, years ago- you thought about taking your own life.  I want you to know... you came to the wrong conclusion.

As a vet you should know that we are far more likely to have a bad moment with a bottle and a Berratta that he is.  So one, not cool.  Two, tactically poor.

What the flying fuck is this trainwreck?

Quote from: Rincewind1;917419What the flying fuck is this trainwreck?

It's the new RPGsite baby!

Complete with probable sock-puppets, aspergers, OCD, LSD and LCD!

Quote from: One Horse Town;917422It's the new RPGsite baby!

Complete with probable sock-puppets, aspergers, OCD, LSD and LCD!

I'll take double LSD on the rocks. And hold the ice.

Quote from: Kellri;917136Real Communists don't wear iconic T-shirts. In fact, in 17 years, I've yet to see one single Vietnamese wearing an Uncle Ho shirt. They sell them in the backpacker district alongside the Same Same But Different and Got Pho? shirts, but for pretty obvious reasons, no one who lives here would be caught dead wearing any of them, especially a local. OTOH, locals do tend to wear some really stupid shit. At the moment, marijuana themes and old school hip-hop slogans seem pretty popular. It always brings a smile to my face when I see somebody's grandma wearing a ganja-print hoodie on the way to the market or a teen girl in the mall with a 'Fuck the Police' shirt.

It might have to do more with the cycles of sales in clothing industry - outlet stores routinely sell what they could not first to the second hand stores, than to African/Asian markets, usually stuff that'd not even cut it in second - hand anymore. Or something like that.

Quote from: One Horse Town;917422It's the new RPGsite baby!

Complete with probable sock-puppets, aspergers, OCD, LSD and LCD!

QED.

I wanted everyone to know that I am triggered by the anger in this thread, especially references to drugs and ass rape.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;917479I wanted everyone to know that I am triggered by the anger in this thread, especially references to drugs and ass rape.

I'm triggered by people talking about how they are triggered.  I just triggered myself by talking about you talking about being triggered and then triggered myself again by talking about that.  I may die from infinite triggering because of that post.

Quote from: yosemitemike;917496I'm triggered by people talking about how they are triggered.  I just triggered myself by talking about you talking about being triggered and then triggered myself again by talking about that.  I may die from infinite triggering because of that post.

Your self-triggering is ruining my safe space and...aw, fuck. I can't even fake this! yosemitemike, wins.

Anyway, the banter from Bren & Friends is priceless to read and honestly, it's so much better than reading about people I'd never play with. And Bren apparently has a cupcake fetish, which is fine. I'm not judging.

Quote from: Headless;917418As a vet you should know that we are far more likely to have a bad moment with a bottle and a Berratta that he is.  So one, not cool.  Two, tactically poor.

Tactically poor? Dickish, maybe. It's not an RTS or even an argument. I doubt he cares if he "wins".

His allies, the people who share his experience are more likely to die of  sushi side than his enemies.  So tactically poor.  

But everyone has realized this is a train wreck at this point so it may not matter.

Quote from: Headless;917418As a vet you should know that we are far more likely to have a bad moment with a bottle and a Berratta that he is.  So one, not cool.  Two, tactically poor.

Oh, I simply... do not care.  

And Berettas are for losers.

Quote from: Headless;917507His allies, the people who share his experience are more likely to die of  sushi side than his enemies.  So tactically poor.  

But everyone has realized this is a train wreck at this point so it may not matter.

Because there's a small group of people on this site that get triggered and immediately turn the thread into a flame-fest and derail it if they're offended.

But Berratta causes alliteration, where desert eagle does not.

Quote from: Headless;917516But Berratta causes alliteration, where desert eagle does not.

Desert Eagles also cause poverty, because they're absurdly expensive for a really overhyped 'Hollywood' gun, and you do have a point.

Quote from: Headless;917516But Berratta causes alliteration, where desert eagle does not.

"Butt BerEtta" is what I calls mah penis! And is alliteration a condition one suffers from Butt Berettas? It would explain my ex-wife's behavior...

Yes, that was childish. I liked it.

Quote from: Headless;917507His allies, the people who share his experience are more likely to die of  sushi side than his enemies.  So tactically poor.  

But everyone has realized this is a train wreck at this point so it may not matter.

You realize this entire train wreck was started when you demanded things about stuff that wasn't said. It's very much a less screamy version of Zarna Joshi (sp?) flipping her shit over a guy saying his name was "Hugh Mongous", meaning "perceived as wrong while not being so under any sane scrutiny".

Quote from: Crüesader;917513...Berettas are for losers.

Isn't the M9 used by pretty much the entire US armed forces?

Quote from: Crüesader;917513And Berettas are for losers.

I'll guess!

A Ruger10-22
Because everyone and his dog has one of these.  I own one.

A striker fired handgun
Probably a Glock.  Maybe a Springfield XD.  I'll guess a Glock 19.

A 12 gauge shotgun
Either a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870.  Based on other comments, I'll go with the Remington 870.

A level action .30-.30
I'll go with the stereotype here.  A Henry or a Winchester with brass and an octagonal barrel.  Maybe this one is just here because I want one of those myself.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;917479I wanted everyone to know that I am triggered by the anger in this thread, especially references to drugs and ass rape.

"Bring out the gimp."

Since, you know, we're quoting from brilliant American movies and all :)

I'd put the gimp on Headless, it's probably his kind of thing.

Quote from: yosemitemike;917537A level action .30-.30
I'll go with the stereotype here.  A Henry or a Winchester with brass and an octagonal barrel.  Maybe this one is just here because I want one of those myself.

Lever. I always liked that kind of rifle. I would have taken that in preference to that UD-making piece of shit the Steyr.

Closed, i think.

Quote from: Headless;916175I was going to I couldn't find you saying it the second time through but...

"I mean, what a load of nonsense. I'm sorry, but if you are imagining you are being raped all the time everywhere you go, you may want to consider it might be you." -Pundit.

Now what?

Also as far as I remember I didn't call you a liar.

You accused me of saying "She asked for it". That is not what this quote, even taken out of context like you have, is saying. I'm not saying she was raped and deserved it, or that she deserves to be raped. I'm saying she's mentally ill if she honestly imagines herself being raped everywhere she goes. But the rest of the blog entry makes it very clear it's not even that. She is just a liar.

Quote from: Headless;916552Pundit was blameing the victim. Or I though he was so that what I was focusing on.  

No, I was correctly blaming the perpetrator.