Players owning a copy of your rules?

Anthrobot · October 23, 2007, 05:57:04 AM

Do you mind players owning a copy of the game you run? Or do you think that it leads to rules lawyer behaviour?

droog · October 23, 2007, 06:03:22 AM

How am I going to stop them?

Anthrobot · October 23, 2007, 06:09:58 AM

Quote from: droogHow am I going to stop them?

Good question. I've noticed that some GMs balk like crazy over players owning any game that they run. Usually the GMs that like to run a lot of prewritten scenarios.

Imperator · October 23, 2007, 06:10:44 AM

Quote from: AnthrobotDo you mind players owning a copy of the game you run? Or do you think that it leads to rules lawyer behaviour?

I would like for them all to own a copy and learn it. But they're lazy bastards.

Premier · October 23, 2007, 06:12:36 AM

Far as I'm concerned, they can even memorise the rulebook page by page. As long as they understand that the ultimate authority on rulings is me, not the book, and that I can and will change and twist the rules as I please.

Ronin · October 23, 2007, 06:56:19 AM

Quote from: ImperatorI would like for them all to own a copy and learn it. But they're lazy bastards.

Amen, brother! I have the same problem. I cant even get one of them to glance over the rules. And their free!

droog · October 23, 2007, 06:59:55 AM

Whose free? And what's a free?

Balbinus · October 23, 2007, 07:17:11 AM

I don't have an issue with it, in fact I'm all for it, it means we have a better chance of at least one of us knowing the rules.

I used to have a player knew Gurps backwards, certainly better than I did (and I knew it fairly well), we just referred all rules questions to him.

Players knowing the rules is only a problem if the player is a dick, and I prefer not to play with dicks. If I had an otherwise good player who couldn't help rules lawyering a bit (and that does happen, good players can have faults like anyone else) then I'd choose a game less susceptible to rules lawyering and let them learn that.

Trevelyan · October 23, 2007, 07:29:09 AM

Like several of the above, I prefer my players to own and learn the rules for games that I run. In many games it's almost essential (how can a player play a reasonable caster in D&D without access to the spells, for example).

I find it odd that some GMs would actively discourage players from owning a copy of the rules. The suggestion that it leads to rules lawyering is a fault of the individual player and seems a trivial reason to object.

Balbinus · October 23, 2007, 07:40:58 AM

Quote from: TrevelyanLike several of the above, I prefer my players to own and learn the rules for games that I run. In many games it's almost essential (how can a player play a reasonable caster in D&D without access to the spells, for example).

I find it odd that some GMs would actively discourage players from owning a copy of the rules. The suggestion that it leads to rules lawyering is a fault of the individual player and seems a trivial reason to object.

It suggests to me GM control freakery, a GM who is perhaps GM because they want to control what happens in the play and that sees the players as secondary participants.

Warthur · October 23, 2007, 07:44:41 AM

I don't have any rules lawyers in my current group, but even if I did I think the occasional bit of rules-lawyering is more than a fair price to pay for having all the players (or even some of the players) be fully conversant with the rules; the sheer amount of time you save when the players understand how the game works far outweighs any tiny blips which might crop up when players point out contradictory rules or say "hey, is this obscure optional thingy in play?"

Caesar Slaad · October 23, 2007, 08:05:26 AM

I guess the grass is greener on the other side. I'd prefer more of my players to own the rules than do. Rules lawyering is not a problem IMC.

(Of course, my players usually at least own the core books. They are all educators and have cheap access to printers on campus. They just buy the PDF and print it for free. I'd still prefer more of them knew the rules better.)

Balbinus · October 23, 2007, 08:13:39 AM

I think we only have one player who actually cares much what the rules are, two maybe three who care a bit and two who don't much mind as long as they know which dice to roll.

And the one who does care isn't a rules lawyer, he just thinks more tactically than the rest of us.

So to be honest my issue isn't the players knowing the rules too well, it's them not really knowing them, and when I'm a player as I often am I generally don't bother learning them myself either.

I mean hell, if the game's rules actually need to be learnt to any meaningful degree they're really a bit too complex for my tastes.

Xanther · October 23, 2007, 08:29:20 AM

What Balbinus has said. I really prefer that players know the rules as well. My expereince is that few do -I'm guilty of this as well when I play- and don't really have to. I also don't mind rules lawyering, if the actual rule makes me or "what" as a GM, then there is usually soemthing really winky with the rule and I've been fortunate to paly almost exclusively with palyers who agree that maybe this rule needs some help. Then we'll all come to some agreement on a change.

flyingmice · October 23, 2007, 09:22:32 AM

I encourage it.

Doesn't mean they do, of course!

-clash