Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1142225I'd run 1e AD&D (and probably use Greyhawk). To me, that's the de facto standard for "this is Dungeons & Dragons."

Sounds about right.

Savage Worlds SWADE Edition+ Greybox Forgotten Realms for the setting.

If you're going to force me to use a D&D edition... I'll go 2e with Greybox Realms

Spells, magic items, and monsters from AD&D 1E.

Classes are only Fighters, Clerics, and Magic-Users from OD&D. Paladins, Druids, Bards, Elves, and other hybrids are all based on the OD&D Cleric. Rangers, Barbarians, Thieves, etc. are simply Fighters with less armor.

Combat is AD&D 2E hit, save, and spell charts, ONLY.

Setting and fluff is MIUAYG, or "make-it-up-as-you-go."

No initiative, just surprise checks. Everyone gets one attack or one spell per round. Instead of attacking or casting, you can optionally run away, if possible.

No XP. PC's level-up after winning a number of "meaningful" encounters equal to the level they are trying to attain. Running away isn't winning. Opponents must always be of equal or superior strength to qualify as "meaningful." Strength is measured strictly by HD/HP/Level.

That's it.

Quote from: Kael;1142360Spells, magic items, and monsters from AD&D 1E.

Classes are only Fighters, Clerics, and Magic-Users from OD&D. Paladins, Druids, Bards, Elves, and other hybrids are all based on the OD&D Cleric. Rangers, Barbarians, Thieves, etc. are simply Fighters with less armor.

Combat is AD&D 2E hit, save, and spell charts, ONLY.

Setting and fluff is MIUAYG, or "make-it-up-as-you-go."

No initiative, just surprise checks. Everyone gets one attack or one spell per round. Instead of attacking or casting, you can optionally run away, if possible.

No XP. PC's level-up after winning a number of "meaningful" encounters equal to the level they are trying to attain. Running away isn't winning. Opponents must always be of equal or superior strength to qualify as "meaningful." Strength is measured strictly by HD/HP/Level.

That's it.

How would you handle Thief skills, for a sneaky fighter with less armor?  In OD&D, I believe it was d6 Roll Low.  That seems super simple, to me.

Quote from: Razor 007;1142378How would you handle Thief skills, for a sneaky fighter with less armor?  In OD&D, I believe it was d6 Roll Low.  That seems super simple, to me.

You nailed it, basically. Non-thieves roll skill checks with a base 2-in-6 chance. Thieves double it with a 4-in-6 chance, mimicking the race bonuses. If you want something more "official" just use the Hear Noise check for all skills. It already has a Gygaxian d6 Thief skill progression ready-to-go. Just use that for everything kinda like a S&W-style single save.

Or, you could give them a progression like...

Level 1-4: 3 in 6
Level 5-8: 4 in 6
Level 9+: 5 in 6

Or, everyone gets a skill progression of...

Level 1-4: 2 in 6
Level 5-8: 3 in 6
Level 9+: 4 in 6

While wearing leather armor or less, you get a +1 to the above.

Essentially, you are trading armor class for a small skill check bonus. And in reality, doing anything sneaky should be easier without plate or chain armor, so it makes sense without being fiddly. To me, Thieves/Rogues should not be another class. A Thief is just a Fighter wearing leather armor. Anyone choosing to wear leather (or no) armor is awarded certain perks.

But, in the spirit of OD&D, I'd just say something like, "if you're going on a stealth mission, or if you want to be sneaky overall, I'd suggest you wear leather armor or less or your life will be very difficult." No extra rules needed.

Quote from: Kael;1142394You nailed it, basically. Non-thieves roll skill checks with a base 2-in-6 chance. Thieves double it with a 4-in-6 chance, mimicking the race bonuses. If you want something more "official" just use the Hear Noise check for all skills. It already has a Gygaxian d6 Thief skill progression ready-to-go. Just use that for everything kinda like a S&W-style single save.

Or, you could give them a progression like...

Level 1-4: 3 in 6
Level 5-8: 4 in 6
Level 9+: 5 in 6

Or, everyone gets a skill progression of...

Level 1-4: 2 in 6
Level 5-8: 3 in 6
Level 9+: 4 in 6

While wearing leather armor or less, you get a +1 to the above.

Essentially, you are trading armor class for a small skill check bonus. And in reality, doing anything sneaky should be easier without plate or chain armor, so it makes sense without being fiddly. To me, Thieves/Rogues should not be another class. A Thief is just a Fighter wearing leather armor. Anyone choosing to wear leather (or no) armor is awarded certain perks.

But, in the spirit of OD&D, I'd just say something like, "if you're going on a stealth mission, or if you want to be sneaky overall, I'd suggest you wear leather armor or less or your life will be very difficult." No extra rules needed.

I love the simple spirit of OD&D.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1142162I wasn't being entirely sarcastic about 3rd edition, though. Despite all its flaws (and there are many) I still tend to think of it as the best edition of D&D ever made, at least in concept, though, the implementation sucks! I would...

Agree on 3E. Once you strip away the excesses (mostly prcs and 3PP) it's a solid game. My ideal is E6. You're on the right track with your fixes:

• reduce "feat taxes" (yes)
• eliminate feat requirements (yes)
• level cap on skills, around 10 ranks or so (maybe)
• eliminate "class skills" (yes)
• replace it with a +2 bonus (maybe)
• caster levels a universal feature all classes contribute to, kinda like BABs (not sure)

I would also:

• combine some of the 3.5 skills (H + MS = stealth, etc.)
• nerf druids
• ditch monks
• ditch prcs
• ditch confirming crits
• use vp/wp

Have you ever seen Trailblazer? It attempts to fix 3.5's problems.

Quote from: Aglondir;1142713Agree on 3E. Once you strip away the excesses (mostly prcs and 3PP) it's a solid game. My ideal is E6. You're on the right track with your fixes:

• reduce "feat taxes" (yes)
• eliminate feat requirements (yes)
• level cap on skills, around 10 ranks or so (maybe)
• eliminate "class skills" (yes)
• replace it with a +2 bonus (maybe)
• caster levels a universal feature all classes contribute to, kinda like BABs (not sure)

I would also:

• combine some of the 3.5 skills (H + MS = stealth, etc.)
• nerf druids
• ditch monks
• ditch prcs
• ditch confirming crits
• use vp/wp

Have you ever seen Trailblazer? It attempts to fix 3.5's problems.

That honestly kinda just sounds like Pathfinder 2e.

Quote from: ZetaRidley;1143478That honestly kinda just sounds like Pathfinder 2e.

No, he didn't mention adding paragraphs of apologies to cater the game to special snowflakes.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1142210I never burden new players with rules. I want them to get into the roleplaying ASAP.

I think this is the key. If you want to showcase the game you really don't want to spend a half hour creating characters, which is where 5E falls down. Even with pregens, you have to spend a lot of time explaining stuff.

I think that I would either go with OD&D or Moldvay/Cook B/X. Simple rules, no skills or funky extras to confuse a player. You have a race and/or class and a few stats and you start them off. I've heard great things about B1 and B2, but I've never actually played or run either so I would probably go with something different. Probably a homebrew dungeon full of some puzzles and traps and monsters to kill.

Quote from: ZetaRidley;1143478That honestly kinda just sounds like Pathfinder 2e.

or ditch PF2... and just mosey over to the Thunderdome thread and behold Fantasy Craft for the apotheosis of 3e design.

Quote from: Razor 007;1143479No, he didn't mention adding paragraphs of apologies to cater the game to special snowflakes.

DnD has always been about special snowflakes since the first time someone wanted to talk about their character.

When I introduce noobs to D&D on Roll20 (it's been awhile, since covid-19), I use my own Crimson Dragon Slayer D20.  It's what I envision D&D to be if I'm trying to download the purest form of basic, old-school (with a modern advance or two) fantasy roleplaying into a stranger's brain.  Few, but meaningful choices.  A couple bells and whistles, nothing distracting.  It's not geared for lengthy campaigns... one-shots and shorter campaigns are ideal.  And it's FREE!

VS

System: AD&D 2E (my favorite edition of the game). Castles & Crusades or Old-School Essentials would also be acceptable.

World: Greybox Forgotten Realms.

Quote from: Razor 007;1142150If you were going to expose people to the D&D fantasy genre, and you wanted to show it in all of its glory; what system, edition, setting, options, adventures, etc. would you run?

Rules cyclopedia, with Mystara.