they would find out easily because thats there job you have to work to hide a murder

and just because somebody went raping away from the city the victim can always turn them in to the guard

also why does the stabbing become non-literal just because it had a purpose

Quote from: Sommerjon;805686There is a slight difference in Billy stabbing you in the back to get the corner office and Billy literally stabbing you in the back.

Strange that you two are willing to use; Idealism, Ego, Money, Power, Sex, Envy, Sloth, self preservation, Laziness, Hero complexes, Faith, Allegiance as reasons to justify hooking up with someone you absolutely loathe when the easiest thing for you to do is say "Nope, bye"
I have little interest in games where David Duke is hanging with Al Sharpton cuz Conflict!

Why would your players do rapes murders and pillages in front of the city guard?  Do they also radio ahead to the local dungeon that they are coming?

How would they find out so easily?

Um don't know if we can be any clearer on this...
Start with the list I guess....
Idealism - You see the best in everyone and believe then can be persuaded to do right simply by seeing others charting that course
Ego - you know that anyone one they meet you will be won over by your charisma and charm. They simply wouldn't be able to imagine doing you harm.
Money - there is a huge pile of loot down in this dungeon somewhere and anyone that is prepared to help you get a share of it is in
Power - you need to recover the Lost crown of Ages and with it you will be able to rule the world. You will of course need some help any bunch of proles will do
Sex - you so want to shag this guy that you will put up with him coming along on a quest just if it gives you the chance to bang him later, even if it means you have to put up with his whining and moaning
etc
etc

I mean 90% of D&D parties form up ad hoc in a tavern cos some old geezer asked if any one there would be interested in going to a really dangerous place and bringing back a McGuffin  Do you really think they are all going to instantly be willing to lay down their lives for each other on the basis of a shared pint?

Quote from: tuypo1;805687they would find out easily because that's their job you have to work to hide a murder

and just because somebody went raping away from the city the victim can always turn them in to the guard

also why does the stabbing become non-literal just because it had a purpose

You don't have to work nearly as hard you seem to think you do to hide a murder.  If the City Guard can easily find the culprit behind the murder, convenient...

Because in one you lose an office, the other you are dead?

Quote from: jibbajibba;805688Um don't know if we can be any clearer on this...
Start with the list I guess....
Idealism - You see the best in everyone and believe then can be persuaded to do right simply by seeing others charting that course
Ego - you know that anyone one they meet you will be won over by your charisma and charm. They simply wouldn't be able to imagine doing you harm.
Money - there is a huge pile of loot down in this dungeon somewhere and anyone that is prepared to help you get a share of it is in
Power - you need to recover the Lost crown of Ages and with it you will be able to rule the world. You will of course need some help any bunch of proles will do
Sex - you so want to shag this guy that you will put up with him coming along on a quest just if it gives you the chance to bang him later, even if it means you have to put up with his whining and moaning
etc
etc

Idealism - You see the best in everyone and believe then can be persuaded to do right simply by seeing others charting that course
And if you have no PC to play this off of? Where is the Conflict?  Or is this when the Player goes out of their way to recruit crazy psycho NPC to redeem?
Ego - you know that anyone one they meet you will be won over by your charisma and charm. They simply wouldn't be able to imagine doing you harm.
And if every PC falls for your charismatic charm?  Where is the Conflict?  Or is this when the Player pushes into dick territory to see how far the others will be willing to let the Ego rule the table?
Money - there is a huge pile of loot down in this dungeon somewhere and anyone that is prepared to help you get a share of it is in
Oh that's the character Billy made so deal with it?  Yeah, no.
Power - you need to recover the Lost crown of Ages and with it you will be able to rule the world. You will of course need some help any bunch of proles will do
You actually expect to be able to find and recover such a great artifact with whatever semi warm bodies show up?  You wont care to even do any do diligence on who and what they are?  Are you Mr. Ego in disguise?
Sex - you so want to shag this guy that you will put up with him coming along on a quest just if it gives you the chance to bang him later, even if it means you have to put up with his whining and moaning
The sole purpose of your character is to fuck another PC?  Yeah, no.  Sorry I'm here to game not to live out your fuck fantasies.

Quote from: jibbajibba;805688I mean 90% of D&D parties form up ad hoc in a tavern cos some old geezer asked if any one there would be interested in going to a really dangerous place and bringing back a McGuffin  Do you really think they are all going to instantly be willing to lay down their lives for each other on the basis of a shared pint?

For a person who prides himself on how great he is a spinning a yearn, 90% of your games start in a tavern looking for a dangerous place to loot a MacGuffin?  Is that how Power hoodwinked Ego, Sex, and Idealism?  But then again, Sex is there cuz they gots to fuck Ego, Ego is there to prove to Power that Ego is better than Power, poor Idealism is there to show Power, Ego and Sex that they should be doing right, and finally Monies.  This is great because...Conflict! :rolleyes:
That explains a lot.

If that's what you like. Go for it :cheerleader:
Me, I find that not fun and boring.

oh you were talking about metaphoric backstabing

yeah you can hide a body but you cant stop a rape victim from going to the authoritys (well you can there is a spell somewhere that stops people from talking about a specific subject im not sure where it is though)

as for pillaging somebody is going to notice all that missing stuff


now onto your sex hatred wanting to get into somebody's pants does not make somebody some sort of sex addict a normal character is interested in sex would you rather everybody make asexual characters

hell a sex addiction can make a fine character motivation it works for the lich in my setting

the idealism creates conflicts with the characters that are not idealists and just want to kill the person and go on to the next adventure

Quote from: tuypo1;805687they would find out easily because thats there job you have to work to hide a murder

and just because somebody went raping away from the city the victim can always turn them in to the guard

You actually have no idea at all of how pre-modern "justice" really worked, do you.

who said anything about pre modern justice its a fantasy world they have the technology

Quote from: Sommerjon;805689You don't have to work nearly as hard you seem to think you do to hide a murder.  If the City Guard can easily find the culprit behind the murder, convenient...

Because in one you lose an office, the other you are dead?


Idealism - You see the best in everyone and believe then can be persuaded to do right simply by seeing others charting that course
And if you have no PC to play this off of? Where is the Conflict?  Or is this when the Player goes out of their way to recruit crazy psycho NPC to redeem?
Ego - you know that anyone one they meet you will be won over by your charisma and charm. They simply wouldn't be able to imagine doing you harm.
And if every PC falls for your charismatic charm?  Where is the Conflict?  Or is this when the Player pushes into dick territory to see how far the others will be willing to let the Ego rule the table?
Money - there is a huge pile of loot down in this dungeon somewhere and anyone that is prepared to help you get a share of it is in
Oh that's the character Billy made so deal with it?  Yeah, no.
Power - you need to recover the Lost crown of Ages and with it you will be able to rule the world. You will of course need some help any bunch of proles will do
You actually expect to be able to find and recover such a great artifact with whatever semi warm bodies show up?  You wont care to even do any do diligence on who and what they are?  Are you Mr. Ego in disguise?
Sex - you so want to shag this guy that you will put up with him coming along on a quest just if it gives you the chance to bang him later, even if it means you have to put up with his whining and moaning
The sole purpose of your character is to fuck another PC?  Yeah, no.  Sorry I'm here to game not to live out your fuck fantasies.

Allof these are totally fine reasons why a PC might align them selves with a group of neardowells to seem on the surface to be entirely untrustworthy.

I had a Bardic Riddlemaster who once allied himself with a bunch of cutthroats because it seemed like the most likely way to help get his friends theatrical troupe a new Patron... in retrospect he was a little too idealistic

QuoteFor a person who prides himself on how great he is a spinning a yearn, 90% of your games start in a tavern looking for a dangerous place to loot a MacGuffin?  Is that how Power hoodwinked Ego, Sex, and Idealism?  But then again, Sex is there cuz they gots to fuck Ego, Ego is there to prove to Power that Ego is better than Power, poor Idealism is there to show Power, Ego and Sex that they should be doing right, and finally Monies.  This is great because...Conflict! :rolleyes:
That explains a lot.

I said 90% of D&D games... I don't run all the D&D games in the world do I ?

In my current campaign we have
A Paladin knight Justicar sent by the order of the Stone to a village being plagued by goblin attacks and his servant.
A representative of the Sidhe Court sent to the same place for ostensibly similar reasons but in reality because the Fairy Queen has felt the rumblings of a dark force from ages past and needs to know the details.
A Warlock who actually works for said dark force and has been attached to the group through said forces machinations of the Order of the Stones higher ranking politicos
A local man who has been the one leading the local defense (local hero Background)
They were joined briefly by a professional dualist who was just passing through and has since passed through taking the Paladin's warhorse with them.

Everyone has private motivation, everyone has their own hooks.

However I am fully aware that most D&D groups meet in taverns and similar locations as I am sure you are

QuoteIf that's what you like. Go for it :cheerleader:
Me, I find that not fun and boring.

what kind of paladin would let somebody steal there mount

What kind of clown doesn't know the difference between their and there?

Quote from: tuypo1;805694what kind of paladin would let somebody steal there mount

The one that realised he couldn't take it into the goblin warrens as it um ... wouldn't fit and so left it with the other party member who subsequently stole it.

What exactly was he to do about that?
But do doubt like all good paladin mounts Gordon will find his way back to his owner eventually....

fair enough

Quote from: tuypo1;805692who said anything about pre modern justice its a fantasy world they have the technology

The problem of pre modern justice is not technology. It lies in the fact that it was personal, the wronged had to act as prosecutor and investigator. The king and the law where there to keep everything above board and public. So that feuds don't start erupting all over the place.

Even worse for the adventurers, the law and the legal system was focused on handling crime within a community like a town, village, or parish. Much of the proceeding involved people oath swearing that one side said was right and true. However had the most oaths sworn for him won the case.

With places strangers, like adventurers, at an immmediate disadvantage. And if the incident involved two strangers, the local might decide to punish the whole lot of them.

Quote from: jeff37923;805556Granted, the jerks are few and far between, but they do still exist and PvP usually solves them when they are found.

Oh, I've gamed with a lot of 'jerks' over the years; I generally tolerate their behavior, but they usually lose interest in the campaign after a while - no bennies for being a jerk. These days, I save myself a lot of trouble and simply pre-screen players before committing to game with them. I play a lot fewer games, but I've had a lot more 'quality' game time then 'quantity' game time over the past few years.

Of course, this also may be 'cause I'm in such a niche position; I rarely play games, anymore, due to being stereotyped as "that crazy scary Tekumel freak guy GM". I'm looking forward to going to Gary Con this year, simply for the chance to actually play for once...

Quote from: Old Geezer;805593Phil did indeed have a group that actively encouraged PvP, mostly in the form of chicanery.  There is a good reason I switched groups; I wanted to fight the Yan  Koryani, not other players.

What? What? You mean you didn't like all of the backstabbings, poisonings, murders, and rapes that the bright lads in the Monday group felt were at the core of good role-playing?

I'm shocked, just shocked to hear this - you mean you came over to our "nerd group" (as Phil used to describe us) to explore and have fun?

Quote from: Old Geezer;805594I have an extremely low threshold for pseudo-intellectual/literary pretentious wankery, especially after watching it destroy Tekumel.

This. And it's still going on, too.