Quote from: Domina on September 21, 2023, 11:00:04 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 21, 2023, 02:04:30 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 21, 2023, 01:55:13 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 20, 2023, 03:46:00 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 20, 2023, 09:14:35 AM
I'm working on urban fantasy, but inserting gothic castles into modern cities a la Buffy vs Dracula is totally something I'll do. I don't give a fuck about the fake realism that a lot of settings go for, so I have no issue doing that.

IMNSHO If there's a place for "Rule of Cool" it's exactly when building the world/setting/game.

I've never cared for "realism" I care about internal consistency tho, which isn't the same thing.

I find lore to be more of a detriment and distraction than anything else. Fandoms built it into a fucking religion, which I despise. So I leave the lore of my settings vague so that I can do whatever I think feels fun for the current adventure.

It's going to vary by setting. If I'm doing a conspiracy techno-thriller where you're an agent of an Institute secretly funded by rebel Grays or a reincarnating elementalist wizard seeking Nirvana, then yes I'll probably include writeups of various conspiracies like the Bavarian Illuminati, Rosicrucians, Freemasons, Assassins, Templars and World Economic Forum New World Order that get in your way.

But if I just want to tell interesting stories without worrying about an interconnected setting, then I'm satisfied with just writing scenarios without worrying about that. I can insert a gothic castle onto the outskirts of a modern city where Countess Bathory holds murderous orgies to evoke an alien deity, or a cult of death worshipers headquartered in a labyrinth of tunnels under the local cemetery with the Necronomicon sitting on an altar, etc.

So you despise lore...

Lets say you're running a sci-fi game, your original "vague" setting and pitch was that it's a Space Opera.

Then, somewhere down the line would you just insert Cuthulhu and unleash it on your players as in a cosmic horror game?

That's what I mean by internal consistency.

Another example, you have established that Dragons are just beasts, no more intelligent than any other animal, would you then unleash smart dragons upon the game world/players?

In the Kingdom of whatever Necromancy is illegal, so a player learns some necromantic spells and uses them while in the kingdom... What is the "police" going to do about it? Again, that's consistency.

Why couldn't big scary alien gods, many of whom literally live in space, and space ships exist in the same setting? Genre labels were a mistake.

The discovery of a sapient example of a species thought to be exclusively non sapient could be the start of an excellent mystery and a source of conflict in the game.

You play/run whatever way you want, it's your choice.

Now, if you're the GM and you pitch to me a Space Opera game and then during the campaign you turn it into Cthulhu in Spaaaaace I'm bouncing.

Because I agreed to play a Space Opera not Cosmic Horror.

If YOU as the GM established certain things as the nature of your game world and then you turn around and say fuck it I'm changing this part it means I can't trust you with the rest.

You have the right to think that genres are a mistake, if your players like the way you run your games more power to you and them.

The genre is shorthand for what is true in the game world, so if it's an Arthurian campaign the following assumptions are made:

There's no firearms, cars, airplanes, mindflayers...

You're free to introduce whatever AFTER your players agreed to play the Arthurian campaign, they have the rioght to leave your campaign because that's not what they agreed to play.

Now, on the other hand, if your pitch is for a Gonzo campaign, then all bets are off.

Like I said you play as you want, you're wrong in your claim that genres are a mistake and that everything should be present in ANY game world but if you and your players like it then have fun playing the ONLY genre you know: Gonzo.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 20, 2023, 03:46:00 PM
IMNSHO If there's a place for "Rule of Cool" it's exactly when building the world/setting/game.

I've never cared for "realism" I care about internal consistency tho, which isn't the same thing.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 21, 2023, 02:04:30 PM
Lets say you're running a sci-fi game, your original "vague" setting and pitch was that it's a Space Opera.

Then, somewhere down the line would you just insert Cuthulhu and unleash it on your players as in a cosmic horror game?

That's what I mean by internal consistency.

Another example, you have established that Dragons are just beasts, no more intelligent than any other animal, would you then unleash smart dragons upon the game world/players?

In the Kingdom of whatever Necromancy is illegal, so a player learns some necromantic spells and uses them while in the kingdom... What is the "police" going to do about it? Again, that's consistency.

GeekyBugle, I'm not clear what your line is here. In SHARK's original post, he talked about adding in nazis with tanks, flame-throwers, etc. into a fantasy game with castles and wizards and vampires. It seems to me that is potentially just as potentially inconsistent as your examples, unless it was agreed in the beginning of the campaign that the fantasy world had real-world crossovers.

I expect that in your luchadores game, the players will clearly understand from the get-go that it will have gonzo material.

In the early days, there were some surprise modules that introduced gonzo elements - I think of "Expedition to Barrier Peaks" that crosses over to sci-fi, or "The Immortal Storm" that crosses over to real-world New York and Chicago, or "Dungeonland" that crosses into Alice in Wonderland.

Personally, I have greatly enjoyed some gonzo surprises within one-shot adventures. I might run those modules as that - or have gonzo stuff in games like Paranoia, Gamma World, Hellcats & Hockeysticks, and Macho Women With Guns. However, I wouldn't introduce gonzo surprises into a long-term campaign unless it was planned to have those sort of elements.

Quote from: jhkim on September 22, 2023, 02:32:40 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 20, 2023, 03:46:00 PM
IMNSHO If there's a place for "Rule of Cool" it's exactly when building the world/setting/game.

I've never cared for "realism" I care about internal consistency tho, which isn't the same thing.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 21, 2023, 02:04:30 PM
Lets say you're running a sci-fi game, your original "vague" setting and pitch was that it's a Space Opera.

Then, somewhere down the line would you just insert Cuthulhu and unleash it on your players as in a cosmic horror game?

That's what I mean by internal consistency.

Another example, you have established that Dragons are just beasts, no more intelligent than any other animal, would you then unleash smart dragons upon the game world/players?

In the Kingdom of whatever Necromancy is illegal, so a player learns some necromantic spells and uses them while in the kingdom... What is the "police" going to do about it? Again, that's consistency.

GeekyBugle, I'm not clear what your line is here. In SHARK's original post, he talked about adding in nazis with tanks, flame-throwers, etc. into a fantasy game with castles and wizards and vampires. It seems to me that is potentially just as potentially inconsistent as your examples, unless it was agreed in the beginning of the campaign that the fantasy world had real-world crossovers.

I expect that in your luchadores game, the players will clearly understand from the get-go that it will have gonzo material.

In the early days, there were some surprise modules that introduced gonzo elements - I think of "Expedition to Barrier Peaks" that crosses over to sci-fi, or "The Immortal Storm" that crosses over to real-world New York and Chicago, or "Dungeonland" that crosses into Alice in Wonderland.

Personally, I have greatly enjoyed some gonzo surprises within one-shot adventures. I might run those modules as that - or have gonzo stuff in games like Paranoia, Gamma World, Hellcats & Hockeysticks, and Macho Women With Guns. However, I wouldn't introduce gonzo surprises into a long-term campaign unless it was planned to have those sort of elements.

Maybe if you read the posts I'm answering to it would be clear what my line is?

If it's fun, you're doing it right. 

That's all there really needs to be said for TTRPG plots. 

Going crazy and having a plot line go in MASSIVELY different directions is one way to play.  See the above rule. 

Not everyone likes playing that way.  I'm saying it's probably fun as a side quest to get weird, but sooner or later people will want genres to remain trope filled/vanilla and hold that tone, just with unique twists in the story instead of outrageously out of place. 

I mean, you can only go dimension hopping once to save a princess from intergalactic warlord, who you kill with food after finding out he has a peanut allergy.  Then it's back to swords, skeletons, and entitled nobles trying to get one over on each other using your party as professional fetch quester.

Quote from: Domina on September 21, 2023, 11:00:04 PM
Why couldn't big scary alien gods, many of whom literally live in space, and space ships exist in the same setting? Genre labels were a mistake.

The discovery of a sapient example of a species thought to be exclusively non sapient could be the start of an excellent mystery and a source of conflict in the game.

I agree.  Cthulhu fits anywhere.  In sci fi he is from an advanced race, in fantasy and modern, he is an eldritch horror. 

Personaly I like a side of calamari with just about any meal. But you are free to say no to whatever you don't like.

Quote from: SHARK on September 18, 2023, 01:29:35 PM

I have noticed that you don't really see anything like this within the larger gaming hobby anymore--but back in the day, such dynamic elements were everywhere. Mixing Gonzo weirdness, ancient history, science fiction, dinosaurs, lasers, flying sharks--it was crazy!

The tapestry of a lot of the hobby nowadays seems pretty candy-happy and "safe" by comparison.

What would be an example of a static element?
How many campaigns that you didn't run or play in have you spectated?
Which campaigns, specifically, didn't include anything dangerous to the players?

Re : Bugle: So there should never be anything surprising in a game?

Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:55:59 AM
Re : Bugle: So there should never be anything surprising in a game?

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what I'm saying. 

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 26, 2023, 02:27:03 PM

Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:55:59 AM
Re : Bugle: So there should never be anything surprising in a game?

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what I'm saying. 

It is the logical conclusion of what you said, yeah.  If you'd like to try communicating clearly instead of being a passive aggressive snarky cunt, by all means, feel free to start any time.

Quote from: Domina on October 04, 2023, 07:11:31 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 26, 2023, 02:27:03 PM

Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:55:59 AM
Re : Bugle: So there should never be anything surprising in a game?

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what I'm saying. 

It is the logical conclusion of what you said, yeah.  If you'd like to try communicating clearly instead of being a passive aggressive snarky cunt, by all means, feel free to start any time.

The irony is palpable...

Quote from: SHARK on September 18, 2023, 01:29:35 PM
Greetings!

In my campaign, the Player Characters had the experience of infiltrating a group of several ancient castles, set within a remote, harsh region. The castles were ruled by sexy Vampires and Evil Wizards. They had huge laboratories, all kinds of dungeons and torture chambers, and were creating mixed animal/Human crossbreeds, and experimenting with all kinds of dark sorcery. Part of their experiments resulted in creation and opening magical gates which led to alien worlds, and alien times.

It was some of these efforts that resulted in the evil Vampire Queen allying herself with a regiment of the 1st SS "Leibestandarte" Panzer Division. The evil Nazi Panzer Regiment had warped through during an arcane storm, and had to become accustomed to their new environment. The Vampire Queen turned the most of the higher officers of the Leibestandarte Regiment into vampires, totally loyal to her.

Then, of course, there was the Tiger tanks, the Jagtigers, the 88-mm Flak Artillery, the Nebelwerfer mobile Rocket Launchers, the flame-throwers, machine guns, grenades, Panzerfausts, armoured half-tracks, radio communications, powerful Field Artillery, specially trained and equipped Engineers, and several units of experimentally-augmented Ubermenschen--augmented super-soldiers.

The player characters went crazy fighting the vampires and the Nazis. It was fantastic, and great fun! I had originally been inspired by the art, imagery, and stories presented by "Weird War" Comics, from when I was a kid. Mixing Nazis with evil, diabolical science, dark folklore and mythology, and elements of horror, was a huge plate for the party to deal with. It pushed them to strive to achieve victory in glorious fashion!

Have you embraced some weird, Gonzo warfare elements like this in your campaigns?

I have noticed that you don't really see anything like this within the larger gaming hobby anymore--but back in the day, such dynamic elements were everywhere. Mixing Gonzo weirdness, ancient history, science fiction, dinosaurs, lasers, flying sharks--it was crazy!

The tapestry of a lot of the hobby nowadays seems pretty candy-happy and "safe" by comparison.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Dark Castles Full of Sexy Vampires, should be the name of an OSR RPG.

Quote from: SHARK on September 18, 2023, 01:29:35 PM
Mixing Nazis with evil, diabolical science, dark folklore and mythology, and elements of horror, was a huge plate for the party to deal with. It pushed them to strive to achieve victory in glorious fashion!

Have you embraced some weird, Gonzo warfare elements like this in your campaigns?

If you haven't checked out Gygax's original mashup, "Sturmgeschutz and Sorcery"   in       The Strategic Review#5, you should (it was also included in Best of The Dragon #1; and this event also gets run at GaryCon some years, too).

Putting anachronistic and out-of-genre elements into games fits nicely with D&D's smorgasbord implied setting (as well as in Greyhawk, Blackmoor, and Tekumel, before settings became more-rigidly defined). 

If your players like that anti-Nazi two-fisted action, you may also want to check out Delta Green, which leveraged them to maximum effect as part of the modern Mythos foes.

Allan.

Quote from: ForgottenF on September 20, 2023, 09:25:39 PMLikewise, I love the idea of a Moorcockian, dimension-hopping cosmic science fantasy campaign, but I'm coming more and more to the belief that tabletop roleplaying is just not the medium for it.

Would love some more thoughts on this, since I've been injecting more Moorcockian and planar stuff into my current Greyhawk campaign, with some success.

What other mediums, mechanics, or or other mechanisms (settings?) do you think would fit this mode of play better?

Allan.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 04, 2023, 10:18:39 PM

Quote from: Domina on October 04, 2023, 07:11:31 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 26, 2023, 02:27:03 PM

Quote from: Domina on September 26, 2023, 11:55:59 AM
Re : Bugle: So there should never be anything surprising in a game?

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what I'm saying. 

It is the logical conclusion of what you said, yeah.  If you'd like to try communicating clearly instead of being a passive aggressive snarky cunt, by all means, feel free to start any time.

The irony is palpable...

Not ironic in the slightest, and everything I said is correct.