Quote from: tenbones on September 09, 2023, 04:58:39 PM
<snip>
in regards to this entire premise of "Player consent" vs. "the TPK issue" - the answer for me is the same: I'm an adult. I run TTRPG's for adults 99.999% of the time. I have no problem finding new players, I don't pick up rando's on the street/internet and just slot them in. I interview them, usually over lunch or dinner, and we get a sniff-test. They'll know what I'm about and vice versa. So yeah I don't have *any* of these problems because I put in the work to keep my hobby clean of shit I don't need or like at my table.
<snip>

And reading this thread, it sounds like you are one of the very few that does that much work before letting players join.

Quote from: tenbones on September 09, 2023, 04:58:39 PMWell... there is another response: don't buy adventure modules. I don't. (edit: caveat, I will buy adventures if there is something worthwhile in them, but that's pretty rare.)

Pretty much the same. I used to like to buy Shadowrun adventures - they were generally pretty well written, and were a good source of world building and such. And I do have a weakness for the "one page adventure" things where it's just a little micro dungeon or something you can slot in wherever you need some filler. But by and large, I don't buy adventures.

But realistically a lot of people do.

Quote from: tenbones on September 09, 2023, 04:58:39 PMin regards to this entire premise of "Player consent" vs. "the TPK issue" - the answer for me is the same: I'm an adult. I run TTRPG's for adults 99.999% of the time. I have no problem finding new players, I don't pick up rando's on the street/internet and just slot them in. I interview them, usually over lunch or dinner, and we get a sniff-test. They'll know what I'm about and vice versa. So yeah I don't have *any* of these problems because I put in the work to keep my hobby clean of shit I don't need or like at my table.

I find it laughable that people (not necessarily you) *pay* money for product like this, to justify even dumber ideas about "how to GM" that caters to the dumb ideas that you payed for that services no one worth gaming with.

For me I think that the whole "I'm an adult, I run games for adults" thing cuts both ways to some extent. I'm not interested in wasting people's time. That's why I avoid setting up situations where a TPK is expected to have a high likelihood of occurring. I trust my players not to try to kill the unkillable dragon, because I don't assume my players are morons, but in turn they trust me not to drop the unkillable dragon on top of them and say "sink or swim, suckers".

As the GM I have infinite power. It literally takes no effort to kill my PCs. Sometimes it does take a modicum of skill and restraint not to, though.

Whoever thought this idea up should be fired for being afraid to hurt the player's feelings.

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 09, 2023, 03:57:51 PM

Quote from: PulpHerb on September 09, 2023, 03:21:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 09, 2023, 02:55:33 AM

QuoteIn the latest D&D 5E adventure module, there is box text requiring the DM to get player consent before the character turns into a mind flayer after getting infected from poor choices the player made. Are there no consequences to poor actions in D&D anymore?

https://twitter.com/KraftyMattKraft/status/1700361641169412207

They sat down at my table knowing the game and the adventure type.

That's consent.

And if that were the module you were thinking of running, I'd get right up and walk away because only a newb who didn't know any better or an asshole would run that module even remotely close to as written.

No one is arguing the GM can't do what they want; they're arguing it's a shit adventure that tries to use consent tools to cover up for shit design... the same sort of shit tactics I've seen people walk away from GM's over all the time.

Those who don't learn to not be shit GMs end up with either empty tables or the shittiest players no other GM wants.

I have no interest in running the adventure. I spend a good deal of time letting players know what they're getting into and double checking before going ahead with something I think should be obviously stupid.

But I am tired of SSC people having made finding S&M partners harder despite them having a small point trying to ruin RPGs as well but bringing marginally useful tools in their own context (where they are not about consent except tangentially) from the S&M scene to RPGs.

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 09, 2023, 03:57:51 PM

Quote from: PulpHerb on September 09, 2023, 03:21:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 09, 2023, 02:55:33 AM

QuoteIn the latest D&D 5E adventure module, there is box text requiring the DM to get player consent before the character turns into a mind flayer after getting infected from poor choices the player made. Are there no consequences to poor actions in D&D anymore?

https://twitter.com/KraftyMattKraft/status/1700361641169412207

They sat down at my table knowing the game and the adventure type.

That's consent.

And if that were the module you were thinking of running, I'd get right up and walk away because only a newb who didn't know any better or an asshole would run that module even remotely close to as written.

No one is arguing the GM can't do what they want; they're arguing it's a shit adventure that tries to use consent tools to cover up for shit design... the same sort of shit tactics I've seen people walk away from GM's over all the time.

Those who don't learn to not be shit GMs end up with either empty tables or the shittiest players no other GM wants.

Also, if you don't find what I'm running to your taste I'm happy to shake your hand and, if I have any ideas, help you find a game more to your taste.

This consent shit in general is an attempt to force GMs to run for players who don't match their table. Instead of giving players a way to stop shit GMs tell them to stand up and find a new table.

As for this being a shit adventure...it's from WotC. If someone offers to run a modern WotC adventure I'm walking away before I ever learn about something like this mindflyer transformation.

I don't really know where to start.

I don't know anything about the module. But the gist of the thread appears to me? " WOTC says you have to get a player's permission to change his character into something else."

Once my astonishment subsides enough for me to respond I reply, "lycanthropy, vampirism, girdle of femininity (probably no longer an issue), item of opposite alignment, various curses and shape changes, level drain, poison, turn to stone, disintegrate and oh yeah and hit points. If you play, things will happen to your character. Sometimes just because of an unlucky die roll. It's part of the game."

Quote from: Tod13 on September 09, 2023, 05:07:17 PM

Quote from: tenbones on September 09, 2023, 04:58:39 PM
<snip>
in regards to this entire premise of "Player consent" vs. "the TPK issue" - the answer for me is the same: I'm an adult. I run TTRPG's for adults 99.999% of the time. I have no problem finding new players, I don't pick up rando's on the street/internet and just slot them in. I interview them, usually over lunch or dinner, and we get a sniff-test. They'll know what I'm about and vice versa. So yeah I don't have *any* of these problems because I put in the work to keep my hobby clean of shit I don't need or like at my table.
<snip>

And reading this thread, it sounds like you are one of the very few that does that much work before letting players join.

Probably true. But I say it all the time: I like Good. I don't care in what form it comes from - I want it to be Good. And when it comes to my TTRPGs (or anything else I engage with) I do my part to make it good.

Which is why I don't complain a lot about the problems others do. But I feel everyone's annoyance, I feel this "extra work" is merely the ounce of prevention that prevents the metric shit-tons of pain.

Quote from: Baron on September 10, 2023, 12:00:51 AM

Once my astonishment subsides enough for me to respond I reply, "lycanthropy, vampirism, girdle of femininity (probably no longer an issue)

Quote from: Baron on September 10, 2023, 12:00:51 AM
Once my astonishment subsides enough for me to respond I reply, "lycanthropy, vampirism, girdle of femininity (probably no longer an issue), item of opposite alignment, various curses and shape changes, level drain, poison, turn to stone, disintegrate and oh yeah and hit points. If you play, things will happen to your character. Sometimes just because of an unlucky die roll. It's part of the game."

Lycanthropy has two different ways to avoid contracting it even if you do get infected. Vampirism requires you actually die to begin with, so it's a moot point. Cursed items require you actually put a magic item on blindly. All the rest of the things you mentioned have in game mechanics to prevent them - saving throws, armor class, etc.

None of them are comparable to the situation presented in this shitty adventure.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 10, 2023, 08:58:05 AM

Quote from: Baron on September 10, 2023, 12:00:51 AM
Once my astonishment subsides enough for me to respond I reply, "lycanthropy, vampirism, girdle of femininity (probably no longer an issue), item of opposite alignment, various curses and shape changes, level drain, poison, turn to stone, disintegrate and oh yeah and hit points. If you play, things will happen to your character. Sometimes just because of an unlucky die roll. It's part of the game."

Lycanthropy has two different ways to avoid contracting it even if you do get infected. Vampirism requires you actually die to begin with, so it's a moot point.

No it isn't idiot.  They all change the PC without its consent.  Go see wizard about that brain.

Quote from: Scooter on September 10, 2023, 09:07:00 AM
No it isn't idiot.  They all change the PC without its consent.  Go see wizard about that brain.

I'm sorry you're too wrapped up in your whole "anti-social asshole" persona to realize that, in fact, having game mechanics that can be engaged with in different ways or avoided entirely is different from "rocks fall, everyone dies" GMing, but here we are.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 10, 2023, 09:10:06 AM
I'm sorry you're too wrapped up in your whole "anti-social asshole" persona to realize that, in fact, having game mechanics that can be engaged with in different ways or avoided entirely is different from "rocks fall, everyone dies" GMing, but here we are.

Well, even rocks falling allows a saving throw. The only thing that doesn't is falling into lava.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on September 10, 2023, 09:36:36 AM
Well, even rocks falling allows a saving throw. The only thing that doesn't is falling into lava.

"Rocks fall, everyone dies" implies no saving throw. It's shorthand for DM fiat to do a shortcut around mechanics to force a TPK.

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 10, 2023, 09:10:06 AM

Quote from: Scooter on September 10, 2023, 09:07:00 AM
No it isn't idiot.  They all change the PC without its consent.  Go see wizard about that brain.

I'm sorry you're too wrapped up in your whole "anti-social asshole" persona to realize that, in fact, having game mechanics that can be engaged with in different ways or avoided entirely is different from "rocks fall, everyone dies" GMing, but here we are.

Arguing with Scooter is like playing chess with a pigeon. All he does is topple all the pieces and shit on the board, then strut around victoriously like he won. 

Quote from: Bruwulf on September 10, 2023, 08:58:05 AM

Quote from: Baron on September 10, 2023, 12:00:51 AM
Once my astonishment subsides enough for me to respond I reply, "lycanthropy, vampirism, girdle of femininity (probably no longer an issue), item of opposite alignment, various curses and shape changes, level drain, poison, turn to stone, disintegrate and oh yeah and hit points. If you play, things will happen to your character. Sometimes just because of an unlucky die roll. It's part of the game."

Lycanthropy has two different ways to avoid contracting it even if you do get infected. Vampirism requires you actually die to begin with, so it's a moot point. Cursed items require you actually put a magic item on blindly. All the rest of the things you mentioned have in game mechanics to prevent them - saving throws, armor class, etc.

None of them are comparable to the situation presented in this shitty adventure.

The player choose to fuck around, meaning if your character goes fucking around to/with mindflayers... Whatever happens is by YOUR choice.