QuoteSo now you're objecting to the way how he describes his experiences ?

Now? That´s what I´m talking about all of the time!

Quote from: SettembriniNow? That´s what I´m talking about all of the time!

This is not really true, is it Sett.

Regards,
David R

Tony's not cool enough for Settembrini!

QuoteTony's not cool enough for Settembrini!

That sums it up in a colloquial way. I´d prefer to say his communication- aesthetics are counterproductive to the intent of his utterance.

You would, you jolly swine!

If I were the Pundit, I'd be hammering on the Brain Damage point, because Tony's defence of it is really, really weak.

Specifically:

- Tony just throws his hands in the air and says "Well, it's true that Ron can sometimes be cranky, but that's not his defining feature". The fallacy here is that he assumes that all Swine have "is a Swine" as their defining feature, which isn't necessarily the case (and indeed, if you accept Pundit's definition of what a Swine is in the thread, isn't the case at all). It's like saying "Well, John Smith certainly makes disparaging remarks about black people all the time, but that's not his defining feature, so he can't be a racist".

- The original Brain Damage thread on the Forge involves a sickening display of sycophancy which really backs up Pundit's argument. People come out of the woodwork to essentially agree with what Uncle Ron says and pump their fist in the air and go "right on". And, yes, some people do criticise him, but shockingly they seem to be the minority. It got so bad that Clinton Pseudonym Nixon took a holiday from the Forge because he was so disgusted with what was happening there. True, one man and his sycophants do not a conspiracy make, but if the Pundit were to define Swinery as subscribing to a kind of groupthink rather than participating in a conspiracy, he's got a golden example right there.

Why hasn't the Pundit linked to any Swine-ish comments Tony has made..if he's made any that is...

Regards,
David R

If it were real pistols at dawn then one of them would now be silent, and we could be be grateful for that. Alas, it is not; instead it's a very sloppy debate. If they want to debate rather than duel, then they need a moderator who can sort them out, rule posts out of order, and so on. Of course, then we'd find that neither of them would get beyond their first rebuttal. Which perhaps wouldn't be a bad thing...

Quote from: JimBobOzIf it were real pistols at dawn then one of them would now be silent, and we could be be grateful for that. Alas, it is not; instead it's a very sloppy debate. If they want to debate rather than duel, then they need a moderator who can sort them out, rule posts out of order, and so on. Of course, then we'd find that neither of them would get beyond their first rebuttal. Which perhaps wouldn't be a bad thing...

It wouldn't get that far; they'd get so bogged down arguing over who the moderator would be they wouldn't get around to the debate itself.

Again, that would perhaps not be a bad thing.

It's just embarassing, really. I mean, it's not like any of us are that brilliant at discussion and debate, overall. But usually in big argumnetative threads our individual stupidity and sloppy argument is hidden amongst everyone else's, and the occasional bit of incisive thought really shines through. But when it's just two doofuses slapping it out like that, there's nothing to hide the banality of their drivel. They're all exposed.

It's just RPGPundit and TonyLB, scratching, biting with their milk teeth, and pulling each-other's pigtails.

It's embarassing and horrible to watch, but you can't stop yourself. It's like that scene in Borat where he's naked and wrestling his naked manager. Can't they just, for the love of humanity, stop?

Yeah, it definitely feels like neither of them is taking a moment to reread what they've just typed and check it for holes or absurdities before pressing submit.

Quote from: RPGPunditRon Edwards attacks mainstream gaming.
(ergo, Ron Edwards is a Swine)
Ron Edwards is the principle architect of the Forge
People who frequent the Forge and support Ron and his theories are also implicitly supporting his attacks on mainstream gaming.
(their motives for doing so are somewhat irrelevant, but my personal observation is that they do this to feel like they're part of a special "intellectual elite")
Thus, people who frequent the Forge and support Ron Edwards are participating by their collaboration with the attack on mainstream gaming, and are also Swine.

I have to say, this has come too close to convincing me to leave this site. By this logic, we all support everything Pundit supports. We are his collaborators. If he is going to claim this down the line, I want no part of it.

I thought I was chatting with a bunch of gamers, not supporting a political doctrine.

Bill

The Forge has stronger moderation than theRPGsite if memory serves. They delete posts that are too cantankerous or that go against established theory positions.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineThe Forge has stronger moderation than theRPGsite if memory serves.

Very, very, very true.  But not using board tools.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineThey delete posts that are too cantankerous or that go against established theory positions.

Not that I have ever seen.  "Thread ownership" and social censure are the standard means.

Quote from: HinterWeltI have to say, this has come too close to convincing me to leave this site. By this logic, we all support everything Pundit supports. We are his collaborators. If he is going to claim this down the line, I want no part of it.

I thought I was chatting with a bunch of gamers, not supporting a political doctrine.

Bill

Don't go off half-cocked now, Bill. It would suck to lose level headed small-press.

I thought it was interesting to note the subtle difference in Tony's response.

As you note, Pundit references people who frequent the Forge and support Ron Edwards.  Tony tries to counter with likening that to frequenting and supporting The RPGSite.  That's not a valid comparison.  To be so, you would have to frequent the RPGSite and support Pundit.

And, honestly, I don't think anyone here supports Pundit to the degree that, in my limited experience, I saw people support Ron Edwards.  In fact, many of us (like you) have very strong...differences...with Pundit.

And, as Pseudo mentions, the moderation makes all the difference in the world.  To the point that I doubt people from the outside assume we all support Pundit.  Some may claim it for various reasons, but I don't think it's assumed.