Quote from: James J SkachWhat? Dammit David, what?

They have similar playstyles and play/like the same games as him.

Edit: It's also the delivery...he really does break the coolometer .

Regards,
David R

Quote from: James J SkachIt's not that his references are "common" or "everyman."

But they are. Or more precisely, they're everygeek.

Quote from: James J SkachOh no...I would never think of Doc! as an everyman anything - he's as unique as they come.

I'm just saying, why do people tend not to have a problem with Doc? Why don't people consider him pretentious for his references to influences? It's not that his references are "common" or "everyman." But must they not be different in some way that IMHO most here don't think of him as pretentious? Is it the delivery? What? Dammit David, what?

It's not pretentious when it's genius?

Quote from: droogBut they are. Or more precisely, they're everygeek.

Yeah.

Also I think that with Tony there's always the sense that there's an agenda behind his enthusiasm. Why nobody thinks the same of the Pundit escapes me...oh wait, it's an agenda which is acceptable...although I do concede that my reading could be wrong with this.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RAlso I think that with Tony there's always the sense that there's an agenda behind his enthusiasm. Why nobody thinks the same of the Pundit escapes me...oh wait, it's an agenda which is acceptable...although I do concede that my reading could be wrong with this.

With TonyLB's references to influences vs Doc Rotwang's, I think it's more that TonyLB comes across as extremely self-conscious. I mean that in both the slightly negative, "I'm embarassed to be doing this, and approaching it cautiously," sense, and the "I reflect on it a lot" sense. Whereas Rotwang seems pretty unselfconscious.

I've said before that Geeksign - like wormsign but for geeks - is speaking enthusiastically about something for just a tad longer than the listener wants to hear. That sort of enthusiasm is appealing - at least to another geek. Whereas someone being self-conscious makes you feel self-conscious, too. If you gamed with Rotwang you feel that you'd get caught up in his enthusiasm. If you gamed with TonyLB you feel you'd be part of an experiment with analysis discussion afterwards.

Geekiness is like sex - enthusiasm is more important than technique. I dunno about their sex lives, and don't want to know, but in their geekiness, Rotwang's got the enthusiasm, and TonyLB seems to focus on the technique.

Quote from: JimBobOzWith TonyLB's references to influences vs Doc Rotwang's, I think it's more that TonyLB comes across as extremely self-conscious. I mean that in both the slightly negative, "I'm embarassed to be doing this, and approaching it cautiously," sense, and the "I reflect on it a lot" sense. Whereas Rotwang seems pretty unselfconscious.

I don't get that with Tony. My impression is that looking "behind the scenes" of games is part of what makes gaming cool to him. I don't really get the self conscious vibe from him. I do think that most folks - gamers - don't really care what's behind the scenes but just want to enjoy the show .

Regards,
David R

Ultimately Pundit is the better Rhetor, but he only skillfully circumvents the real thing:

That swine is at heart an aesthetic and political category. It´s like the term "bleeding heart liberals", a fighting word.

Sad though, that Tony is sort of trying to prove that the hearts of liberals aren´t really bleeding. It´s a pretty stupid thing Tony is trying, and I´m thankful for the entertaining rhetoric the Pundit pulls off.

Again I get the feeling that there´s too many politically untrained minds in RPG discussion land.

Coming to a political discussion with sophomoric "yes/no" razor-questions...

QuoteIts not about that, its about you spending time talking about it online (and possibly, in real life) and you and others getting off on talking about things like Film Theory or Chaos Theory or Marxist Political Science or whatever the fuck is the flavour of the month

Like ancient Roman history?

Would this be a good moment to bring up that I almost became a Romanist? Best thing I ever wrote was on the Canopus at the Villa of Hadrian (sadly unpublished, wait for my Collected Writings, vol.XLI, due out 2237). In spite of their boring emperors, those Romans knew some shit.

You fucking Swine.

There's Swine infestation here. Something needs to be done.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RThere's Swine infestation here. Something needs to be done.

Regards,
David R

Crap. I'd better get my former-Marxist, history reading, German film watching, politics spouting, small press games designing ass out of here! I feel there's gonna be a hangin'!

Actually, reading the current thread (the Tony vs RPG-P one), I'm amazed at the extreme position regarding talking about films in the context of RPGs. I've always loved movies (the first film I remember watching as a kid was a re-run of 'The Thing From Another World' on BBC2!) and find that they can bring a lot to the table (if you'll pardon the pun) when it comes to RPGs. Whether it's "Oh, this film had a really cool bit in it, I want my character to do that!" or "How can I use my reading of this book about film making to improve my games?", we can learn a lot from cinema. Cripes, I don't remember how many time I ran a barely concealed 'Aliens' ripoff with Traveller or 2300AD (a lot of times, I would think). Also, I think that stuff like (warning: mention of 'worthy' textbook coming up!) 'How to Read A Film' by James Monaco can actually be useful in what it tells us about setting scenes, stories and so forth. Not for eveyone, mind you. So might not get value from it, others might. It's just a difference in what you value and what you want.

Well, that's my little thought-shower on one bit that struck me.

Cheers
Malcolm

Quote from: Malcolm CraigCrap. I'd better get my former-Marxist, history reading, German film watching, politics spouting, small press games designing ass out of here! I feel there's gonna be a hangin'!

History reading and German film watching, you say...

QuoteActually, reading the current thread (the Tony vs RPG-P one), I'm amazed at the extreme position regarding talking about films in the context of RPGs.

I think it's more about what films you reference. You mention certain films you're pretentious. You mention films that are acceptable, you're a geek king. That's what the Pundit is all about. What he dislikes. Swine = Things I hate. I mean if it was really about gamers who look down on other gamers, he would be the Swine King.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI think it's more about what films you reference. You mention certain films you're pretentious. You mention films that are acceptable, you're a geek king. That's what the Pundit is all about. What he dislikes. Swine = Things I hate. I mean if it was really about gamers who look down on other gamers, he would be the Swine King.

Erk, better not mention 'Last Year In Marienbad'*, then!

Cheers
Malcolm

*Actually a really interesting film.

Quote from: David RThere's Swine infestation here. Something needs to be done.

"I just don't dig on swine, is all."