Let's say you were going to start a pirate campaign next week for a handful if friends and acquaintances and you had the following options for the RPG used and you dislike "cinematic" action:

(1) Flashing Blades + High Seas supplement
(2) Privateers and Gentlemen
(3) Pirates of the Spanish Man
(4) GURPS + Swashbucklers supplement
(5) Pirates and Plunder

Which would you choose and why? What are the good points and bad points you've experienced with these games? Any rules quirks to watch out for (aside from Pirates and Plunder lacking rules for sailing and ships, which you could probably work around with a couple of randomized weather and encounter charts)? Does one stand mast and mainsail above the rest?

Bonus points if you can suggest any good sea shanty compilations to set the mood.

Privateers and Gentlemen: Good historical background and fairly easy rules. Its mainly like most any RPG in that the combat system can take some getting used to.

Personal picks for a pirates I've had more experience with are.
Furry Pirates: Was a playtester for this and if you drop the magic system and the Disney animal folk parts its a pretty good game and provides alot of background on the whole world of that era with emphasis on the major seagoing powers of the time, and touching on everything from the New World to Australia. Lots of examples of the personalities and notables as well.

Lace & Steel: This ones designed for swashbuckling and is alot of fun once you get used to the system. Its set in its own fantasy setting though rather than real world history like Furry Pirates.

Privateers and Gentlemen for me too. Straight up historical with good detailed sailing rules.
I'd probably pull in some ideas from GURPS Swashbucklers as well.

I'd go with Pirates of the Spanish Man. You can't go far wrong with Savage Worlds. There's also a limit to how right you can go with it, but if I had been roped into running "a pirate game" without any other specifications, I'd aim for reliability over excellence. SW combat is a lot of fun, and everything else is at least functional - you get the minimum of everything you need in terms of running adventures on the high seas, and none of it is too complicated to learn in a hurry.

You might have to specify what you mean with "cinematic action," though?

I'm with Baeraad, it's never steered me wrong.

Quote from: Baeraad;959333I'd go with Pirates of the Spanish Man. You can't go far wrong with Savage Worlds. There's also a limit to how right you can go with it, but if I had been roped into running "a pirate game" without any other specifications, I'd aim for reliability over excellence. SW combat is a lot of fun, and everything else is at least functional - you get the minimum of everything you need in terms of running adventures on the high seas, and none of it is too complicated to learn in a hurry.

You might have to specify what you mean with "cinematic action," though?

I mean in the sense it is thrown around in RPGs these days, i.e., PCs wade through "mooks," PCs dodge bullets, over-the-top stuff like action movies have now where everyone is in invisible strings and performing ridiculous maneuvers.

With Pirates of the Spanish Main, I'd throw out the "bennies" as I find nothing destroys immersion faster than those types of metagame mechanics where you think as a player rather than your character.

I guess I'd choose Gurps + Swashbucklers supplement. If only because I've actually played Gurps and haven't played any of the other games you've listed. I'd know what to expect from Gurps; could boil down the system to what I'd feel comfortable using, and ignore what would be overwhelming. It wouldn't be a perfect selection, and it might not be what a true Gurps fan would consider a Gurps-experience, but it's what I'd manage.

But, in all honesty, if I was really running a Pirate game in a week I'd pick an option besides what you've listed. Something a lot more familiar to me. But, judging by how you've phrased the original post I'd doubt you'd have an interest in what that is.

Quote from: Dumarest;959290(1) Flashing Blades + High Seas supplement
(2) Privateers and Gentlemen
(3) Pirates of the Spanish Man
(4) GURPS + Swashbucklers supplement
(5) Pirates and Plunder

Which would you choose and why?

Of this list, I would choose (1) simply by virtue of already owning it and being super-familiar with the game. Truth be told, I find High Seas kinda awkward but reasonably serviceable.

For 'golden age of piracy' action, it would be hard to go wrong with (2), particularly if you want to stage bad-ass minis battles.

(3) is Savage Worlds - if you like SW, then PotSM is a very good iteration of the core, If not, well, it will always be SW, with all that entails.

The other two I can't say anything about.

Quote from: Dumarest;959352I mean in the sense it is thrown around in RPGs these days, i.e., PCs wade through "mooks," PCs dodgce bullets, over-the-top stuff like action movies have now where everyone is in invisible strings and performing ridiculous maneuvers.

Ah, I see. Well, low-level SW is fairly gritty - the PCs are tougher than average, but they should preferably run from overwhelming odds.

Quote from: Dumarest;959352With Pirates of the Spanish Main, I'd throw out the "bennies" as I find nothing destroys immersion faster than those types of metagame mechanics where you think as a player rather than your character.

I'd say that bennies can still serve as a representation of putting absolutely everything you've got into making something work. I actually feel like games that don't allow me to do that break my immersion a bit - if I can't make a difference by deciding to try harder, then I'm not really controlling my character, I'm just shouting orders at him from above.

You might want to disallow soaking, though. Bleeding wounds tend to be unresponsive to even the most heroic bursts of willpower.

Some time ago I was looking for a swashbuckling game, and several people here at the rpgsite pointed me towards Honor & Intrigue. First, the upside. It uses the Barbarians of Lemuria system, which handles cinematic action very well. Added to that are a list of fencing maneuvers which add some mechanical flourish to the game without adding a ton of complexity. These maneuvers can be completely ditched if it's a step too far, but I like them myself.

Honor & Intrigue has ship combat rules as well. To quote the publisher on them:

Ships have their own stats: Sails, Hull, Guns, and Crew. Each is useful for different parts of Ship to Ship combat.

Ships also have another stat called "Size" which increases how much cargo they can carry as well as how many guns they can bring to bear on a target. So a big Galleon will generally destroy a little Sloop in a ship to ship fight. Generally a bigger ship can dish out and take more damage but is slower at turning, tacking, and other feats of maneuverability.

Instead of "Lifeblood" ships have "Timber", and when the ship takes a hit, usually it loses Timber. When this happens, some of the crew may be injured or killed as well (there is a special roll for that).

Sometimes you might fire a special shot, like Chain Shot for instance, that targets the enemies Sails instead, or Grape Shot which targets the enemies Crew (because the range is so short, you might likely use this just prior to boarding).

Speaking of Boarding, the ship's First Mate makes rolls for Boarding enemy vessels using their ship's Crew rating. When defending against a Boarding Action, the ship's Captain rolls using Crew to drive them off. If the ship remains occupied by the enemy for so many turns, the crew needs to make morale checks or surrender.

In addition to stats, Ships have their own Boons and Flaws. This might mean having an extra tough hull or oarsmen to move against the wind, a cursed reputation, or various other peculiarities to make the ship unique.

Aside from the combat part, there are also rules for carrying cargo, trading, sailing through storms, dealing with low morale or supplies, navigating through reefs, etc.

Good summary. The Honor + Intruige Ship rules were one of my main sources of inspiration (along with a few other naval wargames and a few sci-fi ship systems) for my proposed Earthdawn 4E Airship rules. I would at least read them for inspiration, and retain what is useful.

While not an RPG. The old Pirates of the Spanish Main CMG game was alot of fun and makes for a good plug in for ship battles for RPGs even.



fwoosh!

Quote from: Omega;959456While not an RPG. The old Pirates of the Spanish Main CMG game was alot of fun and makes for a good plug in for ship battles for RPGs even.



fwoosh!

I have a dozen or twenty of the little ships from that game. I plan to use them in the context of the pirate roleplaying no matter what system I use. But tactical ship battles will be secondary, at least until our heads are wrapped around the ship combat rules we end up with.

Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;959378Some time ago I was looking for a swashbuckling game, and several people here at the rpgsite pointed me towards Honor & Intrigue. First, the upside. It uses the Barbarians of Lemuria system, which handles cinematic action very well. Added to that are a list of fencing maneuvers which add some mechanical flourish to the game without adding a ton of complexity. These maneuvers can be completely ditched if it's a step too far, but I like them myself.

Honor & Intrigue has ship combat rules as well. To quote the publisher on them:

Ships have their own stats: Sails, Hull, Guns, and Crew. Each is useful for different parts of Ship to Ship combat.

Ships also have another stat called "Size" which increases how much cargo they can carry as well as how many guns they can bring to bear on a target. So a big Galleon will generally destroy a little Sloop in a ship to ship fight. Generally a bigger ship can dish out and take more damage but is slower at turning, tacking, and other feats of maneuverability.

Instead of "Lifeblood" ships have "Timber", and when the ship takes a hit, usually it loses Timber. When this happens, some of the crew may be injured or killed as well (there is a special roll for that).

Sometimes you might fire a special shot, like Chain Shot for instance, that targets the enemies Sails instead, or Grape Shot which targets the enemies Crew (because the range is so short, you might likely use this just prior to boarding).

Speaking of Boarding, the ship's First Mate makes rolls for Boarding enemy vessels using their ship's Crew rating. When defending against a Boarding Action, the ship's Captain rolls using Crew to drive them off. If the ship remains occupied by the enemy for so many turns, the crew needs to make morale checks or surrender.

In addition to stats, Ships have their own Boons and Flaws. This might mean having an extra tough hull or oarsmen to move against the wind, a cursed reputation, or various other peculiarities to make the ship unique.

Aside from the combat part, there are also rules for carrying cargo, trading, sailing through storms, dealing with low morale or supplies, navigating through reefs, etc.

Interesting. Is this a pirate RPG I've never heard of? Do tell...Honor + Intrigue! By the title I would've thought "Les Liaisons Dangereuse: The RPG."

Also: what is a barbarian of Lemuria? Or what is the system like? D100 Chaosium, D&D ripoff, D6 Star Wars ripoff, etc.?

Quote from: Dumarest;959460Interesting. Is this a pirate RPG I've never heard of? Do tell...Honor + Intrigue! By the title I would've thought "Les Liaisons Dangereuse: The RPG."

Also: what is a barbarian of Lemuria? Or what is the system like? D100 Chaosium, D&D ripoff, D6 Star Wars ripoff, etc.?

Barbarians of Lemuria is a Sword and Sorcery style game in which you use up to 3D6.  The average roll is 2d6 adding relevant factors (One of four attributes or their derivatives, and maybe a career if it applies), the higher the better, against a difficulty.  Now certain situations have you add another D6 and either take the highest two, or lowest two and add the various modifiers as needed.  That's the basics, as I remember it.