I really love PHB2- I was excited to see the druids become more shapechangey and I love how the bards set up as more musical and lore oriented. Also very happy to see the Half Orc returned. Avengers, Shamans, Wardens, and the new take on the sorcerer was very cool.
What I'd still like to see are some my old favorite races and classes, especially the ones I didn't get to play that often in 3E:
RACES:
Mongrelmen (I don't care if they re-name them really, I just like the concept). I've placed groups of Mongrelmen scavengers in a lot of my adventures, and I'd love to see a playable race take on them.
Goblins I know we have the basic details, but I'm reallly hoping for some goblin-related feats and paragon paths
Spellscales (my favorite race from Races of the Dragon, maybe redone as a bit less effeminate..)
Elan - They were a major race in my last 3E campaign and I really got to liking them. I think they have an interesting history.
Dromites - I just like the way they look! Plus I am going to end up putting them into my current campaign. I think there needs to be a second genderless race besides Warforged.
Illumians - I still think these are cool. Theyre briefly mentioned in the 4E Planar book, so I think we'll see them again.
CLASSES:
I'd also like to see the return of Binders. I noticed that they recently added a new pact for Warlocks called the Vestige Pact, which effective brings back a sort of Binder, but it might be cool if they did them as their own class, with certain Vestiges tracks being options similar to Warlock pacts or the Wild/Dragon Magic sorcerer options.
I definitely want to see the new psions all broken out (from Elocator to Wilder or similar) in 4E format.
Monks.
Maybe ninja (I know monks aren't the only thing they're putting under the "ki" power source)
Ah... what other power sources were going to be in that book?
As for races... they'll probably also be themed after included power sources. If ki's a big thing they'll probably include kenku and such. If psionics is a big thing, I'm looking forward to half-giants, gith, thri-keen, duergar, and a bunch of others.
One word: Thri-Kreen. I'd like to see how they are going to handle multiple arms in a character race, and maintain game balance.
Quote from: Drohem;292293One word: Thri-Kreen. I'd like to see how they are going to handle multiple arms in a character race, and maintain game balance.
By making any attempt to use them simultaneously an encounter power.
Quote from: beejazz;292294By making any attempt to use them simultaneously an encounter power.
This could be a 'quick and dirty' way of dealing with it, but I'd like to see a system wide approach to dealing with multiple limbs on player character race that was a little more involved. Although, at first blush, this does seem like a good way of dealing with it. They can make one attack with all arms during each encounter. Some food for thought here.
It seems likely that we'll see monks, ninjas (especially since they started porting them into the complete books near the end of 3E), and maybe even samurai and shugenja.
I wouldn't mind playing a Wu-Jen, (they did an entire spell selection up for one in Complete Arcane for 3E) and I'd really like to see a dedicated illusionist class ala 1E.
I agree with beejazz that the Thri-kreen will probably get some kind of racial encounter power for its 4-arms-ness.
Quote from: Drohem;292297This could be a 'quick and dirty' way of dealing with it, but I'd like to see a system wide approach to dealing with multiple limbs on player character race that was a little more involved. Although, at first blush, this does seem like a good way of dealing with it. They can make one attack with all arms during each encounter. Some food for thought here.
Well, chances are they would get a racial encounter power, and then there would be a selection of Thri-kreen specific feats that would be similar to what a double-weapon fighter might get. I'm basing this off of what the minotaur ended up with.
I would like to see a 4e Oriental Adventures, or something similar, too.
Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292298I agree with beejazz that the Thri-kreen will probably get some kind of racial encounter power for its 4-arms-ness.
I'm surprised to see people agreeing with me on this. I meant it as a joke. I hope they don't do it that way, as it strikes me as kind of silly.
Besides which, I think the thri-keen's got more than enough fodder for racial powers already with its psionics.
Isn't two weapon fighting a strictly ranger thing now anyway? If anything they'll find a way to modify that for the thri-keen. Or write a racial paragon path, since at that point it might not be so game breaking. Or say that since one set of arms is littler than the other they can twf two handed weapons but can't wield four. Or just lose a pair of arms (they don't seem that reluctant to change the flavor of things where it suits them... and the four arms thing only got big because you could break it... the intended flavor is "psychic bug man").
There's a bunch of things they might do. I'm sure something makes more sense than an encounter power.
Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, chances are they would get a racial encounter power, and then there would be a selection of Thri-kreen specific feats that would be similar to what a double-weapon fighter might get. I'm basing this off of what the minotaur ended up with.
Wait... what did the minotaur end up with?
But yeah... feats would be cool... I don't know how balanced 4 weapon fighting would be as a feat, but it'd be a great way to implement it if they get it right.
At will martial power four attacks at -4 penalty? Each does 1w damage?
Quote from: beejazz;292302I'm surprised to see people agreeing with me on this. I meant it as a joke. I hope they don't do it that way, as it strikes me as kind of silly.
Besides which, I think the thri-keen's got more than enough fodder for racial powers already with its psionics.
Isn't two weapon fighting a strictly ranger thing now anyway? If anything they'll find a way to modify that for the thri-keen. Or write a racial paragon path, since at that point it might not be so game breaking. Or say that since one set of arms is littler than the other they can twf two handed weapons but can't wield four. Or just lose a pair of arms (they don't seem that reluctant to change the flavor of things where it suits them... and the four arms thing only got big because you could break it... the intended flavor is "psychic bug man").
1st thing: rangers aren't the only two-attack class. The "Tempest" variant of the fighter can do a dual strike as well. (Fargrim is playing one in my PBP here). Half elf dilletantes can pick up either one of the at-will dual strikes as an encounter power as well, so it isn't completely out of scope.
The minotaur gets "Goring charge" as a racial encounter power- it's a charge that ends in a knockdown. Then they get a lot of race-specific feats (for example, opportunity gore, which lets the minotaur PC use goring charge as it's opp attack). Another minotaur feat is a perception bonus that accounts for their affinity with mazes and labyrinths. That sort of thing.
Dromites are my psychic bug-man race of choice! But Thrikreens are cool too. Whatever they do, they can't let it be unbalanced compared to a half elf.
Hehehehe... honestly, boiling it down to just an encounter power would suck, IMHO. It would have to be a comination of racial power, racial feats, and paragon path that would lead to the ultimate mastery of 4-armed combat.
Dromites are cool too. :)
PHB3 = Men & Magic.
AKA. How to play D&D uber-rules-light. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Quote from: Benoist;292349PHB3 = Men & Magic.
AKA. How to play D&D uber-rules-light. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Well, can't you already do that using another set of rules?
Your'e talking about a sort of Unearthed Arcana 4E, in any case.
Of course I can. That's not the point.
Quote from: Benoist;292353Of course I can. That's not the point.
Let's face it, the rules-lite thing is out there, it's available. It's been available for years. Most people
aren't that interested in it. The people that are interested in it, certainly can accomplish this on their own.
It ought to be main stream. The "most people" you're talking about are people who already are gamers. THIS is the point.
4e suxxors and I'm going to post about how much it sucks in every single thread on this 4rum and every 4rum, 4evar!
Do we really need to drag in the "4e sucks" argument in this thread? Can't we just have one positive thread when the topic is this innocuous?
***back on topic***
For races I want to see include the exotics: Aarakocra, Centaurs, Sea Elves, Sprite, and Thri-Kreen. Mostly because they offer something new and different from the general demi-humans.
If we're going to go with "more of the same" races, then let's see some Half-Giants, Muls, and/or Vistani.
Please, no Giffs.
I'm less sure about classes. I don't really care about other power sources, and I'm kind of waiting to see what other "builds" they showcase in the other Power books. Plus, I'm more of a martial guy. So, I suppose my only two wish list items would be:
* A full-on gladiator class that optimizes using simple weapons, unarmed combat, and dirty tricks.
* A knight or cavalier type class who wears heavy armor by default and whose powers are based on mounted combat. I really think this is the biggest oversight of the game so far - a complete lack of focus on mounted combat.
But then, I suppose whole new classes for them is kind of overkill so maybe just a couple more "build / class options" would do it.
The Stormwracked races are cool:
Those would be:
Darfellan (which are the human-ish orca race)(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0805ex_Darfellan.jpg)
Aventi (sea-dwelling humans)(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dxfict_aventi.jpg)
Hadozee (sorta based off of Yazirians) also appeared as a PC race in Stormwrack. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/storm_gallery/90716.jpg)
And I think sea elves were in there too, but they were actually the least interesting.
I want a psionic / shadow focus, though I expect a psionic / ki focus.
I'd like to see illusionist (shadow controller), necromancer (shadow leader), wilder (psionic striker), soulblade (psionic defender), and psion (psionic controller) as base classes in it. I'd also like to see a shadow striker (Some sort of assassin?), a martial controller (A swashbuckler class), and a psionic leader (An empath or thrallherd, maybe). That's eight classes.
I'd like to see, racewise:
Intelligent undead
Kalashtar / Elans (provided they aren't in the Eberron PH)
Thri-kreen
Illumians
Githzerai
I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.
I would like to see Psionic, Shadow, and Ki power sources.
And the Giff.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.
It wouldn't be unprecedented. The Requiem: Grim Harvest boxed set for the 2e Ravenloft line was all about playing undead characters - as skeletons, ghosts, zombies, wraiths, wights, shadows, spectres, liches, vampires, mummies, ghouls, or ghasts.
Quote from: DeadUematsu;292438And the Giff.
Bastard :D
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.
I would love an intelligent undead race as well. We kinda had the basics of one in the 3e Necropolitans.
Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292452I would love an intelligent undead race as well. We kinda had the basics of one in the 3e Necropolitans.
but that would play right into the 4e is WoW argument...
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I want a psionic / shadow focus, though I expect a psionic / ki focus.
I'd like to see illusionist (shadow controller), necromancer (shadow leader), wilder (psionic striker), soulblade (psionic defender), and psion (psionic controller) as base classes in it. I'd also like to see a shadow striker (Some sort of assassin?), a martial controller (A swashbuckler class), and a psionic leader (An empath or thrallherd, maybe). That's eight classes.
I'd like to see, racewise:
Intelligent undead
Kalashtar / Elans (provided they aren't in the Eberron PH)
Thri-kreen
Illumians
Githzerai
I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.
Yeah, I'd like to see the Soulknife too, as well as the whole psionic array of classes and races.
Honestly, I don't know how they'll be able to do a race of sentient undead without infringing on World of Warcraft IP. Now, if Sword & Sorcery Studios does a licsensed 4e D&D supplement with WoW races and classes, it would do fairly well.
Quote from: mhensley;292460but that would play right into the 4e is WoW argument...
Who cares?
Quote from: jgants;292450Bastard :D
(http://www.geocities.com/the_densetsu/hippos.bmp)
Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292452I would love an intelligent undead race as well. We kinda had the basics of one in the 3e Necropolitans.
I'd like something like them, but without the fiddly character recreation aspect.
Quote from: mhensley;292460but that would play right into the 4e is WoW argument...
Undead PCs were available in 3rd, they just weren't very common. And many of the undead PC options were overly complicated, overly powerful, or required you to reach a high level to access them.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;292429I'd like to see, racewise:
Intelligent undead
Kalashtar / Elans (provided they aren't in the Eberron PH)
Thri-kreen
Illumians
Githzerai
I think intelligent undead will be the most controversial of those, but I do think PCs ought to be able to play undead / reanimated characters, and I think the shadow-themed supp is the correct time to introduce them.
I guess, Kalashtar will be the Eberronian name for the Deva. After all, they have to introduce 4 new races to the setting already: Tieflings, Dragonborn, Goliaths, and Eladrin. (Eladrin are simple, if the stick to the 3.5 campaign setting. Eladrin are already mentioned as lords of the fae plane there. Have some emigration and everything's fine.)
Furthermore that's pretty much what they did with the elves on Faerun. Moonelves and Sunelves are Eladrin, Wildelves and Woodelves are Elves.
Otherwise your selection is not bad. The race selection in 4e is more about archetypes. Mearls mentioned that, when he was asked about Half-Giants. (Too similar to Goliaths.) So there might be one race of upgraded humans but not two. (Elans + Illumians)
Intelligent Undead on the other hand, could certainly be such an archetype.
Illumians were mentioned as a mostly extinct race in the Manual of Planes already BTW.
Quote from: 1of3;292613I guess, Kalashtar will be the Eberronian name for the Deva. After all, they have to introduce 4 new races to the setting already: Tieflings, Dragonborn, Goliaths, and Eladrin. (Eladrin are simple, if the stick to the 3.5 campaign setting. Eladrin are already mentioned as lords of the fae plane there. Have some emigration and everything's fine.)
Furthermore that's pretty much what they did with the elves on Faerun. Moonelves and Sunelves are Eladrin, Wildelves and Woodelves are Elves.
The new four races won't be too difficult, I don't think. If I had to guess, I'd put Eladrin as the Aerenal, with the Valenar and the Khorvaire natives as elves. Goliaths are already in Eberron in the mountains of Khorvaire (Darguun and Droam, IIRC). Dragonborn will simply be from Argonessen and Seren (which are mostly unexplored IIRC, anyhow).
Of them, Tieflings will be the most difficult. I suspect we'll see their origins as mainly from Q'Barra, the Demon Wastes, and maybe the Shadow Marches - anywhere ruins from the Age of Demons survive.
QuoteOtherwise your selection is not bad. The race selection in 4e is more about archetypes. Mearls mentioned that, when he was asked about Half-Giants. (Too similar to Goliaths.) So there might be one race of upgraded humans but not two. (Elans + Illumians)
Intelligent Undead on the other hand, could certainly be such an archetype.
Illumians were mentioned as a mostly extinct race in the Manual of Planes already BTW.
I think they'll bring Illumians back eventually, even if they are "mostly extinct". I think it'll be the Elans who are done away with, probably by integrating them with the Kalashtar (at least), and if Kalashtar have become Devas, then with Devas. My reasoning for that is that there's nothing visually distinctive about the Elan, whereas Illumians have those floating, glowing runes to distinguish them.
Edit: As well, Illumians are already sort-of Shadow aspected, which fits well with a book exploring the Shadow power source.