Good news all around.

Quote from: obryn;292922See, now this is the kind of anti-4e zealotry that I've been complaining about in this thread.  It's like a knee-jerk reaction.  "Someone said something positive about 4e.  I must say something denigrating!"

Yeah, because yall didn't start circle jerking and baiting us antis in the second or third fucking post.

Oh wait you did.  

And D&D's success is akin to the success of American Idol and Fox News.

Crap sells.

OH SHIT I WENT THERE!

(PS: I wouldnt have even commented if you didn't not only intentionally bait, but then then cry like a little bitch when you actually got people bashing. Grow the fuck up.  And if you like it?  Fine, but be a fucking MAN about it.  You are into a goddamned NERD HOBBY, something millions of people think is hilarious to mock, belittle, and insult.  Learn to deal with it and stop crying that your pussy hurts.  Save that pansy ass shit for RPGnet.  Its what its there for.)

(Double PS: No kidding it was gonna sell well.  Its all the shit that should have probably been in the original book they decided to split up so they can sell it to you again, and its D&D which means it is automatically gonna do incredibly well.  Now I doubt this is good for the industry or the hobby, but its obviously good for WOTC and 4e players.  Remember, there are gamers, then there are "X" Players.  "X" Players ONLY play one certain game, maybe 2.  Most of these people will never play other games, especially not ones in their same niche.)

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293069(PS: I wouldnt have even commented if you didn't not only intentionally bait, but then then cry like a little bitch when you actually got people bashing. Grow the fuck up.  And if you like it?  Fine, but be a fucking MAN about it.  You are into a goddamned NERD HOBBY, something millions of people think is hilarious to mock, belittle, and insult.  Learn to deal with it and stop crying that your pussy hurts.  Save that pansy ass shit for RPGnet.  Its what its there for.)

Wait, what's that?  Is that an internet tough guy?!  Why yes, yes it is!  He's so pitiful and powerless in his real life that he pretends to be a badass online!

Do you need some caring and hugs?  I can send your mom over when she's done here, if you'd like.

-O

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293069Yeah, because yall didn't start circle jerking and baiting us antis in the second or third fucking post.

I actually feel sorry for you sometimes.

Quote from: obryn;293088Wait, what's that?  Is that an internet tough guy?!  Why yes, yes it is!  He's so pitiful and powerless in his real life that he pretends to be a badass online!

Do you need some caring and hugs?  I can send your mom over when she's done here, if you'd like.

-O

You mind putting her back in the ground when you are done corpsefucker?

Thanks.

I notice you didn't answer me either.  You passive agressively started it, then cried when you got what you want.
I confronted you, you evaded the question.

Me: 2
You: Nothing.

Now shut the fuck up and quit being a fuckin baby over an RPG discussion.

What can you tell me about the WSJ list itself? Do they track a book over the long term? Do they provide specific numbers? How does the non-fiction category sell, especially when compared to the fiction category? Does this list mean actual books sold, or the old trick of units shipped?

I want a little more context and information before passing judgement.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292944It could be Creeks and Crawdads or whatever else, it's all cool, and I don't care.

You know about Creeks and Crawdads!!!

I am always stunned when somebody mentions C&C.  Such a wonderful beer and pretzels game!   The author used to go to Pacificon in the Bay Area and his late night events were a hoot.  

For you uninitiated folks, Creeks and Crawdads is a comedy RPG like Paranoia or Ghostbusters where you play a semi-intelligent Crawdad who attempts to go on adventures in a post-apocalyptic Creek...but instead, mostly forgets his name and accidently starts a new colony.  

Quote from: jeff37923;292962The ranking data for the 4E PHB2 must be compared to the ranking data of other D&D Core Rulebooks which have come before it in order to see how good the sales are.

Except this does not work.   The main sellers of 1e and 2e books were game stores and bookstores that no longer exist.   Looking at online sales, the internet marketplace in 2000 and 2009 are completely different so it would be unfair to 3e considering how popular online shopping is today versus then.  The internet has exploded the pre-order market.   And the biggest issue is the number of RPG gamers today is far smaller than in pre-Magic and pre-WoW days.

I have no doubt that D&D sold much better pre-WoW.  The fact that 4e makes any bestseller list is a good thing...because my Tyranny needs these sales to continue destroying the hobby with Fun!

Quote from: jeff37923;292962Have earlier editions of D&D ever appeared on bestseller book lists?

I believe the PHB of each edition has appeared the NYT bestseller list.  I remember Waldenbooks having "Bestseller" discounts on the 2e PHB.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293123I notice you didn't answer me either.  You passive agressively started it, then cried when you got what you want.
I confronted you, you evaded the question.

Me: 2
You: Nothing.

Now shut the fuck up and quit being a fuckin baby over an RPG discussion.

I don't really know why I should answer you.  Seriously, you're not looking for a conversation here.  You are way more interested in looking like an intarweb badass (hint: ain't no such thing) and thinking you're scoring points.  Seriously - you're here for your jollies, fine, but don't think that you deserve respect or even consideration for that.  If you want to talk "acting like a fuckin baby," let's look at that, first.

So, what's up next, internet toughguy?  Telling us all about how you're a black belt, 6'8", and have killed with your bare hands?

-O

Quote from: obryn;293132I don't really know why I should answer you.  Seriously, you're not looking for a conversation here.  You are way more interested in looking like an intarweb badass (hint: ain't no such thing) and thinking you're scoring points.  Seriously - you're here for your jollies, fine, but don't think that you deserve respect or even consideration for that.  If you want to talk "acting like a fuckin baby," let's look at that, first.

So, what's up next, internet toughguy?  Telling us all about how you're a black belt, 6'8", and have killed with your bare hands?

-O

Honestly, you could probably kick my ass.  And I aint gonna say I don't say silly stuff, cuz I do.  Cuz that's the point.  This is an internet forum and we are discussing RPGs.  You managed to passively aggressively ruin your own thread 2 posts into it then you got upset when your baiting got you what you clearly wanted.

I called you on it. You know it to be true.  

I even admit in these 4e trainwreck threads I am acting like a twat yet some of you STILL DO THE SAME DUMB CRAP, never actually answering any valid questions anyone makes, just skirting the issue.

Hell, I wouldn't have even commented on the baiting follow up posts except you started crying about it when others called you on it to.

YOU NEARLY INSTANTLY TURNED THIS THREAD INTO SHIT.  I'm just stooping to your level and having some childish fun with it, in the hopes of either A: Amusing myself and others or B: Maybe getting some of you idjits to stop being such wankery fanboys over a goddamned consumer product made by a company who doesn't care about anything except your money.

(Yes I AM well aware that those of us with anti fanboy tendencies are just as retarded.  However I seem to be having more fun with it than you.  So in that regard 4e has provided me with minutes of quality entertainment over the last few months. )

Let me show you posts 2 and 3 of this thread made by Spinachat and yourself so as you can know when you shat on your own thread.

QuoteObryn, you have only proved that 4e is a total failure.

If 4e was truly a success, it would be at #1. The fourth spot is clearly only for a game that no one actually plays except maybe Abyssal Maw and a few scattered RPGA members who aren't intelligent enough to grasp the greatness of [insert grognard favorite here] and have just fallen for Hasbro's marketing hype. But what can we expect from an overly complex Candyland not made by true craftsmen?

Either that or the horrifying reign of Fun's cruel Tyranny has only begun!

No, I think it clearly shows that nobody was happy with the first PHB, and everyone needs the material in PHB2 for it to be a complete game. So the success of PHB2 is a sure sign of 4e's overall failure.



-O

See?  Can you possibly understand how that was obviously baiting people?

You 4e fanbois are no better than us bashers.

We are all in the mud together.

I'm just capable of admitting my bullshit.

You obviously not so much.

So either man up and at least have some damned fun with it, or be quiet and stop whining like an RPGnet poster who was just told someone didn't care about their transgendered fursona or something.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293138YOU NEARLY INSTANTLY TURNED THIS THREAD INTO SHIT.

So that qualifies as turning a thread into shit!?  Amazing!

I don't really see where I called anyone out, or said games other than 4e are crappy.  You can go ahead and call it "passive aggressive," but I'm just having fun with it.  I was making a joke - and not at anyone's expense, either.

Unless my post really was something that someone would argue?  I thought it was too ridiculous to be considered legitimate!
 

QuoteI'm just stooping to your level and having some childish fun with it, in the hopes of either A: Amusing myself and others or B: Maybe getting some of you idjits to stop being such wankery fanboys over a goddamned consumer product made by a company who doesn't care about anything except your money.

Right.  You're on a crusade against something that isn't even happening.  You're not even tilting at windmills - windmills at least exist.  I'm sure in your mind you're a hero battling for - I dunno - consumer's rights?  Does that justify your trolling in your own mind?

Do you need to have a mission to post on a messageboard about games where people pretend to be elves?

Quote(Yes I AM well aware that those of us with anti fanboy tendencies are just as retarded.  However I seem to be having more fun with it than you.  So in that regard 4e has provided me with minutes of quality entertainment over the last few months. )

Well, here's a thought - stop acting like an internet toughguy and playing thread meta-critic and engage in actual discussions.

QuoteI'm just capable of admitting my bullshit.

No, you have a need to think everyone else is piling on as much bullshit as you, because then at least you don't have to come to terms with the fact that you're an ass.

QuoteSo either man up and at least have some damned fun with it, or be quiet and stop whining like an RPGnet poster who was just told someone didn't care about their transgendered fursona or something.

Truly, you have no idea how much fun I have with this.

What's more, I can have fun without pretending to be nonchalant with deliberate "aw, shucks" mis-spellings.  So I win twice!

-O

From USA Today Database (It goes back to at least 1994, probably further):

3rd Edition Books

Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook Edition 3.5
Entered Top 150: 7/24/2003
Peak Position: 57
Weeks on Top 150: 2

Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide
Entered Top 150: 7/24/2003
Peak Position: 92
Weeks on Top 150: 1

Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manual
Entered Top 150: 7/24/2003
Peak Position: 112
Weeks on Top 150: 1

4th Edition Books

Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook 2
Entered Top 150: 3/26/2009
Peak Position: 28
Weeks on Top 150: 1

Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook
Entered Top 150: 6/12/2008
Peak Position: 47
Weeks on Top 150: 4

Dungeons and Dragons Core Rulebook Gift Set
Entered Top 150: 6/12/2008
Peak Position: 57
Weeks on Top 150: 2

Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide
Entered Top 150: 6/12/2008
Peak Position: 128
Weeks on Top 150: 1

Entered Top 150: Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual
Peak Position: 143
Weeks on Top 150: 1

I think that's enough to show that without actual hard numbers this all mere speculation.

Well, perhaps, if we are looking for measurements on an absolute scale it is, but from an ordinal point of view it's reasonably good data.
How many other RPG books are there with best seller rankings? Not many. Sure it doesn't tell you how many copies are being sold, but it does tell you that it likely more than other RPG books.
But, whatever. I don't care one bit how something sells. It has no impact on my gaming experience. At. All.

It does indicate that 4e has not, in fact, bombed.

What about 3.0 vs 4e? Any good data there?