TheRPGSite

...so it looks like it's selling pretty darn well!  IIRC, the success of this book was one of the proposed tests to see if 4e is holding up.  And, based on this evidence, it's doing pretty remarkably well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123812427656154713.html

FWIW, it also hit #28 on the USA Today list.

http://content.usatoday.com/life/books/booksdatabase/default.aspx


(Also, does WSJ putting it on the non-fiction list make the game simulationist?)  

I kid, I kid...

-O

Obryn, you have only proved that 4e is a total failure.

If 4e was truly a success, it would be at #1.   The fourth spot is clearly only for a game that no one actually plays except maybe Abyssal Maw and a few scattered RPGA members who aren't intelligent enough to grasp the greatness of [insert grognard favorite here] and have just fallen for Hasbro's marketing hype.     But what can we expect from an overly complex Candyland not made by true craftsmen?

Either that or the horrifying reign of Fun's cruel Tyranny has only begun!

Quote from: Spinachcat;292902Obryn, you have only proved that 4e is a total failure.

If 4e was truly a success, it would be at #1.   The fourth spot is clearly only for a game that no one actually plays except maybe Abyssal Maw and a few scattered RPGA members who aren't intelligent enough to grasp the greatness of [insert grognard favorite here] and have just fallen for Hasbro's marketing hype.     But what can we expect from an overly complex Candyland not made by true craftsmen?

Either that or the horrifying reign of Fun's cruel Tyranny has only begun!

No, I think it clearly shows that nobody was happy with the first PHB, and everyone needs the material in PHB2 for it to be a complete game.  So the success of PHB2 is a sure sign of 4e's overall failure.

;)

-O

4e's success or failure will not change my negative opinions of it.

Quote from: jswa;2929124e's success or failure will not change my negative opinions of it.

Nor mine.

Plus it is interesting to note that on Amazon.com while the 4E PHB2 is rated at number 1, the 3.5 PHB is rated at number 8. In fact, all three D&D 3.5 Core Rulebooks are still in the Top 50, which is noteworthy since they have all been out since 2003 and are now OOP.

Quote from: jswa;2929124e's success or failure will not change my negative opinions of it.

See, now this is the kind of anti-4e zealotry that I've been complaining about in this thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=292913).  It's like a knee-jerk reaction.  "Someone said something positive about 4e.  I must say something denigrating!"

Quote from: jeff37923Plus it is interesting to note that on Amazon.com while the 4E PHB2 is rated at number 1, the 3.5 PHB is rated at number 8. In fact, all three D&D 3.5 Core Rulebooks are still in the Top 50, which is noteworthy since they have all been out since 2003 and are now OOP.

I'm not too surprised.  The RPG field is fairly narrow, and D&D is a big fish in a small pond.  3.5 is still one of the most popular games being played today, so I'm not surprised Amazon's rankings are reflecting book sales.  I mean, the flip side of this coin is that someone has to sell their 3.5 books in order for someone else to buy them, but it's still movement in the market.

I felt the 4e PHB2's sales were notable, however, since both WSJ and USA Today's rankings are national, rather than comparisons among the narrow field of RPG books.  It's up there with pretty major sellers, outselling the Last Lecture and that Miley Cyrus biography - as well as outselling some top fiction on the USA Today listing.

A lot of this is likely pre-order, but still, it shows there's a real demand for new 4e material.

-O

Quote from: obryn;292922See, now this is the kind of anti-4e zealotry that I've been complaining about in this thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=292913).  It's like a knee-jerk reaction.  "Someone said something positive about 4e.  I must say something denigrating!"

-O

Um, so why did you create a thread about PHB2 rankings anyways?

I think it just shows fanboys are desperate to demonstrate 4E's success.
I wonder how insecure they might feel...

Quote from: jeff37923;292923Um, so why did you create a thread about PHB2 rankings anyways?

Because it's pretty big news for a gaming book to be one of the top sellers, competing with both fiction and non-gaming nonfiction.  Wouldn't you say so?  Generally, gaming books don't even hit the charts.

Also, there was a general feeling in some communities that the success of the 4e corebooks might not last - that is, that a great many people bought on brand name alone and that dissatisfaction was widespread.  Supplement sales - particularly supplements like PHB2 - are about as good a market indicator as you can find, because (presumably) it's mainly being purchased by people who are playing or highly interested in playing a 4e game.

This, of course, says nothing about what kind of games anyone should or shouldn't enjoy.  But, for those curious about the gaming market in relation to 4e, it's a fairly telling data point.  It's a positive indicator for the entire hobby, I'd say.

Quote from: Benoist;292925I think it just shows fanboys are desperate to demonstrate 4E's success.
I wonder how insecure they might feel...

Welcome to another fun little Catch-22!  If you post positive news, it must be because you're desperate.  Only negative news shows a lack of desparation! :)  Your statement is a good example of the kind of zealotry that's harming online gaming discussion.

-O

Quote from: obryn;292928Welcome to another fun little Catch-22!

Absolutely. Which demonstrates how dumb your post was in the first place. If you really realized that people who do not like 4E would not react well to your post, then what reason was there to post it in the first place?

My guess? You just want to "show" how people who happen to disagree with you are stupid, and in so doing, all you're achieving is to show what kind of vengeful, tight-assed person you are.

Quote from: Benoist;292930Absolutely. Which demonstrates how dumb your post was in the first place. If you really realized that people who do not like 4E would not react well to your post, then what reason was there to post it in the first place?

My guess? You just want to "show" how people who happen to disagree with you are stupid, and in so doing, all you're achieving is to show what kind of vengeful, tight-assed person you are.

What?  So nobody on the entire board would be happy to know about it?  Really?  I know there are at least a few who'd be glad to know 4e is selling well - including several people who might not like 4e, but will see it as a positive sign for the hobby.

It's big news, period, whether or not you happen to like the game.

And are you saying I should never post anything that anyone might not like?  Is this the same rule you post by?  You know how silly that is, right?  I was posting some news I found important.  I certainly didn't ask the anti-4e zealots to hop in and threadcrap - they took that duty on themselves.

-O

Quote from: obryn;292931I know there are at least a few who'd be glad to know 4e is selling well - including several people who might not like 4e, but will see it as a positive sign for the hobby.

Sounds good to me. But then I'm a mole inserted by Forge HQ to ensure the destruction of roleplaying as we know it.

There's no question that the success of the PHBII is a major indicator of how successful 4e is overall.  If it ends up resulting that the PHBII sold well, it will be very hard to continue to argue that 4e as a product line is not successful.

RPGPundit

Quote from: obryn;292899...so it looks like it's selling pretty darn well!  IIRC, the success of this book was one of the proposed tests to see if 4e is holding up.  And, based on this evidence, it's doing pretty remarkably well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123812427656154713.html

FWIW, it also hit #28 on the USA Today list.

http://content.usatoday.com/life/books/booksdatabase/default.aspx


(Also, does WSJ putting it on the non-fiction list make the game simulationist?)  

I kid, I kid...

-O

Cool.

Yay, this hopefully means more RPGs in bookstores again!

Quote from: RPGPundit;292935There's no question that the success of the PHBII is a major indicator of how successful 4e is overall.  If it ends up resulting that the PHBII sold well, it will be very hard to continue to argue that 4e as a product line is not successful.

RPGPundit

And I think that's good for the hobby, no matter which game we're talking about.

I don't really see, Benoist, how this is an attempt of making you look stupid.

I really don't want to see anyone look stupid. I am often disappointed by this mad dream, however.

Quote from: benoistIf you really realized that people who do not like 4E would not react well to your post, then what reason was there to post it in the first place?

In other words, if Obryn realized that the truth would hurt people's feelings, why did he post it?

Does anyone even remember the flaming keystrokes of truth? I do.

I really, really don't give a crap what you guys play. Seriously. It could be Creeks and Crawdads or whatever else, it's all cool, and I don't care. Knock yourselves out... but give us the same courtesy. As it is, there can be no positive 4e threads here without someone popping up to ruin it. It's ridiculous.

Acknowledging reality--acknowledging the truth is important. I realize that a lot of the same people who couldn't acknowledge D&D4 are the same people who couldn't believe/accept D&D3 was successful either, so I guess it isn't too out of the ordinary.

But yah, PHB2 is pretty good. I'm debuting my half orc warlord today. :)

As a fan of rpgs in general and as someone who likes 3.5 as much as, if not more than 4e, I am glad to hear the good news.

While sales data doesn't affect me directly, good sales of any RPG could help me find new players in the future.

Here is to hoping that pathfinder also meets with great success.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292944In other words, if Obryn realized that the truth would hurt people's feelings, why did he post it?

Does anyone even remember the flaming keystrokes of truth? I do.

Acknowledging reality--acknowledging the truth is important. I realize that a lot of the same people who couldn't acknowledge D&D4 are the same people who couldn't believe/accept D&D3 was successful either, so I guess it isn't too out of the ordinary.

I'm the wielder of the flaming keystrokes of truth, and this is me agreeing with your point here.  It would be the height of stupidity to simply bury one's head in denial because they don't like what they're hearing, if its the truth.

Like I said, the PHBII selling well would be extremely strong evidence that 4e is also selling well. I want to wait and get some confirmation on just how well PHBII is doing, that is the real question, but if its true, then trying to ignore or deny that truth just because one's feelings have been hurt is not an option.

RPGPundit

I await the howls of threadcrapping after I post this...


If we are going to go the Flaming Keystrokes of Truth with this topic then we have to acknowledge that it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The ranking data for the 4E PHB2 must be compared to the ranking data of other D&D Core Rulebooks which have come before it in order to see how good the sales are.

Then more detailed questions need to be asked.

Does the 4E PHB2 sell better than the 3E PHB2? How do sales of 4E compare to earlier editions of D&D? Have earlier editions of D&D ever appeared on bestseller book lists? Does this book sell better than the 4E Core Rulebook set? Why is it selling better, if it is? Is the 4E PHB2 selling better because the designers the rules to better fit the consumer than with the 4E Core Rules? Is the 4E PHB2 selling better because they finally included the races and classes which were deliberately left out of the Core Rulebooks that players wanted?

Data can be parsed to say anything if you just look at it from one angle. The 4E PHB2 may be a great seller when compared to Twilight: The Director's Notes, but what does that really tell you besides the fact it compared well to that one other book?

Thanks, folks!

Yeah, I have no doubt that sales will drop sharply next week - I think it's kind of how the market works for highly-anticipated supplements.  This will include pre-orders, which was bound to kick it way up.

Now, if it's still anywhere on the list next week, that's amazing.  I don't think it will be, though, realistically.

-O

Quote from: jeff37923;292962I await the howls of threadcrapping after I post this...

Nothing threadcrappy about this, imho.  It's a series of valid questions, not all of which will have answers - much less answers available to us.

The 4e PHB and Core Set never made it as high as this.  They were on the list, but not to that level.  OTOH, both the 4e PHB(1) and the 4e Core Set were on the list, and they directly poisoned each others' sales numbers.

I don't have marketing data for 3e at hand.  I seem to remember it being a pretty huge deal when something - I don't remember what, but it may have been either the 3.5 core set or the 3.5 PHB2 - hit the list.  My possibly-faulty and not-feeling-like-fact-checking-right-now memory would like to say it was #85ish, but I am quite literally pulling dim recollections out of my ass.  I don't remember anything hitting #4 on WSJ or anywhere near #28 on USA Today.  (D&D books, OTOH, always kill the Games sales on Amazon - and generally do better on Amazon's site rankings than in the general market.  It's all about who's comfortable buying stuff on the internet.)

As for the rest, I have no idea why people are buying it, only that they evidently are.  You can extrapolate from that however you wish, but I think the clearest way to think about it is that people generally only buy supplements for games they're playing or want to play.  I'm sure there's a portion who only got it for Gnomes and Half-Orcs and Druids, but I would be surprised if that were more than a bare percentage of sales.

-O

Quote from: Benoist;292925I think it just shows fanboys are desperate to demonstrate 4E's success.
I wonder how insecure they might feel...

Just when I thought you were reasonable...

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPundit;292935If it ends up resulting that the PHBII sold well, it will be very hard to continue to argue that 4e as a product line is not successful.

And yet you will. I mean, it's on a best-seller's list and yet that isn't "selling well" in your eyes.

Seanchai

Yeah. I went over the line. Sorry about that.

Frankly I'm even somewhat drawn to PHB II.  I know, I know, but still, it interested me more than BHB I.

Obryn,

 THANK YOU for posting those links and for starting this thread.
 I knew it did prety darn well at my store . We sold out of it the first weekend that it was out.

 If I post that - people will say its just anecdotal from my store or area - but when you post that link - then its proof of something going on.

 Way I look at it: whether or not you 'like' 4/e D&D, any Role Playing Game book that gets noticeable national sales like that is a good thing for the whole hobby/industry.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;293020Way I look at it: whether or not you 'like' 4/e D&D, any Role Playing Game book that gets noticeable national sales like that is a good thing for the who hobby/industry.

Very good point.

Quote from: Koltar;293020Obryn,

 THANK YOU for posting those links and for starting this thread.
 I knew it did prety darn well at my store . We sold out of it the first weekjkend that it was out.

 If I post that - people will say its just anecdotal from my store or area - but when you post that link - then its proof of something going on.

 Way I look at it: whether or not you 'like' 4/e D&D, any Role Playing Game book that gets noticeable national sales like that is a good thing for the who hobby/industry.


- Ed C.

Did your store do the Gameday event?

I helped coordinate the event at my local store- we had 60 players come through- PHB II sold out during the first slot. One guy came in, tried it out, and left with the three core books, the PHBII, and the FR Campaign Guide. I thought that was pretty cool. I also saw younger kids playing, including a 6th grader who came in with his dad along. And a married couple and two kids at one table.

Quote from: David Johansen;293012Frankly I'm even somewhat drawn to PHB II.  I know, I know, but still, it interested me more than BHB I.

If you're not playing 4e, it probably doesn't have a huge amount of utility, I'm sorry to say.  The fluff is fairly low; the book is around 80% crunch.  More fluff than with Martial Power, but less than PHB1, even.

With that said, I think it has some really interesting character classes and concepts that have never really been seen in D&D before.  Or, at least, haven't been seen as their own class.

Quote from: Koltar;293020Obryn,

 THANK YOU for posting those links and for starting this thread.
 I knew it did prety darn well at my store . We sold out of it the first weekjkend that it was out.

Hey, congrats!  I'm glad to hear it!

-O

Good news all around.

Quote from: obryn;292922See, now this is the kind of anti-4e zealotry that I've been complaining about in this thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=292913).  It's like a knee-jerk reaction.  "Someone said something positive about 4e.  I must say something denigrating!"

Yeah, because yall didn't start circle jerking and baiting us antis in the second or third fucking post.

Oh wait you did.  

And D&D's success is akin to the success of American Idol and Fox News.

Crap sells.

OH SHIT I WENT THERE!

(PS: I wouldnt have even commented if you didn't not only intentionally bait, but then then cry like a little bitch when you actually got people bashing. Grow the fuck up.  And if you like it?  Fine, but be a fucking MAN about it.  You are into a goddamned NERD HOBBY, something millions of people think is hilarious to mock, belittle, and insult.  Learn to deal with it and stop crying that your pussy hurts.  Save that pansy ass shit for RPGnet.  Its what its there for.)

(Double PS: No kidding it was gonna sell well.  Its all the shit that should have probably been in the original book they decided to split up so they can sell it to you again, and its D&D which means it is automatically gonna do incredibly well.  Now I doubt this is good for the industry or the hobby, but its obviously good for WOTC and 4e players.  Remember, there are gamers, then there are "X" Players.  "X" Players ONLY play one certain game, maybe 2.  Most of these people will never play other games, especially not ones in their same niche.)

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293069(PS: I wouldnt have even commented if you didn't not only intentionally bait, but then then cry like a little bitch when you actually got people bashing. Grow the fuck up.  And if you like it?  Fine, but be a fucking MAN about it.  You are into a goddamned NERD HOBBY, something millions of people think is hilarious to mock, belittle, and insult.  Learn to deal with it and stop crying that your pussy hurts.  Save that pansy ass shit for RPGnet.  Its what its there for.)

Wait, what's that?  Is that an internet tough guy?!  Why yes, yes it is!  He's so pitiful and powerless in his real life that he pretends to be a badass online!

Do you need some caring and hugs?  I can send your mom over when she's done here, if you'd like.

-O

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293069Yeah, because yall didn't start circle jerking and baiting us antis in the second or third fucking post.

I actually feel sorry for you sometimes.

Quote from: obryn;293088Wait, what's that?  Is that an internet tough guy?!  Why yes, yes it is!  He's so pitiful and powerless in his real life that he pretends to be a badass online!

Do you need some caring and hugs?  I can send your mom over when she's done here, if you'd like.

-O

You mind putting her back in the ground when you are done corpsefucker?

Thanks.

I notice you didn't answer me either.  You passive agressively started it, then cried when you got what you want.
I confronted you, you evaded the question.

Me: 2
You: Nothing.

Now shut the fuck up and quit being a fuckin baby over an RPG discussion.

What can you tell me about the WSJ list itself? Do they track a book over the long term? Do they provide specific numbers? How does the non-fiction category sell, especially when compared to the fiction category? Does this list mean actual books sold, or the old trick of units shipped?

I want a little more context and information before passing judgement.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292944It could be Creeks and Crawdads or whatever else, it's all cool, and I don't care.

You know about Creeks and Crawdads!!!

I am always stunned when somebody mentions C&C.  Such a wonderful beer and pretzels game!   The author used to go to Pacificon in the Bay Area and his late night events were a hoot.  

For you uninitiated folks, Creeks and Crawdads is a comedy RPG like Paranoia or Ghostbusters where you play a semi-intelligent Crawdad who attempts to go on adventures in a post-apocalyptic Creek...but instead, mostly forgets his name and accidently starts a new colony.  

Quote from: jeff37923;292962The ranking data for the 4E PHB2 must be compared to the ranking data of other D&D Core Rulebooks which have come before it in order to see how good the sales are.

Except this does not work.   The main sellers of 1e and 2e books were game stores and bookstores that no longer exist.   Looking at online sales, the internet marketplace in 2000 and 2009 are completely different so it would be unfair to 3e considering how popular online shopping is today versus then.  The internet has exploded the pre-order market.   And the biggest issue is the number of RPG gamers today is far smaller than in pre-Magic and pre-WoW days.

I have no doubt that D&D sold much better pre-WoW.  The fact that 4e makes any bestseller list is a good thing...because my Tyranny needs these sales to continue destroying the hobby with Fun!

Quote from: jeff37923;292962Have earlier editions of D&D ever appeared on bestseller book lists?

I believe the PHB of each edition has appeared the NYT bestseller list.  I remember Waldenbooks having "Bestseller" discounts on the 2e PHB.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293123I notice you didn't answer me either.  You passive agressively started it, then cried when you got what you want.
I confronted you, you evaded the question.

Me: 2
You: Nothing.

Now shut the fuck up and quit being a fuckin baby over an RPG discussion.

I don't really know why I should answer you.  Seriously, you're not looking for a conversation here.  You are way more interested in looking like an intarweb badass (hint: ain't no such thing) and thinking you're scoring points.  Seriously - you're here for your jollies, fine, but don't think that you deserve respect or even consideration for that.  If you want to talk "acting like a fuckin baby," let's look at that, first.

So, what's up next, internet toughguy?  Telling us all about how you're a black belt, 6'8", and have killed with your bare hands?

-O

Quote from: obryn;293132I don't really know why I should answer you.  Seriously, you're not looking for a conversation here.  You are way more interested in looking like an intarweb badass (hint: ain't no such thing) and thinking you're scoring points.  Seriously - you're here for your jollies, fine, but don't think that you deserve respect or even consideration for that.  If you want to talk "acting like a fuckin baby," let's look at that, first.

So, what's up next, internet toughguy?  Telling us all about how you're a black belt, 6'8", and have killed with your bare hands?

-O

Honestly, you could probably kick my ass.  And I aint gonna say I don't say silly stuff, cuz I do.  Cuz that's the point.  This is an internet forum and we are discussing RPGs.  You managed to passively aggressively ruin your own thread 2 posts into it then you got upset when your baiting got you what you clearly wanted.

I called you on it. You know it to be true.  

I even admit in these 4e trainwreck threads I am acting like a twat yet some of you STILL DO THE SAME DUMB CRAP, never actually answering any valid questions anyone makes, just skirting the issue.

Hell, I wouldn't have even commented on the baiting follow up posts except you started crying about it when others called you on it to.

YOU NEARLY INSTANTLY TURNED THIS THREAD INTO SHIT.  I'm just stooping to your level and having some childish fun with it, in the hopes of either A: Amusing myself and others or B: Maybe getting some of you idjits to stop being such wankery fanboys over a goddamned consumer product made by a company who doesn't care about anything except your money.

(Yes I AM well aware that those of us with anti fanboy tendencies are just as retarded.  However I seem to be having more fun with it than you.  So in that regard 4e has provided me with minutes of quality entertainment over the last few months. :P )

Let me show you posts 2 and 3 of this thread made by Spinachat and yourself so as you can know when you shat on your own thread.

QuoteObryn, you have only proved that 4e is a total failure.

If 4e was truly a success, it would be at #1. The fourth spot is clearly only for a game that no one actually plays except maybe Abyssal Maw and a few scattered RPGA members who aren't intelligent enough to grasp the greatness of [insert grognard favorite here] and have just fallen for Hasbro's marketing hype. But what can we expect from an overly complex Candyland not made by true craftsmen?

Either that or the horrifying reign of Fun's cruel Tyranny has only begun!

No, I think it clearly shows that nobody was happy with the first PHB, and everyone needs the material in PHB2 for it to be a complete game. So the success of PHB2 is a sure sign of 4e's overall failure.

;)

-O

See?  Can you possibly understand how that was obviously baiting people?

You 4e fanbois are no better than us bashers.

We are all in the mud together.

I'm just capable of admitting my bullshit.

You obviously not so much.

So either man up and at least have some damned fun with it, or be quiet and stop whining like an RPGnet poster who was just told someone didn't care about their transgendered fursona or something.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;293138YOU NEARLY INSTANTLY TURNED THIS THREAD INTO SHIT.

So that qualifies as turning a thread into shit!?  Amazing!

I don't really see where I called anyone out, or said games other than 4e are crappy.  You can go ahead and call it "passive aggressive," but I'm just having fun with it.  I was making a joke - and not at anyone's expense, either.

Unless my post really was something that someone would argue?  I thought it was too ridiculous to be considered legitimate!
 

QuoteI'm just stooping to your level and having some childish fun with it, in the hopes of either A: Amusing myself and others or B: Maybe getting some of you idjits to stop being such wankery fanboys over a goddamned consumer product made by a company who doesn't care about anything except your money.

Right.  You're on a crusade against something that isn't even happening.  You're not even tilting at windmills - windmills at least exist.  I'm sure in your mind you're a hero battling for - I dunno - consumer's rights?  Does that justify your trolling in your own mind?

Do you need to have a mission to post on a messageboard about games where people pretend to be elves?

Quote(Yes I AM well aware that those of us with anti fanboy tendencies are just as retarded.  However I seem to be having more fun with it than you.  So in that regard 4e has provided me with minutes of quality entertainment over the last few months. :P )

Well, here's a thought - stop acting like an internet toughguy and playing thread meta-critic and engage in actual discussions.

QuoteI'm just capable of admitting my bullshit.

No, you have a need to think everyone else is piling on as much bullshit as you, because then at least you don't have to come to terms with the fact that you're an ass.

QuoteSo either man up and at least have some damned fun with it, or be quiet and stop whining like an RPGnet poster who was just told someone didn't care about their transgendered fursona or something.

Truly, you have no idea how much fun I have with this.

What's more, I can have fun without pretending to be nonchalant with deliberate "aw, shucks" mis-spellings.  So I win twice!

-O

From USA Today Database (It goes back to at least 1994, probably further):

3rd Edition Books

Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook Edition 3.5
Entered Top 150: 7/24/2003
Peak Position: 57
Weeks on Top 150: 2

Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide
Entered Top 150: 7/24/2003
Peak Position: 92
Weeks on Top 150: 1

Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manual
Entered Top 150: 7/24/2003
Peak Position: 112
Weeks on Top 150: 1

4th Edition Books

Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook 2
Entered Top 150: 3/26/2009
Peak Position: 28
Weeks on Top 150: 1

Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook
Entered Top 150: 6/12/2008
Peak Position: 47
Weeks on Top 150: 4

Dungeons and Dragons Core Rulebook Gift Set
Entered Top 150: 6/12/2008
Peak Position: 57
Weeks on Top 150: 2

Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide
Entered Top 150: 6/12/2008
Peak Position: 128
Weeks on Top 150: 1

Entered Top 150: Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual
Peak Position: 143
Weeks on Top 150: 1

I think that's enough to show that without actual hard numbers this all mere speculation.

Well, perhaps, if we are looking for measurements on an absolute scale it is, but from an ordinal point of view it's reasonably good data.
How many other RPG books are there with best seller rankings? Not many. Sure it doesn't tell you how many copies are being sold, but it does tell you that it likely more than other RPG books.
But, whatever. I don't care one bit how something sells. It has no impact on my gaming experience. At. All.

It does indicate that 4e has not, in fact, bombed.

What about 3.0 vs 4e? Any good data there?

Quote from: paris80;293187What about 3.0 vs 4e? Any good data there?

Player's Handbook
Entered Top 150: 8/17/2000
Peak Position: 45
Weeks on Top 150: 3

Dungeon Master's Guide
Entered Top 150: 9/21/2000
Peak Position: 58
Weeks on Top 150: 2

Monster Manual
Entered Top 150: 10/26/2000
Peak Position: 58
Weeks on Top 150: 2

An interesting detail on that:

The 3.0 core books were released a month or so apart, so you couldn't get them all at once.

The original plan was to do the 3.5 books the same way, but eventually they relented and put them out all at once.

4.0 was the same way 3.5 was, everything came out at the same time.

Yes but, in addition to the fact 3.5 was not a new edition per se, there already was a controversy ongoing about 3.5, whether people needed it, whether it was just a quick buck for WotC, how it impacted third-party publishers, etc.

I.e., I'm not sure these sales ranks are actually comparable, all things considered.

AGAIN FOLKS,...Its a good thing that a D&D book is notable on a national bestseller list. It doesn't matter if you like 4th edition or not. What matters is that an RPG book is selling big numbers and being noticed by a national publication and audience.

 That is a Good Thing.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;293337AGAIN FOLKS,...Its a good thing that a D&D book is notable on a national bestseller list. It doesn't matter if you like 4th edition or not. What matters is that an RPG book is selling big numbers and being noticed by a national publication and audience.

 That is a Good Thing.

- Ed C.

Unless those who bought it want their money back...

Oh - and I'm obviously NOT a D&D 4/e apologist or zealot.
Hell, just look at my user subtitle.


- Ed C.

Quote from: obryn;292928Because it's pretty big news for a gaming book to be one of the top sellers, competing with both fiction and non-gaming nonfiction. Wouldn't you say so? Generally, gaming books don't even hit the charts.

A brief spike and sudden death is a typical fate for insular audiences. It represents all the fans lining up for opening day followed by a failure to engage the general audience. The Sex in the City movie is a recent example of this phenomenon.
 

QuoteAlso, there was a general feeling in some communities that the success of the 4e corebooks might not last - that is, that a great many people bought on brand name alone and that dissatisfaction was widespread. Supplement sales - particularly supplements like PHB2 - are about as good a market indicator as you can find, because (presumably) it's mainly being purchased by people who are playing or highly interested in playing a 4e game.

The corebooks are still the ones to watch for meauring the size of the playerbase -- PHB1 is essential like a video game whereas the PHB2 is supplimental like an expansion pack. Expansion packs never outsell the original videogame.
 

QuoteThis, of course, says nothing about what kind of games anyone should or shouldn't enjoy. But, for those curious about the gaming market in relation to 4e, it's a fairly telling data point. It's a positive indicator for the entire hobby, I'd say.

The PHB(1+n) books are a great from a marketing standpoint. They create buzz and are a good excuse for people to get back into the game. It's also good value for those who want more player content without collecting all the suppliments.