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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Yig on May 02, 2006, 03:37:58 PM

Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Yig on May 02, 2006, 03:37:58 PM
Guess it was to be expected.

Link. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a)

Might pick this up.

The knight class looks interesting.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Ottomsoh the Elderly on May 02, 2006, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: YigGuess it was to be expected.

Link. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a)

Might pick this up.

The knight class looks interesting.

I just regret it doesn't have 2 more skill points per level and more class skills (like Diplomacy and Intimidation, a must-have for a class that relies so much on its speechcraft). On ENW people made a stink about its low Fort save -- how come a frontline combattant doesn't have a good Fort save! -- but that doesn't bother me, really. I just find that not giving it more skills is a missing opportunity.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Name Lips on May 02, 2006, 04:08:18 PM
It could be good, it could be bad.

I was pleasently surprised by the DMG 2. It had some neat ideas, and lots of optional rules and suggestions.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Thjalfi on May 02, 2006, 04:15:23 PM
the feats list certainly looks interesting...
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: RPGPundit on May 02, 2006, 05:41:27 PM
To me the DMG 2 felt like a couple of hundred-page ad for the D&D miniatures game; I didn't care for it in the least. I suspect the PHB 2 will be more of the same.

RPGPundit
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: ColonelHardisson on May 02, 2006, 05:47:14 PM
Quote from: RPGPunditTo me the DMG 2 felt like a couple of hundred-page ad for the D&D miniatures game; I didn't care for it in the least. I suspect the PHB 2 will be more of the same.

RPGPundit

I have no idea how the DMG2 could be seen as an ad for the minis game. I just don't see it.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Yig on May 02, 2006, 06:31:39 PM
Quote from: ColonelHardissonI have no idea how the DMG2 could be seen as an ad for the minis game. I just don't see it.

Me neither.

But the DMG 2 was a bit of a miss for me. Some neat stuff in it, just not enough.

So far, not the case with the PHB 2.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Yig on May 02, 2006, 06:32:54 PM
Quote from: Ottomsoh the ElderlyI just regret it doesn't have 2 more skill points per level and more class skills (like Diplomacy and Intimidation, a must-have for a class that relies so much on its speechcraft). On ENW people made a stink about its low Fort save -- how come a frontline combattant doesn't have a good Fort save! -- but that doesn't bother me, really. I just find that not giving it more skills is a missing opportunity.

Agreed about the SP. But it has a stong Will save so that fit with the concept of the class.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Levi Kornelsen on May 02, 2006, 06:38:09 PM
Looking at the index, I'm thinking

"Pick up this, pick up spell compendium, dump about six books that I only keep for duplicated material, reduce total book-weight and reference time at table"

...And that's fine with me.  Just a question of whether that's worth the money, really.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Yig on May 02, 2006, 06:44:14 PM
Quote from: Levi Kornelsen...And that's fine with me.  Just a question of whether that's worth the money, really.

Shoud be. For me anyway :)
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: ColonelHardisson on May 02, 2006, 07:48:41 PM
Quote from: YigMe neither.

But the DMG 2 was a bit of a miss for me. Some neat stuff in it, just not enough.

That's too bad. The DMG2 is one of my favorite books from WotC. And I don't play the minis game, either.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Yig on May 02, 2006, 08:03:47 PM
Quote from: ColonelHardissonThat's too bad. The DMG2 is one of my favorite books from WotC. And I don't play the minis game, either.

I don't think that it is bad, I was hoping for more useful stuff. Ex:better NPCs stats than theweirdones they put.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: JongWK on May 02, 2006, 08:40:47 PM
*Reads Knight class*

Oh my, where were you two years ago, when I was running a D&D campaign?
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Trainz on May 03, 2006, 12:42:54 AM
It's interesting to note that past a certain level, no foe engaged in melee with a Knight will be able to make a 5' step. This has some very heavy consequences, and makes this class uber potent.

That's what a new class should be like; to bring totally new options to players, not simply a repackaging of already established mechanics.

Sweeeet.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Trainz on May 03, 2006, 12:46:52 AM
And as Yig pointed out to me earlier, the Knight has a code that is mechanically sound within the actual rules. What you're forbidden to do is 100% clear and defined, and so are the consequences. It has direct combat implications.

Very well done.

They put someone with a brain in charge of this book. A brain and creativity, with an understanding of where the game currently is, and what can be done to actually improve it.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Trainz on May 03, 2006, 12:51:19 AM
And the feats... in the Complete books, about 5% to 15% of the feats are actually interesting to pick up, the rest not giving a good enough prize, considering the rarity of feat slots that the players suffer from.

Perusing the feats of PH2, at least half of them made me think "cool... looks worth it".

The armor specialization one is VERY interesting, especially coupled with an adamantium full plate and a high level knight. And an adamantium breast plate on a barbarian. Just really cool.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Levi Kornelsen on May 03, 2006, 01:54:40 AM
Hmm.

I've been looking at this for a bit now, reading what's out there about it.

And I keep thinking that with it out, I'd want to run a game with it, the PHB, both DMG books, the big book of spells, and a book each for setting and monsters.

Seven books.

More than that, and the number of special rules would start to pick at me.  Well, actually, even that size bugs me some, but it's not like that's anything bad about the game line - seven books is pretty close to a baseline "to use" list for any well-supported game line, to me.

That some of the stuff resembles MMORPG stuff is, to me, both a good and bad sign.

The good: WotC learns from successful models.  Awesome.

The bad: Getting close to MMORPG-style content raises the obvious question of "why not just play that?".
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: kryyst on May 03, 2006, 08:10:22 AM
Between picking this up or True20, true20 wins hands down.  The Knight class is interesting but I a majority of those abilities are just going to get you killed quick.  You are already going to be in the front line taking the brunt of combat and many of those feats just ensure that you'll be targeted more then anyone else.  I can see them being useful at higher levels when you have the uber equipment to start shrugging off blows.  But at lower levels you'd be pulp if you start putting most of them into effect.

Now what would be very interesting is a group of knights fighting.  They could pass the damage around and totally control a fight.  That's got huge potential.  Overall though, I'm thinking splice the Knight with a Paladin and you've got a definite winner.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: obryn on May 03, 2006, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: Levi KornelsenSeven books.

More than that, and the number of special rules would start to pick at me.  Well, actually, even that size bugs me some, but it's not like that's anything bad about the game line - seven books is pretty close to a baseline "to use" list for any well-supported game line, to me.
To me, that's way too much.

My ideal game uses one book for all rules-based information.  If there's one rules supplement, I can use that, too.  If all the spells - all of them - are in one single book, I would use that as well.

Beyond that, I only want monster/encounter books that I can use when I need them, and put away otherwise.

-O
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Trainz on May 03, 2006, 11:06:39 AM
Another thing...

That retroactive thingy (for choosable class features, feats, skills), I've been implementing it in my games as a house rule for at least a year now. Basically, it costs 100 xp per spell level of spell, 100 xp per skill rank, and 1000 xp per feat, and the change takes a number of days per 100 xp to apply.

I wonder how they'll do it, I might stick to my version if it sucks.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Bolverk on May 03, 2006, 02:39:12 PM
Quote from: YigGuess it was to be expected.

Link. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a)

Might pick this up.

The knight class looks interesting.

I'll be picking up a copy... and it seems I need to find the Complete Psionics as I must have missed it.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Thjalfi on May 03, 2006, 02:54:04 PM
Quote from: BolverkI'll be picking up a copy... and it seems I need to find the Complete Psionics as I must have missed it.

just came out last month.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: BOZ on May 03, 2006, 03:28:32 PM
DMG2 didn't impress me much.  i saw stuff in there that looked interesting, but not enough to get me to buy the book, or really, even give it a second perusal as of yet.  unfortunately, that has colored my perception of PHB2.  ;)  still, i'll have a look at it.
Title: PHB 2!
Post by: Yig on May 04, 2006, 01:25:03 PM
I called a FLGS today and they said they should have it next week.

Woohoo!