man, those petition sites are the fruitiest thing ever.  usually by #150-200 or so you get the trolls, and by #300 or so it's a virtual tag-board.

i could be completely wrong though: has one of these online petitions ever had any sort of documented direct results that anyone knows of?

also, this whole merger thing just firmly cements my love of print...a real honest to goodness 'book', instead of this ones and zeros crap i can't read on the shitter.



-k

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckIf a "plucky entrpeneur" can come along and steal market share, how is that a monopoly?

A monopoly is a situation where the monopoly can leverage their market share to make it institutionally impossible (or very very difficult) for competition to spring up.

Thank you for explaining what would make a plucky entrepreneur, operating at a cut rate, "plucky".  Oh, and don't be such a tool.  Nit-picking definitions is an irritating habit.

!i!

Quote from: McrowI'm not so hung up on the %, though it will be pretty shitty if they pay the extra and get no benifit from it. My main concern is that the little guys will driven so far back and under the rocks that they will sell less and get less traffic. I don't know that anyone would argue that the big publishers get a lot more space on the front page as things stand now.

If the site were run like a traditional retail store (or say Amazon) those small publishers would get far less front page exposure than they do.

The idea that RPGNow is not friendly to small publishers is just silly. The site created this industry and then it created the remix.

James knows that small publishers have the opportunity to grow into big sellers.

Phil Reed was a latecomer to the party and now he's a veritable 800 lb. gorilla.

Small publishers will always have the chance to succeed.

This merger makes that MORE likely.  

When the smaller publishers were moved off the main RPGNow site, everyone screamed how they were being disadvantaged.

Well now not only are they BACK on the big stage, but that stage is even bigger.

And someone they are still getting disadvantaged?

Chuck

Talk about a poorly titled thread...

This petition isn't about the raise of PDF prices.  It's about the raise in royalty rates experiences by some publishers on RPGNow (yes, that's right, some).  Whether any prices raise or not is up to each individual publisher, not OBS.  If you don't want prices to go up, petition whatever publisher raises their prices (or stop buying from them).

Also, try and remember that while some publishers have enjoyed the same royalty rates for a few years, the average cost of living has increased.

Quote from: blakkieEDIT: Although I'll take your word for it on the actual lowering from some past RPGNow rates. That's an interesting aspect I'd like to hear about. So in the past how much swing were the bigger players able to pull off?

I think it was like 5%. For a small publisher who had maybe a dozen products, that wasnt a big deal to them anyway.

To someone like RPGO, that has a hundred or so, 5% really adds up.

So it was really something only a big publisher (who is dealing in volume) would notice.

Chuck

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckThe smaller the publisher, the more they are likely to be helped by this.

Larger publishers typically are able to negotiate better rates for themselves.

For many smaller publishers, the % taken by the new RPGNow/DTRPG site is LESS than it was under RPGNow.

Chuck

Sorry, Chuck, I was with you until this. RPGNow had a 20-30% cut of revenues, and this is raised to 30%-35%. The old rates were, IIRC, 20% for grandfathered baseline service, 25% for grandfathered Gold service or new baseline service, and 30% for new Gold service. The new rates are 30% if you want to be locked into OBS, and 35% if you prefer not to be locked in. There is no way you can make that paying less.

-clash

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThank you for explaining what would make a plucky entrepreneur, operating at a cut rate, "plucky".  Oh, and don't be such a tool.  Nit-picking definitions is an irritating habit.

!i!

No, tell me what makes it harder for competition to spring up NOW than it was when RPGNow controlled 100% of the market?

Please?

Id really like to know.

The new merged site controls less than 100% of the market.

One would think that would make competiton EASIER than it was in the past.

Chuck

Quote from: RoudiAlso, try and remember that while some publishers have enjoyed the same royalty rates for a few years, the average cost of living has increased.

That's why the royalties are expressed as a percentage.  Are flatrate numbers the norm for establishing the prices for these contracts?

QuoteThis petition isn't about the raise of PDF prices.  It's about the raise in royalty rates experiences by some publishers on RPGNow (yes, that's right, some).  Whether any prices raise or not is up to each individual publisher, not OBS.  If you don't want prices to go up, petition whatever publisher raises their prices (or stop buying from them).

:confused: Yes, game developers, feast upon your margins. Not food.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckA monopoly is a situation where the monopoly can leverage their market share to make it institutionally impossible (or very very difficult) for competition to spring up.

  Not according to my dictionary.  Besides which, they can and do do exactly that by virtue of the prefered rates for people who are exclusive to the site.  They're now THE dominant force in the market and exclusivity deals are designed to make it difficult for any new competitor to enter the market because now publishers will have to weigh the potential earnings from the new site against the higher rate they'd have to pay on OBS.

  It's close to a monopoly, there was an attempt to establish a monopoly (by buying out e23) and there are policies in place disinsentivising any publisher from supporting a hypothetical new player, or even displaying their products on the smaller sites such as e23 and Paizo.

Quote from: flyingmiceSorry, Chuck, I was with you until this. RPGNow had a 20-30% cut of revenues, and this is raised to 30%-35%. The old rates were, IIRC, 20% for grandfathered baseline service, 25% for grandfathered Gold service or new baseline service, and 30% for new Gold service. The new rates are 30% if you want to be locked into OBS, and 35% if you prefer not to be locked in. There is no way you can make that paying less.

-clash

Well, I was mostly going by the number of publishers who I heard pipe up in the publishers' forum saying "this doesnt matter to me, my old rate was lower".

Since I dont pay attention to anyone's % but mine, I could be incorrect on that point.

I stand by the rest of my points.

This is not a monopoly.

The sky is not falling.

The new site will help the vast majority of publishers.

Chuck

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckWell, I was mostly going by the number of publishers who I heard pipe up in the publishers' forum saying "this doesnt matter to me, my old rate was lower".

Since I dont pay attention to anyone's % but mine, I could be incorrect on that point.

I stand by the rest of my points.

This is not a monopoly.

The sky is not falling.

The new site will help the vast majority of publishers.

Chuck

The new rate is the same as on DTRPG, but definitely higher than any published rates on RPGNow. If anyone was paying a *higher* rate on RPGnow, I have no idea why.

-clash

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalNot according to my dictionary.  Besides which, they can and do do exactly that by virtue of the prefered rates for people who are exclusive to the site.  They're now THE dominant force in the market and exclusivity deals are designed to make it difficult for any new competitor to enter the market because now publishers will have to weigh the potential earnings from the new site against the higher rate they'd have to pay on OBS.

  It's close to a monopoly, there was an attempt to establish a monopoly (by buying out e23) and there are policies in place disinsentivising any publisher from supporting a hypothetical new player, or even displaying their products on the smaller sites such as e23 and Paizo.

Right.

And can your dictionary explain to me why a site was able to rise up and be serious competition at a time when one site controlled 100% of the market (RPGNow) but couldnt rise up now at a time when three sites control that same market?

No one ever answers that question.

Cause they cant.

When DTRPG was formed, RPGNow controlled 100% of the market.

And competition was possible.

Chuck

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckWell, I was mostly going by the number of publishers who I heard pipe up in the publishers' forum saying "this doesnt matter to me, my old rate was lower".

Since I dont pay attention to anyone's % but mine, I could be incorrect on that point.

I stand by the rest of my points.

This is not a monopoly.

The sky is not falling.

The new site will help the vast majority of publishers.

Chuck

we will see if you think the same 18 months from now.

Quote from: Mcrowwe will see if you think the same 18 months from now.

You act like I was driving in fucking gold plated cadillacs before this move and am not ALWAYS one quarter away from sending out resumes.

Please tell me how the next 18 months will be substantially different from the last 5 years.

When I joined RPGobjects, they had one product line with 6 products (Darwin's World) and I had written 3 books (Vigilance, Vigilance: Absolute POwer printed by MEG and Raw Recruits).

Now we're a top ten vendor.

Conditions have changed several times since then but we always manage to adapt and thrive.

Either we will continue to do that.

Or we wont.

Same as it ever was.

Chuck

The difference in rates won't make that much of a difference in pdf prices. Some publishers will absorb the rate hike, some will mirror it in their pricing - a 10% hike on a $5 item is just $0.50 - and some will mix these two. It will probably hit low-priced pdfs the hardest. There will be several strategies to deal with this, but none of them will magically hike the prices up very much at all. It matters more to the publishers than to the consumers, some of whom have been living on very thin margins, which I think is a stupid strategy, but that's just me. Don't everyone have a fit and panic.

-clash