Quote from: FunTyrant;467673I think that speaks more to the players than the system, though. I have players who will go talk to their side characters during "downtime", and I've had players who wouldn't use their background bits if you prodded them with a cattle prod.

Perhaps. But i wouldn't want to roleplay a scene where MJ chews me out, while i play Spiderman. Having her feature in the game, as a plot device or some such, is one thing, but having to roleplay taking MJ out wouldn't interest me at all. So unless there's another way to handle such compels I wouldn't want to play that. Working for JJJ is another matter; for a start he's probably easier to roleplay as he just yells at Parker regardless and will invariably have him go on some photographic mission which may well land him at the scene of another crime ("go cover the unveiling the great jewel at the museum, parker!"...before Kraven shows up to steal it).

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;467676Perhaps. But i wouldn't want to roleplay a scene where MJ chews me out, while i play Spiderman. Having her feature in the game, as a plot device or some such, is one thing, but having to roleplay taking MJ out wouldn't interest me at all.

Uh... then don't make MJ an aspect on your character sheet?

Quote from: two_fishes;467687Uh... then don't make MJ an aspect on your character sheet?

Um...so how does Ghost Whistler get the game he wants, where MJ is a plot device but he doesn't have to roleplay the wordy details of scenes between his PC and said redhead?

Quote from: FunTyrant;467672Okay, I get what you're saying now. Still, just because the outcome (MJ is mad at Peter) is set, how that affects things isn't.

I don't know, but I think it kind of does mean it's preordained. That's were it gets sticky in the one quickly can quickly get into caught up in less the fruitful search of what is the most technical and theologically correct interpretation of the holy Compel mechanic, but I would draw you to this blog entry from a rather authoritative source http://lcdarkwood.livejournal.com/3824.html

Now maybe not everyone does it that way, but you can see my confusion.

QuoteAs a side note, if Peter blows off his girlfriend MJ in other RPGs, the outcome (MJ is mad at Peter) is still "preordained", isn't it?

Not really. It could be in fact as I said before that playing hard to get might work in Peter's favour. It's all up for grabs.

I like Icon's handling of it, but  I think its more confusing in some ways than traditional SOTC style Fate, since most such Aspects are personal details rather than outside sources of interaction. (At least in my experience.)

In this case, I think it be "MJ and Pete have fight and since it was problematic he thinks about it in his fight against the Vulture, and can't focus to get the most of his abilities."

I.e  He suffers for caring, and thinking about that. It isn't an all or nothing, just a minor difficulty boost/penalty.

When he gets home he finds MJ not apparently there and freaks out until he finally finds her quiet in the bedroom ready to talk and make up as long as he admits he was partly wrong.


Having it on the PC sheet is flag you want stuff to happen around it. Taking or spending a determination point around it means you are waving the flag drawing attention to it.



IN H&S2E Stress triggers will be somewhat aspect like, but still a bit different. Having a relationship (good or bad) on the pc's sheet lets them dump stress into it, creating fallout, and dealing with the fallout is part of the play session (this one or next one.)

I agree the Icons treatment of Compels is confusing, and partly I think that's because half the time Kenson treats them like Mutant & Mastermind Hero Points; that is to say the GM gives a Hero Point to the players as a bribe whenever the he "cheats" or makes something particularly bad or annoying happen (like allows a supervillain to get away or escape from jail), regardless of whether they ties with an Aspect or not (technically, what you are meant to do is assign a temporary Aspect to the player with the sole purpose to give them a Determination Point).

It's not a bad idea in principle, but it does represent a a further significant drift from the original Fate Compel concept which as a mechanic was already, in my experience, subject to drift and misinterpretation.

Quote from: Soylent Green;467810I agree the Icons treatment of Compels is confusing, and partly I think that's because half the time Kenson treats them like Mutant & Mastermind Hero Points; that is to say the GM gives a Hero Point to the players as a bribe whenever the he "cheats" or makes something particularly bad or annoying happen (like allows a supervillain to get away or escape from jail), regardless of whether they ties with an Aspect or not

Really? Where does it say that?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;467859Really? Where does it say that?

RPGPundit

Temporary Challenges are mentioned on page 92. How he see Temporary Challenges working is made more clear in the adventures Kenson wrote like Skeletron Key in which in order to help the bad guys get away in the first scene he suggests a bunch of diversions and awarding players DP as compensation.

The Icons rulebook also suggests awarding ad-hoc DP when players do really cool things in game which is departure from the Fate model in which earn Fate Points in adversity and spend them to do cool things.

Wait, so the idea is you get bonus points in exchange for railroading? Who would rather have bonus points than getting to actually affect how things turn out?

Quote from: Cole;467865Wait, so the idea is you get bonus points in exchange for railroading? Who would rather have bonus points than getting to actually affect how things turn out?

Sort of, which is where I see the influence from Mutants and Mastermind. But you can always refuse the Compel.

But let's not get too hung up about the word "railroading". In the context of a one-shot adventure (not everything is a sandbox after all), if the bad guy gets away in the very first scene, there is a pretty good chance you will have a second stab at him - and second stab at him when you have more Fate Points to boot. As a player there is no need to panic,  feel cheated or whine about it. But the option is there in the rules to refuse the Compel, take down the bad guy in the first scene and then everyone can go home early.  

The point is, there is no deception, no GM using forcing his will on the players, everyone is playing by the rules.

The classic railroad is when the GM fudges the dice behind the GM screen to help the bad guy get away while letting the players believe they ever stood a chance of getting him.

Quote from: Soylent Green;467864Temporary Challenges are mentioned on page 92. How he see Temporary Challenges working is made more clear in the adventures Kenson wrote like Skeletron Key in which in order to help the bad guys get away in the first scene he suggests a bunch of diversions and awarding players DP as compensation.

The Icons rulebook also suggests awarding ad-hoc DP when players do really cool things in game which is departure from the Fate model in which earn Fate Points in adversity and spend them to do cool things.

I see.. I guess I just didn't put too much weight on this.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;467885I see.. I guess I just didn't put too much weight on this.

RPGPundit

No worries. Once could say that putting too much weight on things is the curse of modern gaming.

Quote from: Soylent Green;467887No worries. Once could say that putting too much weight on things is the curse of modern gaming.

I just took to assuming that the authors put this in the periphery rather than the core of their system for a reason, it was meant more as suggestion than rule.

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