So let me get this straight...
I could make persistent (Complete Arcane) a Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (PHB2) on the whole party?
Recitation (PHB2) also?
As far as I can tell, yes. They'd be 10th and 13th level spells, though.
Really, I don't see much trouble with Persistent Spell as written. The brokenness doesn't come into play until you allow abilities that defer the cost of using a spell slot 6 levels higher (e.g. the Divine Metamagic feat).
Quote from: DackeAs far as I can tell, yes. They'd be 10th and 13th level spells, though.
I'm using Divine Metamagic (Persistent). I can persist 2 spells of any level per day.
QuoteReally, I don't see much trouble with Persistent Spell as written. The brokenness doesn't come into play until you allow abilities that defer the cost of using a spell slot 6 levels higher (e.g. the Divine Metamagic feat).
That's what I figured. They don't make the spells themselves stronger, just last longer. At high levels, it doesn't make a big diff, because these spells can be cast all the time.
Only one thing to say to that: :win:
Quote from: DackeReally, I don't see much trouble with Persistent Spell as written. The brokenness doesn't come into play until you allow abilities that defer the cost of using a spell slot 6 levels higher (e.g. the Divine Metamagic feat).
So it isn't Persistant that's broken it's Divine Metamagic (Persistant).
Quote from: BagpussSo it isn't Persistant that's broken it's Divine Metamagic (Persistant).
Is not.
:muttering:
Quote from: TrainzIs not.
:muttering:
To elaborate...
ALL my feats and one of my two domain powers are sacrificed in order to make two spells last all day.
I'd say that more than balances it out.
Oh... and Dispel Magic (happened in the campaign I play in).
Which domain power?
Quote from: BagpussWhich domain power?
Undeath domain gives you the Extra Turning feat.
Pretty much every thread talking about doing broken things with Persistent spells use Divine metamagic to get around the +6 levels thing. That tells me that the problem isn't with Persistent spell.
However, I do have a non-broken problem with Persistent spell: that it simply replaces the duration with "24 hours" at a cost of +6 levels. IMO, the cost should differ based on the original duration, from maybe +1 for an original duration measured in hours, to maybe +7 or +8 for one measured in rounds. Something like the way you change the pricing of continuous magic items based on spell duration.
Quote from: TrainzRighteous Wrath of the Faithful (PHB2)
Recitation (PHB2)
I can't find these spells in the PHB2. Can you give me page references?
Cheers,
Roger
Quote from: RogerI can't find these spells in the PHB2. Can you give me page references?
Cheers,
Roger
He fucked up. Replace PHB2 with Spell Compendium.
Or Complete Divine.
Updated versions in the SC :)
Yeah, what they said... sorry.
Needless to say, my party worships me now that I pull this off.
:)
And it only takes three feats, a spell slot, and all your turning attempts.
Cheers,
Roger
Quote from: RogerAnd it only takes all your feats, a spell slot, and all your turning attempts.
Fixed.
You have to take a lot of Extra Turningif you want it to be worth it.
Quote from: YigFixed.
You have to take a lot of Extra Turningif you want it to be worth it.
That's just it.
If you go half-assed about it, you're shooting yourself in the foot big time. You burn everything to achieve this, which I feel balances out in the end.
Quote from: TrainzThat's just it.
If you go half-assed about it, you're shooting yourself in the foot big time. You burn everything to achieve this, which I feel balances out in the end.
You've caught the errata for Persistent Spell that requires you have the metamagic feat you use it with right?
I agree with several others. When you combine Divine Metamagic with Extend, Persistent Spell, and the turning attempts, it quickly loses a lot of it's overpowered nature. It's still an extremely powerful combo, but it's much less abusive when it takes half your power to pull it off.
I'll just note that there are a few other ways of converting other resources into metamagic boosts. The one that comes to mind is Metamagic Song (Races of Stone), which converts bardic music, and the Spontaneous Metamagic variants from Unearthed Arcana (either converting other spells, or giving X uses per day of the feats). These have one thing in common: they don't let you bypass the normal spell level limitation. In other words, a 7th level bard with Metamagic Song can't use his bardic music to cast an Extended Blink, because that would be a 4th level spell and he can only cast up to 3rd level. He could cast an Extended Heroism, though, and only use a 2nd level slot plus one Bardic Music use.
Divine Metamagic is, AFAIK, the only method of bypassing this limit.
Quote from: JanosYou've caught the errata for Persistent Spell that requires you have the metamagic feat you use it with right?
Of course.
QuoteI agree with several others. When you combine Divine Metamagic with Extend, Persistent Spell, and the turning attempts, it quickly loses a lot of it's overpowered nature. It's still an extremely powerful combo, but it's much less abusive when it takes half your power to pull it off.
Yup.
Extend is a prereq for this mega combo, but it's nice to have by itself also, especially with things like Hero's Feast.