SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Perkins states "There isnt a new edition"

Started by Omega, March 27, 2024, 09:08:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 2 3 4 5
User actions

Omega

#15
March 28, 2024, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: yosemitemike on March 28, 2024, 07:47:44 AM
The way WotC is marketing this is just weird.  It's like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They want to make a new edition but they don't want to alienate all of the 5e players.  So it's 5e but it's also not 5e.  It's the same but different.  It's okay if things go away because they will still be there?  What the fuck?  Either it goes away or it doesn't go away.  Is it 5e again or is it different?  If it's 5e again, why does anyone need it?  Are they removing things or not?  Why can't they just tell us what this product is going to be?

Because if they told us we'd wouldnt buy it. Perkins has already stated the DMG will practically push storygamer screeds like "The DM is there to serve the players and every player is a DM!" What DM is going to buy a book that tells them they have to be the players slave?

Aglondir

#16
March 28, 2024, 09:57:48 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on March 28, 2024, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: Aglondir on March 27, 2024, 09:51:19 PM
I don't want to defend anyone at WOTC, but I actually agree with Perkins on this. If I were designing the game, I'd take it down to 4 base classes (Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue) and make everything else a variant on one of those. Either through subclasses or by feat selection. Then again, I bailed out of the 5E ship years ago.
Even the Cleric is just a D&D-ism that is barely retained anyway as Bards now have Arcane healing.

All you really need are three classes; Fighter (fighty guy), Mage (casty guy) and Expert (skill guy); and free multi-classing between them.

Cleric is a Figher/Mage with a focus on healing spells. Paladin is also a Fighter/Mage with twice the levels in Fighter as Mage. Ranger is a Fighter/Expert with a focus on Nature, Barbarian is the same, but has way more levels in fighter than expert. Druid is a Mage with Nature/Shapeshifting focus. Etc.

Beyond that, you just need some subclass specifics like "Str vs. Dex based" Fighter options... with Rage, Unarmored Defense, and Unarmed strikes in the list somewhere for Fighter, Skill Tricks for the Expert (ex. Nature abilities, Mechanics/Locks/Traps, Social, Stealth), and spell school and/or power source focus for the Mage and you could more than cover all the D&D classes and have much broader options in general.

Chris,

Excellent ideas. And it totally works, it's True 20!  Except for the awful damage save. X Without Number does soemthing like this as well.

RNGm

#17
March 29, 2024, 07:19:07 AM
Just like Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia, there isn't a new edition... until a few years from now, we've always been at war with Eurasia and they admit there is a new edition and your old stuff isn't compatible.

FingerRod

#18
March 29, 2024, 07:34:31 AM
I'm still on the fence with Perkins. On one hand, all of the evidence in front of my face. On the other, this dude has a true and deep love of the game. From being an absolute pest until getting his stuff published as a teenager to DM'g on stage for years and years despite reportedly suffering from crippling anxiety, my current status with CP is...complicated.

I'm taking a wait and see with this one. Although, if I pushed my chips in...my guess is he'll make all the concessions he needs to the overlords and we'll have Soy D&D.

Exploderwizard

#19
March 29, 2024, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 28, 2024, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: yosemitemike on March 28, 2024, 07:47:44 AM
The way WotC is marketing this is just weird.  It's like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They want to make a new edition but they don't want to alienate all of the 5e players.  So it's 5e but it's also not 5e.  It's the same but different.  It's okay if things go away because they will still be there?  What the fuck?  Either it goes away or it doesn't go away.  Is it 5e again or is it different?  If it's 5e again, why does anyone need it?  Are they removing things or not?  Why can't they just tell us what this product is going to be?

Because if they told us we'd wouldnt buy it. Perkins has already stated the DMG will practically push storygamer screeds like "The DM is there to serve the players and every player is a DM!" What DM is going to buy a book that tells them they have to be the players slave?

Slave is a banned word at Wizards of the Woke. The DM will be referred to as the facilitator of player fantasies while players are editors of their own unique stories. That is woke speak for slave to to a bunch of narcasisstic wanna-be actors.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Steven Mitchell

#20
March 29, 2024, 09:05:44 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on March 29, 2024, 07:34:31 AM
I'm still on the fence with Perkins. On one hand, all of the evidence in front of my face. On the other, this dude has a true and deep love of the game. From being an absolute pest until getting his stuff published as a teenager to DM'g on stage for years and years despite reportedly suffering from crippling anxiety, my current status with CP is...complicated.

I'm taking a wait and see with this one. Although, if I pushed my chips in...my guess is he'll make all the concessions he needs to the overlords and we'll have Soy D&D.

There's a disconnect in Perkin's brain between what he writes and what he means--this was true even in his first adventures for Dungeon magazine.  When I see that kind of pervasive disconnect, I suspect lots of minor fudging in his games to make it work.  He's just not really a mechanics/system guy, and it shows.

Ruprecht

#21
March 29, 2024, 10:53:05 AM Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 01:33:55 PM by Ruprecht
While I agree the game has more classes then it needs the argument that it might be confusing for a newbie seems to forget about the starter set or the DM. Those won't apply to the vtt-d$d though so I wonder if he isn't floating an idea to see how it's taken.

Play vtt-d$d newbie level with fewer classses at a lesser price or play the advanced version and get all the options and more, now for a limited time only, at $$$$$$
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

blackstone

#22
March 29, 2024, 11:36:33 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 29, 2024, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 28, 2024, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: yosemitemike on March 28, 2024, 07:47:44 AM
The way WotC is marketing this is just weird.  It's like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They want to make a new edition but they don't want to alienate all of the 5e players.  So it's 5e but it's also not 5e.  It's the same but different.  It's okay if things go away because they will still be there?  What the fuck?  Either it goes away or it doesn't go away.  Is it 5e again or is it different?  If it's 5e again, why does anyone need it?  Are they removing things or not?  Why can't they just tell us what this product is going to be?

Because if they told us we'd wouldnt buy it. Perkins has already stated the DMG will practically push storygamer screeds like "The DM is there to serve the players and every player is a DM!" What DM is going to buy a book that tells them they have to be the players slave?

Slave is a banned word at Wizards of the Woke. The DM will be referred to as the facilitator of player fantasies while players are editors of their own unique stories. That is woke speak for slave to to a bunch of narcasisstic wanna-be actors.

The word "Slave" is banned at WoTC?

What the actual fuck?

That's just...stupid.
1. I'm a married homeowner with a career and kids. I won life. You can't insult me.

2. I've been deployed to Iraq, so your tough guy act is boring.

FingerRod

#23
March 29, 2024, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 29, 2024, 09:05:44 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on March 29, 2024, 07:34:31 AM
I'm still on the fence with Perkins. On one hand, all of the evidence in front of my face. On the other, this dude has a true and deep love of the game. From being an absolute pest until getting his stuff published as a teenager to DM'g on stage for years and years despite reportedly suffering from crippling anxiety, my current status with CP is...complicated.

I'm taking a wait and see with this one. Although, if I pushed my chips in...my guess is he'll make all the concessions he needs to the overlords and we'll have Soy D&D.

There's a disconnect in Perkin's brain between what he writes and what he means--this was true even in his first adventures for Dungeon magazine.  When I see that kind of pervasive disconnect, I suspect lots of minor fudging in his games to make it work.  He's just not really a mechanics/system guy, and it shows.

When you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense to me. I never ran his material, and I only knew some of the story leading up to them being published.

Venka

#24
March 29, 2024, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: blackstone on March 29, 2024, 11:36:33 AM
The word "Slave" is banned at WoTC?

What the actual fuck?

That's just...stupid.

I mean no, they never said it is banned.  But kinda yes because they have stripped out every reference to slavery that they can.  This is done for real world political reasons, and no other thing.  It is unrealistic, as slavery exists in almost all times and places, with the exception of like, some white countries fighting against it over the last couple centuries, and a few other small places here and there.  Their likely reason for removing it is that portraying historically realistic racism in fantasy gaming puts it into an accurate historical perspective, and avoiding that is a top task by people who want to do anti-white propaganda.

RPGPundit

#25
March 29, 2024, 03:27:00 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on March 27, 2024, 09:51:19 PM
Quote from: Perkins"Speaking frankly, [and] this is my own personal opinion, 12 classes is actually a lot," Perkins says. "If I were redesigning, if I could go back to 2012 to when we were talking about fifth edition for the first time, I would probably put a strong case forward that we could actually do with less classes in the core game. You know, keep the choices simple. Because when you're asking somebody to choose between a Sorcerer and a Wizard, to the untrained eye, it's not clear what the difference is until you start to drill down and you realize where they get their power from and how their spell-casting works. When you look at it superficially, they seem pretty much the same. And you know, what is the difference between a Barbarian and a Fighter? A Barbarian could almost be a subclass [for a] Fighter if we were designing this game from scratch."

I don't want to defend anyone at WOTC, but I actually agree with Perkins on this. If I were designing the game, I'd take it down to 4 base classes (Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue) and make everything else a variant on one of those. Either through subclasses or by feat selection. Then again, I bailed out of the 5E ship years ago. 

[/quote]

That's exactly what I advocated for at the time. My suggestion to Mearls was that there be four core classes, and all kinds of others could be presented as optional classes in the DMG or elsewhere, for the DM to use if he wished to allow.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Horace

#26
March 29, 2024, 11:16:36 PM Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 11:18:10 PM by Horace
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 29, 2024, 03:27:00 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on March 27, 2024, 09:51:19 PM
I don't want to defend anyone at WOTC, but I actually agree with Perkins on this. If I were designing the game, I'd take it down to 4 base classes (Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue) and make everything else a variant on one of those. Either through subclasses or by feat selection. Then again, I bailed out of the 5E ship years ago. 
That's exactly what I advocated for at the time. My suggestion to Mearls was that there be four core classes, and all kinds of others could be presented as optional classes in the DMG or elsewhere, for the DM to use if he wished to allow.
It's what I would have wanted as well. The Sorcerer and Warlock are the worst offenses. I could have lived with the Paladin, Bard, and Ranger. But four classes would have been ideal.

More radically, I would have done away with most of 5E's "class abilities." The designers went overboard with those, giving characters a new super-power every few levels. Keep it simple, I say.

Nakana

#27
March 30, 2024, 12:18:57 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 29, 2024, 07:48:26 AM
The DM will be referred to as the facilitator of player fantasies while players are editors of their own unique stories.

Player: I wanna do the thing.
DM: ok, roll a d20.
Player: I got a 12, what does that mean?
DM: <soul crushing sigh> whatever you want it to mean.

Nakana

#28
March 30, 2024, 12:30:19 AM
I liked what d20 Modern did with classes. Six. Each based on a core attribute. They should do something closer to that and have subtypes.

Omega

#29
March 30, 2024, 07:46:36 AM
Quote from: blackstone on March 29, 2024, 11:36:33 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 29, 2024, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 28, 2024, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: yosemitemike on March 28, 2024, 07:47:44 AM
The way WotC is marketing this is just weird.  It's like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They want to make a new edition but they don't want to alienate all of the 5e players.  So it's 5e but it's also not 5e.  It's the same but different.  It's okay if things go away because they will still be there?  What the fuck?  Either it goes away or it doesn't go away.  Is it 5e again or is it different?  If it's 5e again, why does anyone need it?  Are they removing things or not?  Why can't they just tell us what this product is going to be?

Because if they told us we'd wouldnt buy it. Perkins has already stated the DMG will practically push storygamer screeds like "The DM is there to serve the players and every player is a DM!" What DM is going to buy a book that tells them they have to be the players slave?

Slave is a banned word at Wizards of the Woke. The DM will be referred to as the facilitator of player fantasies while players are editors of their own unique stories. That is woke speak for slave to to a bunch of narcasisstic wanna-be actors.

The word "Slave" is banned at WoTC?

What the actual fuck?

That's just...stupid.

Oh it gets better. (worse)...
They has a list of "bad" words they intend to get rid of with "really real 5e still!" Ki, fat, witch, think barbarian was on the hitlist too. And at one point they were planning to go through all the old D&D material and censor them.
Print
Go Up Pages 1 2 3 4 5
User actions