https://gnomishbazaar.com/collections/overstock-deals/products/d-d-nolzurs-marvelous-miniatures-human-clerics-90523
Just one phrase for this abomination existing: Healer Heal Thyself.
So let me get this right, a cleric, a wheel chair, when they have access to greater restoration, heal and regeneration. Hell I'd kill myself and do a raise dead if I had to get out of a fucking chair. No one wants to role play as someone who shits in a bag, no one. You role play to be someone stronger, better, healthy, strong or attractive, not crippled. Jesus F'n Christ how can the left be so morally deranged to the point where they don't understand the basics of humanity. If you look like the hunchback from the 300, you damn well don't want to roleplay that character in real life.
There are cultures around being disabled, where they reject cures to that disability, because that disability forms part of their lifestyle.
Deafness is the most obvious one. Even before cochlear implants, many deaf people wanted to force deaf people to rely on sign language and interpreters, as opposed to learning how to read lips and learning to speak.
OTOH, it's pretty common in D&D modules and such that somehow a ruler or rich person somehow cannot get a raise dead cast or other healing magic.
Um. Why would you have a wheelchair bound miniature made for a game with rules that do not exist for crippling injuries and where anyone no matter how hurt is fine the next morning? Perhaps in a Hackmaster game, with brutal criticals, where one could get limbs hacked off you could market this guy along with the one legged dwarf kits, but for D&D it is senseless.
What makes it truly tarded, the character is a cleric. Healer Heal Thyself.
Most people have been ill to the point where they have been bedridden at least one time in their life. I have been and was dreaming of being able to walk or run. The last fucking thing I'd want to do is roleplay as a cripple and relive that fucking nightmare.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 22, 2023, 10:04:00 AM
What makes it truly tarded, the character is a cleric. Healer Heal Thyself.
Most people have been ill to the point where they have been bedridden at least one time in their life. I have been and was dreaming of being able to walk or run. The last fucking thing I'd want to do is roleplay as a cripple and relive that fucking nightmare.
Not mention that for gamers who ARE handicapped permanently the last damn thing they want during their escapist fantasy game is to be reminded of their less than fantastic reality. It is their opportunity be someone else for a while.
Just about the stupidest D&D mini I've seen. That I can remember
To be fair, I had a wizard who went everywhere on a Tenser's Floating Disk, but that was because he was a lazy showboater, not because he was disabled.
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 22, 2023, 12:01:04 PM
To be fair, I had a wizard who went everywhere on a Tenser's Floating Disk, but that was because he was a lazy showboater, not because he was disabled.
Houserule? Not possible by RAW as the disc always follows the magic user.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 22, 2023, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 22, 2023, 12:01:04 PM
To be fair, I had a wizard who went everywhere on a Tenser's Floating Disk, but that was because he was a lazy showboater, not because he was disabled.
Houserule? Not possible by RAW as the disc always follows the magic user.
LOL, kids were always trying that in my game
Quote from: Scooter on August 22, 2023, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 22, 2023, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 22, 2023, 12:01:04 PM
To be fair, I had a wizard who went everywhere on a Tenser's Floating Disk, but that was because he was a lazy showboater, not because he was disabled.
Houserule? Not possible by RAW as the disc always follows the magic user.
LOL, kids were always trying that in my game
Nowadays they try to ride mobile turrets for artificers for their gnomes to get 30' of movement. They do it till their turret explodes, then they learn risk vs reward. Fun is had, gnome balls are blown off, alls good.
What the actual fuck...
This...this is just...wrong.
Who the hell thinks that this a GOOD thing?
The last thing I'd want if I was disabled is to play a DISABLED FANTASY CHARACTER.
EDIT: This just came to mind: this makes absolutely no fucking sense because you have a fantasy game where mid to high level Clerics can CAST HEAL for fuck sake. This alone would negate having handicapped adventurers.
Quote from: blackstone on August 22, 2023, 03:11:32 PM
What the actual fuck...
This...this is just...wrong.
Who the hell thinks that this a GOOD thing?
The last thing I'd want if I was disabled is to play a DISABLED FANTASY CHARACTER.
I am trying to figure out who A) thought this was a good idea and B) gave it the greenlight thinking it would make them tons of money.
I could've sworn I saw this at least a year or more ago, around the time of the dungeon wheelchair controversy. They had some figurines for dual wielding barbarians and stuff.
EDIT:
(https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fa4yk3d6c55e61.jpg)
EDIT2: Freaking reddit won't let me share the image directly...
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/l79g8b/dd_dungeons_and_diversity_the_new_combat/
OK, this one should load...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/sm2fi7tw8nuvxjtlsj3x.jpg)
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 22, 2023, 05:37:16 PM
I could've sworn I saw this at least a year or more ago, around the time of the dungeon wheelchair controversy. They had some figurines for dual wielding barbarians and stuff.
EDIT:
(https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fa4yk3d6c55e61.jpg)
EDIT2: Freaking reddit won't let me share the image directly...
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/l79g8b/dd_dungeons_and_diversity_the_new_combat/
OK, this one should load...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/sm2fi7tw8nuvxjtlsj3x.jpg)
Oh I would paint up all of these as wrinkled old farts and use them as the silver horde from Discworld.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 22, 2023, 06:04:10 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 22, 2023, 05:37:16 PM
*snip*
Oh I would paint up all of these as wrinkled old farts and use them as the silver horde from Discworld.
They look pretty cool as a goof. It's the fact that some people seriously pushed for "combat wheelchairs" and "accessible dungeons" for woke points* that makes them retarded. These were made in response to that. Otherwise I have no issue with them, in their proper (comedic) context.
*not that there was ever any real demand for that. But gotta scrounge nerd hobbies for any signs of not being woke enough to paint them as "bigots". And that month, it was about how D&D dungeons had no wheelchair accessibility ramps. And this was "ableist". Somehow.
It feels like fetishization more than inclusion.
But you know... whatever. I'm sure there will be guilty leftist GM's that buy this shit to show solidarity with people trying to guilt them into showing their fake virtue over problems that don't exist.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 22, 2023, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on August 22, 2023, 12:01:04 PM
To be fair, I had a wizard who went everywhere on a Tenser's Floating Disk, but that was because he was a lazy showboater, not because he was disabled.
Houserule? Not possible by RAW as the disc always follows the magic user.
Only if you're using one of the lame editions. ;D
I use 4E.
Tenser's Floating Disk
Exploration 1
Time: 10 minutes
Duration: 24 hours
Component Cost: 10 gp
Market Price: 50 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that floats a foot off the ground and can carry what you lay upon it. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It remains stationary unless you move more than 5 squares away from it, in which case it moves with your base speed once per round until it is within 5 squares of you.
You can command the disk to move up to your speed as a move action. If you are more than 5 squares from the disk for 2 consecutive rounds, the disk disappears, dropping whatever it was carrying.
Your Arcana check result determines the maximum load the disk can carry.
* * * *
It was mechanically useless (outside of not setting off pressure traps), but was a wonderful magic flex.
Quote from: GhostNinja on August 22, 2023, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: blackstone on August 22, 2023, 03:11:32 PM
What the actual fuck...
This...this is just...wrong.
Who the hell thinks that this a GOOD thing?
The last thing I'd want if I was disabled is to play a DISABLED FANTASY CHARACTER.
Hi, I'm Marty Kaufman-Epstein, pronouns Frog/Frogself/Froggie Bonus Hole. I find all of you disgusting anti-froggite cripple haters. I'm going to write a sternly worded letter to my trust fund advisor about this.
I am trying to figure out who A) thought this was a good idea and B) gave it the greenlight thinking it would make them tons of money.
Combat wheelchair hexcrawl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEC_lkpD3rM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 22, 2023, 06:04:10 PM
Oh I would paint up all of these as wrinkled old farts and use them as the silver horde from Discworld.
That was my first thought
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 22, 2023, 05:37:16 PM
I could've sworn I saw this at least a year or more ago, around the time of the dungeon wheelchair controversy. They had some figurines for dual wielding barbarians and stuff.
EDIT:
(https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fa4yk3d6c55e61.jpg)
EDIT2: Freaking reddit won't let me share the image directly...
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/l79g8b/dd_dungeons_and_diversity_the_new_combat/
OK, this one should load...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_center,h_675,pg_1,q_80,w_1200/sm2fi7tw8nuvxjtlsj3x.jpg)
I don't feel included, where is the bag to shit in for the mini? Where is the catheter line? How is this inclusive to the crippled? What about crippled monsters? Where is the Red Dragon Firecripple the Bewheeled in a wheelchair? Where is the blind behold? Where is the kobold who thinks he's a golden retriever dressed in his fur suit?
With proper Twitter use of sockpuppets I'm fairly sure we could force Wotc to release a monster manual of crippled monsters, it would sell 10 books, all to the writers moms, and half would be returned. WotC needs to start getting some Disney moments of losing money on content.
Mechanically, even healing magic wouldn't make it easy to get working legs back. Raise Dead doesn't seem to grow back legs. Every description I can google says Raise Dead doesn't restore missing parts. Restoration restores ability damage, but Lt Dan, you still got no legs. Seems like what you need for that is Regeneration and that ain't cheap or readily available depending on setting.
Of course, fantasy artifice isn't always cheap or readily available depending on setting either and an adventurer waiting to find a high-ish level friendly spellcaster would really need something like a construct mount to spin around on and if you were going to make one of those, wouldn't something like BigDog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog) not only be better for an adventurer, but also easier for a fantasy artificer to get their head around?
"Oh, hero! You got your legs bitten off? Well, if you really want to go back out there until you can get healed, I do have a contraption for it. Not as good as a horse, maybe, but it can go in more tight spots and won't panic on you."
"No, I want wheels on it instead."
"You mean a secondary mode? Like for inside buildings or city streets or something?"
"No, instead of legs, just wheels."
"... okaaaaaay."
I guess I'd maybe have some enthusiasm if the proceeds for things like this went to something like Paralympics, but nope.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 08:46:44 PM
Mechanically, even healing magic wouldn't make it easy to get working legs back. Raise Dead doesn't seem to grow back legs.
These mini's show the characters WITH legs. Any cure spell would restore use
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 08:46:44 PM
Mechanically, even healing magic wouldn't make it easy to get working legs back. Raise Dead doesn't seem to grow back legs. Every description I can google says Raise Dead doesn't restore missing parts. Restoration restores ability damage, but Lt Dan, you still got no legs. Seems like what you need for that is Regeneration and that ain't cheap or readily available depending on setting.
Of course, fantasy artifice isn't always cheap or readily available depending on setting either and an adventurer waiting to find a high-ish level friendly spellcaster would really need something like a construct mount to spin around on and if you were going to make one of those, wouldn't something like BigDog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog) not only be better for an adventurer, but also easier for a fantasy artificer to get their head around?
"Oh, hero! You got your legs bitten off? Well, if you really want to go back out there until you can get healed, I do have a contraption for it. Not as good as a horse, maybe, but it can go in more tight spots and won't panic on you."
"No, I want wheels on it instead."
"You mean a secondary mode? Like for inside buildings or city streets or something?"
"No, instead of legs, just wheels."
"... okaaaaaay."
I guess I'd maybe have some enthusiasm if the proceeds for things like this went to something like Paralympics, but nope.
The missing part of that logic puzzle is how does one lose a limb playing RAW D&D in any edition. D&D combat was designed from the ground up to be abstract and deal generic hit point damage. In order for 6E to be more "inclusive" it needs to include standard orgnized play rules that include provisions for getting your lovingly detailed character all hacked, mangled and handicapped. Lets not leave out other fun things to add to the experience such as diabetes, kidney failure, and other fun ailments to throw extra fun in your D&D sessions. Just think of all the fun downtime activities your character can participate in:
" Sorry Dave, Hrothgar the Terrible can't go drinking and gambling today, he's got 7 hours of chemo to do".
Yes players will be lining up for a seat at your campaign just itching for a chance to see if they can afford their meds or learn to use their crutches. Buy the Incubi & Inclusion module today!
Quote from: Scooter on August 23, 2023, 09:00:34 PM
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 08:46:44 PM
Mechanically, even healing magic wouldn't make it easy to get working legs back. Raise Dead doesn't seem to grow back legs.
These mini's show the characters WITH legs. Any cure spell would restore use
Depends on how a game deals with injuries, doesn't it? Sure if all you are doing is putting hit points back, everything will be fine so long as you can find a 1st level cleric amenable to providing small miracles, but I know in my games there is a difference between hit point damage and actual injury. Break a leg, you need a splint and a doctor, not a Cure Light Wounds. You need to actually regrow those functions and that is Regeneration unless you can hobble through physical therapy. Slapping hit points back may be helpful, but isn't going to actually fix everything.
Certainly not a common situation, but not necessarily completely stupid is all. That cleric in the first post is definitely jonesing for that 13th level, IMO, though.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 08:46:44 PM
Mechanically, even healing magic wouldn't make it easy to get working legs back. Raise Dead doesn't seem to grow back legs. Every description I can google says Raise Dead doesn't restore missing parts. Restoration restores ability damage, but Lt Dan, you still got no legs. Seems like what you need for that is Regeneration and that ain't cheap or readily available depending on setting.
Of course, fantasy artifice isn't always cheap or readily available depending on setting either and an adventurer waiting to find a high-ish level friendly spellcaster would really need something like a construct mount to spin around on and if you were going to make one of those, wouldn't something like BigDog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog) not only be better for an adventurer, but also easier for a fantasy artificer to get their head around?
"Oh, hero! You got your legs bitten off? Well, if you really want to go back out there until you can get healed, I do have a contraption for it. Not as good as a horse, maybe, but it can go in more tight spots and won't panic on you."
"No, I want wheels on it instead."
"You mean a secondary mode? Like for inside buildings or city streets or something?"
"No, instead of legs, just wheels."
"... okaaaaaay."
I guess I'd maybe have some enthusiasm if the proceeds for things like this went to something like Paralympics, but nope.
You mean a magic wheelchair that weights near to nothing can be dissasembled and assembled instantly, maybe even floats would be cheaper?
I reckopn it would be just as expensive and in reality less useful than say a spider legs contraption.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 23, 2023, 09:22:05 PM
The missing part of that logic puzzle is how does one lose a limb playing RAW D&D in any edition.
Use your imagination. Cruel captors, swords of sharpness, unfortunate circumstances, birth defects, childhood diseases/trauma/injuries etc. Most of the time PCs don't get the worst of diseases or injuries, true enough, but depending on the game it can and does happen. I rolled a character with a six in Dexterity once, poor guy just had a crazy bad leg. Nothing could put it back because that was just how the score was. If he had access to a chair, damn sure he would have used it. Hobbling is hard. Probably would stick to walking with a stick in the actual dungeon, but damn a wheel chair would have been good stuff for him. Strength wound up normal, but no way would I try to say he could lift up a crate even if the STR score said he could, dude didn't have a load bearing frame anymore.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:29:52 PM
You mean a magic wheelchair that weights near to nothing can be dissasembled and assembled instantly, maybe even floats would be cheaper?
I absolutely did not say anything like that. THAT sounds dumb as hell.
If those characters have chairs that are basically just legs with a different coat of paint, then yeah, fuck that.
I'm just saying that in certain fantasy settings characters might need some cunning devices to help them out, which is also dependent on setting like I said in the part immediately after what you put in bold.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 09:38:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:29:52 PM
You mean a magic wheelchair that weights near to nothing can be dissasembled and assembled instantly, maybe even floats would be cheaper?
I absolutely did not say anything like that. THAT sounds dumb as hell.
If those characters have chairs that are basically just legs with a different coat of paint, then yeah, fuck that.
I'm just saying that in certain fantasy settings characters might need some cunning devices to help them out, which is also dependent on setting like I said in the part immediately after what you put in bold.
Well, how else do you think the cripples can go dungeonering? Either they are filthy rich and can get a new wheelchair shipped to them instantly or they can take them with them in the adventure, which means it has to have some heavy spells cast on it else the cripple is a burden to the rest of the team.
I guess the big differences to me are: one, I'm not thinking about rushing in like "Oh yay, I get to play somebody that can't walk!" so much as I'm thinking about characters that wind up with those sorts of circumstances either through explaining things that happen in character generation or in actual play.
I'm not about to go scurrying around for a game that will let me be a Paralympic Dungeoneer in the X-Crawl leagues, but sometimes shit happens and you can either give up on a character or push through and do something fun despite their fate. That wizard I played through past 10th level at least with a six DEX? Got more fun out of the challenge of keeping him alive than I think I would have if he was also a flippy ninja mage with a 16 DEX.
The other difference is I don't give a shit about the makers of that because I am not the target audience. Even if I wound up with a character that needed the getting around, I still wouldn't get a miniature about it. That is just an extra cost I don't need. Dude wound up not walking, I'm not paying another $10 or whatever for that kind of table impact.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 08:46:44 PM
Mechanically, even healing magic wouldn't make it easy to get working legs back. Raise Dead doesn't seem to grow back legs. Every description I can google says Raise Dead doesn't restore missing parts. Restoration restores ability damage, but Lt Dan, you still got no legs. Seems like what you need for that is Regeneration and that ain't cheap or readily available depending on setting.
Of course, fantasy artifice isn't always cheap or readily available depending on setting either and an adventurer waiting to find a high-ish level friendly spellcaster would really need something like a construct mount to spin around on and if you were going to make one of those, wouldn't something like BigDog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog) not only be better for an adventurer, but also easier for a fantasy artificer to get their head around?
"Oh, hero! You got your legs bitten off? Well, if you really want to go back out there until you can get healed, I do have a contraption for it. Not as good as a horse, maybe, but it can go in more tight spots and won't panic on you."
"No, I want wheels on it instead."
"You mean a secondary mode? Like for inside buildings or city streets or something?"
"No, instead of legs, just wheels."
"... okaaaaaay."
I guess I'd maybe have some enthusiasm if the proceeds for things like this went to something like Paralympics, but nope.
Raise Dead: This spell also neutralizes any poisons and cures nonmagical diseases that affected the creature at the time it died.
-So anything they are born with disease wise, its cured, that will fix born crippled.
Heal: Choose a creature that you can see within range. A surge of positive energy washes through the creature, causing it to regain 70 hit points. This spell also ends blindness, deafness, and any diseases affecting the target. This spell has no effect on constructs or undead.
So again any disease that crippled you, its fixed you are walking again.
Regenerate: The target's severed body members (fingers, legs, tails, and so on), if any, are restored after 2 minutes. If you have the severed part and hold it to the stump, the spell instantaneously causes the limb to knit to the stump.
If your legs got chewed off they are back, and that will also regenerate any nerves.
Reincarnate: You touch a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid. Provided that the creature has been dead no longer than 10 days, the spell forms a new adult body for it and then calls the soul to enter that body. If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails.
You get a brand new, perfectly working body of your race or another.
Greater Restoration: You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect.
That will fix being crippled that a debilitating effect, rules as written.
There is literally no in game reason, rules as written why an adventurer of any worth to the country, would ever be crippled and limited to a chair. Its just such a ridiculous retarded mongoloid idea to be spewed out of WotC's fronthole. Its beyond laughable.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 09:38:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:29:52 PM
You mean a magic wheelchair that weights near to nothing can be dissasembled and assembled instantly, maybe even floats would be cheaper?
I absolutely did not say anything like that. THAT sounds dumb as hell.
If those characters have chairs that are basically just legs with a different coat of paint, then yeah, fuck that.
I'm just saying that in certain fantasy settings characters might need some cunning devices to help them out, which is also dependent on setting like I said in the part immediately after what you put in bold.
Well, how else do you think the cripples can go dungeonering? Either they are filthy rich and can get a new wheelchair shipped to them instantly or they can take them with them in the adventure, which means it has to have some heavy spells cast on it else the cripple is a burden to the rest of the team.
If they are motivated enough, it depends on how the game is set up. Dark Sun? They get eaten, I bet. Maybe there is room for a psychic to hold back like a Shadowrun Rigger and do astral shenanigans, I wouldn't know. Eberron? That setting has some industrial level magic and artifice, so maybe it is an exotic option, but still an option. Forgotten Realms? God only knows, there is some crazy stuff in there and I stopped paying attention years ago.
I just think that some settings or campaigns might have grey areas between hoping you can find a 13+ level cleric that will give you the time of day for an appropriate donation and somebody that has mobility issues being a complete drain on the party to the point that they are useless as a character and the player might as well give up and roll something new.
Look, be as pissed at whatever perceived virtue signaling you want to lay at the creators of those miniatures feet you want, I'm not concerned or caring about that and maybe you are even right. All I'm trying to get across is I can see settings and situations where such a thing is more plausible than others even though some people clearly can't imagine it working in anything other than smoothly paved nonsense with gentle slopes and special parking outside the dungeon door.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 09:38:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:29:52 PM
You mean a magic wheelchair that weights near to nothing can be dissasembled and assembled instantly, maybe even floats would be cheaper?
I absolutely did not say anything like that. THAT sounds dumb as hell.
If those characters have chairs that are basically just legs with a different coat of paint, then yeah, fuck that.
I'm just saying that in certain fantasy settings characters might need some cunning devices to help them out, which is also dependent on setting like I said in the part immediately after what you put in bold.
Well, how else do you think the cripples can go dungeonering? Either they are filthy rich and can get a new wheelchair shipped to them instantly or they can take them with them in the adventure, which means it has to have some heavy spells cast on it else the cripple is a burden to the rest of the team.
If they are motivated enough, it depends on how the game is set up. Dark Sun? They get eaten, I bet. Maybe there is room for a psychic to hold back like a Shadowrun Rigger and do astral shenanigans, I wouldn't know. Eberron? That setting has some industrial level magic and artifice, so maybe it is an exotic option, but still an option. Forgotten Realms? God only knows, there is some crazy stuff in there and I stopped paying attention years ago.
I just think that some settings or campaigns might have grey areas between hoping you can find a 13+ level cleric that will give you the time of day for an appropriate donation and somebody that has mobility issues being a complete drain on the party to the point that they are useless as a character and the player might as well give up and roll something new.
Look, be as pissed at whatever perceived virtue signaling you want to lay at the creators of those miniatures feet you want, I'm not concerned or caring about that and maybe you are even right. All I'm trying to get across is I can see settings and situations where such a thing is more plausible than others even though some people clearly can't imagine it working in anything other than smoothly paved nonsense with gentle slopes and special parking outside the dungeon door.
Dude this isn't settings. This isn't rules. This is IGNORING basic humanity wants and desires. No one wants to roleplay as a cripple. NO ONE. No one wants to roleplay as an obese gasbag who blows puss out of boils on their face. At best, you have sock puppet grievance studies assholes grifting the fuck out of WotC for a handout by calling WotC Racist/Ableist etc to get a free writing gig putting out content NO ONE wants. In 30 years of DM'ing I've never had one person ask: I really want to be crippled. Including a fraternity brother with cerebal palsy who used crutches who played a bad ass barbarian never said "You know what, I really want to play crippled in the game it completes me". No, he played a bad ass gay Conan with an axe, it got old rolling "I try to seduce the bartender" in every fucking town.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 09:38:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 09:29:52 PM
You mean a magic wheelchair that weights near to nothing can be dissasembled and assembled instantly, maybe even floats would be cheaper?
I absolutely did not say anything like that. THAT sounds dumb as hell.
If those characters have chairs that are basically just legs with a different coat of paint, then yeah, fuck that.
I'm just saying that in certain fantasy settings characters might need some cunning devices to help them out, which is also dependent on setting like I said in the part immediately after what you put in bold.
Well, how else do you think the cripples can go dungeonering? Either they are filthy rich and can get a new wheelchair shipped to them instantly or they can take them with them in the adventure, which means it has to have some heavy spells cast on it else the cripple is a burden to the rest of the team.
If they are motivated enough, it depends on how the game is set up. Dark Sun? They get eaten, I bet. Maybe there is room for a psychic to hold back like a Shadowrun Rigger and do astral shenanigans, I wouldn't know. Eberron? That setting has some industrial level magic and artifice, so maybe it is an exotic option, but still an option. Forgotten Realms? God only knows, there is some crazy stuff in there and I stopped paying attention years ago.
I just think that some settings or campaigns might have grey areas between hoping you can find a 13+ level cleric that will give you the time of day for an appropriate donation and somebody that has mobility issues being a complete drain on the party to the point that they are useless as a character and the player might as well give up and roll something new.
Look, be as pissed at whatever perceived virtue signaling you want to lay at the creators of those miniatures feet you want, I'm not concerned or caring about that and maybe you are even right. All I'm trying to get across is I can see settings and situations where such a thing is more plausible than others even though some people clearly can't imagine it working in anything other than smoothly paved nonsense with gentle slopes and special parking outside the dungeon door.
I'm mostly pissed because it's dumb and unnimaginative, not the first time we discuss these contraptions.
In the settings where you're thinking it would be possible you still haven't solved the practicality unless the chair has some serious spells/mechanisms.
Then we need to discuss the dumbness and lack of imagination, it's clearly someone without imagination inserting modern shit into the game for woke points:
Mechanical/magical/Magimechanical spider legs, four legs that give you your mobility back plus your speed climbing almost any surface is the same as walking.
A flying carpet.
Tenser's Flying Disk from 4e
Now we have a cripple without ANY of the limitations inherent to being one, so why make the character one in the first place?
Assuming it's not at chargen and the character got mauled at some point in the campaign... Either roll a new one or keep on playing it WITH the inherent limitations it implies.
I wear glasses since I was 15, do you really think I want to play a character with poor eyesight?
I'm also an aspie, as far as I can I try to play my characters not like me.
In my current group the younger player has some speech issues, he choose to play a fucking bard! And Lyle had no speech issues, was charming and a ladies man, something my friend isn't.
I've played as women once or twice (or more but who keeps the tally?), I've played as a wookie, a Vulcan, an Elf, Dwarf and other assorted not humans, I've played as a ripped Barbarian by Crom!. Not once have I wanted to play as a scrawny (when young) or dad bod four eyes nerd (with failing legs in my golden age).
So, it's not only virtue signaling, it's dumb and unimaginative.
Now, in Sci-Fi? Give me that sweet tank threads wheelchair, and I'll live (or die) due to the advantages and disadvantages that come with it.
^
|
|
Ding Ding Ding, we got a winner.
People roleplay what they aren't. A ton of D&D gamers are socially awkward, the unpopular and the unfit, we play the strong, the smart the popular, always have been.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 23, 2023, 10:00:54 PM
Raise Dead: This spell also neutralizes any poisons and cures nonmagical diseases that affected the creature at the time it died.
-So anything they are born with disease wise, its cured, that will fix born crippled.
Heal: Choose a creature that you can see within range. A surge of positive energy washes through the creature, causing it to regain 70 hit points. This spell also ends blindness, deafness, and any diseases affecting the target. This spell has no effect on constructs or undead.
So again any disease that crippled you, its fixed you are walking again.
In your game, sure. In my game, if the disease already did the condition, then damage done and Heal does nothing.
QuoteRegenerate: The target's severed body members (fingers, legs, tails, and so on), if any, are restored after 2 minutes. If you have the severed part and hold it to the stump, the spell instantaneously causes the limb to knit to the stump.
If your legs got chewed off they are back, and that will also regenerate any nerves.
Yes, I agree here. Regeneration can actually fix fully damaged tissues. No problem if you can get it.
QuoteReincarnate: You touch a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid. Provided that the creature has been dead no longer than 10 days, the spell forms a new adult body for it and then calls the soul to enter that body. If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails.
You get a brand new, perfectly working body of your race or another.
Okay, granted. I completely forgot about the spell that could turn you into a badger as an option. Or I guess in modern D&D it is limited to humanoid characters. Still, a point that I have to concede if your character has no issues with their new body.
QuoteGreater Restoration: You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect.
That will fix being crippled that a debilitating effect, rules as written.
Read the whole spell. From the way you are quoting it sounds like you are copy pasting from 5e, and there are only four things Greater Restoration fixes and none of them are necessarily legs not working right. Curses and restoring ability scores are the closest, but not silver bullets for all situations.
QuoteThere is literally no in game reason, rules as written why an adventurer of any worth to the country, would ever be crippled and limited to a chair. Its just such a ridiculous retarded mongoloid idea to be spewed out of WotC's fronthole. Its beyond laughable.
If you are talking worth to the country, I guess you have a point. A nation probably wouldn't act as patron to somebody they couldn't see functioning. But in over 25 years of gaming I've never played in any game where "worth to the country" was a factor in whether or not a person went out adventuring. Heard of them sure, seen published adventures, sure. Played in? No.
I'll happily have characters in my games that could be fantasy equivalents of Professor Xs or Susanna Deans or Barbara Gordons or the like.
That two weapon wielding "not a slayer, I swear" dwarf back there though... that is... that isn't right. There is a line for everybody and I just can't see crossing over that one.
.
.
.
WotC's motivations and degree of care put in though? That isn't something I'm going to argue about. They probably didn't give any of that a lick of consideration, just picked up on a loud trend and ran with it, which is shameful. I've been in gaming situations where a character might have use of such a thing, but blindly throwing out "Look how considerate we are!" as a blank check is just lazy. They took what might have been an interesting option for some types of characters (NPCs and PCs alike) and just slapped a broad brush of permission across it like it was easy as wearing shoes or sandals.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 23, 2023, 10:28:11 PM
Dude this isn't settings. This isn't rules. This is IGNORING basic humanity wants and desires. No one wants to roleplay as a cripple. NO ONE.
And yet, I still did and had fun with it for a good few years of gaming. I know one more person in my social group that plays characters with similar issues to him because he enjoys overcoming his obstacles in a heroic setting, but that is an anecdote that will probably get me called a liar here because no one could EVER like something that seems kind of odd to someone else.
QuoteNo one wants to roleplay as an obese gasbag who blows puss out of boils on their face.
Do you actually believe that people are divided into people who can walk normally and medical disasters that can't wipe their own ass? Nothing in between? You either aren't in a chair or you have to shit in a bag and you can't piss except through a tube? No, don't bother answering that, I can't see where the opinion of somebody who resorts to "retarted mongoloid" as an insult could possibly matter.
Into the ignore box with you.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 10:58:56 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 23, 2023, 10:00:54 PM
Raise Dead: This spell also neutralizes any poisons and cures nonmagical diseases that affected the creature at the time it died.
-So anything they are born with disease wise, its cured, that will fix born crippled.
Heal: Choose a creature that you can see within range. A surge of positive energy washes through the creature, causing it to regain 70 hit points. This spell also ends blindness, deafness, and any diseases affecting the target. This spell has no effect on constructs or undead.
So again any disease that crippled you, its fixed you are walking again.
In your game, sure. In my game, if the disease already did the condition, then damage done and Heal does nothing.
QuoteRegenerate: The target's severed body members (fingers, legs, tails, and so on), if any, are restored after 2 minutes. If you have the severed part and hold it to the stump, the spell instantaneously causes the limb to knit to the stump.
If your legs got chewed off they are back, and that will also regenerate any nerves.
Yes, I agree here. Regeneration can actually fix fully damaged tissues. No problem if you can get it.
QuoteReincarnate: You touch a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid. Provided that the creature has been dead no longer than 10 days, the spell forms a new adult body for it and then calls the soul to enter that body. If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails.
You get a brand new, perfectly working body of your race or another.
Okay, granted. I completely forgot about the spell that could turn you into a badger as an option. Or I guess in modern D&D it is limited to humanoid characters. Still, a point that I have to concede if your character has no issues with their new body.
QuoteGreater Restoration: You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect.
That will fix being crippled that a debilitating effect, rules as written.
Read the whole spell. From the way you are quoting it sounds like you are copy pasting from 5e, and there are only four things Greater Restoration fixes and none of them are necessarily legs not working right. Curses and restoring ability scores are the closest, but not silver bullets for all situations.
QuoteThere is literally no in game reason, rules as written why an adventurer of any worth to the country, would ever be crippled and limited to a chair. Its just such a ridiculous retarded mongoloid idea to be spewed out of WotC's fronthole. Its beyond laughable.
If you are talking worth to the country, I guess you have a point. A nation probably wouldn't act as patron to somebody they couldn't see functioning. But in over 25 years of gaming I've never played in any game where "worth to the country" was a factor in whether or not a person went out adventuring. Heard of them sure, seen published adventures, sure. Played in? No.
I'll happily have characters in my games that could be fantasy equivalents of Professor Xs or Susanna Deans or Barbara Gordons or the like.
That two weapon wielding "not a slayer, I swear" dwarf back there though... that is... that isn't right. There is a line for everybody and I just can't see crossing over that one.
.
.
.
WotC's motivations and degree of care put in though? That isn't something I'm going to argue about. They probably didn't give any of that a lick of consideration, just picked up on a loud trend and ran with it, which is shameful. I've been in gaming situations where a character might have use of such a thing, but blindly throwing out "Look how considerate we are!" as a blank check is just lazy. They took what might have been an interesting option for some types of characters (NPCs and PCs alike) and just slapped a broad brush of permission across it like it was easy as wearing shoes or sandals.
Two of those DO NOT go adventuring but are mentors, not sure about Odetta since I read the series once a long time ago, is she still crippled in the other world? Does she go adventuring? Is there something that eliminates all the dissadvantages of being crippled?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 10:41:50 PMI'm mostly pissed because it's dumb and unnimaginative, not the first time we discuss these contraptions.
THIS I can get behind. The stuff WotC put out is clearly pretty damn lazy and I can see getting upset about it. The fact that these chairs by their published rules are "Legs+" and not mobility options with their own downsides or considerations is a waste.
Gotta say, GeekyBugle, happy to see you are still around. I've butted heads with you on some topics before I think, but it is in general a good kind of argument that helps think of new things rather than just hidebound door slammery.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 11:14:19 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 10:41:50 PMI'm mostly pissed because it's dumb and unnimaginative, not the first time we discuss these contraptions.
THIS I can get behind. The stuff WotC put out is clearly pretty damn lazy and I can see getting upset about it. The fact that these chairs by their published rules are "Legs+" and not mobility options with their own downsides or considerations is a waste.
Gotta say, GeekyBugle, happy to see you are still around. I've butted heads with you on some topics before I think, but it is in general a good kind of argument that helps think of new things rather than just hidebound door slammery.
1.- If you're arguing for allowing people to play a character with dissabilities WITHOUT a contraption that makes the dissabilities go away and then some I've got no beef, you do you boo.
2.- I've been known for butting heads with some people now and again, and again, and again, ad nauseaum
Edited to add:
Unless we're playing supers, then having Daredevil have a power that negates his blindness but has it's own set of dissadvantages is perfectly fine.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 11:13:37 PM
Two of those DO NOT go adventuring but are mentors, not sure about Odetta since I read the series once a long time ago, is she still crippled in the other world? Does she go adventuring? Is there something that eliminates all the dissadvantages of being crippled?
They themselves may not go on traditional adventures, but characters
like them could. Spellcasters most likely, or artificers in their own right. Archers or gunmen, so long as they can get dropped in a good spot first.
And Susanna/Odetta/Detta absolutely stayed legless in the other world, kept on adventuring, and nothing eliminated the disadvantages of her missing everything from the knees down. She had to be carried sometimes and the chair wasn't always a great conveyance. Her first one chair was a nightmare because it was basically an armchair with wheels, heavy and lumbering on anything other than a smooth surface, which there were very few of. Didn't stop her from being a gunslinger, though. She who shoots with her legs has forgotten the face of her father, or something like that.
The Ghostbusters cartoon that had Egon mentoring some teen investigators had a wheelchair guy too. Worked better in NY, but he still had to tip himself down stairs sometimes and blast ghosts prone from what I remember.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 11:18:17 PM
Edited to add:
Unless we're playing supers, then having Daredevil have a power that negates his blindness but has it's own set of dissadvantages is perfectly fine.
Daredevil and Toph Beifong, yeah. Blind as bats, but yeah, disadvantages that don't just make it all go away.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 11:23:58 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 11:18:17 PM
Edited to add:
Unless we're playing supers, then having Daredevil have a power that negates his blindness but has it's own set of dissadvantages is perfectly fine.
Daredevil and Toph Beifong, yeah. Blind as bats, but yeah, disadvantages that don't just make it all go away.
Toph was a great character.
And they should have kept Babs as Oracle and Cassandra as Batgirl. But DC is run by idiots.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 22, 2023, 11:33:53 AM
Not mention that for gamers who ARE handicapped permanently the last damn thing they want during their escapist fantasy game is to be reminded of their less than fantastic reality. It is their opportunity be someone else for a while.
Actually some of us do. But not for the expected reasons.
For me and a few others I talked to on this back in my GenCon days the recurring reason we might was simply that we lacked any frame of reference to play a normal person. We all still experiment though. But its like playing an alien that can only see moving objects.
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 09:25:52 PM
Depends on how a game deals with injuries, doesn't it?
Nope. Talking RAW per D&D. NOT house rules which can be infinite in variety. BAD counter argument
There's nothing in D&D RAW about Cure spells fixing anything other than HP. That's why spells like Restoration and Regeneration are a thing. And there have always been ways to lose limbs RAW, even in old D&D, such as Vorpal Swords. Otherwise Regeneration spells wouldn't have been a thing since time immemorial.
@Manic Modron: Welcome to bringing nuance or entertaining hypotheticals when people are in the middle of shitting on wokesters at the RPG Site. ;)
I'm always about context of setting. One of the difficult things about D&D is that it's just a set of rules where setting is an amorphous thing because everyone has their own take and the modern conception *seems* to be anything where rules exist for it is presumed to be possible in the game. This is why traditional settings of the earlier settings have become a freakshow.
*THAT* said... we can debate all day about how being a para/quadriplegic could be resolved in a variety of ways in the D&D rules (whatever edition you choose). But we all know damn well that the only reason the Combat Wheelchair exists is for virtue signalling.
As an aside, I don't have a problem with wheelchair bound figures. Some systems have disadvantages where you can be wheelchair bound, (Savage Worlds) but they should be setting appropriate. Having the option for such a figure isn't bad. But in context of D&D-play typical to most of us, it's stupid.
Let's not forget the stats on the Combat Wheelchair would mean everyone would be using one. Immunity from rough terrain penalties? That would be awesome to go through the Swamp of Sorrow. Just roll on through!
DM: "The orc shaman casts Heat Metal on you then pushes you down the stairs."
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 24, 2023, 10:05:40 AM
DM: "The orc shaman casts Heat Metal on you then pushes you down the stairs."
Well you'd take damage from the Heat Metal (assuming your chair is metal)... but the stairs? I think by the rules of the Combat Wheelchair that would count as rugged terrain...
LOL I'm telling you - Combat Wheelchairs are awesome.
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
There's nothing in D&D RAW about Cure spells fixing anything other than HP.
So? Where in the rules does it state the your back being injured by an attack is not HP damage? Are you REALLY this unfamiliar with "D&D" damage system or are you trolling?
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
There's nothing in D&D RAW about Cure spells fixing anything other than HP.
So? Where in the rules does it state the your back being injured by an attack is not HP damage? Are you REALLY this unfamiliar with "D&D" damage system or are you trolling?
So, we're "Talking RAW per D&D". But you get to insert your own personal interpretation of WTF the rules may or may not mean if the rules don't
specifically state that they don't mean the unwritten (i.e. NOT "RAW") interpretation that you're inserting into them?
Jeeses fucking Christ on a combat wheelchair!
(https://cdn.openart.ai/stable_diffusion/7cb0d8c65b411950dd49a57c241abf650b2ffe04_2000x2000.webp)
If we're talking about some type of status effect or condition beyond HP (such as "you're unable to walk due to a back injury") that is
by definition NOT HP Damage.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMHhvNXc5a2dnZ3p4czZlYXltYzBhbDZydGQwZWJqdjJtbDd6ajFreiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/WQWUudY0YUkda/giphy.gif)
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 11:15:39 AM
So, we're "Talking RAW per D&D".
No, we are talking every possible unpublished house rule. :o So, back to the unanswered question,
"Are you REALLY this unfamiliar with "D&D" damage system or are you trolling?"
D&D is abstract and not the best system for these types of lasting injuries. Physical disabilities are better represented and supported in a system such as GURPS, where limbs can be crippled, and there is mechanical support in the form of disadvantages for various disabilities.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 24, 2023, 11:30:20 AM
D&D is abstract and not the best system for these types of lasting injuries. Physical disabilities are better represented and supported in a system such as GURPS, where limbs can be crippled, and there is mechanical support in the form of disadvantages for various disabilities.
Runequest was similar. You could disable legs, arms, etc.
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 11:15:39 AM
So, we're "Talking RAW per D&D".
No, we are talking every possible unpublished house rule. :o
They why did you say that "Talking RAW per D&D" before my post?
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 09:06:25 AM
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 09:25:52 PM
Depends on how a game deals with injuries, doesn't it?
Nope. Talking RAW per D&D. NOT house rules which can be infinite in variety. BAD counter argument
Quote
"Are you REALLY this unfamiliar with "D&D" damage system or are you trolling?"
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
So, back to the unanswered question...
"So, we're "Talking RAW per D&D". But you get to insert your own personal interpretation of WTF the rules may or may not mean if the rules don't specifically state that they don't mean the unwritten (i.e. NOT "RAW") interpretation that you're inserting into them?"
Or are you too much of an imbecile to understand the difference between rules as written and your own unwritten interpretation of the rules?
Quote from: Manic Modron on August 23, 2023, 11:10:18 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 23, 2023, 10:28:11 PM
Dude this isn't settings. This isn't rules. This is IGNORING basic humanity wants and desires. No one wants to roleplay as a cripple. NO ONE.
And yet, I still did and had fun with it for a good few years of gaming. I know one more person in my social group that plays characters with similar issues to him because he enjoys overcoming his obstacles in a heroic setting, but that is an anecdote that will probably get me called a liar here because no one could EVER like something that seems kind of odd to someone else.
QuoteNo one wants to roleplay as an obese gasbag who blows puss out of boils on their face.
Do you actually believe that people are divided into people who can walk normally and medical disasters that can't wipe their own ass? Nothing in between? You either aren't in a chair or you have to shit in a bag and you can't piss except through a tube? No, don't bother answering that, I can't see where the opinion of somebody who resorts to "retarted mongoloid" as an insult could possibly matter.
Into the ignore box with you.
the feeling is likewise, you don't know the rules for 5E for fixing the situation in the first place. In your setting for decades, you've never had adventurers rise to the point of national importance, oh that must be a fun campaign. Pro Tip son, players like to become very important to the game world, let them become important on ocassion you won't end up looking for a new player every month to keep you at 4 players.
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
I'll take a shot, I guess.
Unless its hp damage, cure wound spells won't fix it, because by raw that's what it restores. As to what that means in practice, I guess people have different conceptualizations of hp. To some degree I like to think physical toughness and damage plays a significant part in what hp is, since meat points/physical effect endurance makes more sense with fall damage, poison damage, and healing from unconsciousness/being downed come into play. Still, since hp recovers on a long rest or over time depending on edition, one might suspect that unless PCs are super special in the game lore, if an injury is with you long term despite natural healing it's more than just hp damage.
That and paralysis in 5e is a status effect that is fixed by lesser restoration and the like. (Lay on Hands can potentially fix paralysis from a poison or disease, I suppose, as a fringe case.)
Quote from: KindaMeh on August 24, 2023, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
Oh that is just a start. Now look at all the monsters in the game, where they have a special effect and the monster manual says: Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration, Heal etc removes the effect. Those monster attacks aren't listed under the spells as well.
I'll take a shot, I guess.
Unless its hp damage, cure wound spells won't fix it, because by raw that's what it restores. As to what that means in practice, I guess people have different conceptualizations of hp. To some degree I like to think physical toughness and damage plays a significant part in what hp is, since meat points/physical effect endurance makes more sense with fall damage, poison damage, and healing from unconsciousness/being downed come into play. Still, since hp recovers on a long rest or over time depending on edition, one might suspect that unless PCs are super special in the game lore, if an injury is with you long term despite natural healing it's more than just hp damage.
That and paralysis in 5e is a status effect that is fixed by lesser restoration and the like. (Lay on Hands can potentially fix paralysis from a poison or disease, I suppose, as a fringe case.)
There are a ton of effects caused by monsters that the restorations fixed and they are not listed in the PHB, hell they never were for prior editions either. Just take the descriptions of the spells as is and use them as written.
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
I will as soon as you quote the part of the RAW that says that Cure spells cure anything other HP, or that the rules not explicitly stating that something is NOT the case, means that you can insert that thing into the rules and treated it as RAW despite not being written anywhere in the rules.
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
I will as soon as you quote the part of the RAW that says that Cure spells cure anything other HP, or that the rules not explicitly stating that something is NOT the case, means that you can insert that thing into the rules and treated it as RAW despite not being written anywhere in the rules.
Do you mean cure wounds didn't cure my dragon bards Gold Dragon Herpes?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 24, 2023, 03:02:11 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
I will as soon as you quote the part of the RAW that says that Cure spells cure anything other HP, or that the rules not explicitly stating that something is NOT the case, means that you can insert that thing into the rules and treated it as RAW despite not being written anywhere in the rules.
Do you mean cure wounds didn't cure my dragon bards Gold Dragon Herpes?
It did, but only if you were playing by Scooter's RAW (herpes sores). :P
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
I will as soon as you quote the part of the RAW that says that Cure spells cure anything other HP, or that the rules not explicitly stating that something is NOT the case, means that you can insert that thing into the rules and treated it as RAW despite not being written anywhere in the rules.
Cool, so there is no such rule about legs not being healed by a cure spell. Sorry m0r0n but I can't prove a negative. Only the brainless demand such
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 03:34:48 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Familiar enough to know that status effects/conditions are not HP, and that Cure spells don't restore status effects.
Really? So what is the RAW on "status effects/conditions" that cause legs to be paralyzed and not fixable by cure spells. Please quote. Maybe I missed it in the RAW. Very possible.
I will as soon as you quote the part of the RAW that says that Cure spells cure anything other HP, or that the rules not explicitly stating that something is NOT the case, means that you can insert that thing into the rules and treated it as RAW despite not being written anywhere in the rules.
Cool, so there is no such rule about legs not being healed by a cure spell. Sorry m0r0n but I can't prove a negative. Only the brainless demand such
I know, which is why you demanded that I proved a negative around a dozen posts ago...
Quote from: Scooter on August 24, 2023, 10:39:21 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 24, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
There's nothing in D&D RAW about Cure spells fixing anything other than HP.
So? Where in the rules does it state the your back being injured by an attack is not HP damage? Are you REALLY this unfamiliar with "D&D" damage system or are you trolling?
...cuz only the brainless demand such a thing. ;)
Quote from: Scooter on August 23, 2023, 09:00:34 PM
These mini's show the characters WITH legs. Any cure spell would restore use
These minis are amputeephobic. Whoever created them is clearly a bigot.
Quote from: DocJones on August 25, 2023, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: Scooter on August 23, 2023, 09:00:34 PM
These mini's show the characters WITH legs. Any cure spell would restore use
These minis are amputeephobic. Whoever created them is clearly a bigot.
Ah! That's it. :D
Quote from: tenbones on August 24, 2023, 09:47:34 AM
I'm always about context of setting. One of the difficult things about D&D is that it's just a set of rules where setting is an amorphous thing because everyone has their own take and the modern conception *seems* to be anything where rules exist for it is presumed to be possible in the game. This is why traditional settings of the earlier settings have become a freakshow.
*THAT* said... we can debate all day about how being a para/quadriplegic could be resolved in a variety of ways in the D&D rules (whatever edition you choose). But we all know damn well that the only reason the Combat Wheelchair exists is for virtue signalling.
As an aside, I don't have a problem with wheelchair bound figures. Some systems have disadvantages where you can be wheelchair bound, (Savage Worlds) but they should be setting appropriate. Having the option for such a figure isn't bad. But in context of D&D-play typical to most of us, it's stupid.
Let's not forget the stats on the Combat Wheelchair would mean everyone would be using one. Immunity from rough terrain penalties? That would be awesome to go through the Swamp of Sorrow. Just roll on through!
I'm not familiar with the rules regarding Combat Wheelchairs, but it sounds amusing. If applied to the Pathfinder system, I'm assuming that you'd be immune to Trip.
The very first thing that will happen is some creature, probably a gnoll or an orc, will topple your chair with a polearm and murder you while you're helpless on the ground. This is so obvious that even writing this out is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who reads it.
You won't even survive long enough to reach the even more obvious and idiotic problems of stairs, difficult or literally any natural terrain, or the other 99.99% of a fantasy setting that isn't designed to be accessible. Like do these idiots not think about the extensive amount of infrastructure design that goes into creating wheelchair accessible locations on a wide scale? This shit doesn't happen by accident.
Have you ever tried to push a wheelchair, or even a handcart, through a swamp? Over rocks? Ever tried to climb a mountain with one? Gone exploring in a cave?
Why is it that all of this shit occurs to me the instant I see something like this, but these supposed professionals make shit like this with a straight face? I don't even have a degree in creative writing, let alone anything actually useful.
Quote from: JeremyR on August 21, 2023, 09:18:24 PM
There are cultures around being disabled, where they reject cures to that disability, because that disability forms part of their lifestyle.
That seems to be mostly a modern phenomenon. I don't know of any examples from before the 20th century, let alone the middle ages on which so many fantasy worlds are based. Quite the contrary - people walked across entire continents on pilgrimages in the hopes of a cure at some holy springs etc.
As well as a modern thing, it seems to be a Western thing. I don't know of any stories of some Pashtun guy saying, "I identify as an amputee... you know what, I'll just go and steal that mullah's hookah, then they'll cut my right hand off and all will be good in the world for me."
Same with mental stuff. I don't know of examples of medieval people hoping their child would grow up to be the village idiot, or of Indians or Kenyans or whoever going from one psychiatrist to another until they got their ADHD diagnosis.
Only modern Westerners actually
want to be physically or mentally disabled.
Quote from: Domina on August 27, 2023, 12:21:12 AM
The very first thing that will happen is some creature, probably a gnoll or an orc, will topple your chair with a polearm and murder you while you're helpless on the ground. This is so obvious that even writing this out is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who reads it.
You won't even survive long enough to reach the even more obvious and idiotic problems of stairs, difficult or literally any natural terrain, or the other 99.99% of a fantasy setting that isn't designed to be accessible. Like do these idiots not think about the extensive amount of infrastructure design that goes into creating wheelchair accessible locations on a wide scale? This shit doesn't happen by accident.
Have you ever tried to push a wheelchair, or even a handcart, through a swamp? Over rocks? Ever tried to climb a mountain with one? Gone exploring in a cave?
Why is it that all of this shit occurs to me the instant I see something like this, but these supposed professionals make shit like this with a straight face? I don't even have a degree in creative writing, let alone anything actually useful.
It happens because making a wheelchair a combat advantage "empowers" disabled characters. Unfortunately, a lot of the creative industry is captured by leftist ideology. 60 years ago, it was about racial struggle and sexual liberation. Nowadays, it's about whatever is part of the LGBT agenda. Since the disabled are part of that group, the writers have to virtue signal for them.
There's a strong chance that the upcoming D&D 5.5E will remove racial stat bonuses because of muh racism, for example. That's still part of the virtue signaling.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on August 27, 2023, 12:36:13 AM
Quote from: JeremyR on August 21, 2023, 09:18:24 PM
There are cultures around being disabled, where they reject cures to that disability, because that disability forms part of their lifestyle.
That seems to be mostly a modern phenomenon. I don't know of any examples from before the 20th century, let alone the middle ages on which so many fantasy worlds are based. Quite the contrary - people walked across entire continents on pilgrimages in the hopes of a cure at some holy springs etc.
As well as a modern thing, it seems to be a Western thing. I don't know of any stories of some Pashtun guy saying, "I identify as an amputee... you know what, I'll just go and steal that mullah's hookah, then they'll cut my right hand off and all will be good in the world for me."
Same with mental stuff. I don't know of examples of medieval people hoping their child would grow up to be the village idiot, or of Indians or Kenyans or whoever going from one psychiatrist to another until they got their ADHD diagnosis.
Only modern Westerners actually want to be physically or mentally disabled.
Pretty much. Most of this is related to Body Integrity Identity Disorder. This mental illness probably exists outside of the West, but I would assume non-Western cultures either confine these people to something like a sanitarium or they simply ignore them.
It's like how the non-West has transgender people, but they don't typically put them on a pedestal or put them into prominent government positions.