Pendragon

jswa · October 09, 2008, 12:09:50 AM

So I finally looked into Pendragon. It looks like it could be a lot of fun, so I plugged it into Amazon.com...

Some of the entries were a little pricey. Used and New from $50. And there are five editions.

What are the differences between the editions? And which do you think is best?

RPGPundit · October 09, 2008, 01:24:02 AM

Without a doubt, the latest (5th) edition is the best.
You should definitely get the Great Pendragon Campaign book too, if you can.

RPGPundit

FASERIP · October 09, 2008, 01:50:19 AM

I have the 5th edition. It's an excellent game. Previous editions had more character options, along with a magic system. 5e did away with most of that for genre reasons: It's about knights. Le Morte d'Arthur is about knights.

If you want the extra stuff, 4e is probably the way to go. And mechanically, all of the editions are fairly close, from what I understand.

The GPC was available from Lulu for a while... it's definitely worth finding a copy. I'm sure there are still a few at various gaming stores. If you're forced to go the online route, you might get robbed.

Narf the Mouse · October 09, 2008, 02:35:18 AM

Never buy from sellers with less than a 95% rating.

It's not foolproof, but it's worked for me so far.

droog · October 09, 2008, 02:46:36 AM

I hate that 5th ed cover, but none of the others are much good either (with the notable exception of 1st ed).

4th ed is a pretty comprehensive look at the whole shebang. 5th ed, from all accounts, is better organised. One of those is probably your best bet.

If you can't get hold of The Great PD Campaign, consider The Boy King, which has quite enough material to keep you going for years.

stone · October 09, 2008, 08:18:38 AM

I am very fond of the 4th ed. Book that I have - lots of stuff crammed into a big book, including the rules for magicians and women characters. (Which means the GM has to have the balls to tell players they can't play those things, because, as stated, a Pendragon campaign full of women and magicians doesn't work.)

But I really like the lots of stuff in one book approach to role-playing books, so I never went out and got 5th.

Anyway, I've run a couple of campaigns and had quite a bit of fun with it.

Greg

Ian Absentia · October 09, 2008, 10:04:56 AM

For someone stepping into the game for the first time, I feel the 5th edition is the best. It's the best organised, it has the most focused scope. It's probably the easiest edition to wrap your arms around.

The 4th edition is very comprehensive, but almost too much so, and it presents a cluttered, steep learning curve for the new player. We can discuss the magic system, too, but that's a bit controversial and will probably just muddy the waters for now.

!i!

wulfgar · October 09, 2008, 10:13:03 AM

I looked into Pendragon several months back. I still haven't picked up a copy (it's hard to find a decent price for the new version, as you've said), but here's some very helpful information I got from someone over on the ODD74 board about the game:

Quote1st edition is the purest (like OD&D three books). It comes in a box with the Player's Guide, DameMaster's Guide, a map of England, and a NPC/villain pullout. The characters are low power, there is no glory inflation. The mechanism for resolving huge battles is quick, simple, bloody and brilliant. It has everything you need to play. There are some mechanisms that Greg Stafford put in that are clumsy and don't work as well, like his literacy and custom rules, plus his unfortunate inclusion of a separate Joust skill, which really comes under the Lance skill. The campaign given starts just before the battle of St Alban's, and a few years before Uther sees Ygraine and lusts after her, thus ripping apart the kingdom and engenddering Arthur. This is my favourite version.

2nd edition is essentially a reprint of 1st edition, with a packaging change. I think some things were left out

3rd edition revamps the game. It changes the skills a bit, deleting some, adding others, but basically streamlining them. This is good. In almost every single way it is as good or better than 1st edition. BUT... It also starts the STATS and Glory inflation. Characters now start a bit better, a bit stronger, do more damage, are better outfitted, gain Glory faster. Munchkins can now start to apply. The mass Battle rules get so convoluted that you get a brain aneurism trying to figure them out. The campaign now starts 35 years later, in the middle of Arthur's reign, just as Lancelot starts to make his mark. This is Brumbar's favourite version

4th edition is Pendragon meets TETSNBM. It boosts characters even more, and adds in Magic rules (explicitly to the contrary intention of Mr Stafford). D&D players tend to like it, but I consider it an abomination on the face of the earth.

5th edition is Greg's rewrite after he reacquired the rights to the game. It is basically a 3rd edition reprint, but set by default in Uther's reign about 15 years before Arthur's birth. I haven't bought it because I have 1st and 3rd editions and they work great, but 5th would be my recommendation to start out. I think you might enjoy 4th, but I don't think it has the right Pendragon spirit.

I play 3rd edition, with 1st edition mass battle rules and 1st edition campaign timeline.

My recommendation is in this order:
5th edition
3rd edition
1st edition
4th edition

On to expansions/supplements - experienced Pendragon GM's need none, but if you have never GM'd, you need help

5th edition needs the Great Pendragon Campaign, and nothing else. This gives you a 100-yr campaign with suggested adventures, and all the NPC's - invaluable.

All supplements will work with 3rd edition, even the 1st edition ones with some work. The two best are Knights Adventurous, and The Boy King. Knights Adventurous expands the playing field - characters no longer have to be Christian knights from Salisbury. It introduces Pagan, Wotanic and Jewish characters, Saxons, Northmen, French, Welsh, Irish. The Boy King is the 3rd edition equivalent of the Great Pendragon Campaign, and I use it a lot. You can now play characters from any era, not just the year 531.

First edition can be played witrh no supplements, but I recommend The Pendragon Campaign and the Nobles book, which introduces economics and alternate glory systems.

Any of the scenarios/adventures can be used with any edition - some conversion may be required. I like The Adventure of the Circle of Gold (a never-ending repeatable quest) and Savage Mountains (the Cambrian/Welsh expansion)

QuotePendragon is a skills-based system, but Glory is a bit like experience in that every 1000 Glory you can add 1 pt to any Personality Trait, Statistic, Passion or Skill, and this point can violate normal maximums. In Pendragon 1st edition you start with between 100 and 150 Glory, and gain from about 50-200 per year, depending upon how your year went and what adventures you had. Major Battles, though deadly, could give you 300-900 Glory.

In 3rd and subsequent editions, you start play with 1000 Glory, and can easily gain 300-500 Glory per year if you 'game the game'. Glory is also a bit like fame/social status - 8000 Glory will get you into the Round Table. A knight with 2500 Glory would be in command if he was with knights of 1500 and 1200 Glory.

1st edition you are a knight - better than anybody else who is not a knight, but a decidedly ordinary knight. In 3rd and 5th edition you are a good knight with prospects. In 4th edition you can dream of being as good as Gawaine or Tristram

Think of 3rd edition as Supplement 1 - Greyhawk

QuoteGreg Stafford (former CEO of Chaosium, creator of Runequest) considers Pendragon to be his finest achievement. When he was given the opportunity to do the definitive version, he came up with 5th edition. 5th edition is basically 3rd edition rules set in 1st edition campaign and timeline, with everything cleaned up as best he could.

For those looking at buying now, it should be their first choice. Since I have all the 1st and 3rd edition books, I am not going to go out and buy 5th edition, although maybe I should ...

Balbinus · October 09, 2008, 03:32:31 PM

As others have said, fourth has more in it, fifth is far better organised.

I sold my copy of fourth and kept fifth, it's just far easier to use at the table. I bought a pdf copy of fourth so that when I wanted to check some of the wider stuff in it I still had access to it.

FASERIP · October 09, 2008, 09:46:12 PM

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;255071Never buy from sellers with less than a 95% rating.

It's not foolproof, but it's worked for me so far.

Definitely sound advice.

I wasn't clear when I said "you'll get robbed." I should have said gouged. I was talking about re-sellers and the overpriced 'collectibles' market, rather than fraud.

Narf the Mouse · October 09, 2008, 09:47:40 PM

Ah, that makes sense.

FASERIP · October 10, 2008, 08:29:57 AM

Hey Everybody,

At the moment, two sellers on Amazon have GPC at $70. It's a wonderful book, but I'm not crazy about it at the price for two reasons: I haven't run it yet (I've only played in two Pendragon one-shots), and the stats for the main characters are sold separately as a pdf on drivethru.

At that price, I would certainly recommend it to Pendragon fans who know what they're getting into, however.

I would add this: GPC or not, the stats on drivethru are a very inexpensive way to expand your Arthurian game. It was half-price--- $2.50 American or something when I bought it. That's a cup of coffee.

MoonHunter · October 10, 2008, 01:49:31 PM

When we play, we still play first ed. We also invested a lot of time and effort into study of Arthurian legend and history, so we knew most of the material that was in the source books - thus first ed +knowledge works really well.

To be honest, we tend to ignore the generational aspect and center play in and around the middle of Arthur's reign. We have done a little pre-Arthur play and the post Arthur (with a very post appoc feeling) play as well.

However, I have to echo the comments about 4th and 5th that everyone has said. So which edition is a matter of personal taste and whom you plan on playing it with. Hard copy the one you want, pdf the one you don't.

Claudius · October 10, 2008, 03:12:50 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;255062Without a doubt, the latest (5th) edition is the best.
You should definitely get the Great Pendragon Campaign book too, if you can.

RPGPundit

Why do you think that the 5th edition is the best? As far as I know, the differences among the various editions of Pendragon are minimal.

This is an open question for anybody who wants to answer.

Ian Absentia · October 10, 2008, 03:49:53 PM

As I stated up-thread, the combination of improved organisation and focused scope in 5th ed. make for both the most up-to-date and most newby-accessible version of the game. Yes, if you're an old hand at the game with older editions of the game at your disposal, you can pull out pretty much all of the 5th ed. info, but this edition has done the work for you.

!i!