Not knocking your preferences SMC, I'd personally rather have teeth pulled than make a character using Champions/Hero system, just dont see it's crunchieness as wargame-related (I also play wargames)

And over half the people I game with are girls, so that's no nevermind to me.

Quote from: David Johansen;687618

Champions is a bit math heavy but it does have active defenses.

"A bit".

Quote from: sylvermoonkitten;687616Let me.explain. in dnd and champions combat is a war game, a comparison of numbers. We do sword and board, Champions at least 1-5 is just a number check. Combat is not realistic.

If you get a chance, you might want to look over the marital arts expansions for Champions - they can get pretty interesting with the various options for attack and defense and how they change your to hit and attack scores.

That said, there's a fair bit of similarity between Champions OCV/DCV when compared to D20's Attack bonus vs AC.

Meh...Champions math is frequently simpler than GURPS math and I generally wouldn't consider GURPS math heavy.  But then I play Rolemaster Standard System and Chivalry and Sorcery and use GURPS Vehicles without a computer so I guess it's relative.

Champions is a very simple game at heart.  It gets drowned in the power modifiers too often and sadly as with GURPS 4e a clean build is a suboptimal build but that's really more an issue of being a mature game that's been added to for too many years.

But then I liked Champions 6e.

Yes seen Champs, and play it, if forced. Superworld can be seen as champs lite, with Role Playing. As for the martial systems for Hero, not too impressed. Might as well play Palladiums Ninjas and superspies, lol.
I think the wargame cruchiness is fine, if that is how you see things. We, I , dont. The Brp systems can be adapted by and to anything. Hubby has explained this is an old argument, but not for me.  
Hubby says most GMs are just followes of a published
Good GM add to the adventure.
Better GMs build worlds around an adventure.
Great GM known they can drop any adventure into anything.
Most GMs are mediocre at best, sadly. ( i.gmed only three yimes, my first was last year I ran Other Suns for Hubby bday , a brp horror, and a Nighlife game)
Most GMs and players are zombie following the herd, like zombies defending things with venom.
Unlikemost systems BRP derived can adapt just about anything.

but back to ElfQuest, the game world evolved. The Castle is gone taking many elves with it. Those left have a complete world, two moons. In iur world there us life on the moons, magic has exploded.
The Pini world is gone.
Finally, sorry for any typos etc, for some reason can expand the screen on phone till after I post, and well going vack is time consuming. Lol, with kids, grandkids, house, hubby and family, well...I think most you are smart enough to understand if not sympathize.

I dont if I posted here. Hubby is a grognard playing since 79. He has 1st and 2nd right Next to Brp, 3rd is bottom shelf stuff. Fourth we use as door stops or to hold windows open. Lol.
Dnd was.my first game. Then I went be a renfaire, a sca event, and dagohir. I asked the gm why I couldnt do shield blocks, parries etc. When I met hubby I didnt want to game, it bored me, He was running BRP heavily influenced by RQ3. I was hooked. It was what gaming should have been. We pull out dnd somtimes, esp eith newbies to group.
Then corrupt them to our version of Classic Fantasy by BRP.
But hubby even runs 1st Chivalry.and Sorcery. Many of our older players come down.from ohio and michigan and they are mostly from his old CoC and FasaTrek groups.
Most Dnders are zombies, and with affection I love teasing them. But the two main systems are pretty much weak tea, for me.

Quote from: sylvermoonkitten;687726As for the martial systems for Hero, not too impressed. Might as well play Palladiums Ninjas and superspies, lol.

ouch