Yes well it was magically locked...so who knows, Ian.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;466490That's a retarded decision. Just don't acknowledge it.

I agree with Pseudo on this one.

Your GM is being a douchebag.

Depends on the full circumstance doesn't it.

So if you were official guests in the castle and one night you decided to get up and start breaking down locked doors then that isn't very paladinish even if you believed that the hosts might be evil in some way (but obviously have no hard evidence cos if you had that you would be in your rights to challenge them to give up their evil acts etc etc ...)

If you had entered the castle searching for a demon or whatever then breaking down every door is fair game.

Think of the police as a perfect example. If the police have a warrant and just cause they are able to break into a house and search it. If you invite a policeman into your house even if he thinks you might have 30 Chinese guys hidden in your cellar he is not allowed to kick the door in and go looking for them.

Now that you've given more information, the ruling sounds ridiculous. Unless there were starving widows and orphans slaughtered by the bashing of said magical barrier & door, it's a stupid ruling. I'd ignore it or just walk. Life's too short to put up with bad games -- yes, even with friends.

Quote from: jibbajibba;466535Think of the police as a perfect example. If the police have a warrant and just cause they are able to break into a house and search it. If you invite a policeman into your house even if he thinks you might have 30 Chinese guys hidden in your cellar he is not allowed to kick the door in and go looking for them.

Damn you! Now I want to play DCI Gene Hunt as a Paladin!

Quote from: Ian Warner;466542Damn you! Now I want to play DCI Gene Hunt as a Paladin!

How...  I'm trying (and failing) to see him as LG.  LE maybe, but LG?

Your gm is a tard.  If he insists on this, make your character all about getting redemption.  Refuse to do anything else that doesn't further that goal.  Two can play at being assholes.

Quote from: Nightfall;466504Paws,

Don't worry, I'm running after he's finished running Second Darkness. TRUST ME. I will have my vengeance.

...

Girdle of Femininity / Masculinity FTW. Dip into your old AD&D 1st ed DMG.

Quote from: jibbajibba;466535Depends on the full circumstance doesn't it.

...

No, it really doesn't. Stand back and look at this one from a reasonable distance. There is passably reasonable moral relativity, and then there is full-on bullshit. Stripping a paladin of his paladinhood for kicking down a door to face hostile demons - is bullshit. I don't care if he has the most lawful goodly god in the game. You see demons, there is a door in the way, you kick it down. Simples.

Quote from: sekkan;466552How...  I'm trying (and failing) to see him as LG.  LE maybe, but LG?

That's the problem with alignment its subjective.

I'm sure there are right wing Brits (and others) out there who consider beating the shit out of a supect untill he talks the hight of the pursuit of justice

Quote from: Nightfall;466484After we (the PCs) transverse much of Tanglebriar, we end up near/at the elven fortification of Thorn's End. There we see a HUGE display of fiendish/demonic might in the form of the following; 12 fiendish satyrs, 3 hezoru demons, 3 vrocks, 12 babaus, and one very angry looking Nalfreshee. Said demon then parlays with us. Hasini, (my paladin and STRONG hater of all things demonic) is torn between fighting to the death (mostly hers she knows) and getting the party inside. She decides to let our NPC bard who has guided us here to some of the talking. It ends up that we agree to their terms, (much to Hasini's chargin.) We then find out the only way the demons will 'trust us" is to let our NPC bard stay with them. We manage to make to the doors where Thorn's End has been specially warded against demons. As we turn around to bid farewell to Quidella(sp) our NPC bard, she turns out to be a SUCCUBUS that's in charge of this place. Naturally Hasini rages and threatens to put the succubus' head on a pike. In any case we, the PCs enter. We find the place in disarray, as apparently the Winter Council has been disbanded but the Council members are still in this place. We manage to talk to three of the elves in charge. The third one, a druid by the name of Andiril, tells us that before he can accept attending this emergency meeting of the council, we need to kill some Vrocks for him. Hasini is pretty darn happy with this deal and readily agrees. The fight against the Vrocks goes well (Hasini killing three of the four there with her 4 smite evils she's got) until the remaining Vrock screech. This alerts the rest of demons and suddenly 4 babaus show up. This is steadily followed by more, but Hasini isn't worried JUST yet. (Her cold iron falchion along with her high strength score AND bonded weapon abilities make it so that she's doing a mininum of 15 points of damage per swing along with it being holy and evil outsider bane.) Then 3 more vrocks show up. This does cause Hasini to pause but she fights on along side our Battle Oracle who has problems with the vrocks (his weapon isn't good aligned BUT is a +3 weapon so it's okay against the Babaus.) We manage to head back...and then after all that, convince the druid guy to join in. This just leaves the elven wizard guy, Hallin to join us...and that's where I lose my paladinhood.

I'd have killed the succubus - you deserved to lose paladinhood by not fighting the evil that you knew was there.

Quote from: Nightfall;466484So moral of the story, go ahead and trust a succubus. But god help you if you decide to break an arcane locked door.

Fighters kick doors down. Paladins stand back and order fighters to kick doors down. Paladins are too good to kick doors down.

Ok so what I am getting from this is, You kicked down a door, that had to be of good alignment and you preceded to beat the shit out of the door and you got an alignment shift.....let me guess you went to attack the darkness next didnt you....it was a good darkness too...

Quote from: Omnifray;466557No, it really doesn't. Stand back and look at this one from a reasonable distance. There is passably reasonable moral relativity, and then there is full-on bullshit. Stripping a paladin of his paladinhood for kicking down a door to face hostile demons - is bullshit. I don't care if he has the most lawful goodly god in the game. You see demons, there is a door in the way, you kick it down. Simples.

No read his post.

They are in some sort of hall place where there are these elves the demons have been defeated although more may be present. To be honest the summary of play is tricky to follw and NF seems to take a 5 year old's joy in telling us how may demons she slew and how much damage her cold iron bonded longsword can do.

I understand that there was no direct attack from demons and no imminent risk although the party have been tricked by a succubus in the past. There was some talk about a search for an elven wizard but it was a bit garbled.

My point is if you are in direct pursuit of a demon then kicking down a magic door is fine. If your pursuit leads you to be invited into the wizard's house whilst he seaches the ether for portents, then going though his pockets whilst he is in a magical trance (or indeed kicking down doors in his house) is not acceptable.

If NF can explain the situation without superfulous description then maybe we can look at this case in a more rational light.

Quote from: jibbajibba;466570No read his post.

They are in some sort of hall place where there are these elves the demons have been defeated although more may be present. To be honest the summary of play is tricky to follw and NF seems to take a 5 year old's joy in telling us how may demons she slew and how much damage her cold iron bonded longsword can do.

I understand that there was no direct attack from demons and no imminent risk although the party have been tricked by a succubus in the past. There was some talk about a search for an elven wizard but it was a bit garbled.

My point is if you are in direct pursuit of a demon then kicking down a magic door is fine. If your pursuit leads you to be invited into the wizard's house whilst he seaches the ether for portents, then going though his pockets whilst he is in a magical trance (or indeed kicking down doors in his house) is not acceptable.

If NF can explain the situation without superfulous description then maybe we can look at this case in a more rational light.

You are in some place which has been infested with demons.

Lots of them. Demons in physical form. Hiding under the tables, prodding you with umbrellas, pooing on the carpet.

There are bound to be more of them around!!!

And you are a PALADIN

KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL

Seems pretty clear to me

Anyway, look, it's Dungeons & Dragons (or close enough). You're in a dungeon. You see a door. You kick it down. END OF!!!