Your status as a paladin.

Yep. You heard me right. Apparently breaking MAGICALLY sealed doors in places that aren't evil is a chaotic act. EVEN THOUGH, it wasn't like I was a) going to steal the money there-in; b) trying to kill anything BUT the demons (who my paladin swore to kill BECAUSE of being tricked by the Bard Succubus) and c) Not disobeying any direct commands.

So yeah...today NF's paladin isn't a paladin. I always figured if I lose it, it would be because I decided to kill demons BEFORE saving the rest of the party.

Apparently not.

Oh and if you want to hear MORE about our adventures in Second Darkness...I'll continue that the next posting on this thread.

Hint: Pathfinderize your GM and get a better one.

Phantom,

I can't. Mostly because we're about 5/6th of the way through AND we do have a druid that can cast atonement. Changing up DMs isn't in the cards JUST yet.

Maybe after we finish...but if we do, I doubt I'll play a Paladin again when he runs. Maybe.

Anyway here's the deal;

After we (the PCs) transverse much of Tanglebriar, we end up near/at the elven fortification of Thorn's End. There we see a HUGE display of fiendish/demonic might in the form of the following; 12 fiendish satyrs, 3 hezoru demons, 3 vrocks, 12 babaus, and one very angry looking Nalfreshee. Said demon then parlays with us. Hasini, (my paladin and STRONG hater of all things demonic) is torn between fighting to the death (mostly hers she knows) and getting the party inside. She decides to let our NPC bard who has guided us here to some of the talking. It ends up that we agree to their terms, (much to Hasini's chargin.) We then find out the only way the demons will 'trust us" is to let our NPC bard stay with them. We manage to make to the doors where Thorn's End has been specially warded against demons. As we turn around to bid farewell to Quidella(sp) our NPC bard, she turns out to be a SUCCUBUS that's in charge of this place. Naturally Hasini rages and threatens to put the succubus' head on a pike. In any case we, the PCs enter. We find the place in disarray, as apparently the Winter Council has been disbanded but the Council members are still in this place. We manage to talk to three of the elves in charge. The third one, a druid by the name of Andiril, tells us that before he can accept attending this emergency meeting of the council, we need to kill some Vrocks for him. Hasini is pretty darn happy with this deal and readily agrees. The fight against the Vrocks goes well (Hasini killing three of the four there with her 4 smite evils she's got) until the remaining Vrock screech. This alerts the rest of demons and suddenly 4 babaus show up. This is steadily followed by more, but Hasini isn't worried JUST yet. (Her cold iron falchion along with her high strength score AND bonded weapon abilities make it so that she's doing a mininum of 15 points of damage per swing along with it being holy and evil outsider bane.) Then 3 more vrocks show up. This does cause Hasini to pause but she fights on along side our Battle Oracle who has problems with the vrocks (his weapon isn't good aligned BUT is a +3 weapon so it's okay against the Babaus.) We manage to head back...and then after all that, convince the druid guy to join in. This just leaves the elven wizard guy, Hallin to join us...and that's where I lose my paladinhood.

So moral of the story, go ahead and trust a succubus. But god help you if you decide to break an arcane locked door.

Quote from: Nightfall;466478Your status as a paladin.

Yep. You heard me right. Apparently breaking MAGICALLY sealed doors in places that aren't evil is a chaotic act. EVEN THOUGH, it wasn't like I was a) going to steal the money there-in; b) trying to kill anything BUT the demons (who my paladin swore to kill BECAUSE of being tricked by the Bard Succubus) and c) Not disobeying any direct commands.

So yeah...today NF's paladin isn't a paladin. I always figured if I lose it, it would be because I decided to kill demons BEFORE saving the rest of the party.

That doesn't sound right. Your GM is actually saying your Paladin is now NG or CG? ... Because nothing short of an alignment change can make you lose your status. Unless you are running some kind of variant games, Paladins lose their status for committing EVIL acts, not chaotic ones. "You broke down a door, you are no longer Lawful," sounds questionable to me.

lol

Great shit! I love your GM!

One time I GMed for a paladin who, along with the rest of the party, got duped into attacking a monastery of their own god. When the guy they went with killed everyone there instead of just stealing their magic item, the party paladin (and two clerics) lost their powers because they weren't wise enough to foresee it happening. They were pissed.

Quote from: pawsplay;466485That doesn't sound right. Your GM is actually saying your Paladin is now NG or CG? ... Because nothing short of an alignment change can make you lose your status. Unless you are running some kind of variant games, Paladins lose their status for committing EVIL acts, not chaotic ones. "You broke down a door, you are no longer Lawful," sounds questionable to me.

No way, I agree with it. To some deities, law is as important as good because neutral people following the law cause less evil than good people doing whatever they want. If paladins go breaking down doors, so will everyone else.

Time for some grey guard levels?

Sounds like a pretty extreme alignment violation. The GM should have had your deity should show up in person to chastize you =P

Seriously, that sounds pretty draconian. Particularly if there's justification. Paladins do need to atone if they perform a chaotic act, but the police are Lawful and they break down doors occasionally...

Once long ago (2nd ed era), I did temporarily disable a paladin's powers when they performed something that was only very mildly borderline, on the pretext that it was just a divine test of their faith to see if (minus their powers) they'd continue to try to keep to their code. I think the gods decided after a session it was a borderline pass and restored them, but its always interesting to see if a paladin no longer getting Stuff from their god turns into a baby-eating monster.

That's a retarded decision. Just don't acknowledge it.

Quote from: Cranewings;466487No way, I agree with it. To some deities, law is as important as good because neutral people following the law cause less evil than good people doing whatever they want. If paladins go breaking down doors, so will everyone else.

That makes perfect sense. For the LN equivalent of a paladin. I don't know what "some deities" have to do with it, paladins are champions of Good who must also be Lawful. They are not champions of Lawful.

Alright to clarify, my deity is Saranaere, the goddess of redemption, healing, mercy, and sun.

Secondly she is NOT a LG goddess. She's an NG. Yes she isn't always about law, but like some might see it, I DID commit a slightly chaotic act.

Was enough to warrant a stripping of my paladinhood? I'm not sure I completely agree. It was like this; door in a place I didn't know was arcane locked. It's not an EVIL place, but it's surrounded by evil. I already found a spot in this fortress that had, because of some previous attack, become vulnerable to demons being able to enter the tower/fort. Now as a paladin I did think MAYBE I should check out the sealed/arcane locked door BECAUSE I was curious. Does curiosity count as chaotic is MY question...I honestly don't know.

And yes paws, my DM decided my alignment needed to go from LG to NG.

Crane,

My lack of foresight was more because I didn't think BREAKING down a door, even one sealed, meant auto loss of my paladinhood. HELL if anything I thought I might lose it because my paladin was STILL raging about the fact a succubus tricked them.

Quote from: Nightfall;466501Alright to clarify, my deity is Saranaere, the goddess of redemption, healing, mercy, and sun.

Secondly she is NOT a LG goddess. She's an NG. Yes she isn't always about law, but like some might see it, I DID commit a slightly chaotic act.

Was enough to warrant a stripping of my paladinhood? I'm not sure I completely agree. It was like this; door in a place I didn't know was arcane locked. It's not an EVIL place, but it's surrounded by evil. I already found a spot in this fortress that had, because of some previous attack, become vulnerable to demons being able to enter the tower/fort. Now as a paladin I did think MAYBE I should check out the sealed/arcane locked door BECAUSE I was curious. Does curiosity count as chaotic is MY question...I honestly don't know.

And yes paws, my DM decided my alignment needed to go from LG to NG.

Crane,

My lack of foresight was more because I didn't think BREAKING down a door, even one sealed, meant auto loss of my paladinhood. HELL if anything I thought I might lose it because my paladin was STILL raging about the fact a succubus tricked them.

I could see you losing your apartment deposit. But your alignment?

So...
... you didn't violate the paladin code.
... your alignment shifted to match the deity's alignment.
... your deity is a deity of mercy and redemption.
... your GM thinks breaking down an evil door is a chaotic act.

Yup, you've been dicked for playing a paladin! Oh, well. I hope your GM doesn't complain when in the future you play a sociopathic Psychic Warrior.

Paws,

Don't worry, I'm running after he's finished running Second Darkness. TRUST ME. I will have my vengeance.

The door was a treasure vault door btw. So maybe not the BEST move but I DIDN'T steal a damn thing. Unlike the NG/(now CN) Oracle of Battle and the CG gnome conjurer.

Also for your benefit folks, I've attached a .txt file of Saranrae's ADDITIONAL Code of Conduct for Paladins that serve her.

No where does it say I can't break down doors.

Quote from: Nightfall;466504Paws,

Don't worry, I'm running after he's finished running Second Darkness. TRUST ME. I will have my vengeance.

The door was a treasure vault door btw. So maybe not the BEST move but I DIDN'T steal a damn thing. Unlike the NG/(now CN) Oracle of Battle and the CG gnome conjurer.

Also for your benefit folks, I've attached a .txt file of Saranrae's ADDITIONAL Code of Conduct for Paladins that serve her.

No where does it say I can't break down doors.

In fact, it clearly states you have to:

• I will seek out and destroy the spawn of the Rough
Beast. If I cannot defeat them, I will give my life trying.
If my life would be wasted in the attempt, I will find
allies. If any fall because of my inaction, their deaths
lie upon my soul, and I will atone for each.
• I will not abide evil, and will combat it with steel when
words are not enough. I do not flinch from my faith,
and do not fear embarrassment. My soul cannot be
bought for all the stars in the sky.

See? Evil doors must be stopped.

I'm not sure the door was evil...but who knows?

First time I've heard of a Dungeon Fantasy Characte being penalised for kicking down the door!