PBS going the woke spiel. But the little jab at the OSR was a bit perplexing.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/how-a-new-generation-of-gamers-is-pushing-for-inclusivity-beyond-the-table?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/how-a-new-generation-of-gamers-is-pushing-for-inclusivity-beyond-the-table?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab)
QuoteBut even within these gaming communities, there is some friction. Old School Renaissance, or OSR, is a gaming movement whose players claim they are "against outside politics permeating their game space," said Dashiell. These players support the use of traditional fantasy tropes in game design, such as the existence of "good" and "evil" races with no nuance. OSR gamers are often seen as the old guard of tabletop gaming and tend to idealize the past, which "defaults to a white, masculine worldview," Trammell said.
The article is scattered with more drivvel.
So writing good and evil races is bad. But of course it's okay to demonize your political opponents or anyone you don't like as inherently evil, while painting yourself as without flaw, on the right side of history, and fully justified in committing any atrocity. Do these people even hear themselves? The projection is strong here.
PBS, much like the BBC and CBC, are institutions that were once BEACONS of unbiased news and opinions. The problem is they were infiltrated and became biased sleeze pits, but normies still watch and consume the opinions, totally unaware of the sea change.
It's maddening.
Quote"This can be seen in early D&D with non-humans or demihumans having level caps," said Trammell. This means that in earlier editions of the rules, non-human characters could never achieve the same degree of growth as human characters.
Gee, because the game used asymetric races with different abilities and bonuses that were useful in the game. A dwarf having infravision and the ability to determine if you are going up or down in a level could be the determining factor between a party wipe and not. Meanwhile, humans do not get infravision and have no clue if they are going up or down a level. Next, looking at it from real world perspectives, lets give a Homo Sapien and a Neanderthal a math test and see who passes. Dwarfs and Humans are different species. The stupid is so strong in the author.
A well written sermon to the mainline Woke Church that knows nothing, nor cares anything, about our hobby. They can rest at ease the inva-.. Crusade... continues into every corner of the culture.
Well we got some news for them. But they ain't gonna like it.
So glad that they simply allowed the interviewee to smear the OSR without getting a comment from a dissenting viewpoint. Journalistic integrity is with the PBS these days, for sure. Shameful how far it's fallen.
Quote from: shoplifter on January 03, 2023, 10:14:12 AM
So glad that they simply allowed the interviewee to smear the OSR without getting a comment from a dissenting viewpoint. Journalistic integrity is with the PBS these days, for sure. Shameful how far it's fallen.
"There's nothing sexist or racist about gaming," said the STRAIGHT WHITE MALE the community chose to act as their representative. I believe his gamer-bro, Q-Anon flavoured small talk were meant to 'put me at ease,' but as an LGBTQAI+ POC, I felt very endangered.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
PBS, much like the BBC and CBC, are institutions that were once BEACONS of unbiased news and opinions. The problem is they were infiltrated and became biased sleeze pits, but normies still watch and consume the opinions, totally unaware of the sea change.
It's maddening.
They were never unbiased. Before, they were more careful to hide the bias. In the process of hiding it, occasionally they'd slip up and let the opposing viewpoint keep talking long enough to make a point. Keep in mind that there are plenty of people in our hobby that are the same way. They are doing now what they always wanted to do, but were afraid to try.
The Whack Left: "It's wrong to characterize RPG races as inherently evil."
Also the Whack Left: "White people are inherently evil."
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 03, 2023, 10:34:28 AM
The Whack Left: "It's wrong to characterize RPG races as inherently evil."
Also the Whack Left: "White people are inherently evil."
There's your mistake. We've been othered, that allows anything done against us to be moral.
This article just seems like a way for some woke lefty fucktard to complain about their mental illnesses and blame it on D&D.
Yeah, like many articles, this one seems dashed out from a handful of sources. This part struck me in that it doesn't quote a source, and is exactly wrong.
Quote from: Christopher Thomas, PBSIn a recent investor meeting, Wizards of the Coast CEO Cynthia Williams described Dungeons & Dragons as "under-monetized." The company's goal is to increase products targeting players even after they have purchased the source books needed to play. One of the biggest draws for Dungeons & Dragons and TTRPGs is the relatively low cost of investment to start — once players buy a rulebook, they can keep playing indefinitely, limited only by their own imaginations.
The last part doesn't make sense. The indefinite play is low cost to
continue, not low cost to start. The hardbound rulebooks are still relatively expensive, plus the difficult learning curve compared to some other entertainment.
This article is ridiculous, of course. Play the game how you want, and don't listen to the haters. They will always find something to be pissed off about. And run public/open games that are not D&D (TM).
There's simply no escape anymore. The hobby has been completely hijacked and the zealots are going to do everything in their power to force their rhetoric on any who wish to participate in the TTRPG world. Failure to kiss the ring will get you labeled as whatever new ad hom is popular and canceled if you have any internet presence at all.
You WILL play TTRPGs THEIR way and you WILL accept THEIR morality architecture or you WILL suffer the consequences.
Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:51:50 AM
There's simply no escape anymore. The hobby has been completely hijacked and the zealots are going to do everything in their power to force their rhetoric on any who wish to participate in the TTRPG world. Failure to kiss the ring will get you labeled as whatever new ad hom is popular and canceled if you have any internet presence at all.
You WILL play TTRPGs THEIR way and you WILL accept THEIR morality architecture or you WILL suffer the consequences.
I haven't paid for any legacy content from D&D since they labeled everything before 5E as racist. I mean they can try to shovel out their garbage, all it does is take dollars away from their company and build up their competitors.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 03, 2023, 10:34:28 AM
The Whack Left: "It's wrong to characterize RPG races as inherently evil."
Also the Whack Left: "White people are inherently evil."
Such, are the times in which we live. Without the internet, this mind virus could not have spread so easily.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 03, 2023, 01:49:39 PM
I haven't paid for any legacy content from D&D since they labeled everything before 5E as racist. I mean they can try to shovel out their garbage, all it does is take dollars away from their company and build up their competitors.
I know they'd rather I obtained it by other means than take my racist money for their racist products.
I'm surprised they sell such racist material...it's like they almost like they value money more than virtue.
Quote from: Omega on January 03, 2023, 09:36:20 AM
PBS going the woke spiel. But the little jab at the OSR was a bit perplexing.
[/url]
QuoteBut even within these gaming communities, there is some friction. Old School Renaissance, or OSR, is a gaming movement whose players claim they are "against outside politics permeating their game space," said Dashiell. These players support the use of traditional fantasy tropes in game design, such as the existence of "good" and "evil" races with no nuance. OSR gamers are often seen as the old guard of tabletop gaming and tend to idealize the past, which "defaults to a white, masculine worldview," Trammell said.
The article is scattered with more drivvel.
Yeah, heaven forbid we set the story to have non-ambiguous bad guys that everyone can agree are ok to kill on sight. Not suggest. Not imply. Not realistic. But make a fictional setting where it's ok and we won't be judged for doing so.
So we get judged for doing so anyway. Is it any wonder we all want these people to go away and never try to come back? It's fiction. It's childish fun. Stop over-analyzing it that there are hidden meanings. We made bad guys irredeemable so it's ok and nobody gets weird about it. I would rather kill a skeleton than a stormtrooper. That trooper might be married with kids, and either way is somebody's son. A skeleton is a monster. So are pig faced brutes who are cannibals, created by a dark god as throw away troops. Just kill it.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 03, 2023, 02:53:40 PM
Yeah, heaven forbid we set the story to have non-ambiguous bad guys that everyone can agree are ok to kill on sight. Not suggest. Not imply. Not realistic. But make a fictional setting where it's ok and we won't be judged for doing so.
So we get judged for doing so anyway. Is it any wonder we all want these people to go away and never try to come back? It's fiction. It's childish fun. Stop over-analyzing it that there are hidden meanings. We made bad guys irredeemable so it's ok and nobody gets weird about it. I would rather kill a skeleton than a stormtrooper. That trooper might be married with kids, and either way is somebodies son. A skeleton is a monster. So are pig faced brutes who are cannibals, created by a dark god as throw away troops. Just kill it.
https://catholicexchange.com/the-importance-of-myths-and-fairy-tales-for-christian-children/
I think there's something more nefarious going on here; these SJW retards are just useful idiots to push an agenda.
I feel modern SJW-inflected D&D is more 'white' and parochial than the old stuff. But definitely less masculine! Old D&D appealed to teenage boys of all ages and races. The new stuff appeals only to Western-culture SJWs and Allies.
Quote from: S'mon on January 03, 2023, 03:18:41 PM
I feel modern SJW-inflected D&D is more 'white' and parochial than the old stuff. But definitely less masculine! Old D&D appealed to teenage boys of all ages and races. The new stuff appeals only to Western-culture SJWs and Allies.
It's definitely more 'White Man's Burden'
Greetings!
More anti-white racism and hatred, dressed up as intellectual discussion. Meanwhile sucking the ass of every other people and minority--especially applauding and slobbering on "POC".
PBS is utterly pathetic. They need to gargle with Napalm.
Just also notice the lies and bullshit propaganda they push and marinate in. The RPG hobby has always welcomed minorities and women. Just because it was started by WHITE people--and the majority of the fans and participants have been WHITE--so what? America is mostly white. White people are the majority, whether the "POC" like it or not. Just about everything is going to cater to and reflect white preferences, and white values. Again, so what? This dynamic is a reality everywhere. In China, it's Chinese values and preferences. In Mexico, it s Mexican values and preferences. And so on and so on.
Beyond those considerations, notice also the techniques of "divide and conquer", of stirring up problems--of creating a problem from nowhere, so they then can provide the solution.
Telling YOUR stories. WTF? Women, minorities, gays, "POC" can't tell their stories? Since when? They can create and play whatever stories they want. That has always been true. However, specifically, what the fuck do their "stories" have any fucking relevance to the game of D&D? Gays, women, "POC", whaa, whaa, whaa. It is all a crybaby, spoiled child-like attempt and entitled tantrum to change the game and the gaming culture by pumping their Marxist-based ideological bullshit into the hobby.
Napalm.
Napalm is the answer.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brad on January 03, 2023, 03:02:26 PMI think there's something more nefarious going on here; these SJW retards are just useful idiots to push an agenda.
I said this early on and it is looking more true each day. The whole focus on race vs species in One D&D is just to create a social stigma against playing the older, racist versions of the game. Pushing everyone back into the fold of the One approved game.
What's funny is seeing people like Gobllinoid Games acting as if they will be spared by bending the knee.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 03, 2023, 04:21:14 PM
What's funny is seeing people like Gobllinoid Games acting as if they will be spared by bending the knee.
They'll just be the last ones eaten
Quote from: SHARK on January 03, 2023, 04:12:12 PM
More anti-white racism and hatred, dressed up as intellectual discussion. Meanwhile sucking the ass of every other people and minority--especially applauding and slobbering on "POC".
PBS is utterly pathetic. They need to gargle with Napalm.
Just also notice the lies and bullshit propaganda they push and marinate in. The RPG hobby has always welcomed minorities and women. Just because it was started by WHITE people--and the majority of the fans and participants have been WHITE--so what? America is mostly white. White people are the majority, whether the "POC" like it or not. Just about everything is going to cater to and reflect white preferences, and white values. Again, so what? This dynamic is a reality everywhere. In China, it's Chinese values and preferences. In Mexico, it s Mexican values and preferences. And so on and so on.
In Latin America, we get this same bullcrap. (Imported from your universities, by the way. ;) ) The funny thing is that the same person who is an evil white oppressor in Latin America is an oppressed PoC minority in the U.S. The attack is on the traditional basis of society and here it is the white families (with some mixture or not) and the Christian black and mixed families who never played the victim card.
You said "in Mexico, it is Mexican values and preferences". I can't speak for Mexico, but I can say that in Brazil it is not Brazilian values or preferences, it is Marxian values imported from American or French universities.
The wokesters are destroying the Mexican values as they use them to destroy the American values.
There's an old Doctor Who storyline (The Greatest Show In The Galaxy) where there are several prisoners, and they know that they're being sent to their death one at a time. As the Doctor plans an escape for them, one of the prisoners reports their scheme to the jailers.
Some people would rather put off the inevitable, than face danger now with a chance at survival. It's basically how all dictatorships work.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 03, 2023, 04:21:14 PM
I said this early on and it is looking more true each day. The whole focus on race vs species in One D&D is just to create a social stigma against playing the older, racist versions of the game. Pushing everyone back into the fold of the One approved game.
There's always only been One D&D, comrade.
Quote from: Brad on January 03, 2023, 05:10:19 PM
There's always only been One D&D, comrade.
I'd rather wear the head-cage full of rats.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: Brad on January 03, 2023, 05:10:19 PM
There's always only been One D&D, comrade.
I'd rather wear the head-cage full of rats.
I'd rather wear the skin of Jeremy Perkins and make hate love to his husband than play One D&D.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 03, 2023, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: Brad on January 03, 2023, 05:10:19 PM
There's always only been One D&D, comrade.
I'd rather wear the head-cage full of rats.
I'd rather wear the skin of Perkins and make love to his husband than play One D&D.
can confirm. when i joined an osr community i was bombarded with a thousand racial slurs per second until i left.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 03, 2023, 04:21:14 PM
Quote from: Brad on January 03, 2023, 03:02:26 PMI think there's something more nefarious going on here; these SJW retards are just useful idiots to push an agenda.
I said this early on and it is looking more true each day. The whole focus on race vs species in One D&D is just to create a social stigma against playing the older, racist versions of the game. Pushing everyone back into the fold of the One approved game.
What's funny is seeing people like Gobllinoid Games acting as if they will be spared by bending the knee.
I have been thinking the same. They have very cleverly bent the narrative to pain any older gaming as bad and odds are they have something else on the works to "prove" it or just push another lie.
Marketing needs to die in Hell across the board at this point. If Marketing were not pushing these things hard they would not get so much traction so fast.
Quote from: jhkim on January 03, 2023, 11:27:08 AM
The last part doesn't make sense. The indefinite play is low cost to continue, not low cost to start. The hardbound rulebooks are still relatively expensive, plus the difficult learning curve compared to some other entertainment.
Well, there's an outlay, sure, but even today a premium hardcover, not counting limited editions and such, is still no more expensive than a AAA computer game, probably less. That may be "relatively expensive", but as a one time fee for potentially years and years of use, it's not bad.
Plus you can buy less expensive books, like Palladium's offerings, or stick to PDFs and indie games... Or, hell, free games, of which there are a plethora.
Roleplaying, particularly in the last 15 years or so, has become one of the most affordable hobbies you can find.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 03, 2023, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: Brad on January 03, 2023, 05:10:19 PM
There's always only been One D&D, comrade.
I'd rather wear the head-cage full of rats.
I'd rather wear the skin of Jeremy Perkins and make hate love to his husband than play One D&D.
That is an awful picture, right there....
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/god-not-this.jpg)
(I don't mind the topic. People need to know that there is a dissenting opinion, and they aren't the only ones who see the Emperor Has No Clothes...)
I mean... orcs weren't even a race back in pre-Book of Humanoids times. They were under the monster section so the race argument is wrong. I'm trying to find logic here (I know this is an impossible task when it comes to the woke left, but it is worth the laugh nonetheless). If orcs being evil is wrong then why killing Mind Flyers is ok? Or oozes? Should we like ask every dungeon denizen about their political views before we decide to kill them? Or having tentacles is good enough reason to kill? Can't we detach ourselves and kill them in the same manner as we kill humans (in all spectrums of skin colors), orcs, and monsters in video games? Should every video game now feature orcs as a noble and wilderness-loving culture like TTRPGs are now forced to?
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
Now the argument about demihuman races being inferior is wrong too. Yes, they had level limits and were kinda designed to discourage players from picking just them, because Gygax wanted to have fantasy sword & sorcery game with only humans as playable characters but was kinda forced to bring other races to D&D because of LotR hype. BUT! All the races except Hobbits were superior to humans at first few levels. Especially elves. And because of the extremely high death rate at low levels in D&D, it was a statistically better idea to bring an elf than magic user or even cleric! I don't buy this inferiority argument.
It's so weird that "white straight male" has become such a pejorative these days.
And what exactly is "wrong" with appealing to white straight men? I mean without them the hobby would've died a Long time ago. Who the fuck do these woke cunts think supported the game for the decades that they existed before Stranger Things and Critical Role made them trendy?
Nobody complained when white straight men were ostracized, made fun of, and bullied, back when it wasn't cool or cute to be a nerd or geek that played them "witchcraft games in their moms basement".
But now that the hobby is cool and has been fully appropriated by the mainstream, now the core fan base that kept game companies from going bankrupt are suddenly the enemy??
Quote from: Monero on January 04, 2023, 08:46:01 AM
And what exactly is "wrong" with appealing to white straight men?
They already own that demographic, so it's time to go after all the other groups. It's like what the NFL does with all those horseshit vignettes to appeal to women...$$$$$$$
You can shame the straight white males into just going along with it on the oft chance they might get laid, but eventually you start to lose viewership, which is what is happening. Normal people who just want to watch football, or play fucking elf games, literally do not give one fuck about any of this stuff. It's all a bunch of edge lords on the internet clamoring for "representation" when they make up such an insignificant percentage of the population interested in such pursuits as to be inconsequential to the bottom line. WotC is going to just go too far and lose the average D&D player who is tired of being lectured to, just like the average NFL fan stopped watching during all that BLM kneeling nonsense. The real issue is that most people have the memory of a goldfish, so they can be easily duped into returning to a medium if the purveyor of said medium just pretends none of that ever happened. New Coke? One D&D? Nahh, that never existed, just buy our stuff again! Then the cycle will repeat itself at some point, probably.
Cf. Gillette razors as a recent example of a company pushing the limits too far and dialing it waaaaaaay back. I will say that at this point IDGAF what WotC does because I have a negative amount of interest in ever playing D&D again unless it's AD&D or B/X, which I already own multiple copies of. There is no compelling reason for me to ever give them another dime, so in that sense they royally screwed the pooch considering I purchased literally every product for 3.X and nearly everything for 5 as well.
Quote from: Brad on January 04, 2023, 10:08:17 AM
Quote from: Monero on January 04, 2023, 08:46:01 AM
And what exactly is "wrong" with appealing to white straight men?
They already own that demographic, so it's time to go after all the other groups. It's like what the NFL does with all those horseshit vignettes to appeal to women...$$$$$$$
You can shame the straight white males into just going along with it on the oft chance they might get laid, but eventually you start to lose viewership, which is what is happening. Normal people who just want to watch football, or play fucking elf games, literally do not give one fuck about any of this stuff. It's all a bunch of edge lords on the internet clamoring for "representation" when they make up such an insignificant percentage of the population interested in such pursuits as to be inconsequential to the bottom line. WotC is going to just go too far and lose the average D&D player who is tired of being lectured to, just like the average NFL fan stopped watching during all that BLM kneeling nonsense. The real issue is that most people have the memory of a goldfish, so they can be easily duped into returning to a medium if the purveyor of said medium just pretends none of that ever happened. New Coke? One D&D? Nahh, that never existed, just buy our stuff again! Then the cycle will repeat itself at some point, probably.
Cf. Gillette razors as a recent example of a company pushing the limits too far and dialing it waaaaaaay back. I will say that at this point IDGAF what WotC does because I have a negative amount of interest in ever playing D&D again unless it's AD&D or B/X, which I already own multiple copies of. There is no compelling reason for me to ever give them another dime, so in that sense they royally screwed the pooch considering I purchased literally every product for 3.X and nearly everything for 5 as well.
If I need any older content form WotC, I download and ensure they get not one red penny from me till they remove the racist warning on all content pre 5E woke fuck writers. You can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
The whole thing is beyond frustrating and then they tell you not to buy the old content because its racist, sexist and just wrong man. Instead comrade, buy our woke communist shit where Orcs are gay and you are dating them to get to level 3, now roll 20 to see whose the top. No thanks.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 11:09:50 AMYou can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
This is a slight tangent, because it involves copyright BS rather than Marxist censorship, but I'm reminded of the Judge Dredd And The Worlds Of 2000AD rpg.
When they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
It may be a somewhat naïve stance in a world of corporate overlords and copyright bear traps, but I'm of a mind that anything written should be available in some digital format in 2023.
I didn't even think the game was particularly good, but DAMN!
I stopped watching PBS about 15 years ago. They were for the most part just a boring station to watch. Even then I only became aware of it because they had Doctor Who marathons to raise money.
Even then it was hard to watch because they showed some of it 40-45 mins of begging for money rinse and repeat. Even if you had a VCR it made it annoying to watch. Overall constant begging for cash coupled with being tone deaf about wanting to at the time cater and only yo the 50 years old plus crowd. They wanted money wanted younger viewers yet kept showing opera and more. That and their very limited selection of shows I liked really made it that I stopped watching and never returned.
Glad I did as the SJW rot seems to have gutted them through and through. As usual their fellow SJWs on this site remain silent. We can't call out a garbage biased article can we. It might hurt our status with our fellow SJWs.
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
That was WotC shitting the bed again. PF2E actually has demons that are not only evil, they are such icons of sin and malice that certain spells and actions will damage them if they take advantage of it.
PF2E's succubus, for example, suffers damage if she fails to seduce or charm a target. Worse, the target can then deal damage to her as part of a Demoralize action if it incorporates said failure or rejection.
(Cue the wizard chasing the screaming succubus down a hall, yelling, 'I'M GAY!')
I know Paizo has done some amazingly dumb shit, but I find this concept to be a wonderful idea.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 04, 2023, 11:26:06 AM
(Cue the wizard chasing the screaming succubus down a hall, yelling, 'I'M GAY!')
"You take 1d10 Stunning damage, and 2d4 Brave damage!"
I still consider D&D players to have been more likely to be unpopular and bullied kids, so we formed a somewhat shut off or exclusive group to protect ourselves from bullies and harassment. It doesn't surprise me that these commies are now trying to tell us that we are the bullies.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:30:54 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 04, 2023, 11:26:06 AM
(Cue the wizard chasing the screaming succubus down a hall, yelling, 'I'M GAY!')
"You take 1d10 Stunning damage, and 2d4 Brave damage!"
You laugh, but just about every demon has some kind of quirky vulnerability related to its sin like that. In fact, the only one that doesn't is the balor, but that fucker sits at the top of the food chain.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 04, 2023, 03:13:43 AM
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/god-not-this.jpg)
(I don't mind the topic. People need to know that there is a dissenting opinion, and they aren't the only ones who see the Emperor Has No Clothes...)
I feel this every time I go to about any fora or video group or whatever. It crops up fucking everywhere now and festers in everything it seems.
Eventually, if we have not had one already, there will be some sociopath declaring that flashlights are sexist tools of the patriarchy because of the shape. You know, like they aimed at swords during the 90s iteration.
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
Good demons and even good Satan have been a thing long before RPGs. Pops up quite a bit.
Its also a part of some religions and mythologies. In a rare few cases I saw the line between demon and angel were none really. They were horrible monsters sent to torment the wicked. But were not evil. Just very good at their job.
Also OD&D and AD&D allowed for playing monsters. Just had to handle it on a case by case basis. Article in Dragon for BX allowed you to pretty much play anything with a build your own class/race system.
Nothing new really. But you have one faction treating it like its the coming of Christ amd something new. And the other treating it like the spawn of Satan and ignoring that its old hat thats been there from the start.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:20:06 AMWhen they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
I mean, literally my first search for it on the high seas turned it up. It wasn't scrubbed that well.
Quote from: Omega on January 04, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
Good demons and even good Satan have been a thing long before RPGs. Pops up quite a bit.
Its also a part of some religions and mythologies. In a rare few cases I saw the line between demon and angel were none really. They were horrible monsters sent to torment the wicked. But were not evil. Just very good at their job.
Also OD&D and AD&D allowed for playing monsters. Just had to handle it on a case by case basis. Article in Dragon for BX allowed you to pretty much play anything with a build your own class/race system.
Nothing new really. But you have one faction treating it like its the coming of Christ amd something new. And the other treating it like the spawn of Satan and ignoring that its old hat thats been there from the start.
And frankly, between that problem and the "paladin slaughtering orc babies" problem, which are kind of the opposite ends of the alignment flexibility spectrum, I'll take the possibility of good demons every day.
Quote from: Bruwulf on January 04, 2023, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:20:06 AMWhen they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
I mean, literally my first search for it on the high seas turned it up. It wasn't scrubbed that well.
If it was on a site, what might it rhyme with?
Quote from: Bruwulf on January 04, 2023, 01:52:20 PM
And frankly, between that problem and the "paladin slaughtering orc babies" problem, which are kind of the opposite ends of the alignment flexibility spectrum, I'll take the possibility of good demons every day.
If they're going to do that kind of thing, then could they please stop appropriating my religion and making effigies of a demonic figure? :) https://www.amazon.com/Funko-Pop-Games-Dungeons-Asmodeus/dp/B07TS8NWT1/ (https://www.amazon.com/Funko-Pop-Games-Dungeons-Asmodeus/dp/B07TS8NWT1/)
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 11:09:50 AMYou can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
The whole thing is beyond frustrating and then they tell you not to buy the old content because its racist, sexist and just wrong man. Instead comrade, buy our woke communist shit where Orcs are gay and you are dating them to get to level 3, now roll 20 to see whose the top. No thanks.
I remember when they pulled PDFs I "owned" from DTRPG for whatever reason...glad I make multiple backups of everything. Also, I bought the Dragon Magazine Archive in 2000 off a fledgling online book retailer named Amazon. Who knew this was of vital importance?
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 11:09:50 AMYou can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
This is a slight tangent, because it involves copyright BS rather than Marxist censorship, but I'm reminded of the Judge Dredd And The Worlds Of 2000AD rpg.
When they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
It may be a somewhat naïve stance in a world of corporate overlords and copyright bear traps, but I'm of a mind that anything written should be available in some digital format in 2023.
I didn't even think the game was particularly good, but DAMN!
Its WotC calling their old content, of which OSR is derived from in their own leftarded words:
QuoteWe (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.
The more WotC goes insulting towards fans, writers and content, the more they should lose income. That PBS author has no clue what she's writing and its obvious from her writing. The same mindset she displayed in her writing is the same mindset WotC used to write that disclaimer on all pre-5E content.
If I had the ability to buy WotC, the first thing I'd do would be to remove that warning and put out a new warning for 5E warning about racism, leftist politics, poor writing and that the new WotC will do better to fix this mess. And sorry about Spelljammer 5E.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 11:09:50 AMYou can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
This is a slight tangent, because it involves copyright BS rather than Marxist censorship, but I'm reminded of the Judge Dredd And The Worlds Of 2000AD rpg.
When they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
It may be a somewhat naïve stance in a world of corporate overlords and copyright bear traps, but I'm of a mind that anything written should be available in some digital format in 2023.
I didn't even think the game was particularly good, but DAMN!
Its WotC calling their old content, of which OSR is derived from in their own leftarded words:
QuoteWe (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.
The more WotC goes insulting towards fans, writers and content, the more they should lose income. That PBS author has no clue what she's writing and its obvious from her writing. The same mindset she displayed in her writing is the same mindset WotC used to write that disclaimer on all pre-5E content.
If I had the ability to buy WotC, the first thing I'd do would be to remove that warning and put out a new warning for 5E warning about racism, leftist politics, poor writing and that the new WotC will do better to fix this mess. And sorry about Spelljammer 5E.
So basically, they hate everything that made them successful? Talk about self-loathing.....
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
I'm not doubting you, but why did they need to come up with a concept.
"Good" demons are called angels. Even if we want to limit to RPGs that's been a concept since at least the mid-90s in the SJG version of
In Nomine where each type of angel has their demonic opposite and angels can fall and demons can repent.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 11:09:50 AMYou can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
This is a slight tangent, because it involves copyright BS rather than Marxist censorship, but I'm reminded of the Judge Dredd And The Worlds Of 2000AD rpg.
When they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
Yet Eden still sells pdfs of the Buffy and Angel games. Others as well, but those are the ones where I know they lost the license over a decade ago. They had a fire sale on print products.
It's weird what gets followed up on and what doesn't.
Then again, the
Dragon Archive stepped on the dick of an intellectual property attorney, which is probably why it got noticed. I suspect most of the others whose rights were violated (probably all the artists and most of the authors) wouldn't have realized they'd been screwed.
Quote from: PulpHerb on January 04, 2023, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 11:20:06 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 04, 2023, 11:09:50 AMYou can't get most Dragon Magazines now without pirating, they aren't available for sale on DMs Guild because the fucks don't give a shit about past content, whereas a lot of us do. The scans on DMs guild have been bad. I've had to pirate PDF's because the PDF's from the DMsguild weren't usable compared to pirate content, I'd probably be in break because I paid for version 1.3 from DMsguild that sucks but the pirate scan of 1.0 is perfect but its not the same version welcome to US copyright laws.
This is a slight tangent, because it involves copyright BS rather than Marxist censorship, but I'm reminded of the Judge Dredd And The Worlds Of 2000AD rpg.
When they lost the license for Judge Dredd, not only was the book discontinued, but you can not buy a PDF copy anywhere, and it's even scrubbed from the high seas! If I hadn't once held the book in my hands, I'd swear it was just a fever dream!
Yet Eden still sells pdfs of the Buffy and Angel games. Others as well, but those are the ones where I know they lost the license over a decade ago. They had a fire sale on print products.
It's weird what gets followed up on and what doesn't.
Then again, the Dragon Archive stepped on the dick of an intellectual property attorney, which is probably why it got noticed. I suspect most of the others whose rights were violated (probably all the artists and most of the authors) wouldn't have realized they'd been screwed.
Yeah it just got put on my to buy list now. I'd rather pay for it than sail the high seas. Its post TSR acquisition by WotC but still has TSR trade dress.
Frankly, I think this is the appropriate level of reply to the PBS author:
I suspect the real problem lies at the Hasbro level. Like Disney, Hasbro probably sees itself as primarily selling to families with children and is terrified of bad publicity that might impact sales.
Similarly with D&D rising into the public eye, PBS probably wants to cover their own asses and comment on the transgressive material in earlier D&D systems to buy back some credit with their doner base.
Quote from: David Johansen on January 04, 2023, 08:22:54 PM
I suspect the real problem lies at the Hasbro level. Like Disney, Hasbro probably sees itself as primarily selling to families with children and is terrified of bad publicity that might impact sales.
Which is ironic, because they push all kinds of ultra far left lunacy that parents HATE.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 04, 2023, 08:26:31 PM
Quote from: David Johansen on January 04, 2023, 08:22:54 PM
I suspect the real problem lies at the Hasbro level. Like Disney, Hasbro probably sees itself as primarily selling to families with children and is terrified of bad publicity that might impact sales.
Which is ironic, because they push all kinds of ultra far left lunacy that parents HATE.
Not PBS parents.
PBS parents are weird.
So it's kinda funny. I occasionally go to the OSR subreddit.....can't stand 'em most of the time, but they're whinging and hand-wringing about the unfair portrayal in the PBS article as well. My thought was, well take the medicine like we've been doing. Doesn't taste very well do it?
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on January 04, 2023, 10:04:37 PM
So it's kinda funny. I occasionally go to the OSR subreddit.....can't stand 'em most of the time, but they're whinging and hand-wringing about the unfair portrayal in the PBS article as well. My thought was, well take the medicine like we've been doing. Doesn't taste very well do it?
Exactly my thought. I got downvoted to hades there when I mentioned liking Dark Albion. Now they're upset they're getting the same treatment they give us.
Quote from: PulpHerb on January 04, 2023, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
I'm not doubting you, but why did they need to come up with a concept.
"Good" demons are called angels. Even if we want to limit to RPGs that's been a concept since at least the mid-90s in the SJG version of In Nomine where each type of angel has their demonic opposite and angels can fall and demons can repent.
More importantly, there was a cynical angle towards angels and demons having a kind of professional attitude towards their jobs. Demons torment humanity, angels appeal to their better nature, but it's all in a day's work. Nothing personal.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/17/12/21/171221aef68ea54c2bfbdea2791fd291.jpg)
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 04, 2023, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on January 04, 2023, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
I'm not doubting you, but why did they need to come up with a concept.
"Good" demons are called angels. Even if we want to limit to RPGs that's been a concept since at least the mid-90s in the SJG version of In Nomine where each type of angel has their demonic opposite and angels can fall and demons can repent.
More importantly, there was a cynical angle towards angels and demons having a kind of professional attitude towards their jobs. Demons torment humanity, angels appeal to their better nature, but it's all in a day's work. Nothing personal.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/17/12/21/171221aef68ea54c2bfbdea2791fd291.jpg)
I prefer Babylon 5's take on Angels (Vorlons = Order) and Demons (Shadows = Chaos). They fit the OSR lore of Chaos vs Law better IMHO.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 04, 2023, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on January 04, 2023, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: Warlock on January 04, 2023, 05:18:55 AM
Now I don't remember which game that was, but I think Paizo came up with the concept that demons can be good in Pathfinder 2 ed. No comment here.
I'm not doubting you, but why did they need to come up with a concept.
"Good" demons are called angels. Even if we want to limit to RPGs that's been a concept since at least the mid-90s in the SJG version of In Nomine where each type of angel has their demonic opposite and angels can fall and demons can repent.
More importantly, there was a cynical angle towards angels and demons having a kind of professional attitude towards their jobs. Demons torment humanity, angels appeal to their better nature, but it's all in a day's work. Nothing personal.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/17/12/21/171221aef68ea54c2bfbdea2791fd291.jpg)
Indeed. I played In Nomine for years, as an Angel, and almost the entirety was with another player as a Demon. It was like a "no politics outside of work" deal.
The PBS article was clearly full of lies and unprofessional. The members of this forum clearly see that. The question now is "where do we go from here?". My advice is to continue to prove them wrong. The gaming community has always been more welcoming thank any other. Old and new gamers need to continue that and not get duped into divisive infighting. We know old school games are not based on hate. In spirit the rules encourage team play to overcome challenges by evil and oppression. We need to continue to show the truth.
Those of us with public platforms, such as 'Pundit, will continue to spread the truth in a dignified way.
This latest wave of hateful lies about the community will be proven wrong and pass. By working with all gaming hobbiests the community will continue to grow in beneficial ways.
Well gentleman, it appears as though the OSR movement is the next cultural battleground. The Moral Authority conquered the mainstream, and now they're looking to takeover what's left of the Normal TTRPG community that has yet to kiss the ring.
With the r/OSR subreddit going into full meltdown mode and damage control over the PBS article, it's all just academic at this point.
There is no refuge from the zealots. There's nowhere to hide.
You WILL be assimilated and partake in Right Think and you WILL do it with a smile on your face or you WILL face the consequences.
Never thought I'd see this hobby completely ruined from outside influences. Yet here we are.
Quote from: Monero on January 05, 2023, 10:28:15 AMYou WILL be assimilated and partake in Right Think and you WILL do it with a smile on your face or you WILL face the consequences.
Nahh, just turn off your computer and play whatever you want.
It's only ruined if you let it be. Until they can prevent sales of non-woke products they're just sound and fury. Look at how well their efforts went with other traditional companies where the woke outrage just drove normal people to buy more from them and actually improved their sales.
I for one plan to make no apologies for my non-OGL traditional heroic virtues based fantasy game.
Social media is pretty extreme. I can't talk about a certain author on r/OSR but I can buy his stuff at my FLGS. Nobody in the real world knows or cares about rarified OSR drama.
So I'll repeat again what I once heard here: Get out and run the games you like how you like, in person. Use social media to find players but otherwise avoid it.
Quote from: Brad on January 05, 2023, 10:31:12 AM
Quote from: Monero on January 05, 2023, 10:28:15 AMYou WILL be assimilated and partake in Right Think and you WILL do it with a smile on your face or you WILL face the consequences.
Nahh, just turn off your computer and play whatever you want.
Because the fascists will stay on nsocial media and their shit will never filter down to the real world right?
Ask Dr Peterson about his license to practice.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 05, 2023, 11:34:53 AM
Because the fascists will stay on nsocial media and their shit will never filter down to the real world right?
Ask Dr Peterson about his license to practice.
You'll be in shackles over something else long before they break your door down for playing non-approved rpgs. After society collapses back into the stone age from the impeding civil wars, all those printed books I have will escalate in value.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 05, 2023, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: Brad on January 05, 2023, 10:31:12 AM
Quote from: Monero on January 05, 2023, 10:28:15 AMYou WILL be assimilated and partake in Right Think and you WILL do it with a smile on your face or you WILL face the consequences.
Nahh, just turn off your computer and play whatever you want.
Because the fascists will stay on nsocial media and their shit will never filter down to the real world right?
Ask Dr Peterson about his license to practice.
Generally, I agree. Stuff filters through.
However, for RPGs, I've played in (and run) many IRL public games and I've never encountered anything resembling social media OSR SJR drama. Most people IRL are pretty reasonable and flexible and just want to game.
Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
PBS, much like the BBC and CBC, are institutions that were once BEACONS of unbiased news and opinions. The problem is they were infiltrated and became biased sleeze pits, but normies still watch and consume the opinions, totally unaware of the sea change.
It's maddening.
That had to be a LONG time ago, because even in the late 1980s, I remember PBS being skewed fringe left.
I am a bit sick of it.
We are free to think what we want. Individuals can say what they want. Yet, when a publicly funded organization, yup they get your tax dollars, PBS begins to spout opinion as news and perpetuate another satanic panic I fight back.
The majority of their funding is via donations.
I am posting on Twitter. If you think their article is crap please swamp Twitter with tweets and use #DefundPBS
My slogan is: The next time PBS comes begging for donations - Make a Zero Pledge to PBS #DefundPBS.
FYI - PBS News Hour has me blocked so I cannot tweet at them anymore. They must have noticed me.
I am on as @blackmoor_film
Lets get a anti bad D&D article trend going.
Deleted as uncharitable speculation.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 05, 2023, 10:36:00 AM
It's only ruined if you let it be. Until they can prevent sales of non-woke products they're just sound and fury. Look at how well their efforts went with other traditional companies where the woke outrage just drove normal people to buy more from them and actually improved their sales.
I for one plan to make no apologies for my non-OGL traditional heroic virtues based fantasy game.
Even if they prevent sales those of us who own them can still play them and unlike the USSR we all have the ability to easily make and distribute samizdat.
Quote from: Redshirt451 on January 04, 2023, 10:46:51 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on January 04, 2023, 10:04:37 PM
So it's kinda funny. I occasionally go to the OSR subreddit.....can't stand 'em most of the time, but they're whinging and hand-wringing about the unfair portrayal in the PBS article as well. My thought was, well take the medicine like we've been doing. Doesn't taste very well do it?
Exactly my thought. I got downvoted to hades there when I mentioned liking Dark Albion. Now they're upset they're getting the same treatment they give us.
Every time I even glance at Reddit. I am reminded why not to use Reddit.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 05, 2023, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: Brad on January 05, 2023, 10:31:12 AM
Quote from: Monero on January 05, 2023, 10:28:15 AMYou WILL be assimilated and partake in Right Think and you WILL do it with a smile on your face or you WILL face the consequences.
Nahh, just turn off your computer and play whatever you want.
Because the fascists will stay on nsocial media and their shit will never filter down to the real world right?
Ask Dr Peterson about his license to practice.
Exactly. This mental disease is in the game stores and at conventions and creeping into homes. One of my players is just short of full on cultist and quotes the dogma near verbatim.
It's disturbing that this kind of thing is permitted on PBS, if perhaps not super surprising. Also, this matters to the hobby, because it affects image, recruitment, community zeitgeist, events annd conventions, and more. Woke BS narratives can do damage to all of the above. And just ignoring it does not solve the problem.
Quote from: Omega on January 05, 2023, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 05, 2023, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: Brad on January 05, 2023, 10:31:12 AM
Quote from: Monero on January 05, 2023, 10:28:15 AMYou WILL be assimilated and partake in Right Think and you WILL do it with a smile on your face or you WILL face the consequences.
Nahh, just turn off your computer and play whatever you want.
Because the fascists will stay on nsocial media and their shit will never filter down to the real world right?
Ask Dr Peterson about his license to practice.
Exactly. This mental disease is in the game stores and at conventions and creeping into homes. One of my players is just short of full on cultist and quotes the dogma near verbatim.
I would have kicked any such player to the curb at the first hint of cultish behaviour.
It's true, OSR is teh Racist!!!
(Don't worry, it's satire, not woke preaching.)
I have given some respectful feedback to PBS, you could do the same.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/contact-us
My story is that I was bullied, had violence in my home from my father, had an over-bearing mother, and was dealing with them divorcing as well, to be a victim of all of these circumstances AND THEN being told i'm bad or wrong because of how I play D&D just shows how these people are the new bullies, and we need to tell them that they are bullies.
So yeah, send feedback, push back against them, but do it in a sympathetic way instead of an antagonistic way.
If we play games to escape from the bad things in our lives, it also makes sense to play games to escape from politics