TheRPGSite

So there *was* a thread at EN World on this topic (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/265453-paying-game-day.html), that closed just before I hit the submit button after wasting a lot of time making a reply.  

Basically this store in Georgia required $20 or greater purchase for people to be allowed to participate in D&D Game Day there.  Apparently, it was the only store in America to do this, as everyone else in the thread said their FLGS, and even a big box book store did it for free.

Now I understand that the store owners have a right to run their business however they want.  They also have the right to ride a pogo stick to a funeral dressed up in a tutu, but I wouldn't recommend it.  

So the question isn't *could* they do this- the question is *should* the store owner be charging money for D&D game day?

I think posting the store's name & phone number may have been out of order, though- simply because that store is going to probably be getting a lot of angry rant/prank calls from total strangers who otherwise would never have heard of them.  

What do you guys think?

No.

 They should not have charged any admission fee, especially for the Game Day just past.

 If you saw the other thread you know why.


- Ed C.

No.

Charging for a Game Day just defeats its purpose.

Nope. Bad move on their part. The money they got for it isn't worth the good will (and good publicity) they squandered.

I'm curious if Wizards know about this. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't WotC send stores all of this promotional material for free? Isn't there some fine print somewhere saying that you can't turn around and sell it to customers or charge for running it?

Sure the owner has every right to charge admission or require purchases for people to play games in his store in general, but I doubt Wizards is cool with him doing that with their free promo stuff.

They claim there Rep knew of their plans, and several people claim to have contacted Wizards. I doubt we will ever find out more than that.

Charging for game day would be assinine.

I'll agree that charging for game day is dumb. Kind of helps to defeat the purpose of it. But what I'm curious to know is this. It would seem multiple people have contacted WotC about this. If they take an offense to this. If they will deny them the next game day materials. Or if they even give a shit.

I chose other.

It seems to me that they didn't actually charge for D&D game day, since the people were buying actual non-game-day product. The D&D game day was just used as a carrot, so to speak. Since a business has no obligation to even host a game day in the first place, requiring a purchase before allowing people to loiter on one's premises is perfectly fine. Anyone who doesn't want to pay . . . well, they can take their business(or in this case, lack thereof) elsewhere. That's capitalism.

I also don't like the loaded question. The word "should" implies that they made a moral error. I can see people not liking this, and can understand arguments for it not being practical in the business sense, stuff like that . . . but no moral error was committed. That would require some sort of obligation on the store's part, which there wasn't any.

You commie bitches!

In capitalism, the store owner can charge whatever he wants.

And customers have the choice to avoid that store.

Quote from: Spinachcat;333249You commie bitches!

In capitalism, the store owner can charge whatever he wants.

And customers have the choice to avoid that store.

I don't know about current regime, but I do know that, in the past, the solicitation specifically forbade charging for entry into Retail Play events or materials, since my FLGS got in trouble for selling used-by-the-store Retail Play modules.

I wonder if they still do prohibit charging to play. But the store got around that by making you purchase product instead?

Under the RPGA Retail play, that was specifically included as a form of "pay to play"...

Quote from: Spinachcat;333249You commie bitches!

In capitalism, the store owner can charge whatever he wants.

And customers have the choice to avoid that store.

Exactly right. The question was whether stores should charge. I said "no," predicated on the notion that we were discussing what was best for the store. If the store wants to build customer loyalty, then no, they shouldn't.

I'll be interested in seeing how this story pans out, keep us updated if you can, as to whether this store gets any kind of sanction from WoTC.

RPGpundit

You shouldn't have to pay to play, but if someone is stupid enough to not stand up and walk out when they are asked for money - then I find it hard to be sympathetic.

Not just no, but HELL NO!

An interesting aside is how many people were prepared to pay just to play a 4e module? It woudl be an interesting lithmus test of 4e popularity in that area.
I mean can you imagine a store insisting you buy $20 of product to play any other game and actually gettign folks to agree to it.

Quote from: aramis;333255I don't know about current regime, but I do know that, in the past, the solicitation specifically forbade charging for entry into Retail Play events or materials, since my FLGS got in trouble for selling used-by-the-store Retail Play modules.

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of that. If receiving and using the products required them to enter into an agreement with WotC not to charge people to play, including not requiring purchase of other products, then what they did is essentially a breach of contract. That would change everything, and the answer to the OP would then be a definite no.

It isn't unusual for the store to charge for room use (this is like 2$ to 5$ usually). I do think putting the fee at $20 was more than exorbitant and ultimately it makes that store a no-buy zone.

My local store doesn't charge.

I have in the past given money to a charity event that ran concurrent with a D&D Gameday; that money went to charity and the store itself stayed open nearly 24 hours because it was a special event. Gameday (by the luck of the calendar more than anything else) was part of that.

I'm pretty violently opposed to folks paying to play at a shop.

But I'm a hobby guy, not an industry guy. The reason the "rpg industry" is a joke is because people don't have to pay to play. You have to pay to golf, to bowl, to play mmorgs. The reason it's hard to say what makes a good GM is because there are no successful professional gms. There is no professional credibility or elan. The reason games have to become easier is because folks won't invest the uncompensated time into running an in-depth game.

All that said, I wouldn't pay anyone to play, other than at a charity convention. I like the off-the-grid nature of rpgs. I like do-it-yourself. I like raucous games in the back of the shop where people keep sticking their head around the corner to see what everyone's laughing about. I like that it's free. I like that I've played for 33 years or so and not spent a dime I consider mandatory since 1981.

I don't think gaming should be taken much more seriously. But--for those who wonder--the fact that no one pays to do it is why it isn't taken seriously.

Quote from: RPGPundit;333298I'll be interested in seeing how this story pans out, keep us updated if you can, as to whether this store gets any kind of sanction from WoTC.

I doubt we'll ever hear the particulars, but I know this much from an exchange with Charles Ryan over at EnWorld. Ryan coordinates the delivery of promotional D&D GameDay material in the UK, and he is VERY interested to hear which stores make good use of the material and which stores don't. For WotC, the important thing is this: shops getting sent material should really have their customers use it in play at these events in the store. The whole purpose is having the Game Day Event in the first place.

The promo materials shouldn't be given away freely to customers who just drop in, drop some cash, and then walk out. Yet that's what happens, and not that infrequently. These promo products fetch stellar prices on Ebay - especially those advertised as unused and unopened - and for some people that's apparently the only thing of interest to them when picking them up at game stores.

WotC is keenly interested to hear these things because they stop sending stuff to shops which do this. That they'll come down on a shop which did precisely this and charged for it seems inevitable therefore.

Unless there are people on this board that live near this game shop, I doubt we'll find anything out- and even then, it'd be the store's version (this local biker gang of Satan worshipers came in, all high on PCP, and DEMANDED that we let them play games- and when we told them about the surcharge, they beat me with my own shoes).  Maybe it wouldn't be that bad, but I wouldn't put much stock in it, anyway.  

The only way we'd know for sure is if a WOTC employee says something- which seems unlikely as ENWorld shut down the thread.  I doubt WotC employees are going to *start* a new thread just to tell us what happened here.

Quote from: BASHMAN;333631and even then, it'd be the store's version (this local biker gang of Satan worshipers came in, all high on PCP, and DEMANDED that we let them play games- and when we told them about the surcharge, they beat me with my own shoes).

:duh: Maybe if you go back in time 25 years and hop a few parallel dimensions over.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;333234I also don't like the loaded question. The word "should" implies that they made a moral error. I can see people not liking this, and can understand arguments for it not being practical in the business sense, stuff like that . . . but no moral error was committed. That would require some sort of obligation on the store's part, which there wasn't any.

The word "should" doesn't imply a moral error.  You shouldn't wear brown shoes with a black belt- but it isn't a matter of ethics- just bad taste.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;333670:duh: Maybe if you go back in time 25 years and hop a few parallel dimensions over.

It was a joke- the point was that I'm unlikely to actually trust the store's version of what happens, since they have changed their story on it.  

Actually are you located near this actual store?  Maybe you could check the place out, talk to some of the customers, & find out something (note- only if it's like in the next town over- don't spend your weekend on it).

Quote from: Windjammer;333336I doubt we'll ever hear the particulars, but I know this much from an exchange with Charles Ryan over at EnWorld. Ryan coordinates the delivery of promotional D&D GameDay material in the UK, and he is VERY interested to hear which stores make good use of the material and which stores don't. For WotC, the important thing is this: shops getting sent material should really have their customers use it in play at these events in the store. The whole purpose is having the Game Day Event in the first place.

The promo materials shouldn't be given away freely to customers who just drop in, drop some cash, and then walk out. Yet that's what happens, and not that infrequently. These promo products fetch stellar prices on Ebay - especially those advertised as unused and unopened - and for some people that's apparently the only thing of interest to them when picking them up at game stores.

WotC is keenly interested to hear these things because they stop sending stuff to shops which do this. That they'll come down on a shop which did precisely this and charged for it seems inevitable therefore.

Good. And so they should.

RPGPundit