It's expensive. Anyone read it? Is it worth buying?
The Core Book contains everything I ever used from the D&D DM's guide. I wonder what they put in it.
In word: everything else! From rules for making your own haunts to an entire chapter devoted to stat blocks of NPCs, it's a MUST have for the Pathfinder GM on the go. That and the artwork is SOOOOO awesome.
Quote from: Nightfall;395215In word: everything else! From rules for making your own haunts to an entire chapter devoted to stat blocks of NPCs, it's a MUST have for the Pathfinder GM on the go. That and the artwork is SOOOOO awesome.
Is it completely new original material?
Is there any direct cribbing from 3.5E SRD material?
It pretty good and what appears to be all original material.
The beginning may seem 101 stuff if you been gaming for a while. It is however well written. The further you go in the more detailed and useful the material becomes.
Chapter 1 Getting Started
Chapter 2 Running a Game
Chapter 3 Player Characters
Chapter 4 Nonplayer Characters
Chapter 5 Rewards
Chapter 6 Creating a World
Chapter 7 Adventures
Chapter 8 Advanced Topics
-Customizing your game
- Chases
- Disasters
- Drugs & Addiction
- Fortune-telling
- Gambling and Games of Chance
- Haunts
- Hazards
- Mysteries and Investigation
- Puzzles and Riddles
- Sanity and Madness
Chapter 9 NPC Gallery 50+ pages of generic NPCs organized into useful catagories like Thieves Guild, City Watch, etc.
Appendix
Index
Quote from: ggroy;395217Is it completely new original material?
Is there any direct cribbing from 3.5E SRD material?
1. Yes. By an A-List of game designers, no less.
2. No.
The wide range of NPC stat blocks are a nice addition. Quick game prep is getting easier all the time.
Personally, I thought the Gamemaster Guide totally rocks!
I can finally grok all the variables in Kingmaker Kingdom stat blocks now as well.
Especially liked the new Haunts & Hazards encounters as well.
A good resource for novice and veteran GM's alike!
The Haunts, the Chase mechanic and certainly the chapter worth of USABLE stat blocks are pretty darn awesome.
The material as far as I can tell isn't any cribbed from any of the DMG 3.x While there are similarities, there's not enough to say "Gee I should have saved my money." Trust me. It's a worthy investment for many GMs, especially for those looking at Pathfinder RPG and thinking "What's next?"
Has anyone else noticed the amount of shit-dumping of supplements that are starting to get published for Pathfinder. All those sorry companies that lost out when DND went 4th edition, are now turning their lazy attention to Pathfinder?
Paizo's game deserve better treatment than this.
Quote from: Lawbag;395474Has anyone else noticed the amount of shit-dumping of supplements that are starting to get published for Pathfinder. All those sorry companies that lost out when DND went 4th edition, are now turning their lazy attention to Pathfinder?
I haven't noticed. Can you cite some examples?
Quote from: Lawbag;395474Has anyone else noticed the amount of shit-dumping of supplements that are starting to get published for Pathfinder. All those sorry companies that lost out when DND went 4th edition, are now turning their lazy attention to Pathfinder?
Paizo's game deserve better treatment than this.
So far this shit-dumping looks like it has been "ghettoized" to the pdf market. A Pathfinder splat "glut" hasn't occurred much yet at the gaming store and distributor level.
Quote from: Garnfellow;395487I haven't noticed. Can you cite some examples?
http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG
Many of the Pathfinder 3PP titles are pdf only, and appears to be similar to the d20 glut variety. Typical stuff reminiscent of d20 glut such as tons of player classes and options, monsters, etc ... which looked like Mongoose could have cranked out.
Very few modules and campaign settings. It looks like the Pathfinder 3PP crowd doesn't want to tread that closely to Paizo's strengths (ie. modules, adventure paths, settings, etc ...). The few which have, are typically d20/OGL seasoned veterans like Expeditious Retreat Press, Necromancer, etc ...
Yeah I haven't really seen a lot of stuff just some random player stuff along with a few monster books. The majority of that has been localized to pdfs. I only have ONE actual 3rd party thing and even that is just one small book in the vast ocean of pdfs.
The locale stuff and few modules are generally written by guys that know their stuff. *cites Sunken Cities by Wolfgang and co.*
Quote from: Lawbag;395474Has anyone else noticed the amount of shit-dumping of supplements that are starting to get published for Pathfinder.
Just noticed Paizo's recent update to the Pathfinder release schedule.
http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/companion
http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/campaignSetting/pathfinderRPG
http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/modules/pathfinderRPG
It looks like Paizo themselves are starting to move into the "shit dumping" phase already, all on their own. Their Pathfinder "companion" and "campaign setting" supplement books look more and more marginal over 2010 and into 2011.
It looks like the sort of marginal splatbooks produced by WotC over the lifetime of 3E/3.5E D&D, or something Mongoose could have produced.
Not sure I'd call classic undead 'marginal' since they're taking existing srd undead and trying to fix them slightly.
I know there's a lot coming out that people might not have a use for, but for me the highlights still include the following: There's only ONE actual book for the RPG, Ultimate Magic, compared to WotC's constantly dropping stuff on dragon magic, book of nine swords and/or incarnum.
Thanks for doing my research for me. Xxx
Specifically what I meant by shit-sumping, were all the third-party products riding on the coat-tails of PF. The supplements are usually no different from all the lazy supplements which ruined 3.X editions, and from what I'm seeing here, its the same faces, reworking old rules and variants that you may have missed first time around.
Quote from: ggroy;397358It looks like Paizo themselves are starting to move into the "shit dumping" phase already, all on their own.
The more important question is: What are they going to sell you once they've bled this vein dry?
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;397404The more important question is: What are they going to sell you once they've bled this vein dry?
Good question.
One easy way is to recycle old out-of-print titles, such as their first AP "Rise of the Runelords" (RotRL). For example on the fifth anniversary of RotRL in 2012, they could release a limited edition hardcover book which compiles all of the RotRL AP books updated to the Pathfinder rpg ruleset. (ie. Similar to what was done with the "Shackled City" AP and hardcover book).
Another option is to leverage their reputation garnered from their Pathfinder work, and start releasing new rpg games (ie. science fiction, etc ...).
A third option is to cash out and sell the company while they're still on the upside, to somebody who has more cash than sense. :rolleyes:
Or they could shift emphasis to Planet Stories, building up their non-gaming business so that when the lull for Pathfinder hits the company won't be so dependent upon TRPG sales.
Or we could just enjoy the fact they continue to produce some high quality stuff like Carrion Crown AP.
Quote from: Nightfall;397428Or we could just enjoy the fact they continue to produce some high quality stuff like Carrion Crown AP.
The blurb to the AP books sound like a homage to Ravenloft.
It's more than just a 'blurb" or a homage. They created this back when Paizo first started out. Tar Barphon is kind of their "big bad" much like Azarghan(sp), the Demon Prince of Apes and Savages is for their jungle setting. I honestly feel they are taking a good shot at a horror based campaign and working it from the ground up using things like haunts, more detailed options for creatures like liches and bodaks, along with others to make this feel as much a fantasy horror game as it is a Pathfinder Game.
Quote from: Lawbag;397403Thanks for doing my research for me. Xxx
Specifically what I meant by shit-sumping, were all the third-party products riding on the coat-tails of PF. The supplements are usually no different from all the lazy supplements which ruined 3.X editions, and from what I'm seeing here, its the same faces, reworking old rules and variants that you may have missed first time around.
Wonder how long the Pathfinder 3PP market will last, before it falters.
If there is a Pathfinder 3PP bubble and it ends up bursting, it probably won't affect Paizo much at all. It may very well resemble a tree falling with nobody around to see or hear it.
The Serpent's Skull AP sounds like an Indiana Jones type adventure, in an African style type setting.
I'm not sure it's a bubble so much as Paizo is trying to keep itself as separate from reliance on other publishers to do adventures, extra classes and stuff, as much as build their world with the things they think works for it AND for the GMs and players.
Besides it's not like that the ONLY thing they do is Pathfinder RPG. Their GameMastery line works for ANY campaign, (fold out Maps, Item Cards, etc) and they clearly want to strengthen their publishing line with their Planet books.
Serpent Skull is kind of that with a mixture of a return of an older race versus the new races looking to cash in. Plus it's not like there's not other ways the PCs can go. I mean there's still Uraso and it's cultists and the undead boy king/god and his city state.
The entire Mwangia Expanse is all about exploration, as much as Varisia was/is, The River Kingdoms or even just places between existing nations.
Quote from: Nightfall;397434The entire Mwangia Expanse is all about exploration, as much as Varisia was/is, The River Kingdoms or even just places between existing nations.
I was using Golarion for my sandbox 4E D&D game last year. It was largely exploration in Varisia, and a few other places (ie. Absalom, etc ...) which had some supplement books released at the time (early to mid 2009).
At the time, I was only really interested in the setting and region type books. The monsters "revisited" books weren't really all the useful to me.
Ever since Pathfinder was released at Gencon 2009, there have been less and less supplement books which I found useful for my 4E game at the time. At this point, the few supplement books on Paizo's 2010-2011 schedule which may still hold my interest are, the "Lost Cities of Golarion" and maybe "Rule of Fear" (ie. region setting books). Otherwise most of the other books on the schedule don't appear to be that useful outside of Pathfinder.
Quote from: ggroy;397419One easy way is to recycle old out-of-print titles, such as their first AP "Rise of the Runelords" (RotRL). For example on the fifth anniversary of RotRL in 2012, they could release a limited edition hardcover book which compiles all of the RotRL AP books updated to the Pathfinder rpg ruleset. (ie. Similar to what was done with the "Shackled City" AP and hardcover book).
Another option is to leverage their reputation garnered from their Pathfinder work, and start releasing new rpg games (ie. science fiction, etc ...).
A third option is to cash out and sell the company while they're still on the upside, to somebody who has more cash than sense. :rolleyes:
You missed one! You missed one: reboot.
They could redo APs, but that's how many months worth of products? Five? And how many folks would really buy a redone AP that they already own? Some, to be sure, but that's still just a fraction of Pathfinder's share of the market.
They could produce other games, but their current good fortune springs from targeting D&D players. Their market share would drop significantly if they stepped away from that, particularly to produce a non-fantasy game.
They could sell. But I think the first thing a new owner would do is reboot, too.
All things considered, I'm betting when the vein runs dry, they start making noise about how the Pathfinder system is dated and re-create it, taking a step farther away from 3.5...
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;397486All things considered, I'm betting when the vein runs dry, they start making noise about how the Pathfinder system is dated and re-create it, taking a step farther away from 3.5...
Seanchai
Wonder how long until the vein runs dry.
Quote from: ggroy;397438Ever since Pathfinder was released at Gencon 2009, there have been less and less supplement books which I found useful for my 4E game at the time. At this point, the few supplement books on Paizo's 2010-2011 schedule which may still hold my interest are, the "Lost Cities of Golarion" and maybe "Rule of Fear" (ie. region setting books). Otherwise most of the other books on the schedule don't appear to be that useful outside of Pathfinder.
I'm liking Kingmaker. If you don't mind converting or creating some monsters, I think it'd work well with 4e.
Seanchai
Quote from: ggroy;397487Wonder how long until the vein runs dry.
I guess that depends on how quickly they're publishing books. There's only so much space in Golarion that they can cover - only so many races, areas, monsters, etc.. There are only so many rules tweaks they can make until they step farther away from 3.5. It seems to me that they're printing a lot of books. So, what, maybe a year? Year and a half?
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;397489I'm liking Kingmaker. If you don't mind converting or creating some monsters, I think it'd work well with 4e.
I like Kingmaker too. Though I don't think I'll ever play the AP from beginning to end.
I do pick up the Pathfinder AP books every month, largely to read like Dungeon Magazine.
Quote from: Seanchai;397490I guess that depends on how quickly they're publishing books. There's only so much space in Golarion that they can cover - only so many races, areas, monsters, etc.. There are only so many rules tweaks they can make until they step farther away from 3.5. It seems to me that they're printing a lot of books. So, what, maybe a year? Year and a half?
WotC spent 3+ years pumping out rather marginal books during the 3.5E era, after a year of hitting the "reset button" and cranking out the first several "Complete *" books.
The marginal WotC 3.5E stuff was showing up more frequently, sometime after mid-2004. Many of the 3.5E WotC splatbooks which showed up during 2005, 2006, and 2007 were largely of "shit-dumping" variety.
I suppose a big-fish like WotC was able to get away releasing tons of superfluous stuff during those years. Paizo probably would not be able to get away with such shenanigans. I can see Paizo's timeline of draining the vein dry, being probably shorter than three years.
Quote from: ggroy;397492WotC spent 3+ years pumping out rather marginal books during the 3.5E era, after a year of hitting the "reset button" and cranking out the first several "Complete *" books.
Shrug. I imagine most of what you consider marginal, I wouldn't.
However, I think there's a period near the end where it's easy to see that the products were different. They started mucking with the rules, changing assumptions, etc.. Tome of Shadows, Magic of Incarnum, Book of Nine Swords, et al., are examples. I imagine we'll start to see the same with Pathfinder.
Seanchai
Quote from: ggroy;397491I like Kingmaker too. Though I don't think I'll ever play the AP from beginning to end.
Me, neither. But I was curious as to how they'd do a sandbox module and I wanted the rules for running kingdoms. Now I imagine I'll just get the whole set, even though I already have book three and thought from a usability standpoint for me that it was meh.
Quote from: ggroy;397494Paizo probably would not be able to get away with such shenanigans. I can see Paizo's timeline of draining the vein dry, being probably shorter than three years.
Paizo has it's loyal fans, who will buy everything they produce. Depending on how much they need to take in from each product line, they might be able to survive for a time.
Especially buoyed by sales of game aids. There's a new player in town in that market - can't remember the name, but they're making condition markers and vinyl mats - and I'm curious to see what impact they'll have on Paizo, especially since they can use WotC's 4e trade dress.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;397542Shrug. I imagine most of what you consider marginal, I wouldn't.
However, I think there's a period near the end where it's easy to see that the products were different. They started mucking with the rules, changing assumptions, etc.. Tome of Shadows, Magic of Incarnum, Book of Nine Swords, et al., are examples. I imagine we'll start to see the same with Pathfinder.
What splatbooks would you consider non-marginal during the 3.5E era?
For me, it depended on the game. In one game I was DMing, one of the players wanted to use the "Book of Nine Swords", and I was willing to allow it.
More generally, the Wotc 3.5E books I felt were non-marginal and saw some use in my games (whether as a player or DM), were the first several "Complete *" books and Underdark. For an Eberron game I played in, the "Sharn: City of Towers" book was used quite a bit by the DM. In another game, one player used the "Expanded Psionics Handbook" quite a bit.
Quote from: Seanchai;397547Especially buoyed by sales of game aids. There's a new player in town in that market - can't remember the name, but they're making condition markers and vinyl mats - and I'm curious to see what impact they'll have on Paizo, especially since they can use WotC's 4e trade dress.
Gale Force Nine.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=54
Quote from: ggroy;397492WotC spent 3+ years pumping out rather marginal books during the 3.5E era, after a year of hitting the "reset button" and cranking out the first several "Complete *" books.
I sort of think of the weapons of legacy as the book "when the crap began". But I blame that as much on the layoff-induced "changing of the guard" as I do the vein being bled dry.
Quote from: ggroy;397548What splatbooks would you consider non-marginal during the 3.5E era?
For me, it depended on the game. In one game I was DMing, one of the players wanted to use the "Book of Nine Swords", and I was willing to allow it.
More generally, the Wotc 3.5E books I felt were non-marginal and saw some use in my games (whether as a player or DM), were the first several "Complete *" books and Underdark. For an Eberron game I played in, the "Sharn: City of Towers" book was used quite a bit by the DM. In another game, one player used the "Expanded Psionics Handbook" quite a bit.
I have a copy of the book of Nine Swords. A new guy joining my pathfinder group wants to play a Monk. I'm thinking of letting him play a sword sage or some such thing. I never got to use the book, but I used to spend a lot of time on the 3.5 forums and everyone there regarded it as the best splat book ever written for 3.5, almost as important as the players hand book, and much more fair.
Just noticed this.
http://www.facebook.com/paizo
Quote from: Paizo's facebook pageNew products announced at Gen Con: Ultimate Magic (April), Ultimate Combat (August), Tian Xia World Guide (August) plus tons of other stuff.
"Tian Xia" appears to Paizo's version of an asian themed setting, probably similar in spirit to older settings like Rokugan, Kara-Tur, etc ... Most likely the Pathfinder AP starting in August 2011, will also be asian themed (tentatively titled "Jade Regent").
From chatter on Paizo's message boards, there's speculation and assertions that both "Ultimate Magic" and "Ultimate Combat" will include all kinds of asian themed stuff.
If I had to guess, "Ultimate Combat" will probably be Paizo's version of the "Book of Nine Swords". How tied in together these two "Ultimate *" books will be, is unknown at the moment. For example, are they trying to replicate a "wuxia" style of combat and powers?
As to whether these particular PF titles are of the "shit dumping" variety, will probably be dependent on how one feels about asian themed rpg stuff and/or whether one objects to it being "shoehorned" into the Pathfinder rpg ruleset.
EDIT: Personally, if I really wanted to play an asian themed rpg, I would probably play something like a non-d20 version of "Legend of the Five Rings" instead of D&D/Pathfinder.
I had fun back in the day running in Kara-Tur. It's a fun setting and a nice change of pace product wise. Especially if you want to play a foreigner in a strange land game. Which I hope Jade Regent supports.
Quote from: Mostlyjoe;398102I had fun back in the day running in Kara-Tur. It's a fun setting and a nice change of pace product wise. Especially if you want to play a foreigner in a strange land game. Which I hope Jade Regent supports.
I remember the 1E AD&D Oriental Adventures book and the Kara-Tur box set. They looked neat at the time, but I never got around to ever playing it back in the day.
It was decent. Not as cool as say L5R, but it was a nice change of pace.
From the sound of it Pathfinder's setting will be less Japan, more China. That should be nice.
Tian Xia setting book? That sounds cool.
I got the Gamemastery Guide, read through its first chapters at the moment, which I found pretty cool. Didn't agree with some of the stuff there, but it's a decent treaty for any thinking gamer. More on the rest of the book later.
IIRC it's been implied that the 'next planet over' from Golarion is a Barsoom-like red planet, so they could do some sword & planet stuff for a bit.
On the subject of "shit dumping", I looked through my bookcase full of old d20 glut stuff, and compared it to the Pathfinder supplements I have or skimmed through previously. In particular, I found all the old Mongoose d20 crap I still had around.
Looking through the Pathfinder supplement books on various monsters, such as:
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Monsters Revisited
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Dragons Revisited
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Dungeon Denizens Revisited
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Book of the Damned—Volume 1: Princes of Darkness
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Horrors Revisited
these titles read more and more like various Mongoose Slayer's Guides and other similar titles, but with better presentation, artwork, editing, etc ...
Looking through the Pathfinder supplement books on various races, such as:
- Pathfinder Companion: Elves of Golarion
- Pathfinder Companion: Dwarves of Golarion
- Pathfinder Companion: Gnomes of Golarion
- Pathfinder Player Companion: Orcs of Golarion
these titles read more and more like a condensed version of Mongoose's Quintessential books on particular races, but with better presentation, artwork, editing, etc ...
Various Pathfinder supplement books on other topics such as pantheons, planes, NPCs, groups, cults, equipment, treasure, etc ... such as:
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Gods & Magic
- Pathfinder Chronicles: The Great Beyond—A Guide to the Multiverse
- Pathfinder Chronicles: NPC Guide
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Treasures Revisited
- Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide
- Pathfinder Companion: Adventurer's Armory
these titles read more and more like generic books (on the same subjects) from various d20 publishers like Mongoose, White Wolf, Alderac, Bastion, Fantasy Flight, Fast Forward, etc .., but with better presentation, artwork, editing, etc ...
I have no idea what exactly the title, "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society" is about, nor what purposes it serves.
Looking at what's on tap for the rest of this year and next year, there's the Pathfinder supplement titles:
- Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Misfit Monsters Redeemed
- Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Book of the Damned—Volume 2: Lords of Chaos
- Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Rival Guide
- Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Undead Revisited
- Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Dungeons of Golarion
- Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide
- Pathfinder Player Companion: Halflings of Golarion
- Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Purity
- Pathfinder Player Companion: Humans of Golarion
- Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Balance
- Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Magic
If one removed the Paizo/Pathfinder name + logos from these supplement books, I would have thought these titles sounded like the sort of d20 shovelware crap that Mongoose, Fast Forward, Fantasy Flight, etc ... could have released during the d20 glut. If one didn't know any better, it sounds like Paizo has already been scraping the bottom of the barrel.
More generally, it seems like if one removed the Paizo/Pathfinder name + logo from the above mentioned Pathfinder supplement books, changed all the pages to black and white (instead of color), and substituted in crappier artwork, it wouldn't surprising if most of these Pathfinder supplement books could be mistaken for the type of crap that Mongoose and other d20 companies shoveled onto the market during the d20 glut.
In this sense, Paizo has been "shit dumping" shovelware onto the market since 2008, albeit shovelware which has been well produced and professionally edited (unlike Mongoose during the d20 glut).
Quote from: ggroy;399461In this sense, Paizo has been "shit dumping" shovelware onto the market since 2008, albeit shovelware which has been well produced and professionally edited (unlike Mongoose during the d20 glut).
What you say is just cursorily based on titles alone. Not on content. How many of these books have you read? I've read quite a few of them personally. These are not comparable to Mongoose titles and such in terms of actual content, since these are generally shockful of specific (Golarion) flavor, are generally extremely coherent, and not vanilla piece-meal crap put back together in editing. There is no comparison to be made.
Quote from: Benoist;399479What you say is just cursorily based on titles alone. Not on content. How many of these books have you read?
I've read through the ones from 2008 and 2009.
The 2010 ones I haven't picked up many of them yet. Just skimmed through them at a gaming store.
Quote from: ggroy;399485I've read through the ones from 2008 and 2009.
The 2010 ones I haven't picked up many of them yet. Just skimmed through them at a gaming store.
Then we must have a very different appreciation of Pathfinder publications, because I think that they are light years better than the Quintessential and Slayer's Guides series of Mongoose in CONTENT, not only in editing and layout.
Quote from: Benoist;399479These are not comparable to Mongoose titles and such in terms of actual content, since these are generally shockful of specific (Golarion) flavor
The Mongoose crap didn't mention anything in regard to specific worlds.
In regard to the Golarion specific stuff, some of it sounds like typical generic fantasy lore.
What kind of prior research was done for these titles (whether Paizo or Mongoose or somebody else), is hard to say judging by what they have written.
Quote from: Benoist;399479are generally extremely coherent, and not vanilla piece-meal crap put back together in editing.
This I agree with. Paizo puts a lot of effort into editing and presentation. In contrast, Mongoose put in a minimal amount of effort back in the d20 glut days.
I don't have a link offhand, but IIRC Paizo's CEO had a previous career in editing in an unrelated niche.
Quote from: Benoist;399486Then we must have a very different appreciation of Pathfinder publications,
I tend to read things to see how much of it is already familiar to me, and looking more closely at stuff which is new and/or unfamiliar.
Quote from: Benoist;399486because I think that they are light years better than the Quintessential and Slayer's Guides series of Mongoose in CONTENT, not only in editing and layout.
I haven't looked at the crunch heavy stuff that closely from the Pathfinder supplements titles, to see how much of it is overpowered or too underpowered.
So far I've only really read through the fluff of crunch heavy books.
It's just that your comparison seems completely superficial to me. You might conclude for yourself that then, this is Paizo "shit dumping" on the market as during the least producing days of the d20 era... but personally, I'm just not seeing it. The comparison seems like a big stretch to me.
PS: note that it doesn't mean I fully endorse the Pathfinder catalogue as utterly awesome in its originality. It's not, and it could be much, much better in terms of organization of content than just copying, in terms of titles, what has gone before. That I agree with.
The ones I did like (or found useful) were the area or region supplements books, such as: the River Kingdoms, City of Strangers, Heart of the Jungle, Sargava, Cheliax, Absalom, Korvosa, etc ...
We agree. This is some of the best stuff right there.
During the d20 glut era, I don't remember many companies producing lots of area or region type books, which could be placed into a game easily.
Mongoose had three or four. One was an orc villiage. Another IIRC, was a city in the sky.
Green Ronin had a few. One was an elf village. Another was a drow fortress. There were the Freeport books.
Quote from: Benoist;399500PS: note that it doesn't mean I fully endorse the Pathfinder catalogue as utterly awesome in its originality. It's not, and it could be much, much better in terms of organization of content than just copying, in terms of titles, what has gone before. That I agree with.
For some of the titles, it's not exactly that easy to produce highly original new stuff. This would be the "revisited" books on various monsters, treasure, etc ... as well as the player books on races. Titles covering NPCs, guilds, groups/cults/organizations, etc ... tend to be somewhat generic too.
What exactly is going on with a title like "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society", I'm not entirely sure. When I first skimmed through a copy, at first I though it was a "Volo Guide" group of some sort.
One of the few Mongoose d20 glut books which could measure up to a Pathfinder equivalent book, are the respective books about dragons.
Though this may not be quite a fair comparison, considering that that author of Mongoose Slayer's Guide to Dragons is Gary Gygax.
Quote from: ggroy;399518For some of the titles, it's not exactly that easy to produce highly original new stuff. This would be the "revisited" books on various monsters, treasure, etc ... as well as the player books on races. Titles covering NPCs, guilds, groups/cults/organizations, etc ... tend to be somewhat generic too.
Agreed.
Quote from: ggroy;399518What exactly is going on with a title like "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society", I'm not entirely sure. When I first skimmed through a copy, at first I though it was a "Volo Guide" group of some sort.
From my understanding, it's a group/organization book that basically provide this overarching plot device the PCs can confront or be part of all over the world. It gives adventure opportunities, hires the PCs, tests them, provides contacts and refuges, etc etc. It's similar in function to the Harpers of the FR.
Quote from: Benoist;399592From my understanding, it's a group/organization book that basically provide this overarching plot device the PCs can confront or be part of all over the world. It gives adventure opportunities, hires the PCs, tests them, provides contacts and refuges, etc etc. It's similar in function to the Harpers of the FR.
Sort of like a "Freemasons" type group?
Quote from: Benoist;399479There is no comparison to be made.
I agreed about the content, but you can make some comparisons. It's not as if his entire comparison is off base.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;399603I agreed about the content, but you can make some comparisons. It's not as if his entire comparison is off base.
Seanchai
It's not entirely off base. We've worked that out. *nod*
Quote from: ggroy;399593Sort of like a "Freemasons" type group?
Sort of, yes. A secret society of watchers with cells all over Golarion, who study the mysteries of the world, intervene when necessary, explore unknown regions, and so on, so forth. They can be patrons, bosses, or competitors to the PCs in various ways. The PCs of course can become part of the organization themselves.
I just got the book.
It has some really helpful material in it. I like their charts.
I'm just shocked at the amount of cheating and subterfuge they recommend game masters participate in.
Personally I think it is worth every penny if you run Pathfinder games. It isn't a necessary resource, but it is useful.
If you don't want to spend the money for the hardcover and you don't mind reading on a computer screen or have the ability to print the book, just buy the pdf. I always get both that way I can print off any useful information (npc's, charts, etc) and have a portable(digital) copy to carry with me all the time on my flashdrive.
Yeah. There's lots of (pro-narrative/story) stuff in there that I don't necessarily agree with, or would debate with guys on the Paizo team (James Jacobs, I'm looking at you), but all in all, the book's worth the money. It'll be a useful tool for DMs.
It's helped me when I have to get some pre-gen generic NPCs. :)
I'm not a big fan of "how to be a GM" chapters and a majority of the book seemed useless to me.
The chapter with pre-statted NPCs looked like it was worth it's weight in gold.
Quote from: Cranewings;402872I'm just shocked at the amount of cheating and subterfuge they recommend game masters participate in.
Oh, that's just standard fare. It's the messageboard drivel they never tire of, as in, story comes first, player choices don't matter as long as the players don't realize, and so on. Fortunately, huge swaths of the book survive intact even if you block these lines out.
Still, I lost most interest in Paizo's RPG output when they switched to their own "spin" on 3.5 and switched the full "remade this" and "reconceptualized that" supplement tread mill into full gear. Consisting, mind you, of material which either copy-pastes WotC stuff (like feats from Complete Arcane) or so shoddily produced stuff of their own as to require its own FAQ (e.g. Dazzling Display in the Core Rulebook).
I didn't even pick up
Kingmaker, even though I've been wanting that for years. I understand the awesome production values, but why, say, not use Necromancer Games' Wilderlands box instead?
Quote from: Windjammer;403441I didn't even pick up Kingmaker, even though I've been wanting that for years. I understand the awesome production values, but why, say, not use Necromancer Games' Wilderlands box instead?
By the time I found about Necromancer's version of Wilderlands, it was already difficult to find. It got lost in the d20 glut.