Pathfinder ditches the Drow.

Shrieking Banshee · June 03, 2023, 05:42:09 PM

I think Drow are fun, but yeah this is absolutely dumpable. Not everything needs to look like D&D.

Itachi · June 03, 2023, 05:57:27 PM

Githyanki > Drow.

hedgehobbit · June 03, 2023, 08:34:46 PM

Nuff Said

Abraxus · June 03, 2023, 09:07:56 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2023, 09:29:57 AM
Why is anyone surprised by this? Paizo is leaving the OGL. WotC's antics pretty much pissed in the pool for them (and anyone else).

It would be an non-issue except for all their so called we " can't use Drow because of the OGL" thru are keeping a bunch of OGL content just re-skinning and filing off the serial numbers off. Yet somehow they can't do it with the Drow. It's Paizo being cowards and lacking the stones just admit that they are to Woke for the Drow.

Fheredin · June 03, 2023, 09:49:21 PM

Quote from: Skullking on June 03, 2023, 10:00:24 AM
Quote from: Fheredin on June 03, 2023, 08:15:27 AM
Pathfinder will probably replace it with their own take, which I can scarcely imagine going worse.

Have you not seen Paizo lately, I'm expecting rainbow elves.

That would be the most glorious mistake ever made. I know quite a few edgelord players who would love to be rainbow elves going on a quest for the Hentainomicon.

Ghostmaker · June 04, 2023, 12:10:48 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on June 03, 2023, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2023, 09:29:57 AM
Why is anyone surprised by this? Paizo is leaving the OGL. WotC's antics pretty much pissed in the pool for them (and anyone else).

It would be an non-issue except for all their so called we " can't use Drow because of the OGL" thru are keeping a bunch of OGL content just re-skinning and filing off the serial numbers off. Yet somehow they can't do it with the Drow. It's Paizo being cowards and lacking the stones just admit that they are to Woke for the Drow.

Anything specific? Because they seem to be doing some pretty heavy jettisoning of a LOT of things.

Like alignment. Spell schools. Aasimar/tiefling (though those are getting rolled into a single heritage, nephilim).

Wtrmute · June 04, 2023, 04:01:50 AM

Quote from: Koltar on June 02, 2023, 11:55:02 PM
Gee, in "GURPS' it is much simpler - they are simply called the "Dark Elves", or if I'm being sarcastic - Those really Grumpy Elves". That easily avoids the issue of a copyrighted name, or players obsessed with reading paperbacks by a certAin author.

-Ed C.

Is it copyrighted, though? I was under the impression that "drow" is merely a variant of "trow," which itself is a corruption of "troll" you find in Norse-influenced areas of Scotland like Orkney.

VisionStorm · June 04, 2023, 07:11:34 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on June 03, 2023, 08:34:46 PM

Nuff Said

All I see in that pic is a couple of white chicks acting like they're constipated. Where are the Dark Elves?

On topic, I don't play Pathfinder and I'm unlikely ever to, so I don't care. But this comes off lazy AF. And for all the people speculating on stuff already covered by the article posted in the OP, they already said that they're replacing drow with snake men or something completely unrelated to elves. Dark Elves are being wiped out from Pathfinder altogether.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 04, 2023, 12:10:48 AM
Quote from: Abraxus on June 03, 2023, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 03, 2023, 09:29:57 AM
Why is anyone surprised by this? Paizo is leaving the OGL. WotC's antics pretty much pissed in the pool for them (and anyone else).

It would be an non-issue except for all their so called we " can't use Drow because of the OGL" thru are keeping a bunch of OGL content just re-skinning and filing off the serial numbers off. Yet somehow they can't do it with the Drow. It's Paizo being cowards and lacking the stones just admit that they are to Woke for the Drow.
Anything specific? Because they seem to be doing some pretty heavy jettisoning of a LOT of things.

Like alignment. Spell schools. Aasimar/tiefling (though those are getting rolled into a single heritage, nephilim).

I actually like the idea of calling half-celestials "Nephilim". It kinda fits and uses a term form actual RL myth rather than silly made up words.

S'mon · June 04, 2023, 08:43:09 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on June 04, 2023, 07:11:34 AM
All I see in that pic is a couple of white chicks acting like they're constipated. Where are the Dark Elves?

1. Dark Elves are white (except in D&D).
2. It's the constipation that makes them so angry.

Grognard GM · June 04, 2023, 08:46:20 AM

Quote from: S'mon on June 04, 2023, 08:43:09 AM
1. Dark Elves are white (except in D&D).

It's almost like they're (bile rises in throat) based on European folklore (begins to vomit at the toxicity.)

Grognard GM · June 04, 2023, 08:48:08 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on June 04, 2023, 07:11:34 AM
All I see in that pic is a couple of white chicks acting like they're constipated. Where are the Dark Elves?

All I see are 3 African-American underwear models, where are the Dark Elves?

S'mon · June 04, 2023, 08:51:22 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on June 04, 2023, 08:46:20 AM
Quote from: S'mon on June 04, 2023, 08:43:09 AM
1. Dark Elves are white (except in D&D).

It's almost like they're (bile rises in throat) based on European folklore (begins to vomit at the toxicity.)

Regular Dark Elves as you might see in Fighting Fantasy or Warhammer are actually way closer to folklore elves than are the Tolkienesque 'nice' elves.

I think Gygax's Drow are more based on his divorce experience than anything else really.

S'mon · June 04, 2023, 08:53:09 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on June 04, 2023, 08:46:20 AM
Quote from: S'mon on June 04, 2023, 08:43:09 AM
1. Dark Elves are white (except in D&D).

It's almost like they're (bile rises in throat) based on European folklore (begins to vomit at the toxicity.)

That Warhammer pic seems based on the look of '80s British punk/New Romantic singers like Toyah, Siouxsie Sue, Kate Bush et al.

VisionStorm · June 04, 2023, 09:12:17 AM

Quote from: S'mon on June 04, 2023, 08:43:09 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on June 04, 2023, 07:11:34 AM
All I see in that pic is a couple of white chicks acting like they're constipated. Where are the Dark Elves?

1. Dark Elves are white (except in D&D).
2. It's the constipation that makes them so angry.

Aren't dark elves in Norse mythology described as "Swarthy", though?

Though, I suppose what exactly constitutes "swarthy" skin can vary a lot, and potentially encompass tanned "white".

Quote from: Grognard GM on June 04, 2023, 08:48:08 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on June 04, 2023, 07:11:34 AM
All I see in that pic is a couple of white chicks acting like they're constipated. Where are the Dark Elves?

*snip pic of real dark elves*

All I see are 3 African-American underwear models, where are the Dark Elves?

How do you know that they were American? How do you know that they weren't Kenyan or something? Why are you denying existence of marginalized people of colour from around the globe, you white devil oppressor? Your privilege is showing!

S'mon · June 04, 2023, 10:03:56 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on June 04, 2023, 09:12:17 AM
Aren't dark elves in Norse mythology described as "Swarthy", though?

Though, I suppose what exactly constitutes "swarthy" skin can vary a lot, and potentially encompass tanned "white".

No, they're svart alfar - black elves or dark elves. Germanic languages have a lot fewer words* than English for similar concepts. Anyway Norse 'Dark Elves' are dwarves & trolls, not pretty boys & pretty girls.

*This RPG conversation in Swedish looks incredibly racist, if you assume a 1:1 match with Anglo-American English - https://forum.frialigan.se/viewtopic.php?t=11167 - Google Translate comes up with such gems as The elf - or for that matter straight-backed human - who knocks on the gate of a stronghold of black people should immediately be regarded as a renegade. Conversely, the orc who would even come up with the idea of entering into alliances with work team dwarves would make himself impossible with his own kind. The 1987 edition states, bluntly, that characters are wise to avoid casting characters who are black as they are "disliked by most other intelligent races"