Just a news story that popped up on my feed today. The justification that Drow are too closely tied to D&D, and therefore are a bit risky in the post-OGL era, makes sense. However, it also seems like a convenient excuse for Paizo to save themselves some SJW related headaches in the future.

https://www.wargamer.com/pathfinder/drow-retcon

I suspect they would have done it anyway considering how pro-scold Paizo is.

I never liked Pathfinder anyway.

Pity. This feels like a capitulation to WotC's aim to revoke things like the SRDs. As well as pointless in the face of WotC making 5e Creative Commons or whatever.

The drow are awesome. Their whole society and religion in the forgotten realms is a pretty cool and unique concept. I don't know much of them in Pathfinder, but I suspect a woke attitude in corporate is causing their players to miss out on some really interesting plotlines, NPCs, and PC character openings.

Quote from: KindaMeh on June 02, 2023, 09:55:58 PM
Pity. This feels like a capitulation to WotC's aim to revoke things like the SRDs. As well as pointless in the face of WotC making 5e Creative Commons or whatever.

The drow are awesome. Their whole society and religion in the forgotten realms is a pretty cool and unique concept. I don't know much of them in Pathfinder, but I suspect a woke attitude in corporate is causing their players to miss out on some really interesting plotlines, NPCs, and PC character openings.

CC By, which means you still have to give them free publicity and promote their network effect.

Gee, in "GURPS' it is much simpler - they are simply called the "Dark Elves", or if I'm being sarcastic - Those really Grumpy Elves".  That easily avoids the issue of a copyrighted name, or players obsessed with reading paperbacks by a certAin author.

-Ed C.

Meh.

I dropped the OGL for my system probably 5 years ago, requiring me to go back to original sources or my creativity for its magic system and monsters, and I'd say it's definitely stronger for not being just another D&D clone.

Frankly, I don't need Drow in my setting because the default elves are caste-based religious totalitarians (with all non-elves at the bottom and only their religion allowed, which teaches its a sin for non-elves to worship the elven gods). Basically the capricious and vain creatures from a lot of the folklore.

PC elves are all members of the Elven "dark caste"; unpersons who refuse to conform to their place in elven society and who need to flee the elven lands lest they be killed by the Elven Inquisition and their Wild Hunts in order to "recycle" their souls back into their proper place in elven society (elves reincarnate).

Basically I don't need the concept of Drow for my setting because I already have evil elves (which I wouldn't have if I hadn't decided to drop the OGL).

So, I'm okay with WotC having their "win" of people continuing to abandon its OGL/SRD because D&D's OGL/SRD has been an anchor around the neck of creativity in the fantasy ttrpg genre for over two decades now... it's time the fantasy genre to grow past its tired ideas (made even more drab as the old lore is memory-holed in favor of woke agitprop).

Can't say I'm surprised.

I have always found the Drow to have really odd flavor, even by D&D race standards. They are easily one of the weakest executions of the dark elf trope I've ever seen, with their only redeeming trait being they look better than most other dark elves on artwork. But even that's a lie because according to the lore, Drow get sunburns, so if the lighting is strong enough to actually see the character, their skin should be peeling.

Pathfinder will probably replace it with their own take, which I can scarcely imagine going worse.

Why is anyone surprised by this? Paizo is leaving the OGL. WotC's antics pretty much pissed in the pool for them (and anyone else).

Quote from: Fheredin on June 03, 2023, 08:15:27 AM
Pathfinder will probably replace it with their own take, which I can scarcely imagine going worse.

Have you not seen Paizo lately, I'm expecting rainbow elves.

Quote from: Skullking on June 03, 2023, 10:00:24 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on June 03, 2023, 08:15:27 AM
Pathfinder will probably replace it with their own take, which I can scarcely imagine going worse.

Have you not seen Paizo lately, I'm expecting rainbow elves.

As evil elves?

Quote from: Skullking on June 03, 2023, 10:00:24 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on June 03, 2023, 08:15:27 AM
Pathfinder will probably replace it with their own take, which I can scarcely imagine going worse.

Have you not seen Paizo lately, I'm expecting rainbow elves.

To be honest? No, I haven't. I don't bother with obvious woke garbage so have no clue how much further up their own rectum they've managed to crawl.

In my experience their lore has always D&D with 20% more woke. Now that WotC is close to 100% woke saturation, their lore is basically identical. All races are genderfluid oppressed by the unseen cishetwhitepatriarchy who rules all their prom hosting coffee shop kingdoms.

Quote from: Chris24601 on June 03, 2023, 07:26:22 AM
Meh.

I dropped the OGL for my system probably 5 years ago, requiring me to go back to original sources or my creativity for its magic system and monsters, and I'd say it's definitely stronger for not being just another D&D clone.

Frankly, I don't need Drow in my setting because the default elves are caste-based religious totalitarians (with all non-elves at the bottom and only their religion allowed, which teaches its a sin for non-elves to worship the elven gods). Basically the capricious and vain creatures from a lot of the folklore.

PC elves are all members of the Elven "dark caste"; unpersons who refuse to conform to their place in elven society and who need to flee the elven lands lest they be killed by the Elven Inquisition and their Wild Hunts in order to "recycle" their souls back into their proper place in elven society (elves reincarnate).

Basically I don't need the concept of Drow for my setting because I already have evil elves (which I wouldn't have if I hadn't decided to drop the OGL).

So, I'm okay with WotC having their "win" of people continuing to abandon its OGL/SRD because D&D's OGL/SRD has been an anchor around the neck of creativity in the fantasy ttrpg genre for over two decades now... it's time the fantasy genre to grow past its tired ideas (made even more drab as the old lore is memory-holed in favor of woke agitprop).

Sounds cool. Reminds me of The Spire take on elves.

Quote from: Koltar on June 02, 2023, 11:55:02 PM
Gee, in "GURPS' it is much simpler - they are simply called the "Dark Elves", or if I'm being sarcastic - Those really Grumpy Elves".  That easily avoids the issue of a copyrighted name, or players obsessed with reading paperbacks by a certAin author.

-Ed C.

The Dark Elves of Yrth in GURPS Banestorm are just ordinary elves that are racist against humans.

Quote from: Fheredin on June 03, 2023, 08:15:27 AM
I have always found the Drow to have really odd flavor, even by D&D race standards. They are easily one of the weakest executions of the dark elf trope I've ever seen,

They might not be to your particular taste, but saying they're a weak concept is just ridiculous. A Matriarchal system, ran by a female Priestess class, under the sway of an evil Spider-Goddess. It has some unique concepts, and some cool features. Fully thought out and crystalized.

You'd be on stronger ground talking about regular D&D Elves and Dwarves being too derivative of Tolkien, whereas at least the Drow have some originality.