Been thinking about collecting/picking these up on eBay and was wondering if anyone had done any reviews and comparisons of these big modules.
I am intrigued by 1st to 20th level campaigns, and these seem to fit the bill.
Which ones are worth paying for, as a set of 6 isn't cheap.
Generally they are all worth it. I would point out the AP from Pathfinder doesn't run the full 1-20 but some times between 13 to 17.
That being said here are my favorites:
1 - Curse of the Crimson Throne
2 - Carrion Crown
3 - Kingmaker
4 - Rise of the Runelords
5 - Legacy of Fire
6 - Council of Thieves
7 - Second Darkness
If you want a more detailed reason, I'll just wait for your response. But suffice to say, Curse is the best for me because it's set mostly in the same city for a long period of time other than short jaunt out. So it's one of the best city modules other than Shackled City. Carrion Crown I like because I love Gothic/Horror/Dark Fantasy. And this is some good stuff. Kingmaker is the ultimate D&D sandbox adventure. Your PCs can do just about ANYTHING there. But mostly they can be their own rulers, be heroes, be whatever they want. Runelords offers the best in terms of a dash of everything along side D&D tropes.
Seven pages of reviews available here (http://www.orava.org/orava/weblog/tag/pathfinder). Also, the RPGgeek reviews of the "Kingmaker" adventure path are quite informative (http://rpggeek.com/rpgseries/3399/kingmaker). If you can understand German, some reviews of other adventure paths are up here (http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=1741).
Also, the Paizo boards have a subsection (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePath/generalDiscussion) dedicated to adventure paths in general, and there's several threads where the comparative merits of the published adventure paths are discussed. The consensus is that different adventure paths display different strenghts, so it's really very much up to a) what you prefer thematically and b) where your group sits on the wide spectrum between heavily scripted adventures and open ended scenarios.
As for pre-Pathfinder times - it's much harder to retrieve reviews of Shackled City, Age of Worms, and Savage Tide, which were published in Dungeon magazine and would involve (I think) a more substantive financial investment to get hold of in their entirety. Actually, not Shackled City - because you can buy the hardcover at thebookdepository.com - which makes it the cheapest option over all.
Wind is correct about Shackled City. It's currently pretty darn cheap to get and it still fairly widely available. Age of Worms and Savage Tide are unfortunately not available in that format. (Something I wish that Paizo HAD been allowed to by WotC before the change over to 4th edition.)
But his links are helpful and certainly more useful than my opinions. (I know I undermine myself. Yay me! :p :) )
thanks for all the heads up and links.
Quote from: Nightfall;465266Generally they are all worth it. I would point out the AP from Pathfinder doesn't run the full 1-20 but some times between 13 to 17.
That being said here are my favorites:
1 - Curse of the Crimson Throne
2 - Carrion Crown
3 - Kingmaker
4 - Rise of the Runelords
5 - Legacy of Fire
6 - Council of Thieves
7 - Second Darkness
Any thoughts on Serpent's Skull?
Also, why are CoT and SD ranked last? (I don't have them--- just curious to know.)
Quote from: FASERIP;465342Any thoughts on Serpent's Skull?
Also, why are CoT and SD ranked last? (I don't have them--- just curious to know.)
My major gripe with SD is the fact it's kind ALL of the place. Yes you do a good portion of traveling in both Serpent's Skull and Rise of the Runelords. But it's a LOGICAL progression. It's kind of less so with SD as you go from a pirate town, to a deserted island, to elven ruins to the Darklands, to elf lands BACK to the Darklands. It's just not...cohesive.
I rank CoT above it but not in my top 5 primarily because the major overall antagonist isn't much to worry about. That being said, I DO appreciate the fact Council of Thieves is primarily in ONE location or at least in and around the city of Westcrown. That plus all of Part 2/The Sixfold Trial, is a pretty sweet chance for PCs to do some ACTUAL roleplaying, makes it MUCH higher on my scale of enjoyment.
In terms of Serpent's Skull, it's pretty much a jungle trek after you get past the first part of the AP. So it has some Alex Quartermain/Indiana Jones type deal going with it. While I wasn't thrilled by it, it was SOLIDLY done and really the meaty parts after one kept it going.
Thanks for the run-down.
Another question: are any of the AP support products* worthwhile or especially useful, or are these just gamer tchotches?
* referring to things like this (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy85jv), this (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/pathfinderChronicles/v5748btpy86v0), and this (http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfinderChronicles/v5748btpy8d50).
Quote from: FASERIP;465770Thanks for the run-down.
Another question: are any of the AP support products* worthwhile or especially useful, or are these just gamer tchotches?
* referring to things like this (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy85jv), this (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/p/paizoPublishingLLC/pathfinder/pathfinderChronicles/v5748btpy86v0), and this (http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfinderChronicles/v5748btpy8d50).
Not sure. I got the item cards for Second Darkness, and some generic ones from Paizo, but they ultimately saw little use. If you go for cards at all, I think the ones which specialize on NPCs are better (e.g. 'Urban NPCs', 'Friends and Foes', and so on), but these are not AP-specific. In any case, cards of any sort would be a low priority in my estimate.
1. Try to see if you can get a used copy of the old or new Golarion campaign book, that's what I'd shoot for straight away - I think a lot of the reference to otherwise unspecified location and deities in the APs will make a lot more sense then. Also handy even if you end up adapting the AP to another campaign setting or homebrew. Also, it's much better bang for back ratio than nearly every other non-rule product from Paizo.
2. The AP-specific support product I'd rather go for are the pricey and slim support books in the Chronicles line. Some of them support the AP really nicely, e.g. the 'Guide to Korvosa' for Curse of the Crimson Throne, or 'Dark Markets of Katapesh' for Legacy of Fire, or 'Rule of Fear' for Carrion Crown. Beware though, some of the same things for other APs are good products in their own right but do not support the AP really - e.g. 'River Kingdoms' for Kingmaker, which you linked to, covers regions quite remote from the AP and would be rather useful if you flashed out additional NPCs that come from those regions.
3. Some of the Gamemastery flipmats are really well done. I only got three or so, but the one with the pirate island and sandy beach is really nicely done.
On the whole though, I'd not buy too much at once. The real joy is with customizing the AP to your own needs and desires, and sometimes less is more.
False,
The Map Folios are good but after Council of Thieves, the maps become less...detailed. At least in comparison to Second Darkness, Rise of the Runelords, Legacy of Fire, Curse of the Crimson Throne and as mentioned, Council of Thieves.
These are VERY useful because they give the DM smaller maps to work with in terms of either showing the PCs OR drawing them. (especially for specific encounters)
The GameMastery Item cards are good, but it depends on whether your PCs want to keep track of their loot or not. I like em. But I don't always get to use them.
The Campaign Settings vary in terms of some (like the Guide to the River Kingdoms) are only tangential useful. The Guide to Korsova is a must for PCs AND GM running Curse of the Crimson Throne. Same for Katapesh in Legacy of Fire. I can honestly say that Guide to the River Kingdoms doesn't help much for Kingmaker but it's still nice to see what else is out there in the River Kingdoms. Beyond that...it's pick and choose.
I hope that helped.
Thanks for the answers, guys. (I'll definitely be picking up the setting book when I get the chance.)
One more question: is the Harrow deck of any use or interest with Carrion Crown AP? I've read a couple of the CC installments and it really sounds extraneous.
Uhm I'm planning on using it. It's a good way to help PCs and there are 6 cards from it that are useful in the course of the campaign.
I certainly plan on rewarding my players with the ability to draw cards from it.
I also used the Harrow Deck to moderately good effect of Curse of the Crimson Throne. (Especially at the end when they got the Harrow Deck of Many Things.)
The Harrow Deck is a cute little prop. I guess if you and your group finds that sort of thing an aid in making the game more interesting/immersive might be a judgement for you.
Psion/Alan,
Eh I consider more than just a prop, cute or otherwise. Basically because it helps to add a Gothic element to the game. That being said, you are right that's not necessary to play for Carrion Crown.
What is necessary, however, (and again in my opinion) is a great soundtrack AND Syrinscape.
Quote from: Nightfall;465348In terms of Serpent's Skull, it's pretty much a jungle trek after you get past the first part of the AP. So it has some Alex Quartermain/Indiana Jones type deal going with it. While I wasn't thrilled by it, it was SOLIDLY done and really the meaty parts after one kept it going.
It's pretty much only a jungle trek for books 1-3, mainly book 2.
Book 4 is mainly an assortment of mini dungeon crawls with a horror sub-plot and a very cool little role-playing interlude.
Books 5-6 are actually darklands (*coff*underdark*coff*) forays. Its sort like a slightly more self contained D1-3.
Book 1 has been pretty popular at the Paizo forums. Book 3 has been greeted cooly, which is a shame because I think it looks to be one of the moodier books. It is very sandboxy, and I think most of the critics fail to see it as a sandbox, and see it as an above ground dungeon crawl with a bunch of boring fights.
Now I see it as having much more potential than that. There are 5 factions competing to discover the secrets of Savinth-Yhi (an ancient city preserved from lost time) in addition to the hazards within. I see the situation playing out with rivalries exploding, delicate diplomatic situations and alliances coming into play, and coverts missions into sections of the city controlled by factions you can't afford to piss off.
Now to be fair to the critics, though the book certainly has this sort of potential, beyond basic stats, the adventure doesn't give you much fodder on this sort of play. Of course, a creative GM can do it themselves.
I've run books 1 and 2, albeit converted to Fantasy Craft for my existing high level group. At first, book 2 (Racing to Ruin) wasn't impressing me on first read, but it played better than it read.
The first part of Part one read like a city based dungeon crawl, but in play it actually turned into a 24/Die Hard sort of adventure as the players struggled to save their NPC ally from zealous freedom fighters.
The second part of part 1 turned out to be a lot more fun than I originally anticipated because
1) My players were really playing into all the old movie hermit cliches. By the time we were done, in my minds eye, Nkecki must have been played by Victor Wong (Big Trouble in Little China, the Golden Child)
2) There's a scene where the players use a drug to enter the spirit world, and the refusal to participate by teetotaler tribeswoman played by the newest player turned into an interesting roleplaying interlude.
3) The ape-men in the last part turned out to be a fun and engaging enemy.
I did cut out the salt mines out of Racing to Ruin, because I didn't feel like it was really warranted, and didn't fit the indiana jones sort of pacing I was looking for. In fact, I cut out lots of encounters in all of the books to get to the meat of the adventure and get to the adventure size I feel is appropriate. I've long felt adventure paths are overdone, and this is no exception.
I start running book 3 next week!
Quote from: Nightfall;466308Eh I consider more than just a prop, cute or otherwise. Basically because it helps to add a Gothic element to the game.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a prop, and that's exactly the reason I would use it. It's just not essential and some groups wouldn't benefit much from it.
Psion/Alan,
In regards to Serpent Skull, I'm glad to hear your group is enjoying it. Myself, I might run that, I might not. I do know that it will depend on the spacing and timing between campaign runs by myself and who ever else decides they want to run. Mostly I'm very interested in hearing how it goes. So thanks and I appreciate the input as always.
Regarding the Harrow deck, you're right that it's not for everyone. I guess for me, as a fan of dark fantasy, it works.
But as I stated previously, the soundtrack and syrinscape are going to be in heavy rotation.
Quote from: Nightfall;466253Uhm I'm planning on using it. It's a good way to help PCs and there are 6 cards from it that are useful in the course of the campaign.
I do like props, and it was pleasing to see that in Broken Moon (the werewolf one) there seem to be more prompts and suggestions involving it. It felt like more of an afterthought in the two previous volumes.
Quote from: Caesar Slaad;466375Book 3 [of Serpent's Skull] has been greeted cooly, which is a shame because I think it looks to be one of the moodier books.
I really enjoyed volume one, volume two didn't grab me (no judgment either way). and volume three has received so many bad and unenthusiastic reviews that I lost interest in the path. I could definitely see using volume one by itself.
So thanks for the recommendation on this one, as it could well be something I might overlook.
Quote from: FASERIP;467974I do like props, and it was pleasing to see that in Broken Moon (the werewolf one) there seem to be more prompts and suggestions involving it. It felt like more of an afterthought in the two previous volumes.
Well making it less of an afterthought might work better in one IF you have the PCs do readings or have them be involved in something that uses it (like Towers which is a card game.) I do know it might work to your advantage to do that in book one. In book two you might want consider having the NPC traveling group do readings as well.
I'm in the middle of campaign that mixes the key elements of Second Darkess into a kingmaker campaign that I had already expanded quite a bit, upping the involvement of the fae and trying to create a dark faerie tale atmosphere. The Kingmaker campaign features the most expansive alteration to a campaign's traditional flow in my opinion, one that I still don't know how I feel about. I liked the idea of the kingdom building rules on paper, but in play they feel sluggish and arbitrary. If the players are allowed to roleplay it all out it slogs and if I speed through the rules it feels forced.
The rules for building a kingdom isn't the thing that I think attracts people. It's the idea that you're actually doing more than going to random dungeons.