Quote from: Ravenswing;817412(shrugs)  If you want a religion-free setting, then have a religion-free setting.  No one's call but your own.

It's not so much about having a religion free setting, there will be religion. I just don't like a lot of the assumptions that the default cleric makes about the game world. I was more seeking advice on potential mechanical balance issues and thoughts from those who have replaced the cleric before.

In our game we just let MUs use the cleric spells too. It wasn't a religion free setting, if anything it had more religions. Among the Cleric class's many sins is that it always felt oddly secular to me.

Quote from: D-503;817449In our game we just let MUs use the cleric spells too. It wasn't a religion free setting, if anything it had more religions. Among the Cleric class's many sins is that it always felt oddly secular to me.

I can see how it could feel secular, there really isn't a lot in class function to actually tie it religion. My problem is that it makes the assumption of active, interventionist gods that behave similar to a Judeo-Christian model.

This setting I am working is rather religious, the gods are just silent for the most part, when they do interact it tends to be subtle and hard to define. Save for magic, I have always felt that separating divine and arcane magic is a bit arbitrary. Functionally they are both an act of manipulating the cosmos to project will into reality.

If, historically speaking you tried to make a distinction between divine and arcane magic to people who had a magical world view they would be at a loss to see the distinction. Magic in this setting is seen the same way, something tied to the way the gods themselves function and most likely it's secrets taught to men by the gods.

In re level/stat drain, and since the gods are silent, perhaps make recovery possible at specific sites like healing springs or mountains, or arcane rituals performed at particular locations, for example a Stonehenge/like structure where the ritual is to be performed at sunrise – something that's limited, but possible if you went out of your way to do it?

I am not sure a cleric-less D&D game needs to not have undead either. A magic-less game would probably need to sharply curb the undead that can only be hit by magical weapons, unless other countermeasures are subbed in.

That's a though for sure, it could even provide incentive for more adventure if said holy places or shrines were out of the way.