- Minis are higher profit margin
- They are the world leader in minis (or at least have been for the last 2 decades up to recently)
- Minis wargaming was a huge hobby in the late sixties and early seventies that got dramatically less popular for a while precisely because of RPGs

So, if they spend time on RPGs, probably they'll be a low-profit marginal product that isn't worth their time keeping track of...

...and, if not, it will be a product that may attract a lot of their existing players into a cheaper long-term hobby.

I'm a tabletop RPG guy 'til the day I die, so I personally would prefer fun, playable WFRP and 40K RPGs....

...but if I were running GW I wouldn't even have allowed the limited licenses out there, at this point. Maybe I would have let WFRP2 slip by during the period when it seemed like D&D3 had brought RPGs back, but I sure as hell wouldn't let anyone make a 40K game now.

Yep - GW taking notice of RPGs would achieve little but get them chewed up and spat out by the meatgrinder again.

Better for everyone to provide the RPGs some buffer from the corperate money generating engine that is The Shop. Cause they can't compete in that market. They'd melt.

Yknow?

BI only has to do well by the standards of a roleplaying company to survive, while a full Games Workshop, advertised in White Dwarf and sold in the shops would have to do well by Games Workshops standards, which it wouldn't. Not in a million years.

And its never gonna happen either, unless some kind of mad suicidal slasher buys GW and wants to cause it to self destruct, possibly for tax reasons.

So just forget it.

I see no harm in GW allowing the RPGs to exist. If someone's grown tired of playing minis games (or just isn't interested in minis period), they'll seek out alternatives whether GW wants them to or not. As long as GW doesn't actively promote the RPGs in their stores, they aren't shooting themselves in the foot.

If WFRP/40KRP were discontinued, the small segment of 'crossover gamers' who enjoy both wargames and RPGs would just play D&D or something else for their RPG fix. So GW might as well scoop up a few extra customers, and who knows, they might even score a few hobby converts with the miniatures ads.

Edit: I think it's also important to note that pen-and-paper RPG players are an ageing demographic, many of whom no longer have time to paint armies, but who have kids reaching the age where Warhammer/40K tabletop might be a fun little hobby. From a cohort POV, now is the perfect time for GW to target the middle-aged RPG gamers with families.

The stupid part for GW is the idea they have that mini gaming and RPG gaming are in competition for a limited market; that people will either play one hobby or the other.  This is nonsense; if there are two hobbies that vastly overlap, its those two.

What this means is that, rather than fearing that WFRP will somehow cause people to stop playing WH minis, they should figure it out that WFRP will cause more WH mini gamers to stop playing D&D and play WFRP instead.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThe stupid part for GW is the idea they have that mini gaming and RPG gaming are in competition for a limited market; that people will either play one hobby or the other.  This is nonsense; if there are two hobbies that vastly overlap, its those two.

What this means is that, rather than fearing that WFRP will somehow cause people to stop playing WH minis, they should figure it out that WFRP will cause more WH mini gamers to stop playing D&D and play WFRP instead.

RPGPundit

I do agree there's a crap ton of potential overlap between RPGs and minis games.

I think however that something of an exception can be made with GW's products, in that the mini games themselves are pretty much crap, yet hideously expensive.  

It's been my experience that a lot of the psychology surrounding GW's games and their players revolves around finding ways to short-circuit any potential realizations that basically they're paying out the ass for crap.

The incessant PR pushing of the idea that "it's a hobby, not a game", the reinforcement of the idea of price of one's army being a status symbol.  

I once compared the games to the geek equivalent of golf.  A game that's played more for appearances and status symbol than actual love of the game.

Let's not forget, they already gave it a try in the late 80s.  People loved the game...but it didn't make them any money.  In fact, I think they might have lost money on the deal (although I'm not sure If I'm actually remembering hearing that or not).

i doubt GW even care about rpg's enough to think them a threat. Why would they bother with somerthing that small in business terms?

I guess the question is whether Pundit's right (there's a synergy between the two hobbies) or whether my original guess was correct (they're in competition).

It's a money question. Clearly Pundit is right that the same people can enjoy the two hobbies. But, historically, I think a lot of people who once would have got into minis gaming in the seventies went instead into RPGs. (I'm an example. I was hypnotized as a kid by the minis tables at the game clubs, but I couldn't buy that stuff, and once I tried roleplaying I completely lost interest in minis. I know there were a lot of others like me back in the seventies.)

If that phenomenon is still there, then the result of people playing both might well be that they spend less on minis, all the way down to zero, if they're having enough fun roleplaying.

If not, then not. For me I have no way of knowing. But unless I could find a product synergy of some kind (like, I don't know, dungeon rules that let you have fights with big groups, and packaging monster stats with special minis or something) I don't think I'd go that way, based on the past experience of D&D eating a lot of wargaming.

Which didn't all have to do with people changing their hobby-time activities BTW. Costikyan has an old essay on this somewhere on his site that argues that TSR's buyout of SPI actually did active damage to the wargaming hobby: http://www.costik.com/spisins.html .

Quote from: CalithenaIf that phenomenon is still there, then the result of people playing both might well be that they spend less on minis, all the way down to zero, if they're having enough fun roleplaying.

Don't you think there's a large enough selection of RPGs available that minis gamers with a hankering to roleplay will do so, whether GW wants them to or not?

Quote from: grubmanLet's not forget, they already gave it a try in the late 80s.  People loved the game...but it didn't make them any money.  In fact, I think they might have lost money on the deal (although I'm not sure If I'm actually remembering hearing that or not).

That's a good reason for them farming it out. Its not a good reason for them covering it up and refusing to sell it in their stores.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThat's a good reason for them farming it out. Its not a good reason for them covering it up and refusing to sell it in their stores.

RPGPundit

Maybe they just don't give a shit?  I mean, a store that sells baseball cards and sports junk doesn't cary sports-clix.  All comic book stores don't cary Hero-clix, and many RPG/hobby stores don't carry Warhammer junk (or minis at all).  All those things seem like they would be related?  Maybe they just don't think it adds to thier Dynamic.

I fear grubman is right:

Most publishers don´t think as much about this stuff as we do.