Quote from: Black Vulmea;684951Paizo was well-established and highly regarded by 3e players long before 4e was announced.[...]

It also doesn't hurt, that by all accounts, they seem to publish stuff that many gamers like.

Oh, that's just crazy talk.

JG

Quote from: Jaeger;684925So what do you think the good people at Pazio will do with Pathfinder when D&D next comes out?

Nothing for at least 1 year.

QuoteDo you think they will be compelled to put out a new edition of pathfinder?

Probably not.

QuoteIf 5e is a big hit do you think they will make a comparable clone - or will they go with a re-imagined version of the 3e rules set?

There is no reality in which Paizo will chase 5E by making a clone of it. There might be some reality where they start producing 5E-compatible products, but even that is extremely unlikely.

QuoteWill they make a 2e Pathfinder if 5e is met with a lukewarm reception?

Probably at some point.

QuoteIt would be really interesting if they were working in secret on a new edition that came out the same year as D&D next.

Zero chance of that happening. First, there's no rational reason to go head-to-head with D&D (particularly when D&D has been building marketing momentum for two years). Second, Paizo is going to wait to see what the fallout of D&D Next is before they make any radical decisions with Pathfinder.

It should also be noted that D&D Next being a success won't have any meaningful impact on Paizo's business decisions. The only way D&D Next has an impact on Paizo's business decisions is if it translates into Paizo losing Pathfinder players.

At this point in time, my prediction is that the next edition of Pathfinder will be a revised edition and not a reboot edition (it will feature a handful of improvements while maintaining backwards compatibility; it won't completely revamp the system). We are also unlikely to see it before 2017.

Quote from: JonWake;684946Why is Pathfinder more successful than any of the other OGL hanger's on?

They trailblazed the subscription-based product model and built a reputation for being incredibly reliable in delivering high quality support.

The mistake you seem to be making is in assuming that the reasons they became successful have any significant relevance to their future popularity. It's like arguing that Apple should start phasing out iPhones in the next 2-3 years because it was home computers that made them successful in the first place.

Yes, if Paizo needed to repeat their success starting from scratch next year they would be much less likely to do so in the face of D&D Next. But that's not what Paizo is going to be doing.

Quote from: JonWake;684934Paizo shouldn't be patting themselves on the back too much over their success: they had very little to do with it. They poached the 3.0 artist and reprinted the rules with minimal changes. If 4e hadn't been such a clusterfuck Pathfinder would be making the same money that Castles and Crusades or Dark Descents makes-- not much.

Paizo's success was that they knew what people wanted, and reacted quickly by giving people what they wanted. Of course, if WotC hadn't fucked up with D&D4, Paizo wouldn't have had a chance.

QuoteKeep in mind that most people don't stick with Pathfinder out of any great love of the system. They're there because it's not 4e.

Quite the contrary. Most people stick with Pathfinder because it's the system they love, and that system is D&D3. Oldschoolers dislike D&D4 as much as Pathfinder fans, but they're not generally interested in Pathfinder.

Quote4e's existence and short lifespan are aberrations, not the new normal.

Agreed.

QuoteOnce the campaigns for 5e start getting released: Dark Sun, Eberron, Dragonlance and the like, Paizo will very much have to watch their back.

If D&D5 is a success (and I think it will be, however I don't know if it will be "more successful than D&D4" successful, or "as successful as D&D3" successful), Paizo will stop being the top head of the industry, but they will be in a very good situation if they keep giving people  what they want, that is, good adventures compatible with D&D3.

There seems to be a lot of hope that Paizo fails once 5E comes out.

I do not think that will happen.

Paizo's success is based upon not arbitrarily changing a product that people enjoy to the detriment of their fans or fellow producers through the Pathfinder OGL. They are not going to jeopardize that by having a knee-jerk reaction to WotC.

Quote from: JonWake;684934Paizo shouldn't be patting themselves on the back too much over their success: they had very little to do with it. They poached the 3.0 artist and reprinted the rules with minimal changes. If 4e hadn't been such a clusterfuck Pathfinder would be making the same money that Castles and Crusades or Dark Descents makes-- not much. Keep in mind that most people don't stick with Pathfinder out of any great love of the system. They're there because it's not 4e.  

4e's existence and short lifespan are aberrations, not the new normal.
Once the campaigns for 5e start getting released: Dark Sun, Eberron, Dragonlance and the like, Paizo will very much have to watch their back.

I see Pathfinder as the next evolutionary step of the OGL. Yes, it is 'not 4E', thank the gods. But it is also something that I *like*.

Quote from: jeff37923;685046There seems to be a lot of hope that Paizo fails once 5E comes out.

I do not think that will happen.

Paizo's success is based upon not arbitrarily changing a product that people enjoy to the detriment of their fans or fellow producers through the Pathfinder OGL. They are not going to jeopardize that by having a knee-jerk reaction to WotC.

I don't think I care one way or the other how Paizo does. They seem like nice people. But I also think people attribute way more foresight and ability to what was just a damn lucky break. Yes, they've done a masterful job of exploiting that-- if the Paizo leadership were a little less agile they'd be in the same boat as Green Ronin.

I also think people are making the mistake that their customer base is all that loyal.  Back in 2008, people would have said the same thing about D&D customers.  It's mad world and all bets are off.

I kinda think they've already responded by bringing out Mythic. I've seen an Adventure Path on the cards that mentions 'mythic levels'.

I guess it's the equivalent of the Epic Level Handbook, but i don't know, maybe it does more than that.

Whatever, it opens up another tier of play by the looks of things for PF players - which can be seen as a pre-emptive strike on 5e if you squint.

Quote from: JonWake;685026You're assuming that it won't.  Even when 4e was being published, even with it losing a significant chunk of players to Pathfinder, Wizards was still the 800 lb. gorilla, outselling Pathfinder for several years. It's silly to think that they won't be again.

What is this "several years" bullshit? Pathfinder was released in 2009. That's only four years, dude. Furthermore 4e only outsold Pathfinder briefly, and then was quickly overtaken by Pathfinder. The 3.x player base has always been larger than the 4.x player base, and Paizo capitalized on it. 4e had its 15 minutes of fame, and has since been slowly withering away (like a rotted corpse), while Pathfinder keeps happily chugging along. Shit, I predicted all this stuff in 2009. I should track down all the posts I made explaining this. Everything that I said would happen, is happening now. For fuck's sake. :pundit:

Quote from: Tetsubo;685080I see Pathfinder as the next evolutionary step of the OGL. Yes, it is 'not 4E', thank the gods. But it is also something that I *like*.

There's a lot of people who are really committed to the idea that all Pathfinder games (or 4e games, for that matter) are four-six people sitting around a table grimly contemplating all the fun they're not having.

Occum's Razor applies here; most people who play PF do so because they enjoy it, warts (and there's plenty of warts) and all.

Quote from: tanstaafl48;685099There's a lot of people who are really committed to the idea that all Pathfinder games (or 4e games, for that matter) are four-six people sitting around a table grimly contemplating all the fun they're not having.

Some people go so far as to claim people only play their preferred games because of Stockholm's Syndrome.

Some people should slap the stupid out of their own mouths and focus on their own fun instead of shitting themselves over other people having their own.

Quote from: hamstertamer;684938All Pathfinder has to do is come out with Pathfinder Basic. A light rules RPG that is completely compatible with Pathfinder core (Advanced) rules.  And the best part, they wouldn't need two years to make it.  Doing that, they will make sure to keep and add those that want a rules light system. As long as they keep it high quality, there is nothing to worry about.

This would be awesome.

Quote from: BigWeather;684974Other than that, production values are top-notch.  The art is great, the maps are decent (though honestly I prefer a more DCC old-school approach), the typography and layout is creative and, most importantly, readable.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that Paizo (and WotC) are the only RPG publishers that employ layout professionals and understand modern usability and design.

Quote from: Haffrung;685123I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that Paizo (and WotC) are the only RPG publishers that employ layout professionals and understand modern usability and design.

I would say that FFG and AEG both handle this pretty well also.

Quote from: tanstaafl48;685099There's a lot of people who are really committed to the idea that all Pathfinder games (or 4e games, for that matter) are four-six people sitting around a table grimly contemplating all the fun they're not having.

Occum's Razor applies here; most people who play PF do so because they enjoy it, warts (and there's plenty of warts) and all.

Quote from: Evansheer;685107Some people go so far as to claim people only play their preferred games because of Stockholm's Syndrome.

Some people should slap the stupid out of their own mouths and focus on their own fun instead of shitting themselves over other people having their own.

I think both versions of this idea derive from the central idea that there is some ideal RPG that everyone will play and anything you don't like or that doesn't attract every possible gamer is just a broken, half-formed attempt at reaching that ideal.

Pathfinder is successful because there are a significant number of people who like that kind of game, or like a significant portion of it and can't find a game that caters to their differences. It's never going to be *THE* game, nor is D&D going to be *THE* game ever again. That genie has left the bottle.

I don't think they need to change anything, not yet. The core rule book sells more and more every year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUaZ7ByBXPqZRg-Q-J-_0YEA&v=NvAuMKKyA5U#t=262