Quote from: Abraxus on November 01, 2021, 12:04:55 PM
They have Witch as a class are they going to do another attempt at virtue signalling and change the name to Wiccan. Or might as well go back to the 2E name for Demons and Devils while we are at it.

  "Wicca" was the original name for humanoid shamans with access to magic-user spells in BECMI. TSR later changed it to "Wokani." I'm not sure if it was to avoid offending Gardnerians or to avoid connection to them.

Only time will tell before the word Golem is going to be considered " problematic  and offensive "

In their quest to be extreme virtue signallers as possible they come off looking like not just Woke also as amateurish when doing so.

QuotePeople killing you because you gave them luke-warm French Fries at the McDonalds drive thru.

At this point Pope should just publicly anathemised use of "cleric" and "monk" by D&D and forbid Catholic playing until they change nomenclature.

Quote from: Wrath of God on November 01, 2021, 05:07:29 PM

At this point Pope should just publicly anathemised use of "cleric" and "monk" by D&D and forbid Catholic playing until they change nomenclature.

I mean, he'd probably get a bunch of Catholics to start playing D&D. The current pope is highly disliked.

Exactly Trad-Catholics while driving out, all this quasi-pentacostals. Just as planned.

Quote from: SHARK on November 01, 2021, 12:13:48 PM
Greetings!

That's right, my friend! I know, it totally drives me nuts! When did these weak, pathetic, whining people believe that *Them being offended or having their feelings hurt* became so fucking important, or meaningful in any way at all? I also get that, obviously, various elements in our society are catering to and coddling these sick, weak, delusional people--and our whole society is suffering enormously for it, in the process, too. I think it still remains true though, that much of the larger, real world, doesn't tolerate this bullshit, or give a fuck at all, and in fact, is distinctly hostile and violent towards the vast majority of people that believe this nonsense.

What happened to the ideas--the deep truths--that for you to ever succeed in reality as an adult, you simply must grow a thick skin? You have to accept that different people have different values, different expectations, different approaches to doing whatever, than you?

While some have obviously rebelled against the standard expectations, there used to also be a universal standard throughout society that dictated a variety of social norms, and enforced them, regardless of personal, individual opinions or feelings. There has always been a certain degree of tension--and flexibility--between the "Group Standards" and individual preferences or choices, but the essential foundations of behavior, of language, of conduct, of expectations, are there for a reason--so guarantee and enforce a social environment that is generally pleasant, law-abiding, and cooperative.

Fuck with that too much, insist on your fucking "Individualism" too much--and you are just going to get fucking curb-stomped and killed. *BLINK* Just like that. People being "offended" goes both ways--which can be an utter trainwreck and shitshow socially, if these peoplekeep pushing this bullshit.

Yeah, you are a boss at work. You tell an employee to do some task, or change the way they do things, because your the boss and you said so, that's why. Guess what? After lunch, or the next morning, the "offended" employee returns and just unloads on you and blows your fucking head off. Nice, huh?

Or how about you cutting someone off on the freeway, or otherwise "offending" them? Yeah, they pull up next to you, and blaze on you, motherfucker. How's that, bitch?

It's insane, my friend. And yet, we are seeing more and more of precisely these kinds of responses and actions, every day, every week. There simply must be a standard code, and everyone must abide and submit to it, or everyone goes fucking crazy and you can be fucking killed at a moment's notice, for "offending" someone. It's all well and good for all of these crying bitches that dramatically insist they have been "Offended!" Well, what happens when YOU or I, or one of these crying bitches OFFENDS someone else? Yeah, you see how all of this shit rapidly eats away and unravels our entire society?

People are fairly regularly getting shot and killed over arguing over a fucking Walmart parking space now. Or at Cost Co. This has happened again and again, recently. People killing you because you gave them luke-warm French Fries at the McDonalds drive thru. People being killed for offending someone while pumping gas at a gas station. This whole entitlement insanity is just going off the charts.

In gaming, we see this huge sense of entitlement insanity effecting everything too. It's absolutely ridiculous, and yet, the brain-fucked SJW's don't understand why the hobby is feeling more and more "divisive"? Well, I wonder why, jackass? When these SJW morons are offended by anything and everything, it gets to the point of where you have to ask yourself, "Do I need to include these kinds of people at my game table?" More questions arise, too. Why? Why do SJW's need to be tolerated or accepted in any way? They don't. Their arguments, their feelings, their screeching and shrieking like bitches can be simply ignored, but not just ignored--forcibly and passionately rejected. Their kind of emotional entitlement is--as part of the Marxist bullshit--corroding and poisoning our hobby at every level.

Pour some coffee, and light up a good pipe, friend. Or a cigar. I tend to enjoy both. Geesus, our society is going fucking nuts, right before our eyes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You are absolutely right. We are seeing a decline and a lot of it can be attributed to worship at the altar of individuality and the total intolerance to any "harm" whatsoever. Both of these stem from a rotten core of weakness. I'm not for total conformity, but a little conformity goes a long way to building character and maintaining a cohesive culture and nation. As for harm, these days people are harmed by mere words, often spoken with no ill intent. It is really insane. Light it up, my friend.

Quote from: Wrath of God on November 01, 2021, 05:07:29 PM

QuotePeople killing you because you gave them luke-warm French Fries at the McDonalds drive thru.

At this point Pope should just publicly anathemised use of "cleric" and "monk" by D&D and forbid Catholic playing until they change nomenclature.

But Abbot, Vicar and Prelate are ok (for now)...

,

Wait, phylactery is problematic, but "Inquisitor" is not?

Or "Barbarian", for that matter? Or edgelord "Drow"?

Quote from: Abraxus on November 01, 2021, 12:04:55 PM
Mistwell it's Paizo just plain virtue signalling and hoping to get brownie points from the more Woke elements of the fan base. It's irrelevant if most Jews are not offended by the word, simply that Paizo is going to protect them from being offended. Whether Jews want it or not.

They have Witch as a class are they going to do another attempt at virtue signalling and change the name to Wiccan. Or might as well go back to the 2E name for Demons and Devils while we are at it.

TSR found out the hard way that changing deamons and devils to Batri and tanri... didnt work.
It annoyed the existing fanbase that it was done to appease the insane.
And the insane just kept attacking because a demon is a demon and its STILL offensive and to some of the insane its now MORE offensive. Snd to the rest of the insane EVERYTHING is a demon and so you were NEVER going to appease them.

Failure was the only outcome.

Quote from: Novastar on November 02, 2021, 08:55:55 PM
Wait, phylactery is problematic, but "Inquisitor" is not?

Or "Barbarian", for that matter? Or edgelord "Drow"?

Indeed. How do you even have an inquisition in D&D's typical kitchen sink mishmash of fantasy tropes? The historical inquisition was deeply tied into the Christianization of Europe and the cosmic battle between God and Satan, but D&D completely lacks that historical context. If witchcraft is morally neutral a la neo-paganism, then why would inquisitors exist at all?

Barbarian is actually a slur used by the ancient Romans to demean foreigners (it's the equivalent of "ching chong"). Although nowadays it's been romanticized to the point where the word now conjures up images of buff romance novel heroes in sword & sorcery settings. The way D&D specifically uses it is a weird mishmash of sword & sorcery heroes with Norse berserkers.

Yeah, I figure that Paizo is gonna retcon Drow to no longer be dark-skinned at some point because their backstory sounds like the historical racist tale Curse of Ham.

Quote from: Omega on November 02, 2021, 09:09:15 PM

Quote from: Abraxus on November 01, 2021, 12:04:55 PM
Mistwell it's Paizo just plain virtue signalling and hoping to get brownie points from the more Woke elements of the fan base. It's irrelevant if most Jews are not offended by the word, simply that Paizo is going to protect them from being offended. Whether Jews want it or not.

They have Witch as a class are they going to do another attempt at virtue signalling and change the name to Wiccan. Or might as well go back to the 2E name for Demons and Devils while we are at it.

TSR found out the hard way that changing deamons and devils to Batri and tanri... didnt work.
It annoyed the existing fanbase that it was done to appease the insane.
And the insane just kept attacking because a demon is a demon and its STILL offensive and to some of the insane its now MORE offensive. Snd to the rest of the insane EVERYTHING is a demon and so you were NEVER going to appease them.

Failure was the only outcome.

Technically, Baatezu and Tanar'ri are still in the lore as the name of specific demonic "races" native to Baator and the Abyss, respectively. The lore is an overcomplicated mess at this point.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 03, 2021, 02:25:53 PMsounds like the historical racist tale Curse of Ham.

I recomend a blank book to ensure that nothing sounds like a historically racist anything else. Historical grievance addressal is one of the most agitating social movements of the past....ever.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on November 03, 2021, 02:41:08 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 03, 2021, 02:25:53 PMsounds like the historical racist tale Curse of Ham.

I recomend a blank book to ensure that nothing sounds like a historically racist anything else. Historical grievance addressal is one of the most agitating social movements of the past....ever.

Yeah you would support blank white pages with the total white washing of the game.

Typical.

Witch - hardly an offensive class name when you consider 5e's Warlock, which in the tradition is a Witch that has been cast out. This doesn't bother me, it's a game not a religious reference.

This name change reads more like "make it something easier to understand" vs. "Think of the jews!". I agree any focus on protecting jews is virtue signaling. Have we asked any Jewish people or religious leaders how they feel about the use of the word? I'm sure there are Jewish scholars who spend significant time around translations, and they have some expertise in words.

The outrage brigade are blindly swinging cancel-culture witch-hunts like mad barbarians. Everyone is angry and out for blood. There is no reasoning with the mob. Honestly, it's something that terrifies me when thinking about putting my own stuff out there. Critical thinking isn't supposed to = angry negative thinking that results in destruction.

Not sure that "making it easier to understand" is Pathfinder 2e's bag, baby.