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Paizo (Pathfinder/Starfinder) announced the ORC open license run by law firm

Started by weirdguy564, January 13, 2023, 10:26:24 AM

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weirdguy564

January 13, 2023, 10:26:24 AM Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 12:38:04 PM by weirdguy564
So this is a thing now.  Paizo is contracting a law firm to write their own OGL, but this one goes further. 

1.  It has the language in it like, "In Perpetuity," and, "Irrevocable." 

2.  It is the same law firm that wrote the D&D OGL.  Might even be the same lawyer. 

3.  The law firm will hold onto the license.  They don't have skin in the RPG game, so they are less likely to, "I've altered the deal.  Pray I don't alter it further."

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v?Paizo-Announces-SystemNeutral-Open-RPG-License
I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.

MerrillWeathermay

#1
January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
while I fully support the idea of a rock-solid OGL, Paizo is one of the primary reasons the RPG hobby is where it is today

Paizo and WOTC basically introduced the sanitized, hyper-woke, corporate, "Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.

Paizo whining about Hasbro's changes to the OGL is like Robespierre being led to the guillotine

3catcircus

#2
January 13, 2023, 11:06:40 AM Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 11:10:04 AM by 3catcircus
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
while I fully support the idea of a rock-solid OGL, Paizo is one of the primary reasons the RPG hobby is where it is today

Paizo and WOTC basically introduced the sanitized, hyper-woke, corporate, "Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.

Paizo whining about Hasbro's changes to the OGL is like Robespierre being led to the guillotine

There's a very fine line between "information wants to be free" and "if you play a cis-hetero shitlord human character, you're a racist!". Give Paizo enough rope to hang themselves with, if need be.

tenbones

#3
January 13, 2023, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
while I fully support the idea of a rock-solid OGL, Paizo is one of the primary reasons the RPG hobby is where it is today

Paizo and WOTC basically introduced the sanitized, hyper-woke, corporate, "Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.

Paizo whining about Hasbro's changes to the OGL is like Robespierre being led to the guillotine

This made me laugh. You're not wrong.

THE_Leopold

#4
January 13, 2023, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
while I fully support the idea of a rock-solid OGL, Paizo is one of the primary reasons the RPG hobby is where it is today

Paizo and WOTC basically introduced the sanitized, hyper-woke, corporate, "Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.

Paizo whining about Hasbro's changes to the OGL is like Robespierre being led to the guillotine


The OGL is being held by a Lawfirm and eventually the SRD and License will be in a trust similar to the Linux Kernel.

Paizo is paying to make this happen. 

Shit on Paizo all you want for being a woke, garbage tier, virtue signaling company but in this instance they are going about it The Right Way. No one publisher will ever hold this license to use against another.
NKL4Lyfe

tenbones

#5
January 13, 2023, 11:25:33 AM
Yeah, but then this shows everyone, while those assholes at Paizo called us all homophobes/nazi's/your-choice-of-ist - it shows that in their crusade for their woke bullshit, they fell back on protecting their dwindling precious gold. So much so, they even deigned to pay for us.

Maybe we're not the people they think we are? More likely maybe they always knew, but took their eyes off the ball in trying to strengthen the cult that was not there. Now they feel it's all hands on deck.

Chris24601

#6
January 13, 2023, 12:16:31 PM
My opinion on Paizo is if they wanna market woke crap to the woke and tell us "our game is not for you"... it's their dime. If they don't want certain sales, it's a free country.

What Paizo is not doing with ORC is trying to dictate how other people buy, sell and play in the hobby. That puts them lightyears ahead of Hasbro who sought to shut down anyone who wouldn't follow their party line.

Hell, if there's no requirement to use their specific SRD tied to it, I might even use ORC as my replacement for the OGL (depending on the final terms obviously) so people can make and sell supplemental material for my own system.

Effete

#7
January 13, 2023, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
while I fully support the idea of a rock-solid OGL, Paizo is one of the primary reasons the RPG hobby is where it is today

Paizo and WOTC basically introduced the sanitized, hyper-woke, corporate, "Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.

Paizo whining about Hasbro's changes to the OGL is like Robespierre being led to the guillotine

So... use the ORC to distribute based, shitlord gaming content just for the lulz. What's Paizo gonna do? They won't own the license, and with an IP law firm holding stewardship, I'm sure they KNOW nothing could be done.

Effete

#8
January 13, 2023, 12:41:01 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 13, 2023, 12:16:31 PM
My opinion on Paizo is if they wanna market woke crap to the woke and tell us "our game is not for you"... it's their dime. If they don't want certain sales, it's a free country.

What Paizo is not doing with ORC is trying to dictate how other people buy, sell and play in the hobby. That puts them lightyears ahead of Hasbro who sought to shut down anyone who wouldn't follow their party line.

Hell, if there's no requirement to use their specific SRD tied to it, I might even use ORC as my replacement for the OGL (depending on the final terms obviously) so people can make and sell supplemental material for my own system.

Yeah. It looks like the ORC is going to be what the OGL should have been: a truly unfettered license where ANY game publisher can share their content to promote compatibility and healthy competition. The OGL defaulted to being a DnD content machine because a) DnD had the market-share /popularity /built-in consumer base, and b) WotC owned the license, which generated confusion over how it could be used. Even during the conversation on this forum a couple people have conflated the OGL with the SRD, which are completely separate documents.

weirdguy564

#9
January 13, 2023, 12:43:49 PM
I'm not a Paizo gamer.  I don't think a overly long and crunchy version of D&D sounds any better than dealing directly with D&D, another game I'm not interested in.  Never have.

I go indie or even OSR.

Still, this move to make their own ORC license does impress me.  Not enough to buy their games, but I'm impressed.
I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.

I

#10
January 13, 2023, 12:47:06 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 13, 2023, 10:26:24 AM
"I've altered the deal.  Pray I don't alter it further."

You really need to add this as a meme to the thread we have for that purpose.  It's perfect.

GeekyBugle

#11
January 13, 2023, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: Effete on January 13, 2023, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
while I fully support the idea of a rock-solid OGL, Paizo is one of the primary reasons the RPG hobby is where it is today

Paizo and WOTC basically introduced the sanitized, hyper-woke, corporate, "Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.

Paizo whining about Hasbro's changes to the OGL is like Robespierre being led to the guillotine

So... use the ORC to distribute based, shitlord gaming content just for the lulz. What's Paizo gonna do? They won't own the license, and with an IP law firm holding stewardship, I'm sure they KNOW nothing could be done.

AFTER you read the damn thing and you're 1000% sure it doesn't "try to create an safe and inclusive community". Else go CC By SA.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Ruprecht

#12
January 13, 2023, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 13, 2023, 10:56:37 AM
"Disney D&D" model to the public. While that brought in more people to the hobby, it also turned it into an activist-run, corporate / globalist sphere.
I'd heard it was Critical Role and Stranger Things that brought people in.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

zer0th

#13
January 13, 2023, 02:39:33 PM Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 02:41:07 PM by zer0th
Even if ORC 1.0 doesn't include a woke clause, the idea is to create a non-profit to own the license, not to leave it with the law firm. If the open-source software world is of any example, these non-profit are easily captured by activists. And that would be specially easily if the key people of this non-profit come from the companies already onboard the ORC train, all of them at least on the yellow list of that other thread. So, even if the jurisprudence says the ORC 1.0 is ironclad now, why would one trust his work to a license owned by an organization full of people who thinks you are deplorable?

S'mon

#14
January 13, 2023, 02:45:50 PM Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 02:48:12 PM by S'mon
Quote from: zer0th on January 13, 2023, 02:39:33 PM
Even if ORC 1.0 doesn't include a woke clause, the idea is to create a non-profit to own the license, not to leave it with the law firm. If the open-source software world is of any example, these non-profit are easily captured by activists. And that would be specially easily if the key people of this non-profit come from the companies already onboard the ORC train, all of them at least on the yellow list of that other thread. So, even if the jurisprudence says the ORC 1.0 is ironclad now, why would one trust his work to a license owned by an organization full of people who thinks you are deplorable?

I would only trust the wording of the licence.

Although admittedly I do think that being threatened/sued by a bunch of woke activists at a non-profit seems immensely less threatening than being sued by Hasbro. Those guys tweet a good game but they tend to be extremely lazy when it comes to doing the work, and putting a lawsuit together takes effort.

But anyway it would be the company whose IP I was using who'd presumably want to sue, with some reeing from the nonprofit. Any way you look at it, nothing like Hasbro both holding the IP and claiming to be able to make the licence mean whatever they want.
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